CCMRCSGWNR3:FFDH Game Thread

[Blitz]

Blitz.

I've checked the first page of the mafia section, checked the player lists and postgames in all the games so far.

I've not seen a game where Proto and Kay are both mafia. So what are you on about?

check games where they are both playing instead of games where only 1 is present and don't look at res3 because they don't count

Proto hasn't been playing in a bit because of studies, but Kay being scum in the recent games is very common

@Eclipse, maybe, but my meter maybe fine too

[Blitz]

@Strawman and Prims

please explain why you think the other 3 beside Proto are scummy

also @Prims, I mainly called Straw scummy for agreeing that Proto is scummy but asking me why I think he is scummy where as he(straw) doesn't which doesn't even make any sense

[Bluedoom]

But even then, how is using metagaming on these 'chars' a hint to their alignment? My char pretty sure doesn't indicate any alignment if you knew what my char was. Plus, after checking like, 3 pages, I haven't seen Proto and Kay in a mafia team(except Schoolboy mafia).

I dunno, but you sound like you're hiding some info atm.

[Blitz]

But even then, how is using metagaming on these 'chars' a hint to their alignment? My char pretty sure doesn't indicate any alignment if you knew what my char was. Plus, after checking like, 3 pages, I haven't seen Proto and Kay in a mafia team(except Schoolboy mafia).

I dunno, but you sound like you're hiding some info atm.

you are missing my point

I was meaning they have been mafia the most lately

Proto has almost always been mafia, so has Kay and I would say character wise, they should both be mafia because they work well at defending one another

also, I guess you are right about them not being mafia together that much, but you should see the bits where they defend one another even when the other is mafia

[Blitz]

of course I am hiding something, I am hiding my character who has been scum a lot in the earlier days and hasn't been much in the current days and isn't scum in this game.

[Strawman]

I think he means the roles. Though I'm not entirely sure why he'd think that about them.

Huh, I suppose I'll break PR for a moment. :/

See, I wouldn't mind claiming if this was N1(where we can use info from D1,and where ROLES ACTUALLY MATTER) or D2, where we could use use info gained from the past couple of phases. I don't get why we should claim right at the start, ofc catching mafia maybe easier I guess with late replied and all. Maybe I'm just paranoid.

That said, Prims/Strawman, do you have a pm left you can send me? That kinda decides whether I send you guys a pm or not.

By n1 and d2 the mafia have had sufficient time to construct acceptable fake claims. Sure, an experienced OC/limited OC/NOC game where you can post role pms mafia player would make sure to get fakes completed n0 maybe with the exceptions of wincon, if they have no example of town wincon. If there is anyone who wants to be town leader/get claims to help organize the town, it is good to do so early to pressure the mafia with their fakeclaims. If they aren't complete they will be forced to rush which could cause slip-ups and poor choice in what role they choose to fake as.

Claiming now is stopping no one from using any information they/we/whoever gathers. Plus this allows us to know what should be going on and lets us better find out of someone is lying about their role by claiming to be blocked or what have you.

As for the pm you want, I do wish you would explain that a little more. As in what info you would want. Sure as pointed out earlier by Bal because Prims and I can sort of be thought as one entitiy instead of two seperate we get our 4 sms', but that is still only 4. It already limits our ability to contact with players about night actions enough. Cutting that down to 3 would definitely be a situation we would want to avoid unless absolutely necessary. (also please remember these are sms' and not actual pms please. do not get modkilled by accident)

My gut says BOTH Proto and Kay should be mafia and a claim like that is as easy as it gets for the mafia

since the mafia can talk outside the game thread anyways

if they are indeed mafia like my I feel atm, they can easily block the cop if the have a hooker and never get inspected

that being said, I am not claiming to them

I'm If we are mafia, people claim to us, and the cop ends up dead/blocked on day 2 there is a hugely significant chance no town player is going to let that slide by unnoticed. It will look incredibly suspicious and one of Prims or myself would have a good chance of being lynched for it. As such, we would turn up mafia. The other would be lynched/vigged by/on the next day. That wold be an incredible sacrifice and risk to take. Plus we had better have shitty enough roles and our remaining scumbuddies fantastic roles to be able to have control over the night actions we would have learned without u

I'm not the type of person to yell at people to claim, so I won't (but I can't say the same about Prims). But, with Marth especially, there are some pretty obvscum assumptions/explanations behind the reasons you have stated for disliking claiming/claiming this early.

And Bltiz, please think about what possible relationships between payers could indicate. One player defending/agreeing with/whatever another player does not auto put them on the same side. Especially since mafia don't want to be link to one another. If Prims and I were scum and third scumEclipse comes waltzing in here defending us and whatever else, it takes on of our deaths to put all three of us as mafia and all three of us lynched. Completely anti-productive from a mafia standpoint.

[Bluedoom]

...I see. This puts us...somewhere I guess? I think I can guess your character, but meh.

Also Strawman, post your thoughts. Now.

[Blitz]

@everyone not posting,

POST MORE

[Bluedoom]

Oh god, I've been ninja'd . :|

[Blitz]

I think he means the roles. Though I'm not entirely sure why he'd think that about them.

Huh, I suppose I'll break PR for a moment. :/

By n1 and d2 the mafia have had sufficient time to construct acceptable fake claims. Sure, an experienced OC/limited OC/NOC game where you can post role pms mafia player would make sure to get fakes completed n0 maybe with the exceptions of wincon, if they have no example of town wincon. If there is anyone who wants to be town leader/get claims to help organize the town, it is good to do so early to pressure the mafia with their fakeclaims. If they aren't complete they will be forced to rush which could cause slip-ups and poor choice in what role they choose to fake as.

Claiming now is stopping no one from using any information they/we/whoever gathers. Plus this allows us to know what should be going on and lets us better find out of someone is lying about their role by claiming to be blocked or what have you.

As for the pm you want, I do wish you would explain that a little more. As in what info you would want. Sure as pointed out earlier by Bal because Prims and I can sort of be thought as one entitiy instead of two seperate we get our 4 sms', but that is still only 4. It already limits our ability to contact with players about night actions enough. Cutting that down to 3 would definitely be a situation we would want to avoid unless absolutely necessary. (also please remember these are sms' and not actual pms please. do not get modkilled by accident)

I'm If we are mafia, people claim to us, and the cop ends up dead/blocked on day 2 there is a hugely significant chance no town player is going to let that slide by unnoticed. It will look incredibly suspicious and one of Prims or myself would have a good chance of being lynched for it. As such, we would turn up mafia. The other would be lynched/vigged by/on the next day. That wold be an incredible sacrifice and risk to take. Plus we had better have shitty enough roles and our remaining scumbuddies fantastic roles to be able to have control over the night actions we would have learned without u

I'm not the type of person to yell at people to claim, so I won't (but I can't say the same about Prims). But, with Marth especially, there are some pretty obvscum assumptions/explanations behind the reasons you have stated for disliking claiming/claiming this early.

And Bltiz, please think about what possible relationships between payers could indicate. One player defending/agreeing with/whatever another player does not auto put them on the same side. Especially since mafia don't want to be link to one another. If Prims and I were scum and third scumEclipse comes waltzing in here defending us and whatever else, it takes on of our deaths to put all three of us as mafia and all three of us lynched. Completely anti-productive from a mafia standpoint.

that sounds very right except that you are forgetting the part where if there are 5 mafia members, the 2 remaining mafia members will have ALL the info and know exactly what to claim

plus the mafia could have a SG and Tailor to defend you guys for a few phases easily and the mafia could easily get rid of the vig by shooting him/her N1.

[Blitz]

also, I have a class now

won't be around for a bit, but hopefully will be back again today

[Percivalé]

Please don't quote the whole fucking post. Seriously. I said this already.

[Bluedoom]

As for the pm you want, I do wish you would explain that a little more. As in what info you would want. Sure as pointed out earlier by Bal because Prims and I can sort of be thought as one entitiy instead of two seperate we get our 4 sms', but that is still only 4. It already limits our ability to contact with players about night actions enough. Cutting that down to 3 would definitely be a situation we would want to avoid unless absolutely necessary. (also please remember these are sms' and not actual pms please. do not get modkilled by accident)

Night actions ofc, but I was wondering if you guys used up some of your messages. There's no point in me claiming if night co-ordination is impossible. I might as well claim to you the next day phase.

I'm not the type of person to yell at people to claim, so I won't (but I can't say the same about Prims). But, with Marth especially, there are some pretty obvscum assumptions/explanations behind the reasons you have stated for disliking claiming/claiming this early.

Then I suggest you try me. I guarantee you won't like the end result

[Percivalé]

Prims did something that actually makes me trust him more, but I can't really say what it is. Look at me being cryptic!

[Bluedoom]

Also, I'm gonna throw this in.

No matter how much later I claim. I have a surefire way of proving that I'm not fakeclaiming. I just don't wish to claim this phase.

[Strawman]

Night actions ofc, but I was wondering if you guys used up some of your messages. There's no point in me claiming if night co-ordination is impossible. I might as well claim to you the next day phase.

Then I suggest you try me. I guarantee you won't like the end result

1. We have not used up any of our messages, because we don't want to use them willy-nilly.

2. I don't know what you thought I was getting at with that comment, but I think you may have taken it the wrong way. Its just every time you say "I could just claim next whatever phase" it sounds strangely like "I need more time to write a fake." Of course, I understand if since you don't believe you wouldn't want to put yourself in a potentially bad position, sure. But thats not how it is coming off to me at least.

[Strawman]

@Strawman and Prims

please explain why you think the other 3 beside Proto are scummy

also @Prims, I mainly called Straw scummy for agreeing that Proto is scummy but asking me why I think he is scummy where as he(straw) doesn't which doesn't even make any sense

You aren't going to like this answer.

For the first one, I can't answer it. I didn't have suspicions on any of them. If you want to know why I agreed then, please go back and look at interactions between Prims and I n0. Specifically all of my reactions to basically anything Prims said. Then go look at that post again. One of those statements I made is strictly in character, and the other is (while also being in partially character) my actual opinion on the matter. I already tried to explain this.

Now for your second thing. Go look at how Prims reacted to Bizz in relation to me, then how he reacted to you in relation to me. And keep in mind this game has role-play involved.

Anyways, I plan on going to bed and tomorrow I will hopefully be back in character(this game is way more fun that way). Dearest hosts I am sorry to have had to break it.

[Prims]

Don't have time to make a comprehensive post atm but beside Proto and Marth that was a bluff to get reactions from the targets, and it didn't work

[Balcerzak]

I'd probably be the best leader.

I get what you mean, its just that its hard to do so IMO. Nobody is really taking anything seriously, because honestly there isn't many ways to threat people into being serious. In day 1, you have the we will lynch you excuse. Night 0 you really can't... Unless its like we will lynch you tomorrow, but i doubt that works. I'm all for being serious, however, there wasn't much in the way of things to discuss.

On the one hand, it looks like you would like for N0 to be a serious time, but you also seem resigned to the fact that many people do not treat it seriously? I ask for the good of the town... were your posts about wanting to be a leader serious, or were they fluff? I have further inquiries I could make along this line, but I feel it is prudent to wait for your response first.

I would like someone to investigate me tonight, but you don't have too, I'm fine with whatever. Sorry.

Also do not confuse investigate for kill.

Psych... there are no kills on N0... that is the definition of N0... don't be stupid.

Kind of serious response to the not serious statement: I don't think we need town leaders in games like this - limited OC? Then again, we should try avoiding having one in most cases.

Do you still maintain the attitude that town leaders are bad with the current game setup? What are your thoughts on Prims/Straw?

We probably do want a town leader if somebody gets cleared. Until then, game should be played as NOC.

Probably best not to send people messages until then unless absolutely necessary, too. Stockpiling is better.

Do you still believe stockpiling is better, or was this just to make sure people didn't use all their SMS before you or your partner got a chance to claim after the update?

How is it fair for YOU to call Strawman boring when he's the one adding to discussion here? His point about organization is true, since scum naturally has the advantage in NOC. Just because something is "boring" doesn't mean it's a viable strategy, as Strawman was saying. It's hardly reasonable for you to attack him over this. Strawman is obviously just getting a feel for this game right now, and antagonizing him is completely uncalled for. Are you scum?

Well...thanks Prims. I really am just confused now. I was just thinking that maybe what Prims said earlier might not be terrible to consider I guess.He seems to know what hes talking about at least.

And uh...for PRs, I'm not really so sure on this though, but maybe if you are using your PR but you don't think someone is understanding that then maybe its the same the other way around too?

This is probably a good plan. Idk why, but Prims sounds like he knows whats going on.

How was what Strawman said unreasonable? Proto is barely posting and he might as well not be in the game. If you think Proto is scum then what's wrong with Strawman? The Strawman suspicions are really uncool for this stage of the game.

Obvious breadcrumb are obvious. Raymond calls Levity out for buddying, and misses all of this??? (Granted, much of it came after he prodded Bizz, but he's posted since then and didn't make any remarks on this.)

Also, ##Fakevote: Levantamos because stop buddying

Speaking of, have your thoughts on Bizz changed since you made this post? If so, why?

I figured Levity was following her PR. She didn't sound herself tbh.

That said, the cop checking Levity is a very good idea. :3

Aww Levity, you know I wouldn't do that. :3

My reasoning still stands, although I didn't think of that possibility.

Yes Kay, this game is 'different' from other games, you know. :3

Something about this really feels off to me. Marth, you are making me very uncomfortable. The way you seem to alternate between accusing Bizz, and then acting all buddy buddy with her, as well as your comments to Kay raise all sorts of warning flags. Not to mention your insufferable use of emoticons. Stop that, you are not a pre-teen girl texting her bff.

I won't even begin to go into how I fell asleep for twelve hours and missed deadline last game

Are you talking about Rarity mafia? Man, that feels like ages ago now.

I'm a bit more interested in how people pull Tailor out of a hat and assume there is one. I can remember the amount of games that have had Tailor as a role here on one hand. Hell, one finger, since I can only remember SFMM1 having one. It's not that common around here, but I suppose since Haze hosted both there is some precedent.

If not full Tailor, I don't see its more nerfed cousins Framer and Lawyer as terribly uncommon alternatives. Yes, sometimes being the first person to raise the possibility of a role existing is a tell that you know that role actually does exist because you have it, more often than not it's a null tell, and pure and honest speculation. Especially for roles that aren't really rare. I honestly don't see anything untoward having happened with any of the Tailor discussion.

Scumteam: Marth, Proto, Elieson, Psych

I understand most of your reads on Marth, to be perfectly honest. So much so I will for the moment definitely add my own voice to the list and

##Vote: Marth

Until his behaviour improves, this is the town thing to do.

I was wondering if you could elaborate on some of your other suspicions, though. I have some small inklings what a few of them might be, but it wouldn't hurt to see how somebody else phrases that logic.

[Balcerzak]

So very ninja'd.

[Bluedoom]

Something about this really feels off to me. Marth, you are making me very uncomfortable. The way you seem to alternate between accusing Bizz, and then acting all buddy buddy with her, as well as your comments to Kay raise all sorts of warning flags. Not to mention your insufferable use of emoticons. Stop that, you are not a pre-teen girl texting her bff.

Balcerzak, you wound me! I'm certainly not in my pre-teens,nor am I a girl, why would I act like one?

But gee, I was never a girl. I guess I'm just curious as to how pre-teen girls act?

Now, on a more serious note: I never ' accused' Bizz, if you read my reasoning earlier, you'd understand where I came from, and Kay and Levity explained my thinking process. At the same time, I never acted ' buddy buddy' like. My reactions to Kay mean nothing, at least I see nothing from it. Before I go into it, can you quote this certain reaction of mine?

Also, Mr.Balcerzak, I have to remind you that this meeting is not to see who rants the best/swears the best, but about catching mafia. That goes to all of you people overreacting.

[Excellen Browning]

Requesting informed observer.

[Kay]

BASICALLY:

Because of the position I'm going to be in for most of the game N0 doesn't really matter to me

Don't have anything against people posting tonight though.

Frankly I don't really get this. It's not that your claim isn't solid enough for me to overlook it but if you think N0 talking helps the town then why not do it yourself?

Yes, but if everyone is doing it and I still don't think it's a good idea, that's seen as scummy when I could be something like the doctor or cop. So I could be lynched for not thinking is a good idea.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea but I want other's opinions on the subject.

You can always claim at the last minute if you're about to get lynched. It might look a bit worse but if you've got a role like that I expect you'd be fine as long as you claimed while there was enough time to start a new lynch. Trying not to stand out is seen as scummy too.

Why do you not think it's a good idea? I doubt mafia fakeclaiming masons would go undetected for long and info isn't worth two scum.

Figure out if it's a good idea on your own. Then decide what to do. Even if you end up deciding to just go with the herd, if you have a legitimate suspicion, you should say something about it.

I see no reason to claim, and see no reason to waste a message on just telling someone what role you have. Perhaps if I had more info worthwhile to discuss, I would have a reason to pm you. But right now, no, I don't.

See, if Prims gets claims from everyone, he can coordinate everyone's roles so the town is more efficient. He can see if multiple people claim the same thing earlier on. Also, if everyone in the town claims ASAP, then unless the mafia wrote fakeclaims right away, they would be the last ones to claim, and it would be easy to pick them out, Obviously things won't really go that well because there are always paranoid people and that's not really a bad thing, and the mafia might well have fakeclaims or at least some of them, but it still works to some extent and you should be able to see this.

Go read SSBB Mafia or another game like that if you doubt the usefulness of a town leader. It's a really boring strategy but your argument seems to be that it won't be worthwhile and that's kinda silly. Plus you'll probably be quite likely to be lynched if you don't claim since you already don't look great and not claiming makes it look like you have something to hide, and getting lynched isn't exactly helpful to the town either.

Besides, what else are you going to do with your messages that's so much less of a waste?

See, I wouldn't mind claiming if this was N1(where we can use info from D1,and where ROLES ACTUALLY MATTER)

And where YOU'LL ACTUALLY DIE OR BE BLOCKED OR SOMETHING if Prims is mafia or whatever you suspect. What's with all the claiming at night lately, sheesh. Lynching correctly is more important than night actions and claims help with lynching correctly. This doesn't even make sense.

My gut says BOTH Proto and Kay should be mafia and a claim like that is as easy as it gets for the mafia

since the mafia can talk outside the game thread anyways

if they are indeed mafia like my I feel atm, they can easily block the cop if the have a hooker and never get inspected

that being said, I am not claiming to them

Yeah, see, I don't agree with this, but it's a much better argument against claiming. Not really important, just saying. Frankly I'd say this actually gives Blitz some townie cred IMO. The rest of his posts, not so much, but this one is sensible on its own.

@Strawman and Prims

please explain why you think the other 3 beside Proto are scummy

also @Prims, I mainly called Straw scummy for agreeing that Proto is scummy but asking me why I think he is scummy where as he(straw) doesn't which doesn't even make any sense

Didn't look to me like he was agreeing about Proto being scummy. He implied that Proto was inactive, but they aren't always the same thing. I thought he was just asking you about your suspicion.

that sounds very right except that you are forgetting the part where if there are 5 mafia members, the 2 remaining mafia members will have ALL the info and know exactly what to claim

But they'd still have to take down a whole lot of townies, and while they'd have info, they wouldn't know what people would do anymore, so they couldn't coordinate the town's actions to stay out of danger. It would be quite a gamble, at least.

My reactions to Kay mean nothing, at least I see nothing from it. Before I go into it, can you quote this certain reaction of mine?

"I'm not actually revealing anything with my posts because that might be scummy and I would definitely never act scummy. Please point out where and how I acted scummy so I can deny it specifically since I forgot what opinion I was pretending to have."

I have no illusions to think that I know what will come, but town leader or not, Marth is looking pretty bad. Wanting to claim on N1 apparently, wanting Prims to waste a message contacting him (seriously, what do you even think he should say? "Yeah, everything I said in the thread is true, please claim already"?), acting somewhat weird on N0 (Yeah, I didn't think that was scummy, but when combined with general scumminess later on, acting like a noob is still not good), and he just doesn't give me much reason not to suspect him.

##Vote: Marth

Marth, as much as I don't see any reason not to vote for you now, I'm not entirely convinced you're scum. If you aren't, please put a bit more effort into acting a bit less fishy. Whatever objections you have to claiming, it's better than getting yourself lynched, and while I personally wouldn't lynch you just for not claiming, the combination of not claiming and acting like this is really bad, and it doesn't look like I'm the only one who thinks so. Also, don't claim 5 minutes before phase end, give people some time to unvote, hey?

[eclipse]

I've got a horrible feeling that the mafia's sitting back and watching the town tear itself to shreds. However, Blitz being stupid about claiming needs to be addressed before I move my vote. Please give a better response to what Strawman said about why mafia fakeclaiming masons is a Really Bad Idea. A decently-balanced mafia will be such that they will hurt if their numbers are low, never mind what their roles are.

[eclipse]

I would also like to remind people that this game encourages RP, and not to mistake things like ranting/swearing/etc. for scumtells. So play your characters, and do it well~!

This goes double if there's someone that's playing me out there.