Which Fire Emblems could use an Echoes remake next?

[Yexin]

imho Genealogy and Thracia are the games that need a graphical and mechanical improvement the most, hands down
by this i don't mean they should be remade and distorted to the point they're completely different games, far from it

the Elibe duology is more than fine, they still look and play great, same goes for FE8

PoR and RD could use a remaster instead of a remake, they're still perfectly playable games, and also they could add support convos in RD even without remaking the whole game

Edited July 27, 2022 by Yexin

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Worked for Old Mystery.

Not really. Combining them into one meant cutting the best country (Pyrathi) and the best character (Darros). He never had a chance to become sail...

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

Love the absolute dorkiness of this line after the previous well thought comment that validates me personally (thank you for that), but I'm sorry to say my inner pedant feels compelled to point out that quintessence is mentioned in Genealogy of the Holy War too.

Also, Three Houses gave us Ferdinand von Quintessence. The localizers just forgot to translate "Aegir".

On 7/26/2022 at 10:44 AM, Jotari said:

You're taking future titles to be Shadows of [Continent], but that's not what the game is called in Japanese, so it's highly unlikely to be the branding title. Shadows of Valentia is Echoes Another Hero King. So if there is anything that can be taken from the title as a branding, it's the Echoes, which is present in both English and Japanese. I doubt we'll be getting Fire Emblem Memories: Another Dynastic Crestfest, as the Another is probably a throwback to the original title of Gaiden.

Perhaps the Japanese names can follow one trend, and the International names another? It's been pretty common within the series as of late, for titles to get changed overseas. And while we could get more "Echoes" games, I'm just kind of miffed at the tendency of a fanbase to read a subtitle (supertitle?) and assume it's gonna become a recurring thing. Like Pokemon fans assuming each region is gonna get its own "Let's Go" game. The devs aren't as farsighted in coming up with these titles as we think they are.

16 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I wouldn't be against the decision, but decades of seeing people create Ike's sprite in GBA ROM hacks has kind of cooled me off on the novelty. I wouldn't be surprised if three different people have reached different stages of production of Path of Radiance demade into a GBA rom hack. Plus the original 3D work is already done, if the goal is to churn out remakes in between major, new fire emblem releases, then the remaster route is a more efficient choice in terms of development resources. Hey, if they just put up official ROMs of FE9 and 10, sell them for twenty bucks a pop on modern Nintendo hardware. Or have a playable rom of the originals as a bonus extra for the remake, IS can go whichever direction they like. I'll take FE10 in Shadow Dragon's engine missing half the content if it meant preserving the original at the same time.

While the core gameplay, characters, artstyle, and story in Tellius are all strong... the games could really use some polish. The models, especially in PoR, are as primitive as might be expected from the series' first outing. The cutscenes could use a refresh, and the voice acting... honestly, redub it all (with apologies to Lani Minella). Finally, adding QoL stuff like universal danger ranges, in-battle combat window (PoR), ability to skip map animations (PoR), and ability to skip whole phases would be not just desirable, but almost certainly expected for current-day FE releases.

[Shadow Mir]

19 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

I like all of these ideas. If they can take that same approach they did with Echoes to FE4, I think that's the best thing for that game. Don't change what makes the game unique, lean into it and hire staff that loves the game. 

I disagree, largely because it's a highly risky maneuver (largely because FE4 is either love-it-or-hate-it; I have not seen much of a middle ground on the subject of that game). Sure, you satisfy the people that already loved it, but you risk alienating everyone else. Also, I do not care for "preserving the original" when what makes it unique also makes it nigh unplayable.

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Not really. Combining them into one meant cutting the best country (Pyrathi) and the best character (Darros). He never had a chance to become sail...

Pyrathi is a henious stain on Marth's honour.  Clearly Old Mystery was the offical history Altea wrote about to cover it up.

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

The devs aren't as farsighted in coming up with these titles as we think they are.

Or...near sighted (no that's not right but I can't think of an appropriate opposite), because I'm still questioning, if Echoes wasn't intended to denote a subseries then what the hell is it meant to refer to?

4 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

While the core gameplay, characters, artstyle, and story in Tellius are all strong... the games could really use some polish. The models, especially in PoR, are as primitive as might be expected from the series' first outing. The cutscenes could use a refresh, and the voice acting... honestly, redub it all (with apologies to Lani Minella). Finally, adding QoL stuff like universal danger ranges, in-battle combat window (PoR), ability to skip map animations (PoR), and ability to skip whole phases would be not just desirable, but almost certainly expected for current-day FE releases.

That's kind of what I was getting at before, though I think I conveyed it poorly. Many people seem to think the GBA games need "remakes" while the Tellius games just need "remasters", despite Path of Radiance being a much more incomplete game. This isn't about age, as Sacred Stones and Path of Radiance were made concurrently on the same console generation. There just seems to be a notion that if something isn't in 3D, then it isn't proper, and consequently if something is in 3D, then it's fine, even if it's kind of archaic 3D. 

I'd be happy for any Fire Emblem remake as IS has me wrapped around their little finger and I'd  my any game they squeeze out, and probably like it. But I don't think there's any real need to remake anything outside of Jugdral (though I would like to see Mystery localized in some way, be it old or new).

[Fabulously Olivier]

I don't agree with the notion that PoR is a more incomplete game. Like, lol, what actually? No. The story, characters, world, map design, and gameplay mechanics are all sublime.

 

Nor was my assessment based on 3D being more proper. Binding Blade, Gaiden, and Geneology would be distinctly harder to "fix" because they all suffer from the worst flaw an SRPG can have - poor map design - along with a number of dated mechanics and poor unit balance.

[Jotari]

16 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I don't agree with the notion that PoR is a more incomplete game. Like, lol, what actually? No. The story, characters, world, map design, and gameplay mechanics are all sublime.

 

Nor was my assessment based on 3D being more proper. Binding Blade, Gaiden, and Geneology would be distinctly harder to "fix" because they all suffer from the worst flaw an SRPG can have - poor map design - along with a number of dated mechanics and poor unit balance.

I wasn't really referring to you specifically, just the general sentiment.

And I'd still say yes, Path of Radiance is more incomplete when compared to the GBA games (Blazing Blade of which I'd nearly go as far as to say is "too" complete as much of what it adds is irrelevant fluff. Specifically the Hector mode exclusive chapters which are basically filler. I think I would have much preferred them as trial mode maps). Compared to Three Houses Path of Radiance is laughably complete.

[vanguard333]

On 7/27/2022 at 11:10 AM, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

While the core gameplay, characters, artstyle, and story in Tellius are all strong... the games could really use some polish. The models, especially in PoR, are as primitive as might be expected from the series' first outing. The cutscenes could use a refresh, and the voice acting... honestly, redub it all (with apologies to Lani Minella). Finally, adding QoL stuff like universal danger ranges, in-battle combat window (PoR), ability to skip map animations (PoR), and ability to skip whole phases would be not just desirable, but almost certainly expected for current-day FE releases.

The models I do agree with; they could use an upscaling so long as they don't lose the art style or have their designs altered too much. The cutscenes could use a bit of polish as well. As for the voice acting, I thought the voices of Greil, the Black Knight and Elincia did a good job, but yeah; the voice acting for Ike and Mist was really bad. I would normally suggest at least preserving the good voice acting, but reworking the voice acting is a bit all-or-nothing.

As for the QoL stuff, what do you mean by "in-battle combat window" and "ability to skip map animations"?

[Fabulously Olivier]

I guess agree to disagree. I do not feel that Tellius is incomplete in any regard and I find the notion laughable. The worst I will acknowledge is that there was clearly an understandable jank in transitioning to 3D models for the first time.

 

On another note, why is there still a debate on the title of remakes? The Echoes is very clearly the one keyword that denotes a remake. It's before the colon, denoting series name, and Echoes essentially means "again". It's the "Shadows of" that was the subtitle, and thus subject to change in any remake.

[Samz707]

7 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I guess agree to disagree. I do not feel that Tellius is incomplete in any regard and I find the notion laughable. The worst I will acknowledge is that there was clearly an understandable jank in transitioning to 3D models for the first time.

 

On another note, why is there still a debate on the title of remakes? The Echoes is very clearly the one keyword that denotes a remake. It's before the colon, denoting series name, and Echoes essentially means "again". It's the "Shadows of" that was the subtitle, and thus subject to change in any remake.

It was at least incomplete somewhat for the Japanese I hear, since the second one had some pretty large balance changes/new unique weapons exclusive to English versions. 

I voted for Elibe, if only because it's the first FE game I had a true connection with and seeing a proper FE6/7 linked (Story-wise, not being the same game) together remake of both would be amazing.

I'd probably play a Tellius/Magvel remake and I'm honestly not sure if I'd get a Geneology one. (Since alot of the stuff I really hated in the 3DS games started there technically.) 

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

The models I do agree with; they could use an upscaling so long as they don't lose the art style or have their designs altered too much. The cutscenes could use a bit of polish as well. As for the voice acting, I thought the voices of Greil, the Black Knight and Elincia did a good job, but yeah; the voice acting for Ike and Mist was really bad. I would normally suggest at least preserving the good voice acting, but reworking the voice acting is a bit all-or-nothing.

I would like to hear them all redubbed by their Heroes voice actors. Veronica Taylor as Micaiah is too great to pass up. Or just new portrayers, for anyone who isn't in Heroes yet. I assume the music will be updated as well, so having new voicework just makes sense.

3 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

As for the QoL stuff, what do you mean by "in-battle combat window" and "ability to skip map animations"?

In PoR, there's no in-battle combat window (showing Attack, Hit, and Crit). Something that's been there since the SNES days is just... missing. They still have HP bars, but that's it. It's a bizarre exclusion.

Also, you have two choices - watch combat via a battle cutaway, or watch the fight take place on the overworld map. The latter is faster, but still far slower than an option RD added - the ability to deal damage instantaneously, without watching a slow axe swing. Any remastered PoR should have this option as well.

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

On another note, why is there still a debate on the title of remakes? The Echoes is very clearly the one keyword that denotes a remake. It's before the colon, denoting series name, and Echoes essentially means "again". It's the "Shadows of" that was the subtitle, and thus subject to change in any remake.

There've been three remakes thus far (three-and-a-half, if old Mystery is counted), and only one of them has been given the "Echoes" moniker. So if they wanted a unifying title structure for any remakes, they've failed right out the gate, because non-"Echoes" remakes already existed. And "double subtitles" are hardly anything new: each variant of Fates gets its own subtitle, while FE12 is both "New Mystery of the Emblem" and "Heroes of Light and Shadow". By this same logic, I'm hyping myself up over "Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem: Saviors of Land and Sky".

1 hour ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I guess agree to disagree. I do not feel that Tellius is incomplete in any regard and I find the notion laughable. The worst I will acknowledge is that there was clearly an understandable jank in transitioning to 3D models for the first time.

PoR literally has its protagonists go around saying "Gee, it sure is a relief we didn't awaken the dark god! I would hate to see that happen! Also, it's a shame we never learned who the Black Knight was. Guess we'll never find out!" It's the one title in the series that basically needed a sequel. Also, it had no S-rank Axe, Wind tome, or Fire tome. All of this is addressed by the sequel, mind you, but I think there's a definite case for calling PoR itself "incomplete".

[Fabulously Olivier]

8 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I would like to hear them all redubbed by their Heroes voice actors. Veronica Taylor as Micaiah is too great to pass up. Or just new portrayers, for anyone who isn't in Heroes yet. I assume the music will be updated as well, so having new voicework just makes sense.

In PoR, there's no in-battle combat window (showing Attack, Hit, and Crit). Something that's been there since the SNES days is just... missing. They still have HP bars, but that's it. It's a bizarre exclusion.

Also, you have two choices - watch combat via a battle cutaway, or watch the fight take place on the overworld map. The latter is faster, but still far slower than an option RD added - the ability to deal damage instantaneously, without watching a slow axe swing. Any remastered PoR should have this option as well.

There've been three remakes thus far (three-and-a-half, if old Mystery is counted), and only one of them has been given the "Echoes" moniker. So if they wanted a unifying title structure for any remakes, they've failed right out the gate, because non-"Echoes" remakes already existed. And "double subtitles" are hardly anything new: each variant of Fates gets its own subtitle, while FE12 is both "New Mystery of the Emblem" and "Heroes of Light and Shadow". By this same logic, I'm hyping myself up over "Fire Emblem: New Mystery of the Emblem: Saviors of Land and Sky".

PoR literally has its protagonists go around saying "Gee, it sure is a relief we didn't awaken the dark god! I would hate to see that happen! Also, it's a shame we never learned who the Black Knight was. Guess we'll never find out!" It's the one title in the series that basically needed a sequel. Also, it had no S-rank Axe, Wind tome, or Fire tome. All of this is addressed by the sequel, mind you, but I think there's a definite case for calling PoR itself "incomplete".

That doesn't mean it isn't a complete game, lol. It means they were clearly planning a duology from the outset. Each game in that duology tells a complete story that then comes together.

 

By your logic, Geneology wasn't complete until Thracia was released. Gee, I sure wonder where Leif and friends went off to and what they've been doing. Oh wait. No I don't because that isn't the story I'm being told right now.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Fabulously Olivier

[vanguard333]

26 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I would like to hear them all redubbed by their Heroes voice actors. Veronica Taylor as Micaiah is too great to pass up. Or just new portrayers, for anyone who isn't in Heroes yet. I assume the music will be updated as well, so having new voicework just makes sense.

In PoR, there's no in-battle combat window (showing Attack, Hit, and Crit). Something that's been there since the SNES days is just... missing. They still have HP bars, but that's it. It's a bizarre exclusion.

Also, you have two choices - watch combat via a battle cutaway, or watch the fight take place on the overworld map. The latter is faster, but still far slower than an option RD added - the ability to deal damage instantaneously, without watching a slow axe swing. Any remastered PoR should have this option as well.

I wouldn't know what their Heroes voice actors sound like; I haven't played Heroes since long before the Tellius characters were included. As for the music, why would the music be updated though? The music in Path of Radiance is great; some of the best in the series. Why mess with something that's already fantastic?

Oh, yeah; that is true. Honestly, though I may just be speaking as someone whose first FE game was Path of Radiance, I never really saw the point of showing that during combat, as you see all that when you go to select the fight and, during combat, well, it's during combat; you can't back out of it, so I don't see the point of displaying that info. Sure, a remaster could include that as an option, but I'd prefer for it to be an option.

I never saw the combat animations or overworld animations as particularly slow, but that would definitely be a good option to add for those who don't want to watch the animations, especially since it would be that: an option.

 

26 minutes ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

That doesn't mean it isn't a complete game, lol. It means they were clearly planning a duology from the outset. Each game in that duology tells a complete story that then comes together.

Yeah; I agree. Path of Radiance is a good game that left some good sequel hooks. We did not need to see Yune be released in Path of Radiance; that would've undercut Ashnard, and it's nice to have one game where the emperor/conqueror is the final boss for once; something the series really didn't see again until the Azure Moon route of Three Houses. We didn't yet need to know the Black Knight's identity; his purpose was to set the bar Ike needed to reach, to further Ike's need to get stronger while also being a formidable antagonist.

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Fabulously Olivier said:

I guess agree to disagree. I do not feel that Tellius is incomplete in any regard and I find the notion laughable. The worst I will acknowledge is that there was clearly an understandable jank in transitioning to 3D models for the first time.

 

On another note, why is there still a debate on the title of remakes? The Echoes is very clearly the one keyword that denotes a remake. It's before the colon, denoting series name, and Echoes essentially means "again". It's the "Shadows of" that was the subtitle, and thus subject to change in any remake.

As I said, clear as it may be, no one sewms to have informed IS thats what they were doing. Heroes refers to the game as Echoes in its categorization menu. Not even Echoes: Shadows of Valentia, just Echoes.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Jotari