Putting as many characters as possible on one family tree

[Jotari]

The rules are simple. By showing only possible pairings that can result in (blood) children, how many characters can be put on a family tree? The answer is, like, over 50. Almost 70 if we include unnamed parents that are included for the sake of siblings.

I spent way too much time making this XD I think this is the largest possible number of characters you can get. Every character capable of reproducing is doing so while Corrin and Robin are marrying 2nd gen units. Pairs of siblings are prioritized to extend further. The only character relation I can think of not shown here is Tiki being Naga's daughter, but Tiki can't be added to the tree as she can only marry Robin and if Robin marries Tiki then he's off the tree. Anna being sister of other Annas runs into the same problem as do Yen'Fey and Say'ri. Though you could make a family tree entirely made of Anna. If the only blood relation rule is removed and adoption counts, then Aversa can be put down under Validar's kid, and Hayto could be added to replace a Fates character to bring along Fuga. But then if adoption is fair game, I'd sort of have to show how Mikoto and Arete were step parents of the Nohr and Hoshido siblings which would make things look really messy.

If there's any way you can think of to make this monstrosity bigger, do share.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Jotari

[Punished Dayni]

Well, one thing is you can't pair Selena with Ryoma legally. But Caeldori with Shiro would allow for both on the tree. And you could do so with the other Fates kids to extend it futher, but I can see why not.

Hayato as Fuga's son could also extend it a little if we could find a way to fit him on. And I have a way, pair Camilla with Takumi and Sakura with Hayato. Then, Xander's free to pair with Selena as well, extending both trees. Then Ryoma pairs with whoever because I don't see an obvious option to extend things. Well, Camilla can pair with him instend of Takumi, but either or will do for this.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Dayni

[Jotari]

8 minutes ago, Dayni said:

Well, one thing is you can't pair Selena with Ryoma legally. But Caeldori with Shiro would allow for both on the tree. And you could do so with the other Fates kids to extend it futher, but I can see why not.

Caeldori and Shiro don't produce a child though. You're right though, Selena can't pair with Ryoma, so I'll need to fix that one.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Jotari

[Punished Dayni]

4 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Caeldori and Shiro don't produce a child though.

Hence my supposing why not. I kept it up though as it was part of my thoughts on it.

Thoughts on the other suggestion? Seeing as Hayato's adopted, I wouldn't be surprised if Fuga was never married (as opposed to the currently in Rev)

Edited February 1, 2022 by Dayni

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Dayni said:

Hence my supposing why not. I kept it up though as it was part of my thoughts on it.

Thoughts on the other suggestion?

I have ammended my previous comment and am working on the work around now. Though Hayoto won't make the cut because genetics.

[Punished Dayni]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I have ammended my previous comment and am working on the work around now. Though Hayoto won't make the cut because genetics.

The point I thought was for maximising how many were on the tree and as Fuga is his father I was counting him for this. So he's discounted due to being an adoptive father for our purposes?

Edit: Seen the comment. Understood.

Edited February 1, 2022 by Dayni

[indigoasis]

I've always thought genealogy stuff like this is so damn cool to see. I love looking at family trees to see how people relate to each other. That's why I like the pairing mechanics in Fire Emblem so much.

Oh, I just realized you could add in Marth and Caeda since they're Chrom and Lucina's ancestors, so that's at least two more for the tree.

wait, nvm, only blood children, smh. guess that'll have to wait until another tree is grown

Edited February 1, 2022 by indigoasis

[Jotari]

24 minutes ago, Dayni said:

The point I thought was for maximising how many were on the tree and as Fuga is his father I was counting him for this. So he's discounted due to being an adoptive father for our purposes?

Edit: Seen the comment. Understood.

It's been updated with the fix. Went with Azama for Sakura, I'm not into shipping so most of the random pairings are based on class continuity of the child.

22 minutes ago, indigoasis said:

I've always thought genealogy stuff like this is so damn cool to see. I love looking at family trees to see how people relate to each other. That's why I like the pairing mechanics in Fire Emblem so much.

Oh, I just realized you could add in Marth and Caeda since they're Chrom and Lucina's ancestors, so that's at least two more for the tree.

wait, nvm, only blood children, smh. guess that'll have to wait until another tree is grown

Imagine if they'd thrown a time travelling Genealogy of the Holy War character into the mix. Then things could have gotten really crazy.

[indigoasis]

13 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Imagine if they'd thrown a time travelling Genealogy of the Holy War character into the mix. Then things could have gotten really crazy.

That reminds me, I've seen the idea thrown around elsewhere on the internet that Sigurd (and therefore, Seliph) could potentially be another ancestor to Chrom (since Tiki remarked on Chrom's likeness to one of his ancestors, which could actually match fairly well to Sigurd if you think about it; the issues with that are we don't know the when [because FE4/5 are set before Shadow Dragon and Mystery, but I don't think we know how many years before] and where [how tf would Tiki be on Jugdral? Was it bring-your-daughter-to-work day for Naga or something?] of who she's really talking about, but it's most likely the First Exalt anyway).

[Ouzyxol]

2 hours ago, indigoasis said:

That reminds me, I've seen the idea thrown around elsewhere on the internet that Sigurd (and therefore, Seliph) could potentially be another ancestor to Chrom (since Tiki remarked on Chrom's likeness to one of his ancestors, which could actually match fairly well to Sigurd if you think about it

Meh, maybe.  Decent theory, I suppose.

Quote

the issues with that are we don't know the when [because FE4/5 are set before Shadow Dragon and Mystery, but I don't think we know how many years before]

I recall it being about 1,000 years?  I don't have a source on that, at the moment, but I think it's a thousand year span between the end of Genealogy and the start of Shadow Dragon.

Quote

and where [how tf would Tiki be on Jugdral? Was it bring-your-daughter-to-work day for Naga or something?]

Jugdral is east of Archenea, and presumably west of Valenita (if that world is spherical).  And maybe it's the unmentioned landmass to the east of Ylisse you can see the edge of on the Awakening world map.

Quote

of who she's really talking about, but it's most likely the First Exalt anyway).

Anri, maybe?  He's Marth's ancestor (but not quite, as Marth is his brother's descendant), so he'd be Chrom's ancestor, too.

[Eltosian Kadath]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

 

If there's any way you can think of to make this monstrosity bigger, do share.

Theoretically you could link Chrom to King Marth somewhere up the chain, given Tiki specifically stating Chrom is related to Marth

Spoiler

 

Robin:
You were referring to THE King Marth, right? The man from two millennia ago? Well, he's a distant relation to Chrom, is he not?

Tiki:
That is correct.

Robin:
So, I was wondering, wouldn't Chrom resemble him more than me?

Tiki:
Perhaps because Chrom is not like Marth. He is much more direct, and committed to what he believes is right. Chrom might more resemble a different ancestor, from the age I was born in. Another great man in their line, from 1000 years before Marth... But the Marth of my time was wise and fair, and won hearts with his kindness.

Which could then add a set of links for

 

[Anri's Father]-----------------|---------------------[Anri's Mother]\

                   |-------------------------------------|

                Anri                  Marcellus( Anri's brother) -----|----[Marcellus's Wife]

                                                                    Cornellius (Marcellus's Son) ----------|---------------Liza (Cornellius's Wife)

Mostyn--|--(Unknown Queen of Talys)                        |--------------------------------------------------------------------|                                           

          Caede--------------------------|------------------------------ Marth                                                                   Elice           

                   (2000 years of ancestor of Chrom)

 

I was tempted to add Merric as a husband to Elice to this as well, although the lack of any child of theirs being hinted at in any of the endings (even their marriage is only insinuated at best...)

 

6 hours ago, indigoasis said:

[how tf would Tiki be on Jugdral? Was it bring-your-daughter-to-work day for Naga or something?]

The Naga talked about in Jugdral is explicitly described as having the appearance of a young maiden, so Jugdral's Naga may have been Tiki all along...(I mean they hint at the fire god Salamand being Bantu by describing him as an old man...)

 

6 hours ago, indigoasis said:

of who she's really talking about, but it's most likely the First Exalt anyway).

3 hours ago, Ouzyxol said:

Anri, maybe?  He's Marth's ancestor (but not quite, as Marth is his brother's descendant), so he'd be Chrom's ancestor, too.

Neither of these make sense given what is said. I included the Tiki quote above in a spoiler box, but she is specifically describing someone from 1000 years before Marth. Anri is Marth's great Uncle, unless all of his family lives for multiple hundred years that simply isn't possible. As for the Exalt, they are described as living 1000 years before Chrom (so rough 1000 years after Marth).

 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The Naga talked about in Jugdral is explicitly described as having the appearance of a young maiden, so Jugdral's Naga may have been Tiki all along...(I mean they hint at the fire god Salamand being Bantu by describing him as an old man...)

Tiki wasn't just young during the miracle of Darna, she was an infant. And it's possible she wasn't even born yet. Tiki is said to be over 1000 years old in the Archanea games, and the Miracle of Darna happened 1,130 years before Marth embarks.

 

 

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

Tiki wasn't just young during the miracle of Darna, she was an infant. And it's possible she wasn't even born yet. Tiki is said to be over 1000 years old in the Archanea games, and the Miracle of Darna happened 1,130 years before Marth embarks.

She does describe 1000 years before Marth as the age she was born into, but who knows what time period an age might be for her, plus her being able to recognize Chrom as similar to someone 1000 years before Marth hints that she was at minimum at a child-like level of development at that point.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

She does describe 1000 years before Marth as the age she was born into, but who knows what time period an age might be for her, plus her being able to recognize Chrom as similar to someone 1000 years before Marth hints that she was at minimum at a child-like level of development at that point.

She doesn't say she has any personal experience, and she definitely doesn't suggest its from a completely different continent.

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 minute ago, Jotari said:

She doesn't say she has any personal experience,

Maybe, but she elaborates that the way she think Robin resembles Marth is

Quote

Robin:
I see. So when you say I resemble Marth, you weren't talking about my appearance.

Tiki:
No. I was referring to your soul. An aura of kindness and goodness surrounds you, Robin. Just as it did wise King Marth.

are things that are difficult to learn without personal experience. She describes Chrom as resembling this unknown ancestor during this same conversation, and this is kinda hinting that these sort of more nebulous aspects are the things she is describing.

 

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

she definitely doesn't suggest its from a completely different continent.

Nor does she suggest its from the same continent either. Its worth noting that you meet Tiki on an entirely different continent from Ylisse/Archanea.

[Jotari]

35 minutes ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Maybe, but she elaborates that the way she think Robin resembles Marth is

are things that are difficult to learn without personal experience. She describes Chrom as resembling this unknown ancestor during this same conversation, and this is kinda hinting that these sort of more nebulous aspects are the things she is describing.

 

Nor does she suggest its from the same continent either. Its worth noting that you meet Tiki on an entirely different continent from Ylisse/Archanea.

She's also talking from the time in which she was born, not from when she was young, from the time in which she was born. To put that into perspective, Tiki only has 10 years of memory at the time of Mystery of the Emblem. Because she has spent over 99% of her life asleep.

[Eltosian Kadath]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

She's also talking from the time in which she was born, not from when she was young, from the time in which she was born. To put that into perspective, Tiki only has 10 years of memory at the time of Mystery of the Emblem. Because she has spent over 99% of her life asleep.

Looking a bit more into it

Spoiler

Xane:
It's a dragon graveyard in the mountains of Macedon. There, the earth dragons sleep. A long time ago... Thousands of years ago in fact... The mighty earth dragons lost their minds and attacked the humans. 'Course, the humans barely stood a chance. Most were annihilated, and the rest pushed into the desolate corners of the continent. And then... the divine dragon Naga, strongest of them all, waged a war for humanity. It was a fierce battle, but Naga emerged victorious in the end, and sealed the earth dragons below Dolhr, in a deep sleep. And so that the power of the seal would not wither, she created the "shield of the five orbs" and placed it in the Fane of Raman.

Marth:
I see... I understand now. In other words, our guardian deity Naga depicted in legend was the divine dragon that saved humanity. But then, what about the divine sword Falchion?

Xane:
Naga took pity on you humans, with no way of protecting yourselves, so she created it from one of her fangs. Then, together with the shield, she sealed it in the fane, and had the remainin' dragon houses watch over humanity. She put the newly born Tiki to sleep and thus ended her 5,000-year life. 'Cause of all this, Gotoh's tryin' his best to carry out Naga's order.

This statement from Xane seems to imply Tiki was sealed thousands of years ago...Now looking at the quote about Tiki only have 10 years of memory,

Spoiler

However, Bantu, the king's servant,
changed his mind after centuries of watching Tiki,
waking her from her slumber and whisking her away.
That's why Tiki's memories are just the ten years she lived as a human...
"Poor Tiki..."

only 10 years of memory, but Bantu awakened her after centuries of watching, add into this some of Bantu's support conversation

Spoiler

Bantu:
Hohoho, I'm glad to hear it. I've honed this technique for centuries, all to fix Tiki's disdain for vegetables...

Chris:
What, for centuries?!

and it seems that Tiki was awake enough to let Bantu know she disdained vegetables centuries before Marth was alive. Some of that time being awake was also clearly during the events of Shadow Dragon, so clearly that 10 years of memories wasn't all in one sitting.

To summarize, Tiki was put to sleep thousands of years before Marth, at some vague period centuries after being put to sleep, and centuries before Marth was alive, Tiki was awake, and it isn't the only time she would be awake. It is all very vague, but perhaps some of that time awake was during the lifetime of this ancestor 1000 before Marth was alive, although she still considered 1000 years ago to be during the same "age" as her birth, which was multiple thousands of years ago

Side note, looking over the translation of original Mystery of the Emblem on the main site seems to imply Tiki was born simultaneously approximately 1000 years ago, and 7000 years ago, which is why I am only looking at the New Mystery translation, as it at least resembles consistency with its vagueness.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

Looking a bit more into it

  Reveal hidden contents

Xane:
It's a dragon graveyard in the mountains of Macedon. There, the earth dragons sleep. A long time ago... Thousands of years ago in fact... The mighty earth dragons lost their minds and attacked the humans. 'Course, the humans barely stood a chance. Most were annihilated, and the rest pushed into the desolate corners of the continent. And then... the divine dragon Naga, strongest of them all, waged a war for humanity. It was a fierce battle, but Naga emerged victorious in the end, and sealed the earth dragons below Dolhr, in a deep sleep. And so that the power of the seal would not wither, she created the "shield of the five orbs" and placed it in the Fane of Raman.

Marth:
I see... I understand now. In other words, our guardian deity Naga depicted in legend was the divine dragon that saved humanity. But then, what about the divine sword Falchion?

Xane:
Naga took pity on you humans, with no way of protecting yourselves, so she created it from one of her fangs. Then, together with the shield, she sealed it in the fane, and had the remainin' dragon houses watch over humanity. She put the newly born Tiki to sleep and thus ended her 5,000-year life. 'Cause of all this, Gotoh's tryin' his best to carry out Naga's order.

This statement from Xane seems to imply Tiki was sealed thousands of years ago...Now looking at the quote about Tiki only have 10 years of memory,

  Reveal hidden contents

However, Bantu, the king's servant,
changed his mind after centuries of watching Tiki,
waking her from her slumber and whisking her away.
That's why Tiki's memories are just the ten years she lived as a human...
"Poor Tiki..."

only 10 years of memory, but Bantu awakened her after centuries of watching, add into this some of Bantu's support conversation

  Reveal hidden contents

Bantu:
Hohoho, I'm glad to hear it. I've honed this technique for centuries, all to fix Tiki's disdain for vegetables...

Chris:
What, for centuries?!

and it seems that Tiki was awake enough to let Bantu know she disdained vegetables centuries before Marth was alive. Some of that time being awake was also clearly during the events of Shadow Dragon, so clearly that 10 years of memories wasn't all in one sitting.

To summarize, Tiki was put to sleep thousands of years before Marth, at some vague period centuries after being put to sleep, and centuries before Marth was alive, Tiki was awake, and it isn't the only time she would be awake. It is all very vague, but perhaps some of that time awake was during the lifetime of this ancestor 1000 before Marth was alive, although she still considered 1000 years ago to be during the same "age" as her birth, which was multiple thousands of years ago

Side note, looking over the translation of original Mystery of the Emblem on the main site seems to imply Tiki was born simultaneously approximately 1000 years ago, and 7000 years ago, which is why I am only looking at the New Mystery translation, as it at least resembles consistency with its vagueness.

Either way, nothing suggesting Tiki ever took a trip to Jugdral to meet Heim or Bladdi and the like. They probably intended for the line about her birth to be a reference to someone, but the it just doesn't work to actually fit into anything obvious. So until they make more Archanea prequels or Jugdral games, it's left to the realms of headcannon.

[Eltosian Kadath]

2 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Either way, nothing suggesting Tiki ever took a trip to Jugdral to meet Heim or Bladdi and the like. They probably intended for the line about her birth to be a reference to someone, but the it just doesn't work to actually fit into anything obvious. So until they make more Archanea prequels or Jugdral games, it's left to the realms of headcannon.

The creators knew what they were hinting at when the only two of the dragons Lewyn/Holsety physically described in Jugdral were the god of light Naga, and the god of fire Salamand with a description matching Tiki and Bantu. They knew what they were hinting at by having Tiki talk about characters around 1000 years before Marth. If it is headcannon, it is by deliberate baiting from the creators.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Eltosian Kadath said:

The creators knew what they were hinting at when the only two of the dragons Lewyn/Holsety physically described in Jugdral were the god of light Naga, and the god of fire Salamand with a description matching Tiki and Bantu. They knew what they were hinting at by having Tiki talk about characters around 1000 years before Marth. If it is headcannon, it is by deliberate baiting from the creators.

1. Forseti also calls Naga Naga though, and he would have no reason to lie to Seliph about Naga's identity when Seliph has no concept who Tiki and Naga are beyond how the miracle of Darna directly relates to him. And more important than all that is that Loptyr himself directly refers to Naga.

2. That was not a description of Tiki. Naga was said to take the form of a young maiden. Tiki at the time would have been a baby no matter what way you slice it. Even the Archanean version of Tiki that existed when Genealogy was made didn't fit Tiki's description as she is still very much a child and not a young Maiden in Shadow Dragon and Mystery of the Emblem.

3. The character Genealogy was named was Naga, not Tiki. It just makes no sense to call the character Naga, after the established character called Naga, but then expect people to know that it is actually not Naga and that Kaga lied and it is Tiki even though there is nothing to suggest that. Nor does it make sense to retcon that change almost twenty years later with a single obscure line that doesn't even suggest that.

4. Why would Naga send her baby to deal with Loptyr?

5. Kaga refers to Naga as Naga in his interviews on notes in the game. Never does he suggest it's actually baby Tiki disguised as her mother.

6. Awakening got, like, so much wrong when it came to referencing stuff in the previous games.

The only way any of this works is if the one responsible for the Miracle of Darna was actually a time traveling Tiki after she takes on the mantle of Naga in the Future Past timeline or some such scenario, but that doesn't work because Tiki hasn't taken on the title of Naga by the time of Awakening in which she makes this reference. As I've said, maybe they did intend that line to be a reference to someone, but it just plain doesn't work with the established continuity.

Edited February 2, 2022 by Jotari

[indigoasis]

I think my idea of it being bring-your-daughter-to-work day for Naga still stands. It's the only way Tiki would have seen all the crusaders (including Baldr if he really is one of Chrom's ancestors). That would assume Tiki was cognizant as an infant, though.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, indigoasis said:

I think my idea of it being bring-your-daughter-to-work day for Naga still stands. It's the only way Tiki would have seen all the crusaders (including Baldr if he really is one of Chrom's ancestors). That would assume Tiki was cognizant as an infant, though.

But there is no reason to assume she saw any of the crusaders. The hero she talks about could just as well have been from Archanea. Not to mention just pure logestics means the crusaders are the ancestors of literally everyone in Chrom's time (unless there has never been any connection between Jugdral and the rest of the world).

[Emperor Hardin]

This topic is somewhat old, but its still on the  first page, so I guess I can comment?

On 2/1/2022 at 2:54 PM, Jotari said:

 If the only blood relation rule is removed and adoption counts, then Aversa can be put down under Validar's kid,

Anyhow Aversa clearly states to Chrom, whilst she views Validar like stepfather, Validar doesn't view her as family and to him their relationship is pure business. Hence why she calls him "Master Validar." After the spotpass stuff, Aversa stopped viewing Validar as a father figure altogether. 

Its why the wiki doesn't list the two characters as related.

[NightKnight77]

A bit late, but if Robin marries Priam and Morgan marries one of Chrom's daughters, you could fit Ike on there.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, NightKnight77 said:

A bit late, but if Robin marries Priam and Morgan marries one of Chrom's daughters, you could fit Ike on there.

Ike isn't Priam's father though. And Morgan and Lucina or Cynthia don't produce a child. The tree could be filled out by giving a random spouse to every 2nd gen character, but that's not actually expanding the blood lines.

Edited April 12, 2022 by Jotari