Super Smash Bros. Ultimate News and Discussion: A Simple and Clean Finish

[Jotari]

14 minutes ago, Armagon said:

The difference between Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy is that Fire Emblem isn't 3rd Party, so they are able to get away with it.

 

Ok, so it seems Square Enix wasn't as stubborn as i thought. They allowed a lot of creative freedom when developing Cloud so that's good at least. Though stuff like the music and Cloud not having an English VA might still have to do with rights issues.

Get away with what? Putting in less content for a game they have the intelletcual property of? If anything that just reinforces my point that there's no correlation.

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Get away with what? Putting in less content for a game they have the intelletcual property of? If anything that just reinforces my point that there's no correlation.

My point was that Fire Emblem (and other 1st and 2nd Parties) doesn't have the whole rights hurdle they have to jump to add more things into Smash, unlike Final Fantasy (or any other 3rd Party).

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

My point was that Fire Emblem (and other 1st and 2nd Parties) doesn't have the whole rights hurdle they have to jump to add more things into Smash, unlike Final Fantasy (or any other 3rd Party).

Yes, so the fact that Fire Emblem had practically no representation in Melee outside of the playable characters is even more egerious, yet they returned anyway. Meaning how much or how little a series is represented has no effect on it's likelihood to return. Snake probably had even more representation than Sonic in Brawl due to all the codec conversations and Shadow Moses easter eggs, yet Snake is the one that got cut. Cloud obviously has less chance to return than any first party character, but saying he has less chance compared to the other third party characters based on how much stuff he brought with him to the game is unsubstantiated. It's not like Bayonetta or Ryu had a tonne of trophies either. Cloud lacking them probably came down to them having to rework entire models more than anything else (as that interview points out, they couldn't just port stuff from other games and make it look natural).

[Lightchao42]

19 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Ok, so it seems Square Enix wasn't as stubborn as i thought. They allowed a lot of creative freedom when developing Cloud so that's good at least. Though stuff like the music and Cloud not having an English VA might still have to do with rights issues.

Cloud not speaking English isn't really SE's fault, nor is it in Nintendo's. Basically Steve Burton is a union-only voice actor and Smash Bros. is non-union. According to contract Burton is the only person who can voice Cloud in English (so they can't have anyone else voice Cloud instead) and he must be credited (so he couldn't go uncredited like Antony Del Rio and Hynden Walsh did). Technically SE did make the contract, but for Smash it's not something they had much control over. For this reason I think Cloud will continue to speak Japanese if he comes back.

...Speaking of voices, I hope Bowser, DK, and Diddy get their game-accurate voices this time.

[King Marth 64]

2 hours ago, Lightchao42 said:

Cloud not speaking English isn't really SE's fault, nor is it in Nintendo's. Basically Steve Burton is a union-only voice actor and Smash Bros. is non-union. According to contract Burton is the only person who can voice Cloud in English (so they can't have anyone else voice Cloud instead) and he must be credited (so he couldn't go uncredited like Antony Del Rio and Hynden Walsh did). Technically SE did make the contract, but for Smash it's not something they had much control over. For this reason I think Cloud will continue to speak Japanese if he comes back.

...Speaking of voices, I hope Bowser, DK, and Diddy get their game-accurate voices this time.

Do you have a source shows Steve Burton is Union-only actor and Super Smash Bros. is non-union? I don't think Square Enix doesn't just give the rights to Sakurai to put Cloud and not contacting Steve Burton as Union-only due to Brawl did get David Hayate to voice Solid Snake and Jason Grittith voice Sonic and For Nintendo 3DS / Wii U did get Roger Craig Smith to voice Sonic (due to Sega used Studiopolis actors for the recent games), Kyle Herbert to voice Ryu, and Hellena Taylor to voice Bayonetta. I'm pretty sure they could probably didn't have enough time to add more stuff or Square Enix just picking some of the content to use for the Cloud DLC and tell Sakurai use this and this.

Edited April 4, 2018 by King Marth 64

[Jedi]

2 hours ago, King Marth 64 said:

Do you have a source shows Steve Burton is Union-only actor and Super Smash Bros. is non-union? I don't think Square Enix doesn't just give the rights to Sakurai to put Cloud and not contacting Steve Burton as Union-only due to Brawl did get David Hayate to voice Solid Snake and Jason Grittith voice Sonic and For Nintendo 3DS / Wii U did get Roger Craig Smith to voice Sonic (due to Sega used Studiopolis actors for the recent games), Kyle Herbert to voice Ryu, and Hellena Taylor to voice Bayonetta. I'm pretty sure they could probably didn't have enough time to add more stuff or Square Enix just picking some of the content to use for the Cloud DLC and tell Sakurai use this and this.

Steve Burton wasn't even contacted, he tweeted about it.

[Cornguy]

Sifted through a little bit of this topic, so if I repeat some stuff, I'm sorry I missed it.

Anybody else kinda hoping BotW Link is his own character, separate from Link? Wild Link, with remote bombs, Rivali's gale for up-b, maybe an alt weapon for a neutral-b, spear, greatsword, whatever. Should probably still have a bow. Maybe a way to use the bow with Rivali's gale? I know, three Links and all. But ever since Melee they seem to be in some sort of refusal to give us an actual new character for the Zelda side. Ganondorf, Link, Zelda, alt Zelda/Sheik, and alt Link. Not to mention, Stasis would be an awesome Final Smash. Not a global FS, but one you can still catch multiple characters if they're close enough to each other.

Also hoping we'll get some assist trophy upgrades. There's definitely a few assist trophy characters that could use the upgrade to playable status, but the three I really want are Lyn(shocker), Isaac and Waluigi. Takamaru is also one I'd like to see. We didn't really get any new characters from the retro-era. Meaning characters without long-running series and/or a reboot.

As far as being a port or not, I'm expecting it to have enough new features/content to be considered a new game, but still use a lot, if not most of the assets from Smash 4. So not exactly a port, but still kind of in the grey area for new game status. Probably a little more changes than say, the latest version of a fighting game. 

Mechanics... I'm a huge Melee nerd, I still play Melee, do the tournament thing every rare once in a while, so of course I want increased hitstun, decreased ledge-snap, and that sort of thing. Smash 4 was at least going in the right direction from Brawl as far as hitstun goes, but ledge-snap just kind of reduces off-stage play a bit too much for my liking. While I think wavedashing is super fun, I don't see too much hope of it returning, but one thing I would take in it's place, would be a way to stop running outside of jump-cancelling, so we can do a move other than a dash attack, side-b, or up move out of a dash. So much of movement in Smash 4 is in the air, because you have way more options than on the ground, so I just think they need to work on a way to make the ground game stronger.

Now, another unlikely thing that I personally would love, would be a dipswitch menu, similar to console ports of arcade fighters. Being able to select mechanics from every game in the series, or something similar. I'd love to play with N64 hitstun, Melee movement and Smash 4 knockback/general mechanics.

On the subject of 3rd parties, I'd expect most of them to be safe, if not all of them. The most questionable of the bunch is of course Cloud, followed by the Capcom boys. But I'm pretty sure the 3rd party companies get royalties, so they'll probably both want their characters to stick around, despite the obviously larger presence they have on competitors' consoles. As far as new 3rd parties go, personally I'd weep if they simultaneously announced Soul Calibur VI for the Switch, alongside a SC character for Smash, and a Nintendo character for SC. But that's quite the longshot.

And as far as Snake is concerned, I'm pretty sure he was absent because of Sakurai being buddies with Kojima. Konami did Kojima dirty, so Sakurai's probably hesitant to do business with Konami, out of respect for his friend. So I don't think that'll change, which is somewhat unfortunate, since Snake was a pretty cool character. But it is what it is.

Sorry for the mountain of text, hope I didn't regurgitate too much of what's already been said.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

6 hours ago, Cornguy said:

Anybody else kinda hoping BotW Link is his own character, separate from Link? Wild Link, with remote bombs, Rivali's gale for up-b, maybe an alt weapon for a neutral-b, spear, greatsword, whatever. Should probably still have a bow. Maybe a way to use the bow with Rivali's gale? I know, three Links and all. But ever since Melee they seem to be in some sort of refusal to give us an actual new character for the Zelda side. Ganondorf, Link, Zelda, alt Zelda/Sheik, and alt Link. Not to mention, Stasis would be an awesome Final Smash. Not a global FS, but one you can still catch multiple characters if they're close enough to each other.

I think Zelda deserves more newcomers and character reworks than any other franchise in Smash 5, but three Links would give me a headache. There has never been a game where the two links have been differentiated enough to my liking. I would keep Toon Link as the "classic" iteration of Link while taller, botw Link gets as many new moves as possible. The champion weapons could be subbed in for sword swings and kicks. Like a forward Smash that is the charge up move for spears, urbosa's shield for reflecting/parrying attacks. Maybe dump the usual specials into his custom special options. Just in case anybody misses the old gale boomerang or spin attack. For the glider, I was thinking they could institute a stamina-based glider, similar to the fuel based Up B for ROB that needs to be recharged by landing. You can re-engage the glider multiple times without entering special fall until your stamina is depleted by holding the jump button like Peach's float. Or Up B, but I wonder whether it would be overpowered if you could save revali's gale and only activate it once per air time with a long Up B button press. The recovery and landing mixups could be very engaging for both players. And a good substitute for the loss of hookshot recovery if they decide this version of Link shouldn't have that.

As for Zelda newcomers, I hear many people ask for Windwaker or Warriors version of Ganondorf, but my ideal Ganon rework is going back to classic pig Ganon with a trident. Setting the stage on fire, teleporting, telekinetically spinning the trident around him, sounds like a fun heavy weight character. Plus none of the zelda fighters seem to reference 2D zelda games. Next up is Lana or Linkle. Since the Nintendo Warriors crossover games come from a post- Smash 4 era where Nintendo is cool with other companies playing with their IP. That deserves a representative, and these two aren't more humans with swords. My last pick is Midna, with the conceit that she can summon ghostly wolves at will for dashing or to lunge in front of her. I think a competent moveset is easier to build for her than other impish characters like Skull Kid or Tingle. As for the Champions, if I had to pick one it would be Daruk since playing as a goron in smash has always sounded fun and I can't think of suitable moves for link using Daruk's weapon or power.

[King Marth 64]

19 hours ago, Jedi said:

Steve Burton wasn't even contacted, he tweeted about it.

Umm.... I already did said about Steve Burton wasn't been contacted Nintendo about voicing Cloud in Super Smash Bros. for Nintendo 3DS / Wii U. And I did saw the tweet where he mentioned it as well.

Edited April 5, 2018 by King Marth 64

[Jave]

Didn't Steve Burton also say that he would have voiced Cloud in Smash had he been asked? I do recall something like that.

[Florete]

9 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

As for Zelda newcomers, I hear many people ask for Windwaker or Warriors version of Ganondorf, but my ideal Ganon rework is going back to classic pig Ganon with a trident.

Warriors Ganondorf with his trident? I feel like pig Ganon would run into the Ridley issue, and he works thematically as Ganondorf's final smash.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm trying to think of cool item ideas for the new game. Hedlok feels like a no brainer from ARMS. It's an equippable robot monster head that sprouts four more arms that punch with you. Feels like the right kind of obnoxious tool that does the fighting for you in Smash. But taking any substantial knockback forces you to drop the head for somebody else to pick up.

For Xenoblade they could have core crystals. Each one spawns a generic Blade that attacks and disappears like a pokeball. They can have Rare Blades show up as well, any of them that they feel like animating. I just really like the implication that all of the Smash Roster are potential Drivers. Sounds like a good fanart opportunity.

Splatoon items are difficult to justify since weapons in those games are designed with the dual purpose of dealing damage and spreading ink. And since I expect the Inkling characters to have some mechanics that require spreading ink, said items could unfairly benefit that one playable character. I hope this doesn't prove a complication because any one of the game's weapon types could make for a cool attack. Especially the Tenta Missiles.

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

For Xenoblade they could have core crystals. Each one spawns a generic Blade that attacks and disappears like a pokeball. They can have Rare Blades show up as well, any of them that they feel like animating. I just really like the implication that all of the Smash Roster are potential Drivers. Sounds like a good fanart opportunity.

I was thinking the same, except it's just the Rare Blades that show up. There's only 28 of them (not counting the New Game+ or DLC Blades) which is close to the number of Assists and Pokeball Pokemon there are.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

I was thinking the same, except it's just the Rare Blades that show up. There's only 28 of them (not counting the New Game+ or DLC Blades) which is close to the number of Assists and Pokeball Pokemon there are.

The difficulties I could see in Rare Blades are that there might be rights issues since many are drawn by guests artists. Plus they are generally much more elaborate creatures that require complex animations that are unique on a case by case basis. The generic blades by comparison are just humans and dogs. Not hard to imagine what that looks like moving, attacking, or falling during a stage transition.

[Armagon]

1 hour ago, Glennstavos said:

The difficulties I could see in Rare Blades are that there might be rights issues since many are drawn by guests artists. Plus they are generally much more elaborate creatures that require complex animations that are unique on a case by case basis. The generic blades by comparison are just humans and dogs. Not hard to imagine what that looks like moving, attacking, or falling during a stage transition.

The thing is, it's not like every Rare Blade has a unique weapon. The weapons that exist for them are Chrome Katanas, Megalances, Greataxes, Shield Hammers, Ether Cannons, Bitballs and Knuckle Claws. All they have to do to make them work in Smash is give them a general animation, and then a variation of said animation to fit the Blade. Besides, there were 37 Assists and 40 Pokeball Pokemon in Smash 4. Making animations for 28 different characters that'll only be on screen for like, 5 seconds shouldn't be too much of a problem.

As for rights, the only one actually affected by that is KOS-MOS, but Namco and Nintendo are really close, so it shouldn't be a problem. The rest, yes they were drawn by guests artists but Monolith Soft still owns the rights to the Rare Blades themselves. 

[Jedi]

I honestly don't see the Blades cameos happening, but maybe it can be a surprise.

I don't think Xenoblade is quite on the same level as Pokémon in terms of that marketability for such an item. (In fact I know so).

Edited April 9, 2018 by Jedi

[Armagon]

23 minutes ago, Jedi said:

I honestly don't see the Blades cameos happening, but maybe it can be a surprise.

I don't think Xenoblade is quite on the same level as Pokémon in terms of that marketability for such an item. (In fact I know so).

Oh i agree, i doubt it'll actually happen, as much as i want it to. Even with Nintendo pushing for Xenoblade to be one of their bigger franchises (Xenoblade 2 received actual marketing compared to the previous Xenoblade games or even Xeno in general which is why it's the best selling game in the series), it's still relatively niche at the moment.

If the Miis are back, they could make one (or more) of the Blades costumes for the Miis. But then that begs the question, why make Mii costumes based off the Rare Blades when you could just make them based off the main characters except for Dromarch and Tora because how do you make costumes for those two?

[Jedi]

I'm beginning to think at this rate we might not get anything before E3, and hopefully FE16 gets some news before then unless Nintendo wants to overshadow themselves.

[NoirCore]

6 hours ago, Jedi said:

I'm beginning to think at this rate we might not get anything before E3, and hopefully FE16 gets some news before then unless Nintendo wants to overshadow themselves.

You sure? I'd imagine it'd be too overwhelming to have enough Smash news in one segment (even if it's E3) to justify an E3 tournament like the one for Sm4sh, unless they pull a BOTW again, and that would put FE16 into question. I'd imagine a Smash direct is coming up within the next month.

[Florete]

14 hours ago, Jedi said:

I'm beginning to think at this rate we might not get anything before E3, and hopefully FE16 gets some news before then unless Nintendo wants to overshadow themselves.

I think people are worrying about this too much. Should they just not do anything except Smash so nothing gets "overshadowed?" Other games have shared E3 with Smash and survived.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Pre E3 Directs are standard. Some even labeled as such. E3 press conferences are never long enough to show off everything a major developer/publisher such as Nintendo needs to show. Even to a point where entire game announcements bleed into the next day's Treehouse stream, such as Metroid Samus Returns. I'm not particularly confident that FE Switch, Pokemon, or whatever will be unveiled before E3, but I feel confident in guessing Smash will get coverage in such a format. A tournament full of blind players wouldn't be very engaging as everybody guesses in real time what items and moves do. Even more unreasonable would be the strain on commentators for the matches who have seen none of this nonsense before.

And Smash isn't the type of game to have a short announcement to release cycle. Smash 4 had us enthralled for years before it finally released, and 5 could have done the same. The only way to get out a sufficient amount of information may very well be to do a game focused Direct so that more time is given to other games at E3. You need time to explain just what the heck Smash is in terms of gameplay and you can save the hype newcomer character reveals or a new mode for E3. As well as the Global Test Smash demo that shadow drops same day lol

Edited April 21, 2018 by Glennstavos

[NoirCore]

14 hours ago, Glennstavos said:

Pre E3 Directs are standard. Some even labeled as such. E3 press conferences are never long enough to show off everything a major developer/publisher such as Nintendo needs to show. Even to a point where entire game announcements bleed into the next day's Treehouse stream, such as Metroid Samus Returns. I'm not particularly confident that FE Switch, Pokemon, or whatever will be unveiled before E3, but I feel confident in guessing Smash will get coverage in such a format. A tournament full of blind players wouldn't be very engaging as everybody guesses in real time what items and moves do. Even more unreasonable would be the strain on commentators for the matches who have seen none of this nonsense before.

And Smash isn't the type of game to have a short announcement to release cycle. Smash 4 had us enthralled for years before it finally released, and 5 could have done the same. The only way to get out a sufficient amount of information may very well be to do a game focused Direct so that more time is given to other games at E3. You need time to explain just what the heck Smash is in terms of gameplay and you can save the hype newcomer character reveals or a new mode for E3. As well as the Global Test Smash demo that shadow drops same day lol

I mean, I assume the players in such a situation would be notified and then supplied the info after agreeing to an embargo that requires them to keep silent about it, but after SMO got leaked, it's possible that's not the case since Nintendo would likely up security over one of their biggest games and would supply Smash news before E3 in that case.

[Jedi]

On 4/20/2018 at 10:35 AM, NoirCore said:

You sure? I'd imagine it'd be too overwhelming to have enough Smash news in one segment (even if it's E3) to justify an E3 tournament like the one for Sm4sh, unless they pull a BOTW again, and that would put FE16 into question. I'd imagine a Smash direct is coming up within the next month.

I'm just spectulating, it's been quiet on both fronts since their initial announcements.

20 hours ago, Florete said:

I think people are worrying about this too much. Should they just not do anything except Smash so nothing gets "overshadowed?" Other games have shared E3 with Smash and survived.

I'm not particularly confident in FE sharing any slots with a more popular Nintendo franchise, I know FEs been growing but I feel like revealing anything alongside Smash unless it correlated (new protagonist being in the game) a lot of people would miss the news.

I could be wrong and I'd fully admit it if I am.

[Florete]

4 hours ago, Jedi said:

I'm not particularly confident in FE sharing any slots with a more popular Nintendo franchise, I know FEs been growing but I feel like revealing anything alongside Smash unless it correlated (new protagonist being in the game) a lot of people would miss the news.

I could be wrong and I'd fully admit it if I am.

Also think of it this way: If Nintendo is saving FE for E3, they have confidence in it. That means a lot.

[Jedi]

42 minutes ago, Florete said:

Also think of it this way: If Nintendo is saving FE for E3, they have confidence in it. That means a lot.

I guess I'm viewing it potentially a bit too pessimistically.