Alastor plays and ranks the whole series! Mission Complete! ...For now.

[Interdimensional Observer]

Even the translators said they had no idea what the third option Dorius meant was.

 

Chapter 10 is one rude awakening to Thracia ballistae. You're not dealing with just one, you're dealing with seven and a Bolting, each of which hits for heavy and possibly fatal damage, their ranges are sometimes interlocking, with ten uses each, and plenty of tanky armors and rough terrain to make it difficult to reach them.

What other game does this? I can't think of one that gives such a no-holds barred intro to a new enemy trick. It felt a little overdone actually, I think the map could've done with a few less, I hope a hypothetical Easy mode for a hypothetical Thracia 776 remake actually removes a ballistae or three. Because I feel this map as is would be brutal to newbies, if they somehow survived the incinerator of Manster.

On the other hand, ballistae feel more "realistic" in their layering and great power here. I give Thracia some props for that.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Chapter 10 is one rude awakening to Thracia ballistae. You're not dealing with just one, you're dealing with seven and a Bolting, each of which hits for heavy and possibly fatal damage, their ranges are sometimes interlocking, with ten uses each, and plenty of tanky armors and rough terrain to make it difficult to reach them.

What other game does this? I can't think of one that gives such a no-holds barred intro to a new enemy trick. It felt a little overdone actually, I think the map could've done with a few less, I hope a hypothetical Easy mode for a hypothetical Thracia 776 remake actually removes a ballistae or three. Because I feel this map as is would be brutal to newbies, if they somehow survived the incinerator of Manster.

On the other hand, ballistae feel more "realistic" in their layering and great power here. I give Thracia some props for that.

The ballistae honestly didn't bother me nearly as much as the armor knights did. The ballistae were all put in positions where they could realistically be taken out by anyone who can take at least two hits and had a vulnerary. And I like the concept of the mission, where you have to go along the sides to take out the ballistae before you can proceed safely. I just wish the game were better at telegraphic that that was the actual idea.

[Eltosian Kadath]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

I'm honestly not sure what the third option Dorius's referring to is. And the way he describes it, like a child should be able to figure it out just by hearing what the first two options for dealing with the ballistae are, makes me feel like an idiot for not being able to guess what specific third method he has in mind even though I also recognize that really shouldn't be my reaction.

I think he is referring to avoiding most of the ballista by taking the southern route using the bridge key, but you still have to deal with two of them anyway.

 

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Trying to smoothly get the stamina drinks on those thieves, however, is a serious gamble. Fortunately, at least saving the villages isn't that much of an issue. The thieves seem to be acting like Galzus, in that they don't move every turn. Honestly, since movement is so variable in this game, they really should have better telegraphed that by just making the thieves have low movement, like Conquest did a few times.

I vaguely remember them having something like a 50% chance of moving, but I can't for the life of me remember where that number came from. I've generally found saving the southern village a bit RNG reliant, although the northern one isn't (as long as you don't waste too much time trying to capture the flame sword).

 

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

And given that Largo is on such good terms with Olwen, I can only assume that Olwen is only recruitable if I take Largo alive, so it would be really fucking nice if the game would cooperate in helping me work out what weapons I need to bring in order to have a chance of beating him while capturing.

Not actually the case, but Largo is one of those instances where capturing and holding onto the boss gets you unique dialogue at the end of the chapter. I've done it once, but it is a pain to pull off. In case you are curious here is the alternate version, but it is from a stream that continues into next chapter as well...

 

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

So no PCC from anyone except fucking Ced with Forseti, and you can't capture with magic even if he were here.

You can capture with magic, you just can't do so from range, plus most mages don't get the kinda con you need to capture unless they have a horse.

 

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

And it looks like Olwen and company barely stick around for any time at all before retreating. In fact I think she decided to leave after one turn! Makes me question the point of sticking around at all, honestly, if all she was going to do is delay the race to call for reinforcements without even engaging the enemy.

I think its a little closer to 2-3 turns, but you still really have to be pushing in with all of your forces to see any combat with her. I vaguely remember them having invincibility flags on this map (and this map only) similar to Eyvel did, but you can steal the Dire Thunder and/or Bolt Sword off of them if you manage to really massively over grind Lifis's build.

 

[Alastor15243]

Thracia Day 15: Chapter 11

Lesson learned: Taking part in battle does get you experience even if you don't fight back, but taking part in battle also fatigues you even if you don't fight back. Lithis is completely out of commission for this chapter. But depending on whether or not this has anything I want to steal, I may use one of the stamina drinks he stole to keep him in the game here.

Okay. Looking at how outrageously linear this map is, and the suspicious number of doors separating me from the central room, and the fact that this is the map I saw in the screenshot of Kempf's infamous line from the old translation, I can only assume that there's going to be some kind of trap for me in here.

...Yep. I definitely wanna use Lithis here. The sheer number of doors that need to be unlocked in precarious positions, indoors where I can't use rescue strategies nearly as well, tells me this is not a place where I want to bring Lara. Lithis is actually decently bulky with the paragon sword equipped. Nine defense, 28 HP.

Wooooooow. Kempf is a massive, massive shitbag. I can't wait to smoke this fucker.

Oh for fuck's sake game, again!?

What was the point of hiding the fact that those doors would be unlocked when the game actually started!?

Anyway, Kempf has ordered Olwen's companion (and I thiiiiiink lover, if I'm remembering correctly) Alfred to fight us. I'm pretty sure he's recruitable. But I can't think of how to do it without Olwen, and I can't capture him since he's mounted and I don't have a sleep staff. I'll just have to see if I can talk to him.

But anyway, with those doors gone, that all but completely invalidates my reasons for using a stamina drink on Lithis, so I'll have him sit this out and have Lara sub for him.

...And now Kempf commands his troops to initiate “operation: portcullis”, which I can only assume involves... closing the doors to the fort once we get inside. Possibly those doors we saw earlier? Shit, if it turns out I should have brought Lithis anyway...

...Fuck it, I'll make it work.

Bizarrely, Kempf's orders that essentially boil down to “act casual” involve the armor knights in the middle of the fort just randomly wandering around in all directions. As amusing of a mental image as that makes (I'm picturing them all whistling innocently while wandering around in winding circles, possibly bumping into each other), it's utterly bizarre to see how much this game loves randomizing the AI of certain units and making them do strange shit for no reason sometimes.

While the armor knights are running around randomly, they will attack if they get close enough that they can reach someone. So I can bait a few of them out before jumping right into this no-doubt Vespuccian trap.

...Alright, I baited out some enemies and actually managed to get some pretty good levels on Tanya (it helps that she gains that sweet free exp even if she does no damage, and now her weapon rank, strength and con are up enough for her to do some damage to these armor knights without crits). Of course, the only reason I'm even bothering with Tanya is because she has a support bonus with two of my main fighters, but since she is... might as well make her useful while I still can!

Anyway, I can't actually talk to Alfred, but I know there's a way to recruit him. I guess I'll just have to “fall for” the trap and wait and see what happens.

...Yep. Looks like this treachery convinces Alfred to side with me. At least as a green unit. So, all those doors from before close up again, and those ballistae appear. Oh well. Nothing else for it but to milk them for experience, because both my thief and my healer literally cannot survive a single shot from either of them. Thankfully I can rescue them pretty easily after Lara opens a door. I should be able to have her open one every turn and rescue drop her to safety, get Leif, Finn and Alfred out of the trap, and then wait for their ballistae to run out. I hate that this is what I have to do to clear this, but Lara is just so outrageously fragile that trying to unlock those doors to move further into the fort while the ballistae still have ammo would be psychotically insane. I'm glad this happened on my turn at least so I had time to react, if only because I knew something was coming so I didn't move anyone else.

JESUS CHRIST THOSE BALLISTAE ARE STRONG ENOUGH TO NEARLY TWO-SHOT ALFRED. IF BOTH OF THEM HIT HE WOULD HAVE BEEN AT ONE HP.

...But something even worse happened. He didn't take two shots.

He took one shot, and thus refused to use his vulnerary because he was still over half HP, even though now two hits will kill him!

Wow, good thing I have physic to make up for his crippling stupidit-

...YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE HEALING STAVES ON GREEN UNITS!?

SINCE WHEN!?

SINCE WHY!?

EIGHTY SEVEN INFERNAL ASSFUCKS AND A REACH-AROUND FROM ASHNARD, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, GAME!?

...WELL, ALFRED IS DEAD NOW. He refused to use a vulnerary because he was still above half health, the game wouldn't let me physic him, he refused to move so he at least would only be in range of one of them, and I couldn't get the doors open in time, and now he's dead. Which I'm assuming means I can't get Olwen, because he doesn't “retreat” or anything, no, his defeat quote is pretty damned death-y. Meaning I have to give up those nice Tanya level ups because this game appears to have nothing but contempt for my desire to get through it with anything but luck or cheese.

I'm just in complete shock at what just happened. As far as I can tell from first impressions, the game apparently expects you to unlock three fucking doors in the space of one turn, or else get really lucky with the specific pattern in which the enemies attack Alfred so he can actually heal. This honestly wouldn't even have been a problem if this game didn't disable the ability to heal green units for who the fuck knows why. And now I need to decide, right here and now, if there's any point at all to restarting this chapter for the sake of getting Olwen, or if there's even anything I can reliably do with the power of hindsight. Switching to Lithis won't help. Even Lithis can't survive two hits from those ballistae, even with the paragon sword and the nice levels he got.

Jesus Christ, this is even worse than what I thought that chapter 5 colosseum battle was, except now it's for real. I just don't get why this game enjoys throwing crazy random number generators at all of its race-against-time challenges, and is willing to make the worst-case-scenario all but impossible to beat.

...No. Fuck it. I'm moving on. If this means I can't recruit Olwen, then so be it. Apparently there's another mage knight you can get if you don't have Olwen in your party, so I might just go for that if I have to. Dire thunder may be awesome, but it's not worth putting up with this horseshit if that's what the game expects of me. I'm moving forward. Alfred himself decidedly is not worth redoing all that just for another roll of the fucking dice that I might keep him alive. Not even with his thunder sword, now that I know those things aren't one-of-a-kind.

...As I was having Tanya wait out the ballistae to get some more levels (she's gaining strength, speed and con nicely, and even some defense too, thanks to the scrolls I gave her), the music just changed out of nowhere to the music that played when Galzus appeared in chapter 6.

...Suddenly I'm concerned that there might be reinforcements behind me on the way if I take too long with these ballistae.

...Well if they do appear, I'll have a nice bottleneck to hold them off with.

Incidentally, for some reason this music reminds me of some of the darker music in Donkey Kong 64. Maybe other Grant Kirkhope soundtracks too, but DK64 is the one I'm most familiar with and thus the most reminded of.

The chest on this map had a torch staff, and hey, having more light for fog of war maps is always appreciated. But judging by the wording, it's basically functionally identical to a five-use version of the torch item, just like ensorcel and pure water.

...Curious. I think Kempf might be rigged to be unkillable. The turn after confronting him, he warps away. Either it's another absurdly strict time-limit to beat him, or the game makes it impossible for him to die on that one turn because he's needed for the story elsewhere. Knowing this game? Honestly either sounds possible, but I'm still banking on the latter, since he seems really story-important, at least in the short term.

And judging by the fact that they didn't bother searching the dungeons, I'm assuming I needed Alfred alive to even let Leif know that Olwen's been imprisoned and to release her. Oh well. Looks like I'm not getting Olwen. If that's what the game expects me to put up with in order to get him, then fuck that.

...But part of me still doesn't want to overwrite that save for some reason. Okay fine, I'll save in another spot, in case I'm batshit insane and somehow fucked up my save royally by doing this. But I'm still moving on until and unless that proves to be the case.

...Well... that was... horrible. While it was somewhat satisfying cheesing this map to get Tanya up to speed, holy shit was this a ridiculous chapter. I'm starting to think that forcing the ballistae to run out of shots is going to be a recurring tactic, given how few of my units can survive two, and some can't even survive one.

It's outrageously idiotic how deadly these things are for how often the game throws multiple at you, and I'm getting pretty well convinced that the game basically expects you to just pray they don't kill anyone, rather than find any genuinely reliable strategy to take them down.

I am not a happy camper right now. This game is starting to show some of its big dumb colors, and I hope that what we're dealing with now isn't just going to become the norm. I honestly wouldn't have been so pissed off if Alfred hadn't been so outrageously stupid about handling the situation he was in. Not even bothering to move to a better position or heal himself to avoid the risk of instant death! I ASK YOU!

In hindsight, the only thing I can think of that would have reliably saved Alfred would have been to use the warp staff and send someone to assassinate one of the ballistae up close. But one, that still would have required me to kill all of the armor knights before setting foot inside that death trap like I did, which while wise was tedious, and for all I know, there are even worse hurdles the game has planned for me, and that staff only has three uses.

Well. Too late now. I made my choice. I've gotta live with it.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Interdimensional Observer]

I had a feeling you wouldn't like this map. A trap, even one where the boss tells you there will be one, I thought would not sit well with you.

I totally agree Alfred has to be less random/healable by Physics, he is a bother here that he can die so easily.

 

18 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

...No. Fuck it. I'm moving on. If this means I can't recruit Olwen, then so be it. Apparently there's another mage knight you can get if you don't have Olwen in your party, so I might just go for that if I have to.

Note that if you're going for the replacement, you'll have to make the right choice later- the smell of seawater instead of the scent of pine. The game will make something of a big deal out of this.

And don't worry, while Olwen definitely has her fans and positives, the alternative has their fans and strengths too.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Eltosian Kadath]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

In hindsight, the only thing I can think of that would have reliably saved Alfred would have been to use the warp staff and send someone to assassinate one of the ballistae up close.

...use Door keys, four of the Armor knights had them for you to capture/steal if you never bothered to buy any from the last two shops, and they let you open three door in one turn to let him make his escape. Alternatively putting a squishier unit that can survive a hit in range of only one ballista can distract one/both.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Curious. I think Kempf might be rigged to be unkillable.

That is entirely true, he has an invincibility flag this chapter.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

the music just changed out of nowhere to the music that played when Galzus appeared in chapter 6.

Having a unit die is one of the ways for that music to trigger.

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...No. Fuck it. I'm moving on.

I will also note that this makes you miss out on a Gaiden chapter

[Alastor15243]

10 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

...use Door keys, four of the Armor knights had them for you to capture/steal if you never bothered to buy any from the last two shops, and they let you open three door in one turn to let him make his escape. Alternatively putting a squishier unit that can survive a hit in range of only one ballista can distract one/both.

I tried the latter, actually. They still went for Alfred even with Tanya in range of one.

 

As for the door keys, that might have been an option, assuming I had three units with enough bulk to take two ballista shots. As it turns out, I appear to have exactly three units who meet the benchmark of being able to survive two 25-damage attacks. Orson, Callion and Leif. Unless I missed someone, no one else can.

[Shadow Mir]

On 12/21/2019 at 10:39 PM, Jotari said:

Repeated escapes can lead to desperation. I don't think the T 1000 is less intimidating because the protagonists continually escape it all movie. The very fact that it keeps coming is the intimidating thing.

I know I'm going off topic here, but... doesn't that sound kinda like Nemesis in the Resident Evil series?

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Wow, good thing I have physic to make up for his crippling stupidit-

...YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO USE HEALING STAVES ON GREEN UNITS!?

SINCE WHEN!?

SINCE WHY!?

EIGHTY SEVEN INFERNAL ASSFUCKS AND A REACH-AROUND FROM ASHNARD, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, GAME!?

...WELL, ALFRED IS DEAD NOW. He refused to use a vulnerary because he was still above half health, the game wouldn't let me physic him, he refused to move so he at least would only be in range of one of them, and I couldn't get the doors open in time, and now he's dead. Which I'm assuming means I can't get Olwen, because he doesn't “retreat” or anything, no, his defeat quote is pretty damned death-y. Meaning I have to give up those nice Tanya level ups because this game appears to have nothing but contempt for my desire to get through it with anything but luck or cheese.

I sure hope that gets fixed in a remake. Hell, I think this game needs a boatload of improvement to be done in a remake just to be something I can even remotely call playable, because as it is, it's a big joke.

[Eltosian Kadath]

35 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

I tried the latter, actually. They still went for Alfred even with Tanya in range of one.

This might be killing AI taking precedent, so if you start the baiting before he takes a hit and enters dangerous levels of health they will go for the higher damage squishier targets.

 

37 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

As for the door keys, that might have been an option, assuming I had three units with enough bulk to take two ballista shots. As it turns out, I appear to have exactly three units who meet the benchmark of being able to survive two 25-damage attacks. Orson, Callion and Leif. Unless I missed someone, no one else can.

If someone outside opens the bottom door they can be rescued out of all attack ranges by an infantry, and its not hard to use a cavalry unit to rescue and canto to safety for anyone with low con opening the second lowest door from outside as well. If you have a cavalry starting their turn close enough to the door they can open it with a key and canto out of one's range to safety. There are options even with less bulky units.

[Espurrhoodie]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

EIGHTY SEVEN INFERNAL ASSFUCKS AND A REACH-AROUND FROM ASHNARD, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU, GAME!?

Unrelated to your agony, but this is an absolutely beautiful insult.

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

This might be killing AI taking precedent, so if you start the baiting before he takes a hit and enters dangerous levels of health they will go for the higher damage squishier targets.

That doesn't seem likely. I just confirmed that Finn isn't strong enough to survive two attacks, but they went for 3-to-dead Alfred over 2-to-dead Finn. Unless the AI considers miracle special in some way as to somehow make the AI ignore the fact that they can two-shot him.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Eltosian Kadath]

8 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

That doesn't seem likely. I just confirmed that Finn isn't strong enough to survive two attacks, but they went for 3-to-dead Alfred over 2-to-dead Finn. Unless the AI considers miracle to somehow make the AI ignore the fact that they can two-shot him.

Curious, I kinda regret not having a save on that chapter (much to my frustration here I have one on 11x) to test things out further, as that seems like some odd behavior coming from ballista.

[Jotari]

23 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

The staff is okay, but in practice it's basically just a five use pure water. Nothing particularly special, but hey, I might as well use it.

Te big advantage of the barrier staff over holy water, is that in this game increasing resistance increases magic damage. But because it takes a turn to actually use the holy water, you won't get the full +7 atk bonus unless someone dances the unit. With someone else using the barrier on the mage they get the full +7 on the same turn. This might seem minor, but because it can make all the difference when it comes to using or tanking status staves.

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

Oh for fuck's sake game, again!?

What was the point of hiding the fact that those doors would be unlocked when the game actually started!?

Funny thing here, is that the game is doing exactly what you want it to do really. Imagine how pissed you'd be if the doors closed and you had no idea there were even doors there.

5 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

In hindsight, the only thing I can think of that would have reliably saved Alfred would have been to use the warp staff and send someone to assassinate one of the ballistae up close. But one, that still would have required me to kill all of the armor knights before setting foot inside that death trap like I did, which while wise was tedious, and for all I know, there are even worse hurdles the game has planned for me, and that staff only has three uses.

Well. Too late now. I made my choice. I've gotta live with it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Don't be afraid to use your warp staves. More will come.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Jotari

[Alastor15243]

3 hours ago, Jotari said:

Funny thing here, is that the game is doing exactly what you want it to do really. Imagine how pissed you'd be if the doors closed and you had no idea there were even doors there.

True. Keep in mind I say these things as they happen and I rarely go back and change what I say in light of stuff I've learned after completing the map. These are basically my thoughts as they happen. That said, this solution is still kind of sloppy, and I don't like this game's general tendency to hide crucial post-cutscene information and characters from the preparation screen.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Alastor15243

[Alastor15243]

Thracia Day 16: Chapter 12

Yet again the game pulls the bullshit of telling me what dangers the level has after I've already decided who I'm fielding. This time by telling me that Salem, the dark mage I heard about and saw in Awakening, will use his sleep staff on me if threatened. Honestly, it's like the game expects me to start and reset to compensate for them not figuring out what the player should know before being shown the prep screen!

Actually, that reminds me of a feature I'll get into more detail with when we get to FE7, but which I'm sorely disappointed only showed up in one game: the augury. Personally, giving this game's limitations, I would absolutely love to be able to pay an old lady some gold to get a vision in advance about the curveballs the game plans to throw at me after I've already chosen my team.

That said though, I really like Saias, and his conversation with Mareeta.

Alright, looks like we're dealing with a lot of axe users here. Good, that'll give us some opportunities to get some more axes for Orsin and Halvan.

Bizarrely though, there are two different sprites for these brigands. One where they hold a small axe to the right, and on where they hold a larger axe to the left. The class name is identical, though the ones with bigger axes have a good deal more HP. I didn't notice any other differences, their stats seem to be identical.

...Okay game, it is outrageously shitty how little visual difference there is between a forest tile and a thicket tile when it makes all the difference in the world for mobility. I didn't even notice there were thicket tiles until I saw the weird shapes some bandits were making with their highlighted movement ranges. It's like a tiny shade darker! Come on!

...Sleep staves. That can reach the starting location. From the boss.

Okay. When Salem said “If anyone draws near, I'll use my sleep staff to send them into a deep night's slumber”, I assumed that meant “I'll defend myself non-lethally if I am approached.” I didn't realize it meant “If my Loptian galaxy brain psychically hears a pin drop in the infinite blackness a mile away across a fucking lake while those shitheads I just said I consider truly vile are attacking people to rob them, I'll help said shitheads out by roofie-ing their victims with wild abandon”.

Jesus Christ, the AI in this game just has no consideration for how stupid it can make some people act in-game. Not even a single chapter after the stupidity with Alfred's behavior! And this is the same game where Mareeta and Evayle refuse to counter-attack each other!?

Speaking of which, now I have Mareeta. All on her own. With one vulnerary, and no torch.

...Okay, make that two vulneraries. Thankfully, visiting the house she just came from (implying it's really a village with just one visible house) results in a girl giving her a vulnerary. Alright. So she has plenty of wiggle room before she can be rescued. So I probably don't need to get Karin involved except maybe to conserve uses of that sword of hers.

And there's no indication anywhere how long sleep lasts for. I assumed since there was no timer visible it was just one turn. It is not.

And it also reduces every single one of your stats except for con, luck and HP to 0.

And I have no fucking clue what the threshold is to resist it, if there even is one, because there's no listed hit rate during the sleep staff animation, and no stats listed so I can't tell if it's the same thing as Genealogy!

Near as I can tell, I just have to put up with three of my units randomly being put to sleep for who the fuck knows how long.

Jeeeeeeeesus the timeframe for getting to those villages is scant. Especially when you can't count on anyone you send to still be awake next turn. I just lost two of them, so I'll have to try again. Before I do though, lemme actually check out Mareeta's stats.

Standout red flags are her strength and defense of 3. She'll need serious patching up in order to be serviceable once that fancy prf brave weapon of hers starts wearing out. She has Luna, but I do know there's somehow an event where she can talk to a Shanan impostor and he'll accidentally teach her Astra by giving her generic bullshit advice. Given how it's technically impossible to guarantee an attack will hit, eventually having two offensive procs gives her a lot of potential utility for when I absolutely, positively HAVE to make sure something dies.

Okay, so, re-reading that intro... What exactly was your end goal here, Salem? Assuming it really was the imperial army coming, were you really just going to pick three of them to put to sleep and then just sit there like an idiot, alerting them to the fact that there's somebody nearby?

...It now occurs to me, right after resetting, that I probably should have checked to see which brigands took the villages. If it's only one type that can do that, that would be good to know, but it would also be nice of the game to give literally any indication as to which is which before it's too late.

However, speaking of shit I might as well do now that I'm restarting...

Fuck it. Shitty problems require shitty solutions.

Time to do something truly, truly cheap.

I slap a stamina drink on Safiya, give her the warp staff, have Lithis use my only non-staff torch, and then warp him into the west side of the map, far away from what I can see from the starting area, lighting it the fuck up like a Christmas tree.

And then I look at Salem, and I figure out the actual fucking rules for how sleep staves work, and discover that yes, it is like Genealogy, and you're safe if you have equal or greater magic than the user (in this case, 8).

And then I reset. Getting back all of the resources I used to do all of that.

Completely invalidating the entire premise of what they were using the fog of war for.

I regret infinitely less than nothing.

Curiously though, I think the game saved my battle preparations despite me remembering not doing that. A bit annoying, since I did some stuff I didn't want to save.

...And now for some reason Salem chose not to use the sleep staff on the first turn.

...Please don't tell me this is another “I only do it half the time like I'm fucking Two-Face” thing.

And I visit a house, and I get nothing. Just an old woman saying she's going to die soon, mentioning that she'll see a woman named “Sera” soon enough.

...I just checked the color of the tiny door sprite. I can't go back in. That was all I got. So either Sera is a character exclusive to the gaiden chapter people said I missed, and by missing her I missed the reward here, or Sera is a character I get this chapter, and by visiting that woman before getting her I gave up the opportunity to get the reward without resetting.

I am no longer physically capable of putting it past this game to do the latter.

And my options are either to keep going, wait to find out if I can get Sera here and then restart to get what was in that village, or restart, defend that village from bandits for the entire map, and then save it for Sera on the off chance I can do that.

Fuck it. Let's keep moving.

Jesus Christ. Some of these guys have at least 4 attack speed, due to the randomization of stats for enemies. And until all three uses are used up, I have to move every unit with less than 8 magic while making sure that they wouldn't die next turn if all of their core stats spontaneously dropped to 0. An interesting challenge in theory, if I had more of a means to keep units safe, but with my only means of defending low-magic units being a temporary fix that I can't even guarantee will last the whole time he has uses left, and given that I only even know what the fuck the rules are for defending against the thing because I basically cheated, really this seems like just a mess of dumb luck and perseverance, and that I just have to hope he decides to use all three charges quickly and hope he doesn't take out anyone too useful.

...Alright, Karin died because she got unlucky while I was rushing her to the village. Restarting.

For some reason, Halvan and Callion are consistently Salem's favorite targets, and I can't find anything they have in common. He's not picking on the people with the weakest magic, because all of those level ups with the Ced scroll mean Callion has 3.

OH! AND APPARENTLY THE SECOND SOMEONE FALLS ASLEEP, HALF OF THE ENEMIES CAN STEAL ALL OF THEIR SHIT!

BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THE DIFFERENCE IS BETWEEN THE TWO TYPES OF BANDITS! BOY DID I FAIL A SPOT CHECK!

THE STRONGER ONES HAVE THE STEAL SKILL!

Miraculously, or perhaps the game actually grants you this one tiny dignity, none of Halvan's crusader scrolls were taken.

In fact, they didn't steal any of his good shit! They could easily have stolen his brave axe, but they didn't.

Yep. Given the fact that the other villager yelled at me for abandoning his son, there was literally no reward whatsoever waiting for me in those villages, because I apparently didn't save the green units from the gaiden chapter I missed. I get that the guy's grieving and probably lashing out, but he's still awfully quick to point the finger at someone who never even had the opportunity to save them.

Actually, yeah, this is utterly bizarre. The line makes sense for someone who played the gaiden chapter and failed to save the NPCs, but to somebody who never even got the gaiden chapter? How did word of my failure get around, and what convinced people it was even my mission to fail!? The old lady I get, she's just sad and mourning the loss of a loved one. But what exactly convinced this guy that I was supposed to save them and that I “left [his] boy behind”? Even if the story of the gaiden chapter justifies why this is still your fault even if you miss the chapter, if you don't get the gaiden chapter then you have no way of making sense of any of this. I can imagine Leif standing there going “what the hell did I do?”.

...One of these brigands has an attack speed of 7 and a strength of 15. Anyone in my army with 30 HP or less risks getting bodied by this fucker should Salem put them to sleep. That applies to a grotesquely alarming chunk of my army.

AND HALVAN GOT BODIED BY A DOUBLING BANDIT.

...Okay. So.

...Now that I know there's nothing waiting for me in the villages...

...I'm gonna have to be a bastard and not even save the people inside the villages, because I cannot go that deep into the forest when any unit in my army could become a sitting duck in need of rescue at any time, being pulled through thick forests at the speed of frozen molasses. I have to hold back and see how Salem fucks me over before I work out how to proceed.

Alright, so far so good. I brought a few more units, namely Dagdar and Brighton, just to have some more bodies once my team temporarily becomes “minus three”. Plus, more people to take anyone who falls asleep and carry them to safety behind my “defensive formation”, if I can call it that.

So... wait...

...Salem used the sleep staff on Callion... and it didn't... work?

He's still awake. He's not even dismounted, which I think has to mean that it didn't just instantly wear off (which would be scary for if I tried to use it, that it can just critically fail and not even last one enemy phase), it just... missed.

...Oh right. Staves can miss. And I guess that includes this one.

...Which means it didn't even waste a use and I still have to wait for three of my guys to fall asleep.

Ohhhh... Lithis got a second movement level... I really hope I don't have to give up this run...

Oh, so now we get to see this Tina that Pan and Salem mentioned! She's talking to Salem, giving him a nice midnight snack for his hard work knocking out the victims of people he hates.

And then Tina mentions her sister that she's worried about.

...Her sister named Safiya.

...Game.

Game.

Game.

If this is your way of telling me that I need to bring Safiya on this mission...

HALFWAY FUCKING THROUGH IT...

...The comment section of the 2018 YouTube Rewind would not be able to give word to the contempt I would have for your putrescent fucking soul.

...It's turn 6 now, and I only have one sleeping unit, Dagdar. Everyone else is awake. For some reason he's stopped using the sleep staff. Now that you mention it, I've never seen him use it more than twice. Maybe I've gotten lucky and he won't use it anymore?

...I just had to tempt fate.

Callion's down, fast asleep. But thankfully at this point all of the enemies at the starting area are gone.

I'm taking them with me through the forest, because it seems like an insanely stupid idea not to. I don't know how long they're going to stay asleep, and I don't know if reinforcements are coming from behind.

...And now the last sleep staff use has been used. On Halvan.

I also secured Mareeta once I got tired of wasting uses on that awesome sword. She thankfully has a ludicrous PCC of 5, so it should be trivially easy to score some kills for her with some scrolls to get her strength and defense up. Really though, I apparently only need to worry about her defense, because her growths are absolutely ludicrous. It's like if Nino had a personal 60 use brave weapon and the ability to hit 50% crit every second attack. At base.

Unfortunately I forgot about the Vantage manual I had an opportunity to steal from the bandit leader, but it's not a big loss. Not when you missed the opportunity to get the only unit who can really take advantage of the skill.

...I'm starting to think that the sleep staff might be a “until the map is over or you use a restore staff” thing. Which would be... horrible. Infinite range, limited means of defense, and a completely arbitrary and randomized time of usage...

...Sorry, at the mere thought of that I literally just expelled all the air I possibly could out of my lungs while making a mix of wheezing, whining and choking noises.

I think I made the sound you make when your soul tries to escape your body.

Curiously, the message for saying “yes” to buying something at the shop and the message for saying “no” is the same. “Thank you kindly. Anything else?”. I think every other game in the series makes sure the “no” response is just “then is there anything else I can help you with?” or something along those lines.

A bunch of reinforcements came on the west side of the map, but since Mareeta got rescued and the bridge was out, they had nowhere to go until I dropped Mareeta on a mountain with four crusader scrolls and the paragon sword. She gained several levels, and is decently on her way to being a reliable unit.

...So, Dorius tells Leif that dawn's breaking, lifting the fog.

...So why is that grounds for the scary Galzus music to start playing?

...Better get back to making sure the sleeping units aren't too exposed in case the game decides to start sending reinforcements at my rear guard.

And in the meantime, I'm going to rush to capture Salem because obviously I'm not going to kill the guy, even if the game turns out to be so much of an asshole that I can only recruit him with Safiya.

And due to another deceptively plain-like tile, I have to send all of my mounted units back around the lake because I thought I could send the riders west without dismounting them, but no, that's not an open space to the west of the building.

Curious. Mareeta has nothing to say to Leif or Nanna, the two people I was sure she would have something to say to. And they don't have anything to say to her.

But, regardless, Finn and Fergus manage to use capturing hit-and-run strategies to get Salem, and at long last, the map is clear. An infuriating beginning, followed by an incredibly tedious end. But it's over.

Augustus is remarkably surprised to find that this is a group of “good” bandits after working with one for a while in Dagdar.

Ah, so now Mareeta talks with Leif! Fair enough!

…

...I didn't get Salem.

I just checked to confirm, I opened the next map, I checked to see if he was just an auto-deploy like Callion was...

...No dice.

I didn't get Salem.

Either I was supposed to capture him before sunrise, hence the comment of “At any rate, it's already dawn, so let's leave them be and get going”, or I actually, genuinely was supposed to bring Safiya, and the game had the audacity to only tell me this several agonizingly stressful turns into the map.

I fucking hate this map regardless of which it is, because the former has only the most tenuous relationship with real-world logic, and the latter can go to Hell.

But I'm seriously half of a mind to restart this chapter for Salem, even if it costs Lithis his movement level up. That's twice in a row that I've missed opportunities to get mages. Twice in a row. In as many chapters. I can't go through this entire game missing every single recruitable mage except for Asbel! That's going to get me screwed over at some point! And I wanted a dark mage with staff utility! That could have been cool! Hell, it would have been cool to have more than two staff users!

...Fuck it. I'll leave it up to you guys.

Do I restart the map to get Salem?

Or do I press on, living with the “consequences” of my “failure”?

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

And I visit a house, and I get nothing. Just an old woman saying she's going to die soon, mentioning that she'll see a woman named “Sera” soon enough.

The houses would've given you a Silence staff and the Heim Scroll +30% Mag +10% Lck -10% Def. In addition, if Olwen (recruited in the gaiden you missed) visited the house Mareeta starts at, you'd get a Magic Ring. 

 

1 hour ago, Alastor15243 said:

Do I restart the map to get Salem?

Or do I press on, living with the “consequences” of my “failure”?

You didn't miss just Salem, you missed another gaiden chapter by letting the fog clear up. Said gaiden has some real niceties too.

 

 

If you absolutely want to make it much less difficult on a replay, just S Drink Safiya back, Warp someone to capture Salem, and then have Karin ferry Leif to seize. Let everyone else eat the bandits for EXP as desired. Sleep is worth having, it doesn't work on enemies on thrones/gates, and but it lets you capture anything else with utter ease, including mounted units who will be forced to dismount.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[Eltosian Kadath]

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...I'm starting to think that the sleep staff might be a “until the map is over or you use a restore staff” thing. Which would be... horrible. Infinite range, limited means of defense, and a completely arbitrary and randomized time of usage...

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

...Please don't tell me this is another “I only do it half the time like I'm fucking Two-Face” thing.

Right on both counts, he only has a 50% chance to act, and sleep lasts until the end of the map or you use a restore staff.

 

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Her sister named Safiya.

...Game.

Game.

Game.

If this is your way of telling me that I need to bring Safiya on this mission...

HALFWAY FUCKING THROUGH IT...

No, this is not a hint for this map.

 

3 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

 

Yep. Given the fact that the other villager yelled at me for abandoning his son, there was literally no reward whatsoever waiting for me in those villages, because I apparently didn't save the green units from the gaiden chapter I missed. I get that the guy's grieving and probably lashing out, but he's still awfully quick to point the finger at someone who never even had the opportunity to save them.

Actually, yeah, this is utterly bizarre. The line makes sense for someone who played the gaiden chapter and failed to save the NPCs, but to somebody who never even got the gaiden chapter? How did word of my failure get around, and what convinced people it was even my mission to fail!? The old lady I get, she's just sad and mourning the loss of a loved one. But what exactly convinced this guy that I was supposed to save them and that I “left [his] boy behind”? Even if the story of the gaiden chapter justifies why this is still your fault even if you miss the chapter, if you don't get the gaiden chapter then you have no way of making sense of any of this. I can imagine Leif standing there going “what the hell did I do?”.

I mean you did just liberate the castle they were being held in, and with them being executed under Lief's nose if you didn't get the gaiden. Its mostly the player that missed the gaiden that is out of the loop here.

 

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...So, Dorius tells Leif that dawn's breaking, lifting the fog.

...So why is that grounds for the scary Galzus music to start playing?

The game is cluing you into the fact that you missed the gaiden by playing "the bad music".

 

4 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

...Fuck it. I'll leave it up to you guys.

Do I restart the map to get Salem?

Or do I press on, living with the “consequences” of my “failure”?

You gave up on this being iron man a while ago, so go follow Interdimensional Observer's advice instead. You miss a lot if you miss the gaiden, all of which I will include in a spoiler box below if you want to know, or don't want to know

Spoiler

Salem

A healer with incredibly useful unique staves

The only means of getting a dancer

Another thief

A sword that grants the wielder charm

A mediocre swordsman

Without looking up some advice, some of the loot below will likely be lost

A second warp staff (although I can't imagine you actually getting it without a guide)

Two kights proof (although one is as esoteric as the warp staff)

A shield ring

An accost manual

an armor slayer

and a fortify staff

 

 

On a funny note if you miss both the gaidens the long dark night of Thracia, a jokey name for the three fog of war chapters in a row that happens when you get both, would be cut exceedingly short.

 

On a side note I did play a little further on my Thracia Ironman run while I waited for Vestaria Saga to download and install, and got through chapter 12, with a Halvan death on this chapter. That was entirely due to my own combined stinginess and cowardice, I could have easily captured Salem the turn before he got slept and ganked if I warped in Finn for the quad brave spear capture, or hadn't spent an extra turn healing Fergus when he only needed one of his brave swords to hit, and only risked death on the single digit chance of a double miss and enemy hit (and also higher than 1 poison damage chance on top of that low percentage). Did get the gaiden though, and walked Lief the whole way around.

 

[Alastor15243]

@Eltosian Kadath I looked at that list of shit that gaiden chapter gives you like I picked the wrong door on the Monty Hall problem, and I'm just standing here wondering how it's physically possible to create a game seemingly never intended to be played a first time.

[Flere210]

I think it's jntended to be played whit the mindset of the protagonist of "The hero is overpowered but Overly Cautionus".

[Jotari]

The Gaiden is totally worth it. The thief comes with a pretty sweet 8 build at base which I doubt you've exceeded with Lifis yet.

[Alastor15243]

22 minutes ago, Jotari said:

The Gaiden is totally worth it. The thief comes with a pretty sweet 8 build at base which I doubt you've exceeded with Lifis yet.

Matched, actually. And Lithis has 8 move if I keep this file.

I'm torn. I really want all that stuff, but I'm also really curious how the game is balanced for people who don't know the conditions for getting all the goodies the Gaiden chapters throw at you. Because that seems like an absolutely ridiculous amount of resources to lock behind a time limit you can't even guess is there until you fail it, and can still easily not notice is a thing due to how the chapter ends. It honestly feels like merely knowing the Gaiden chapters exist and how to get them makes the game massively easier, and... I'm not sure I like that, game design wise.

 

 

[Jotari]

22 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Matched, actually. And Lithis has 8 move if I keep this file.

I'm torn. I really want all that stuff, but I'm also really curious how the game is balanced for people who don't know the conditions for getting all the goodies the Gaiden chapters throw at you. Because that seems like an absolutely ridiculous amount of resources to lock behind a time limit you can't even guess is there until you fail it, and can still easily not notice is a thing due to how the chapter ends. It honestly feels like merely knowing the Gaiden chapters exist and how to get them makes the game massively easier, and... I'm not sure I like that, game design wise.

 

 

It's Thraica. You're going to have to  grow comfortable cheesing chapters. This particular Gaiden chapter you're potentially missing I've nominated as the worst designed map in the entire series.

[Alastor15243]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

It's Thraica. You're going to have to  grow comfortable cheesing chapters. This particular Gaiden chapter you're potentially missing I've nominated as the worst designed map in the entire series.

And like that, I'm sold. I'm taking new years eve off, but I'll be redoing the chapter. I've gotta see if anything can top the shitheadery of Foreign Land and Sky.

[Shadow Mir]

2 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

I've gotta see if anything can top the shitheadery of Foreign Land and Sky.

Far as I'm concerned. that ain't even close to the worst this series has served up. If you want Eyvel back, you better prepare yourself for one of the shining examples of atrocious map design this series has to offer.

Edited December 31, 2019 by Shadow Mir

[Alastor15243]

6 minutes ago, Shadow Mir said:

Far as I'm concerned. that ain't even close to the worst this series has served up.

That map crossed a line you do not ever, ever cross. Under no circumstances is it acceptable to lie to the player about how to win and then throw an ambush spawn at them to punish them for doing what you told them to. If Three Houses didn't have divine pulse, anyone who suggested that end-of-map twist would probably have been thrown out a window. But of course the game does have design pulse, which apparently convinced the devs that bad map design doesn't exist anymore as long as you can't lose.