FE Heroes x Dragalia Lost Colab Coming

[Lewyn]

The problem has been mentioned many times.  If we are getting one new hero banner a month on average, that means only 12 banners a year.  So losing one of those for a collab is actually a huge deal.  Wasn't this binding blade banner great?  Yeah it was the first one in the history of the game, Thracia has had only one, and other entries not Fates or Awakening few.  Never mind that new hero banners also are the ones that come with new main story chapters and advance it, getting a chapter a month is already super slow.

 

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

Let's say you could grind some new mode fro 10 orbs a day, that would be 300 orbs a month if done daily essentially letting players who do this have 2x of the most important resource in the game.

Why on earth would you use the premium currency as your example resource to make grindable? (Don't answer the question; I know exactly why you did.) Orbs are literally the resource that makes the least sense to ever make grindable.

I'm specifically talking about Sacred Coins, Divine Dew, Heroic Grails, and Dragonflowers as resources that are time-gated and should be made grindable in some way (the latter two should probably hold off for a few months until they are not quite as novel of resources). These are resources that do not give players significant gameplay advantages if they can be obtained in infinite quantities through farming.

[alatartheblue42]

15 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Oh. That must have taken quite some time to achieve. 

Well, I have been playing since launch. And I both tend to have solid gacha luck and I spent a bit of money strategically.

15 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

A little scrawny, but Nergal looks absolutely enthralled.

Who wouldn't be?

10 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

As one of the biggest (and probably only) advocate for Kishuna, it hurts to see that the one time his existence is remembered is to say that he shouldn't be added.

I'd be excited to see how they implement him as a unit, but he's not exactly a significant character. He really only exists in the plot to be Renault's motivation; outside of that, he is designed just as a challenging enemy.

4 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

While I kinda wish I could see things like this, I simply can't be paid enough money to give the slightest shit about Dolph, Macellan, and all of Archanea's other worthless filler like Kris. Relying on characters like them would be what truly reeks of desperation.

I totally agree on most everything except the being paid enough. If I got enough cash, I could probably be convinced to care a little about filler characters.

2 hours ago, Lewyn said:

I also just don't understand why people want to grind so much, new fun modes?  Yeah sure, but why waste time with repetitive tasks?  If one hasn't played all the games in the FE series, play those.

At that point, why play FEH at all? Why not just play the FE games instead?

I want something that gives me motivation to play. Right now, there are 3 motivations available. 1) Playing standard modes to get Orbs and to clear them (overall, a task that anyone who's played since launch could easily have accomplished). 2) Play events like TT and Forging Bonds, which only come so often and are generally pretty repetitive. And again, the reward is basically just "Here's some orbs, go summon from a bloated pool". Oh, and you can only play them so many times per day (were it not for my Noble Phantasm: Unlimited Arena Crest Works) 3) Play competitive modes (Arena, Aether Raids, Grand Conquest, etc). The first and second are tiresome enough, especially when you're at the high ranks. The event competitions are at least different, but TT is hardly challenging and not exactly rewarding, and GC is as much up to RNG as anything else. If you're placed on a bad team for yourself in GC, then you're doomed to lose overall. Last GC, every time I looked, my team was down to 7 or 5 nodes only, and despite the best efforts of those of us on at the time, we had trouble even protecting those. A single player amounts to little there, and the inability to have a an actual impact makes it disheartening to play.

 

1 hour ago, Midnox said:

That’s it, assuming they aren’t a case of “people from another world” stuff, but instead the same characters, but adapted on the lore of the games they are guests in

Well, isn't that how most collabs between series' work? Its not as if Alberia is going to suddenly be Askr's next door neighbor. Plus, the entire concept of FEH is opening doors to other realms, and the Outrealms are a thing in the main series too.

32 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

If we are getting one new hero banner a month on average, that means only 12 banners a year.  So losing one of those for a collab is actually a huge deal.

Well yes, but actually no. Unless IS is more idiotic than I give them credit for (which would be difficult), they won't be explicitly integrating collab units into the main story. "New Hero" banners are always story related; Leg/Mythic Heroes and Seasonal banners are separate. A collab would (almost certainly) never be a New Hero banner, since they would then be in the story, and making it a Leg/Mythic banner would just backfire on them because they can't market more than one character then.

The only way a collab banner would deprive us of a "New Hero" banner is if they decided to do the collab instead of a new unit banner. But if they decide to do that, then they could just as easily trade out a New Hero banner for seasonal banner 436, and it'd be the exact same end result of us losing out on new heroes. There is no reason to think that any new hero banner that gets "replaced" with a collab banner would exist without that collab.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Why on earth would you use the premium currency as your example resource to make grindable? (Don't answer the question; I know exactly why you did.) Orbs are literally the resource that makes the least sense to ever make grindable.

I'm specifically talking about Sacred Coins, Divine Dew, Heroic Grails, and Dragonflowers as resources that are time-gated and should be made grindable in some way (the latter two should probably hold off for a few months until they are not quite as novel of resources). These are resources that do not give players significant gameplay advantages if they can be obtained in infinite quantities through farming.

Sacred coins allow us to upgrade seals, divine dew is a rare resource that allows us to refine weapons, heroic grails allow people to +10 free units as well as get valuable fodder, dragon flowers increase stats.  They are all valuable, and not everyone loves to farm.  A lot of people play Heroes specifically cause they hate farming which is prevalent in other gacha games.  You didn't answer my other question.  You have mentioned several times you haven't played Fates and maybe other games, why not use your spare time to do that instead of monotonous grinding?  Please as someone who plays Fate order also, tell me what is the appeal of brainless repetitive tasks?

33 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

 

At that point, why play FEH at all? Why not just play the FE games instead?

I want something that gives me motivation to play. Right now, there are 3 motivations available. 1) Playing standard modes to get Orbs and to clear them (overall, a task that anyone who's played since launch could easily have accomplished). 2) Play events like TT and Forging Bonds, which only come so often and are generally pretty repetitive. And again, the reward is basically just "Here's some orbs, go summon from a bloated pool". Oh, and you can only play them so many times per day (were it not for my Noble Phantasm: Unlimited Arena Crest Works) 3) Play competitive modes (Arena, Aether Raids, Grand Conquest, etc). The first and second are tiresome enough, especially when you're at the high ranks. The event competitions are at least different, but TT is hardly challenging and not exactly rewarding, and GC is as much up to RNG as anything else. If you're placed on a bad team for yourself in GC, then you're doomed to lose overall. Last GC, every time I looked, my team was down to 7 or 5 nodes only, and despite the best efforts of those of us on at the time, we had trouble even protecting those. A single player amounts to little there, and the inability to have a an actual impact makes it disheartening to play.

 

 

Well yes, but actually no. Unless IS is more idiotic than I give them credit for (which would be difficult), they won't be explicitly integrating collab units into the main story. "New Hero" banners are always story related; Leg/Mythic Heroes and Seasonal banners are separate. A collab would (almost certainly) never be a New Hero banner, since they would then be in the story, and making it a Leg/Mythic banner would just backfire on them because they can't market more than one character then.

The only way a collab banner would deprive us of a "New Hero" banner is if they decided to do the collab instead of a new unit banner. But if they decide to do that, then they could just as easily trade out a New Hero banner for seasonal banner 436, and it'd be the exact same end result of us losing out on new heroes. There is no reason to think that any new hero banner that gets "replaced" with a collab banner would exist without that collab.

I've played the other FE games and they are amazing.  You can grind Hero merit, have you gotten 5000HM with every unit in  your barracks?  Have you built every unit in your barracks and done their heroic ordeal?  Have you done every squad assault challenge, every chain challenge (beginner, hard, lunatic)?  Have you finished all the grandmaster challenges?  Feathers, sacred coins, orbs....those all make an actual impact.

They would never trade out a seasonal banner, they already added Hot springs as another seasonal to look forward to on a yearly basis.  If they cut a banner to make room for collaboration I can almost guarantee it would be new hero banner not seasonal.  So there is plenty of reason to be worried about collabs.  

[Hilda]

3 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Sacred coins allow us to upgrade seals, divine dew is a rare resource that allows us to refine weapons, heroic grails allow people to +10 free units as well as get valuable fodder, dragon flowers increase stats.  They are all valuable, and not everyone loves to farm.  A lot of people play Heroes specifically cause they hate farming which is prevalent in other gacha games.  You didn't answer my other question.  You have mentioned several times you haven't played Fates and maybe other games, why not use your spare time to do that instead of monotonous grinding?  Please as someone who plays Fate order also, tell me what is the appeal of brainless repetitive tasks?

I've played the other FE games and they are amazing.  You can grind Hero merit, have you gotten 5000HM with every unit in  your barracks?  Have you built every unit in your barracks and done their heroic ordeal?  Have you done every squad assault challenge, every chain challenge (beginner, hard, lunatic)?  Have you finished all the grandmaster challenges?  Feathers, sacred coins, orbs....those all make an actual impact.

They would never trade out a seasonal banner, they already added Hot springs as another seasonal to look forward to on a yearly basis.  If they cut a banner to make room for collaboration I can almost guarantee it would be new hero banner not seasonal.  So there is plenty of reason to be worried about collabs.  

you dont know what will be cut off. I really would like a collab. Although there are currently more pressing matters with the game then a collab.
AR AA and Arena are a mess. Unit building is mess due to the bloated 4 and 5 Star pools. And units are getting bland without a personal weapon or skill (look at the Blue flier pool... there is only so many variation with the base stat you can go).

I would also like to note that i am not a fan of grinding either. So yeah no grindy stuff plox, but we could use some more resources in grails coins and stones.

[Midnox]

56 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

 

Well, isn't that how most collabs between series' work? Its not as if Alberia is going to suddenly be Askr's next door neighbor. Plus, the entire concept of FEH is opening doors to other realms, and the Outrealms are a thing in the main series too.

 

Well, I wouldn’t know. FEH and DL are the first and, so far, only gatchas I ever played. Makes sense on FEH’s end for the dimension thing, but I’d love for DL to make whoever FE characters come to be more adapted to the local lore

[Lewyn]

20 minutes ago, Hilda said:

you dont know what will be cut off. I really would like a collab. Although there are currently more pressing matters with the game then a collab.
AR AA and Arena are a mess. Unit building is mess due to the bloated 4 and 5 Star pools. And units are getting bland without a personal weapon or skill (look at the Blue flier pool... there is only so many variation with the base stat you can go).

I would also like to note that i am not a fan of grinding either. So yeah no grindy stuff plox, but we could use some more resources in grails coins and stones.

We don't know for sure, but considering seasonals are such money drawing machines I highly doubt they drop one of them for a collab.  So unless they aren't dropping any Heroes banner and just run the collab as an extra, New Heroes banner is likely to suffer.  Yes and there are pressing problems, but that is why we don't need to add more of them.

Yes we could use more grails, coins, and stones.  Maybe they can give more as a log in bonus, or in the monthly quests (without gimping other rewards).  

[alatartheblue42]

20 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I've played the other FE games and they are amazing.  You can grind Hero merit, have you gotten 5000HM with every unit in  your barracks?  Have you built every unit in your barracks and done their heroic ordeal?  Have you done every squad assault challenge, every chain challenge (beginner, hard, lunatic)?  Have you finished all the grandmaster challenges?  Feathers, sacred coins, orbs....those all make an actual impact.

They would never trade out a seasonal banner, they already added Hot springs as another seasonal to look forward to on a yearly basis.  If they cut a banner to make room for collaboration I can almost guarantee it would be new hero banner not seasonal.  So there is plenty of reason to be worried about collabs.  

Yes, FE games are good. I enjoy them a lot, and I think I should go find some people who share my interest, so that we can discuss it and things related to it. Wait...

I can grind Hero Merit on every unit, but why would I? Just because I don't dislike Oboro (example), that doesn't mean I have any reason to go to the effort of getting her to max HM. The rewards aren't exactly important either. We get feathers in a steady enough supply for many purposes. Likewise, I could build every unit in my barracks to their ultimate ideal, but I don't have the orbs for the best skills, and again, what's the point of raising up literally everyone? Its not as if we gain inspiring insight into their world. 

I haven't yet done all the heroic ordeals;  my overall interest in FEH is insufficient to motivate me for something like that when I could play something else or consider doing my homework. Chain challenge, yes. Squad assault, near yes. Grandmaster challenges, also near yes.

Feathers are only important for promoting units, be it for +10ing or for SI. Many of the units that I actually like are 5\* locked, so it doesn't help for +10ing them. Most of the skills that would be useful to me are either a) available on a 4\*, or b) locked to a nat 5\*. Sacred Coins don't really make a difference. I may not have completed all the seals yet, but I've completed all the ones I'm likely to ever use. Of course orbs make a difference, but nobody in their right mind would think that the premium currency of a gacha game would be actually farmable.

 

You can almost guarantee that however much you like, and I could do the same for the side of "they'd only replace a seasonal banner". But do you know the best part? We'd both be wrong. IS are the only ones that know which banners they have planned, and they're the ones who control the game. Its not like they were making their schedule, created a Thracia banner intended for February, showed it to everyone and said "look how pretty Rein alt 3 is", said "fuck it, let's do an onsen banner instead", and threw the hard drives with the contents of the Thracia banner into the nearest volcano. They can't take away something they never gave us in the first place. If there was never intended to be a new hero banner there, then there just wasn't going to be a new hero banner there, regardless of if anything else is planned for that time period.

 

 

I'm also not sure why people say the Onsen banner replaced a New Heroes banner anyway. Isn't roughly one New Hero banner every month the norm? (this isn't criticism, just actual confusion).

[Tybrosion]

32 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

I'm also not sure why people say the Onsen banner replaced a New Heroes banner anyway. Isn't roughly one New Hero banner every month the norm? (this isn't criticism, just actual confusion).

It can vary, as there have been stretches of three straight New Heroes banners (like the Thracia-Fates-Genealogy stretch last year). So long as another new Special Heroes banner doesn’t come along, we should have at least two straight New Heroes banners coming up since brides aren’t until late May.

[Othin]

15 hours ago, Raven said:

This is my main problem with FEH. Everything important requires you play the gacha. You can't play to obtain materials to forge skills and weapons. There's no weapon/skill inventory system where you can even store such things and apply them to characters in the future.

 

So many premium skills are locked to 5* units. You can spend 250+ Orbs on trying to get them and you still won't get that Bold Fighter for your Effie. But you will probably get plenty of what you do not want, like more Vengeful Fighter fodder and more Julia merges, despite sniping blue for that Hardin. It's ridiculous that the gacha system is the only gateway to meaningful upgrades to your existing characters.

It's such a shit system, sometimes I wonder why I still bother playing. It's only because I'm a Fire Emblem fan that I do. Yes, I'm salty.

It depends on how you define "important".

Even if you never summon a single 5* unit, there are currently 162 units available at 4* or lower, either as free/grail units or as common summons that are basically inevitable for everyone eventually. They include most of the weakest units in the game, but also some very powerful ones. Personally, I have every single one of those 162 at 5* by now, and I've gotten a ton of work out of them, even without merges or rare SI.

I feel like people care way too much about SI, especially rare SI. It can make characters a bit better, but there's no need for it unless you think you're supposed to have it.

55 minutes ago, alatartheblue42 said:

I'm also not sure why people say the Onsen banner replaced a New Heroes banner anyway. Isn't roughly one New Hero banner every month the norm? (this isn't criticism, just actual confusion).

Because the first yearly seasonal cycle (Spring to Valentine's) had 9 banners, then the second had 10. Each of them corresponded to one of the first year's, except the Onsen one, which was totally new. That's why last year, both January banners were New Heroes banners, while this year, only one was.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Othin

[alatartheblue42]

20 minutes ago, Othin said:

Because the first yearly seasonal cycle (Spring to Valentine's) had 9 banners, then the second had 10. Each of them corresponded to one of the first year's, except the Onsen one, which was totally new. That's why last year, both January banners were New Heroes banners, while this year, only one was.

I see, I see. nods sagely. I guess its a difference of perspective then; people were comparing it to the overall year cycle, while I was just going off of the impression the more recent months had given me. Thanks for the explanation.

[NegativeExponents-]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

I feel like people care way too much about SI, especially rare SI. It can make characters a bit better, but there's no need for it unless you think you're supposed to have it.

SI is the the meat and bones of the game though. Of course people are gonna be frustrated if they don’t have skills to give to their characters. After all, it’s the only significant way of making them better.

Also, literally everything is “Rare SI” because there tends to be only one source for every skill. I mean, I don’t even have basic shit like Fury, Def +3, Desperation, Hone Atk, etc. to fodder without dipping into grail units or dropping a ton of feathers to promote someone to 5*.

Unless you meant premium SI which is probably easier to get considering how often units with Swift Sparrow, Wrath, Special Spiral, Distant Counter, Breath Skills, Fighter Skills, etc. are featured as focus units although even still you’d probably only get one or two and that’s if you’ve been saving up exclusively for these skills and isn’t hit by bouts of bad luck.

And ok sure, you may not “need” to give units SI but they are undeniably better with it so why wouldn’t you?

[Ice Dragon]

6 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Sacred coins allow us to upgrade seals, divine dew is a rare resource that allows us to refine weapons, heroic grails allow people to +10 free units as well as get valuable fodder, dragon flowers increase stats.  They are all valuable, and not everyone loves to farm.  A lot of people play Heroes specifically cause they hate farming which is prevalent in other gacha games.

We already acquire Sacred Coins fast enough to upgrade all of the commonly used seals plus a decent number of additional seals of our choice. Adding a way to acquire more Sacred Coins (1) gives players the option to max out the seals that are weak or rarely used and (2) gives players who missed out on previous Sacred Coins and Sacred Seals the option to make up for the difference. Maxing out weak or rarely used seals does not contribute significantly to player power, and the players that stand the most to gain from this are the players that missed out on earlier Sacred Seals because not only do they have fewer Sacred Coins available to upgrade the seals that they do have, but they also need to spend more of those fewer Sacred Coins that they have on crafting seals that they missed.

Divine Dew is similarly not in a position where giving players more access to it significantly increases player power. Players who have been active since Divine Dew was implemented should have enough Dew to refine weapons one quarter to one third as quickly as they are implemented, which is sufficiently fast enough to upgrade the weapons for multiple teams. Adding more availability for Divine Dew doesn't really add to player power so much as it (1) adds to the diversity of a player's barracks and (2) encourages experimentation with customizing builds, which is what this game should be promoting, not restricting.

Heroic Grails allow players to have more easy access to +10 units, but the number of Grails needed to do so is a staggering amount. Furthermore, Grail-purchasable units are in limited supply, as you can only buy 20 of each unit before the store is sold out. As long as the number of Grails obtained per farming run is kept well-balanced, I don't see this being a problem in any way. If players want to spend more time to acquire more copies of free units, I think they should be allowed to do so, and I don't think players getting access to more copies of free units puts players who don't grind at a noticeable disadvantage.

Dragonflowers require you to spend a huge pile of them to gain a paltry +1 to each stat that doesn't even count towards Arena scoring. Hardly gamebreaking in the least if we get more access to them.

 

Furthermore, as shown with your hypothetical orb example, you seem to think that being able to double your normal monthly acquisition rate is reasonable for grinding output, but unreasonable for player balance. Either that, or you were deliberately picking a value that large so that you should show how absurd it could be.

The amount that is reasonable depends on the resource. Sacred Coins and Divine Dew, which do not contribute heavily to player power after a reaching the point where it plateaus, I think could be allowed to be grindable at an amount to double or triple the normal monthly acquisition rate, perhaps with even a bonus on top of that for players that return without logging in for a while as a catch-up mechanic.

Heroic Grails and Dragonflowers do not contribute much to player power, but also take a very long time to plateau in its contributions, so having a grinding acquisition rate of 50% the normal monthly acquisition rate seems to be reasonable.

 

6 hours ago, Lewyn said:

You have mentioned several times you haven't played Fates and maybe other games, why not use your spare time to do that instead of monotonous grinding?

I many times come home from work tired and mentally drained and would like to do something brainless. Reading is not brainless enough of an activity for me, especially when I'm doing so in Japanese. Grinding is pretty brainless and gives me a sense of actual measurable progress towards some goal.

And being able to have progress like this simply feels better than staring at the screen and realizing there is literally nothing to do in the game that gets me anywhere.

Furthermore, Stamina is so worthless in this game (due to the gigantic supply of restores with very little content that actually uses Stamina) that I don't feel at all compelled to use Stamina at all, even when it is capped. Contrast this with F/GO where AP, the equivalent of Stamina, is a very valuable resource due to farming nodes costing a significant amount of AP to run and restoration items being in much lower supply relative to AP costs.

 

6 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Please as someone who plays Fate order also, tell me what is the appeal of brainless repetitive tasks?

It is difficult to do non-brainless tasks when I am not feeling up to using my brain. I use it enough at work and often want to relax at home.

 

5 hours ago, alatartheblue42 said:

I'm also not sure why people say the Onsen banner replaced a New Heroes banner anyway. Isn't roughly one New Hero banner every month the norm? (this isn't criticism, just actual confusion).

Year 1 had 9 Special Heroes banners:

1. Spring
2. Brides
3. Summer 1
4. Summer 2
5. Dancers
6. Halloween
7. Winter
8. New Year's
9. Valentine's

Year 2 had 10 Special Heroes banners:

1. Spring
2. Brides
3. Summer 1
4. Summer 2
5. Dancers
6. Halloween
7. Winter
8. New Year's
9. Onsen
10. Valentine's

The norm is 2 banners a month, meaning the addition of one new Special Heroes banner means a New Heroes banner was removed in that month. Granted, we did also get a previously unheard of third banner in one month when we got Generals of Muspell, but that has definitely been shown to be an exception rather than something to ever expect.

[Othin]

5 hours ago, NegativeExponents- said:

SI is the the meat and bones of the game though. Of course people are gonna be frustrated if they don’t have skills to give to their characters. After all, it’s the only significant way of making them better.

Also, literally everything is “Rare SI” because there tends to be only one source for every skill. I mean, I don’t even have basic shit like Fury, Def +3, Desperation, Hone Atk, etc. to fodder without dipping into grail units or dropping a ton of feathers to promote someone to 5*.

Unless you meant premium SI which is probably easier to get considering how often units with Swift Sparrow, Wrath, Special Spiral, Distant Counter, Breath Skills, Fighter Skills, etc. are featured as focus units although even still you’d probably only get one or two and that’s if you’ve been saving up exclusively for these skills and isn’t hit by bouts of bad luck.

And ok sure, you may not “need” to give units SI but they are undeniably better with it so why wouldn’t you?

When I say "rare SI", I mean SI that requires a 5* exclusive unit. Or a grail one, I guess. Feathers are cheap anyway, 20k is like a week's worth even without HM grinding. Orbs are the valuable thing, and I think spending orbs on skills is pretty wasteful.

I've only used rare SI a few times, when getting random duplicates, and I've generally been disappointed by it. It's a bit of extra power for one unit, when you're actually using that unit, and it takes up a spot you could use for some other skill in the first place. Plus there might be other units that naturally have the skill that can use it just as well or better.

I leave most of my units with their base kits nowadays because they're fine as they are. I'll fill out empty slots in skill sets of units I want to bring into something like Arena, particularly assists, but common skills work fine for that. To go back to the Bold Fighter example - I got a duplicate Kagero from Yune's banner just now, and I'm planning on merging her rather than foddering her. I already have four armors with Bold Fighter, and my other slow armors either already have a good B skill or can just pick up a cheap Wary Fighter if I ever start caring. I don't feel a need for that kind of specific power concentrated in specific units, and I think that lets me find this game a lot less demanding than people who do.

Edited March 29, 2019 by Othin

[Cute Chao]

18 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

It's amazing how much I agree and disagree with you at the same time.

I too think that there is no such thing as a bottom of the barrel character (except Brigand Boss, screw that guy) and even if there was, getting in FEH would be the perfect occation to give them some characterization. Every single character deserves a spot.

But at the same time I don't agree at all with your melodramatic and pessimistic views about crossovers.

If they put Mario, Bowser, Peach and Yoshi on a banner, they aren't telling you that your votes don't matter and the remaining characters from various games are complete sh*t. They are still going to put said remaining characters on the next banner starting in a couple of weeks. Collaborations aren't done on a whim, they are difficult. Even with all the optimism in the world I doubt we could have more than one collab per year in FEH. A drop in the ocean, compared with how many banners we will get in said year. And being so negative about it makes you look like a killjoy. Originally, crossover and collaborations where born to please the fans, as a sort of gift from the developers, the ultimate fanservice.

To see such a negative reaction from the same fans that should be pleased saddens my heart.

And I strongly disagree with the notion that a collab means they have given up, they are going under, they bo longer have faith in their own property. Because if that was the case, how come games that are extremely successful and have lots of other stuff to add are doing collaborations at all? Did GBF do that Persona 5 crossover because the game was dying? I don't think so.

I don't think it melodramatic, but people often say that about me. I said at the start with the brides banner that this wasn't a good sign and look at the amount of female weighted banners since then - seasonal, especially, and our last Sacred Stones one that didn't even bother to consider that any guys could be added v.v 

Collabs would be a gift if it weren't in a game that has continuously skipped over less popular games in favour of seasonals that don't even make sense (the Royal Hot Springs one being the prime example, but we don't need two summer banners and we also didn't need alts in the common pool). 

I don't understand why I, as a fan of Fire Emblem, should be pleased to see my favourites again skipped over in favour of popular characters that have their own game and nothing to do with FE. Most gacha games don't have so many characters to call from, so normally it is a celebration, but in this instance it wouldn't feel that way. Plus seeing them running around would kill the immersion. You talk as if we have so many banners each year - we get two a month and one of those is usually seasonal. 

Now my stance would possibly change, but only if they changed the way they do things. If they started releasing less popular characters at 3-4*, if they cut back on the seasonals… if they did something to make me feel cared for as a Fire Emblem fan of all the games (and I mean all - from FE 1 - FE 14 and soon probably FE 15. Heck, even TMS, Cipher and Warriors - the only crossovers I would accept because they were created with FE in mind, at least). 

Until then, it wouldn't please me. It would just make me think that again they're scraping for money. I apologise if the cynical view upsets you, but they've done nothing to dispel that. Dragalia Lost, on the other hand, is a game without any franchise characters waiting to get in. It's the perfect place for collabs and I look forward to it there. 

 

18 hours ago, Tybrosion said:

Look me dead in the eyes and try to convince me that Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum in armor knight form are actually worth the effort of putting into this game and that they wouldn't just be filler that no one would give a shit about in this game too. I think you'll find it outright impossible.

While I kinda wish I could see things like this, I simply can't be paid enough money to give the slightest shit about Dolph, Macellan, and all of Archanea's other worthless filler like Kris. Relying on characters like them would be what truly reeks of desperation.

See, with the current state of things, I agree with you. I do not think they should or ever will be added at 5*. But I would like to see them in the game, if they bothered to ever consider releasing units at 3* to get skills in the pool or to update those daily hero battles. And no, it wouldn't seem like desperation to me. That's the constant Camilla alts and seasonals, where they keep releasing the same few characters again and again. It would seem like they actually care somewhat about their games and the characters they released, instead of just throwing them away. I will also add that everyone in CYL got a vote, even the lowest ranking person, so someone somewhere does care - whether it's just for laughs. 

Edited March 29, 2019 by Cute Chao

[Othin]

Personally, there's one series I'd take crossover characters for in a New Heroes slot, but that's because it wouldn't feel like a crossover at all.

IS would never go for that one, of course. And even if they were interested, I'm not sure if Kaga would approve it either.

[bethany81707]

16 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I will also add that everyone in CYL got a vote, even the lowest ranking person, so someone somewhere does care - whether it's just for laughs. 

I don't think any of them got less votes than a single person can cast.

At least two people care about everyone. Or one guy with a proxy.

[Raven]

10 hours ago, Othin said:

It depends on how you define "important".

Even if you never summon a single 5* unit, there are currently 162 units available at 4* or lower, either as free/grail units or as common summons that are basically inevitable for everyone eventually. They include most of the weakest units in the game, but also some very powerful ones. Personally, I have every single one of those 162 at 5* by now, and I've gotten a ton of work out of them, even without merges or rare SI.

I feel like people care way too much about SI, especially rare SI. It can make characters a bit better, but there's no need for it unless you think you're supposed to have it.

To me at least, "important" means a skill that will allow your units to perform at their very best, beyond what they could achieve from more commonly available skills. Most 5*-exclusive skills fall into this category. Sure you can stick Fury 3/LaD 3/Brazen AtkDef on everything, but doing the same builds on similar units gets boring, fast. People want variety. I know I do, at least. And for me, making my favourites the best they can be is important towards my enjoyment of this game.

Having to play the gacha for every thing I would like, whether it's that Fury 3 I can't get because I cannot pull a Hinata (I'm not wasting 20k feathers for Fury 3 when I can be merging up my Lilina) or that Bold Fighter for my Effie, you're playing the gacha. It's not fun, nor is it engaging. Collecting and saving Orbs is just about the biggest sense of "progression" we get to experience in this game as players. Even with dedication towards to saving for a specific cause (e.g. Bold Fighter for your Effie), the outcome is never guaranteed because we need to play the goddamned gacha for it. Can't get what you'd like after saving Orbs for a month? Welp, tough shit, kid, just keep saving those Orbs and try again next time Bold Fighter is on focus! Fuck that noise, honestly.

At least where Dragalia is concerned, you see a weapon you want, you see what materials are needed for it, you grind on the specific challenges that reward you those materials, you forge your weapon, and it's a great feeling when your dedication and hard work finally pays off. Your character is stronger for it, too. A feeling that can never be replicated in Heroes in its current state.

[Cute Chao]

22 minutes ago, bethany81707 said:

I don't think any of them got less votes than a single person can cast.

At least two people care about everyone. Or one guy with a proxy.

True... though I may have voted for Kent 19 times xD 

But even so, I feel I put most of my energy in FEH because it's the game series that I love the most... and with the way they've done it, they've made me feel pretty disillusioned and alienated as a fan. Adding collabs just makes that feeling even worse. If they'd done it a different way, or if they changed the way they do things... Like I say, maybe then. But the feeling of your favourite being replaced by someone from another game entirely because they're just not important enough is bad. I wouldn't even say Kent is unimportant, just taking my own favourite into account, because he had a good role in the opening of FE7... but oh well, who cares? And then there are those who don't even have that just getting thrown away instead of any characterisation or update added to them. 

I know, they might have never come into the game anyway, but to me, the feeling is just as important (see how a lot of people got angry at the free 5*s at the anniversary because of the feelings behind it, rather than what we actually got). 

[GrandeRampel]

2 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

Now my stance would possibly change, but only if they changed the way they do things. If they started releasing less popular characters at 3-4*, if they cut back on the seasonals… if they did something to make me feel cared for as a Fire Emblem fan of all the games (and I mean all - from FE 1 - FE 14 and soon probably FE 15. Heck, even TMS, Cipher and Warriors - the only crossovers I would accept because they were created with FE in mind, at least). 

Until then, it wouldn't please me. It would just make me think that again they're scraping for money. I apologise if the cynical view upsets you, but they've done nothing to dispel that. Dragalia Lost, on the other hand, is a game without any franchise characters waiting to get in. It's the perfect place for collabs and I look forward to it there. 

 

See, with the current state of things, I agree with you. I do not think they should or ever will be added at 5*. But I would like to see them in the game, if they bothered to ever consider releasing units at 3* to get skills in the pool or to update those daily hero battles.

Do you want to know the real reason they don't do this? Because even if they make those new units low effort from a skill pov, there is something that will remain high effort and high costs no matter what. The art and the voice acting. If they pay an artist to draw a bald, old armor knight from Archanea that literally 3 people like, and they release him without fanfare, they literally lost time and money.

That's the biggest ostacle against having the entire roster in this game.

Edited March 29, 2019 by GrandeRampel

[Javi Blizz]

1 hour ago, GrandeRampel said:

Do you want to know the real reason they don't do this? Because even if they make those new units low effort from a skill pov, there is something that will remain high effort and high costs no matter what. The art and the voice acting. If they pay an artist to draw a bald, old armor knight from Archanea that literally 3 people like, and they release him without fanfare, they literally lost time and money.

That's the biggest ostacle against having the entire roster in this game.

That's also an opportunnity for them to discover new, unknown artists which would require much less money (the same about voice acting). I wouldn't mind them drawn even worse than Arthur, because they'd be units that diserve to be in the game, not to be premium.I would gladly spent my free orbs trying to get new 3*-4* units. But I wouldn't use a single orb (maybe even not using the free pull) in a collab reskin banner. Heck, using low profile artist in such units wouldn't even be a problem if the result is not what they expected since they are 3* units, so people wouldn't complain. 

I'd like to be able to use Doplh for example. I know nothing about him. But what I know is that all our male armors are either A)Pretty Boys or B) Final Boss, looking wise. To be able to use a normal armor guy, like him, Valbar or Benny for example. To be able to learn something about him or other (Archanea, Jugdral, etc) generics. They were given a face and a name. They're not Dodo, Rere or Lala from Shadow Dragon generics. 

Conecting to your previous post, I don't find a collab in this game the ultimate fanservice. In fact, I consider it the worst fanservice that they could give us. I'd even prefer Bride Camilla at this point. So, why should I be pleased to see characters from other franchises that at best I don´t care at all in FEH? At least alts are reskins using FE characters. 

At least, if they ever do a collab, I hope they put an option where you can see collab characters as FEH generics in Arena and those modes. 

 

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 hours ago, GrandeRampel said:

Do you want to know the real reason they don't do this? Because even if they make those new units low effort from a skill pov, there is something that will remain high effort and high costs no matter what. The art and the voice acting. If they pay an artist to draw a bald, old armor knight from Archanea that literally 3 people like, and they release him without fanfare, they literally lost time and money.

 

VAs were a mistake. Hire Intern-kun if they have to. S/he isn't getting paid. 

 

[Tybrosion]

4 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

VAs were a mistake. Hire Intern-kun if they have to. S/he isn't getting paid. 

And end up with Mega Man 8 / Mega Man X4 tier voice acting? Yeah, that’d be a hard pass from me.

[Othin]

4 hours ago, Raven said:

To me at least, "important" means a skill that will allow your units to perform at their very best, beyond what they could achieve from more commonly available skills. Most 5*-exclusive skills fall into this category. Sure you can stick Fury 3/LaD 3/Brazen AtkDef on everything, but doing the same builds on similar units gets boring, fast. People want variety. I know I do, at least. And for me, making my favourites the best they can be is important towards my enjoyment of this game.

Having to play the gacha for every thing I would like, whether it's that Fury 3 I can't get because I cannot pull a Hinata (I'm not wasting 20k feathers for Fury 3 when I can be merging up my Lilina) or that Bold Fighter for my Effie, you're playing the gacha. It's not fun, nor is it engaging. Collecting and saving Orbs is just about the biggest sense of "progression" we get to experience in this game as players. Even with dedication towards to saving for a specific cause (e.g. Bold Fighter for your Effie), the outcome is never guaranteed because we need to play the goddamned gacha for it. Can't get what you'd like after saving Orbs for a month? Welp, tough shit, kid, just keep saving those Orbs and try again next time Bold Fighter is on focus! Fuck that noise, honestly.

At least where Dragalia is concerned, you see a weapon you want, you see what materials are needed for it, you grind on the specific challenges that reward you those materials, you forge your weapon, and it's a great feeling when your dedication and hard work finally pays off. Your character is stronger for it, too. A feeling that can never be replicated in Heroes in its current state.

I like variety and that's why I'd never use my orbs to try to get a single skill for one of my existing units rather than a whole new unit.

It's a shame that Heroes doesn't have they kind of progression system, but I think it's a more fun game with just rolling with whatever SI you have readily enough on hand rather than trying to force a bunch of rare SI in a game that doesn't support it well. Any character can do fine with only inheriting skills available in the 4* pool, and everything I've heard about people trying to go heavily into rare SI makes it sound completely miserable.

[Magical Glace]

17 hours ago, Lewyn said:

Please as someone who plays Fate order also, tell me what is the appeal of brainless repetitive tasks?

You don't even need to grind that much to do well in FGO outside main story releases and the current JP event (which isn't really grindy, just has a lot of loading for no reason that makes it slow and tedious), just empty your AP bar twice a day.  It takes ~3 runs of a 40 AP node (the usual cost for the most efficient node) to empty the bar.  You don't have to clear shop every event.  

As to why I want a MEANINGFUL grind...

This is the current status of my favorite Type-Moon character in my NA FGO account:

Spoiler

Aside from the NP level (merge), which was basically just EX luck on my part, the maxing of the character was done with effort and time investment.  You can tell by looking at this that I love Iskandar a lot.  The character is a limited 5*, I rolled him in April 2018, maxing skills took until July while specifically holding off on using resources he needed for any other purpose than maxing him.  Maxing Bond took until mid-February. 

The appeal is just showing that I love the character.  

Meanwhile, this is what one of my tied for second favorite (as #1 isn't in the game yet) FE characters looks like in Heroes.

Spoiler

There's not a whole lot I can do to improve this without surrendering to the gacha.  I can stuff her with more Dragonflowers, but those do hardly anything: there's too much asked for too little reward.  There is nothing special my little FTP self can do to the Micaiah to make her stand out.  No amount of time and effort can I put in to show my love of Micaiah like I could with Iskandar.  

That's why I want something to grind, anyway.  I want to pull the focus of character strengthening off of gacha and luck and onto my own effort.