Higurashi Mafia - Game over

[Bluedoom]

I was typing in a big reply. Then while I was away someone came on the comp and closed the tab. Wonderful.

This is mainly a response to Subieko's earlier post.

I didn't think BBM was scummy enough at first to lynch, but of the three players people wanted to lynch(Elieson, Shinori, BBM) BBM seemed the best option. And as he started posting more I found him more scummy. I also didn't vote Rapier because he always acts scummy, so I didn't want to risk mislynching him on D1. I also had skimmed the thread around the time I voted you- Bizz had two replies to Elieson's question. I read the first post which didn't say anything about her role, and then I skippedher second post(which said passive) so yes, while I did sheep, its partially due to me misreading/skipping stuff. I also didn't feel like voting BBM for another reason- I thought we had a wagon on BBM(don't ask me why, I just saw BBM coming under fire and thought he had a wagon on him) And yes, I pressure voted Scorri for a reaction, nothing more- why are you grasping so much? I did have a discussion with BBM when I saw how contradictory his statements were, but he went offline afterwards. Don't tell me that I voted him when he didn't have the chance to defend himself- he had all phase and just started to look like a better target once you claimed. Finally, I couldn't really convince anyone to lynch BBM- eclipse was the only other one online at the time close to end phase, and she thought he wasn't worthy of being lynched. And yes I had no better targets to lynch after my unvote- not everyone has been talking a lot(myself included).

##Vote: Rein

So like you know, he actually comes here.

[Jaybee]

Kay, Rein, Bal, Rapier, I'd appreciate it if you'd actually play and not ruin this game or force me to cancel it due to inactivity.

[Jaybee]

Translated as "I don't give a shit what the rules say, you are subbed out if you don't post before phase end."

[Percivalé]

Ugh, I promise I'll post something of merit soon u_u

[Jaybee]

Aere has been subbed in for Rein.

[Jaybee]

Also now in need of minimum 3 subs whom may be used if nothing happens in the next 20 hours.

[Subieko]

Don't tell me that I voted him when he didn't have the chance to defend himself- he had all phase and just started to look like a better target once you claimed.

When you voted for him, he had no chance to defend himself in response to your vote. He didn't have all phase because you didn't vote for him during the phase while he was online. Again, my problem with your posts was that your attention was on BBM, but your votes were not, right up until BBM left.

With regard to your Scorri vote: in reading through you D1 posts, I saw no mention of Scorri other than that vote and a few replies to Eclipse at phase end when Scorri became the lynch target. You say you wanted to pressure her, but you had nothing else to say about her during the phase. What made you want to pressure her? I also don't recall her ever making any particular response to your vote; why didn't you continue to press her when your pressure vote didn't produce any reactions? (If I'm misremembering and she did react, disregard that, I don't have time to check at the moment.) And, again, I found it strange that you chose to make a pressure vote on someone you hadn't talked about instead of pressuring someone you said looked like scum taking advantage of a mistake. You said that BBM wasn't suspicious enough for a vote, but if Scorri was worth pressuring, why not pressure the dude you were at least somewhat suspicious of?

Finally, I couldn't really convince anyone to lynch BBM- eclipse was the only other one online at the time close to end phase, and she thought he wasn't worthy of being lynched.

Scorri's lynch came out of nowhere and she was lynched with only three votes on her. It doesn't seem to me that it was impossible to lynch someone else instead (and before you unvoted BBM, wasn't there actually a tie? I thought that was why you unvoted. If there was a tie you only needed to convince one person to change votes). It seemed to me that after talking about BBM in most of your posts during the day and finally voting for him, you didn't have much interest in convincing anyone else to lynch him, which strikes me as odd. Also, and this is just meta I admit, I feel like in other games where you were Town, you've been more aggressive towards people you were suspicious of.

[Bluedoom]

When you voted for him, he had no chance to defend himself in response to your vote. He didn't have all phase because you didn't vote for him during the phase while he was online. Again, my problem with your posts was that your attention was on BBM, but your votes were not, right up until BBM left.

With regard to your Scorri vote: in reading through you D1 posts, I saw no mention of Scorri other than that vote and a few replies to Eclipse at phase end when Scorri became the lynch target. You say you wanted to pressure her, but you had nothing else to say about her during the phase. What made you want to pressure her? I also don't recall her ever making any particular response to your vote; why didn't you continue to press her when your pressure vote didn't produce any reactions? (If I'm misremembering and she did react, disregard that, I don't have time to check at the moment.) And, again, I found it strange that you chose to make a pressure vote on someone you hadn't talked about instead of pressuring someone you said looked like scum taking advantage of a mistake. You said that BBM wasn't suspicious enough for a vote, but if Scorri was worth pressuring, why not pressure the dude you were at least somewhat suspicious of?

Look, I voted scorri to get a reaction. I had also assumed BBM had a wagon himself due to my capability to misread. I don't feel inclined to vote for someone who has a wagon on himself. Scorri had not said much before then. That is all.

Scorri's lynch came out of nowhere and she was lynched with only three votes on her. It doesn't seem to me that it was impossible to lynch someone else instead (and before you unvoted BBM, wasn't there actually a tie? I thought that was why you unvoted. If there was a tie you only needed to convince one person to change votes). It seemed to me that after talking about BBM in most of your posts during the day and finally voting for him, you didn't have much interest in convincing anyone else to lynch him, which strikes me as odd. Also, and this is just meta I admit, I feel like in other games where you were Town, you've been more aggressive towards people you were suspicious of.

It was a tie. let's see before end phase- Oh only eclipse was online. And she wanted Scorri lynched. And she was the one who started the Scorri wagon in the first place. There was no one else I could convince. Now I've had stuff come at me because I went for a tie. Obviously I would not want to repeat my mistakes?(ofc I wasn't in any danger in this instance lol) So I unvoted, that's all. What if I had left my vote and hoped someone would make another vote and no one did? We'd go with a no-lynch- and we all know how unpopular that is.

[Bluedoom]

Oh yeah, I'll be off to sleep soon, but I'm leaving my vote on Aere because he needs to come online and post stuff anyway.

[BBM]

Except I was defending myself for most of the phase. I stopped for a couple hours near the end because almost nobody was online at that time. Then you came on, attacked one particular post of mine, to which I made a response and then left because it was like 5 AM and I couldn't concentrate properly. I said that I was leaving in the thread, and it wasn't until after that that you began to attack the rest of my posts, and then voted for me.

Also, Bal, I believe you said that you had suspicions that you didn't want to post until the day phase? Where are those?

[Shinori]

Going to slowly work on a post for all this stuff that i think is happening.

But the gist of it BEFORE REREADING THE THREAD, I think BBM and helios are scummy and I fear Marth might be town, but his actions are being scummy, I am not entirely positive.

Thoughts on 2 mafias/harmful third parties?

Anyway, rereading and making a nice post, hopefully.

[Aere]

Just got subbed in, reading......

[Percivalé]

Okay, hi, I'm going to sit down and focus now.

Before I read in-depth, I'm going to share my opinion that, looking back, I kind of wish we had lynched one of the inactive players rather than scorri. I kind of feel embarrassed of myself for jumping on that bandwagon.

[Percivalé]

I'm not going to jump to conclusions or anything, but Rein better not have been mafia and so underconfident in himself that he subbed out. u_u Because some people kind of do that, and I did that in a game once. And I don't know if Bal is just too busy to post regularly now or if he's simply always mafia, because scum!Bal always posts less than town!Bal.

[Percivalé]

Actually, ##Vote: Balcerzak because I'm tired of inactives getting free passes for being afk. I see this happen a lot now. "Voting inactive players is useless and a waste of a vote." Well, what are they doing to help the town? Yes, I understand timezones and some players are busy (and I haven't been the most active myself), but some get let off for quite a while because of this, including scum. If a player has been mostly absent for a day phase and a half and hasn't been subbed yet, I believe a vote is warranted. And no, I don't want any logical arguments against this or whatever, I'm not in the mood for that right now.

I might have made a mistake with Marth; let me read his posts over. I'm still not getting a good feeling from him, and if I feel I might have been right the first time and simply second-guessing myself, my vote is going to him. I don't know if he's claimed/softclaimed yet because I haven't read everything in its entirety

[Shinori]

This post is gonna be a lot longer than I originally thought it would be cause I'm reading the whole thread and replying to any post I find weird or scummy, I think I'll just spoil my entire post quotes and all. Unspoil at your own risk once i post it.

[Elieson]

Don't spoilers it. Bizz and I can't open spoilers on our phones

[Helios]

You should go back and reread that because i didn't say you were scummy for asking for the roleblocker to out them self. I said i was getting a weird feeling because it feels like you are bread crumbing a lot in your posts. Also I'm pretty sure I never said it would be a bad idea for a town RB to out them self. I did however state that normally they would idle, however if they didn't idle it's not like a town RB is a super power role, it's obviously better than a few roles but obviously not the best and if they did role block someone who seems scummy then I would say go with it. What other evidence do we have.

Word? Alright I guess I'll go back and read what you said.

Why do I get a scummy read from this? Are you by any chance mafia and your buddy who got sent to do the kill was blocked, thus causing no kill to happen?

IF there is a scum roleblocker whoever got blocked would claim OH HEY BLOCKED BTW. And a town roleblocker would normally idle. You don't have that much of a reason to ask this question seeing as a townie or third party would announce they got blocked unless they have a passive role. This feels to me like you're digging for the roleblocker to out who they blocked or something.

Oh. So I guess you think I'm scummy for doing something I never did? Why you gotta put words in my mouth? I ask for townies to do the obvious thing and out of if they were roleblocked for the sake of information for the rest of the town, and I get scummy. But you're allowed to ask whoever the town!RB is to out there role and that's perfectly fine? Especially after you said it was scummy for trying to dig out who the roleblocker was (which I was NOT doing by the way)? That's even worse then what Elieson is doing! You're contradicting the shit out of yourself. The reason why I'm scummy, in your eyes, is due to a logical mishap on your part and evidence that doesn't exist. So quit wasting your time on me and start scumhunting instead of acting like a paranoid townie.

Alright now that that's hopefully settled, I can focus on actually scumhunting. Still haven't heard anything from Bal or Kay, and it looks like Rein subbed out. Bluedoom has school so if it's gonna start really factoring in he should probably ask for a sub. Not sure I see all the hate on him yet tbh; he's playing like how he normally does when he's town, and he always seems to get mislynched. So I guess I'm a little wary on him. Based on meta Bal looks scummy, but I think it's just because I always get that vibe off him when he doesn't post or scumhunt as much as he normally does. And voting Elie that late in the phase, when we had that whole thing over with? It looked like he was trying to force something out of nothing to me. Don't really have a read on Kay or Rein for now, but hopefully after they post more I'll figure out something.

[Subieko]

Before I read in-depth, I'm going to share my opinion that, looking back, I kind of wish we had lynched one of the inactive players rather than scorri.

But Scorri WAS one of the inactive players; she didn't have too many posts. I think Rein was more inactive than Scorri (and possibly Kay too but I don't remember off the top of my head), but Scorri was certainly one of the less active players.

I think we just shouldn't lynch people when they've had no chance to respond.

Thoughts on 2 mafias/harmful third parties?

We've seen no evidence of them and thus I think it's too early to worry about them. Also, care to detail your suspicions on Helios a little more? Is this still about the roleblocker stuff?And have you changed your mind about Elieson? You didn't mention him in your post.

Look, I voted scorri to get a reaction. I had also assumed BBM had a wagon himself due to my capability to misread. I don't feel inclined to vote for someone who has a wagon on himself. Scorri had not said much before then. That is all.

If you voted her for a reaction, then like I said, I'm interested in why you wanted a reaction from her in particular (she wasn't the only inactive; was she a random choice?), and why you didn't continue to press her when she, as far as I recall, didn't say much after your vote either. Basically, it seems to me that you didn't care too much about your Scorri vote and thus I find it odd that you made it, especially since in the very same post you talked about BBM. Not Scorri.

And if you don't like to vote on wagons, why did you vote for my wagon? This makes it seem like it was BBM's wagon in particular you wanted to avoid. Also if you never vote for people with a wagon on them won't you never be able to vote for a lynch? Since more than one person has to vote somebody to get them lynched.

I have no problem with you unvoting to avoid a tie, that was good. My issue was that you voted for BBM but seemed so disinterested in getting him lynched. Which made me wonder what the purpose of the vote was, since he was already gone and thus pressuring him wouldn't have any effect.

[Shinori]

Massive post jsyk. I was asked to not spoil it so here you go, also this is ONLY day 1.

@Elieson- why?

##Unvote, ##Vote: Elieson

That is information which benefits the mafia a lot. It lets them automatically cancel out people who are not high priority targets like the Doc and the Cop, while also letting them know who they probably don't want to target yet. On the other hand, very few town roles care about whether someone's role is passive or active.

Post that originally caught my eye, felt like he was overreacting and instantly jumped onto Elieson, but the way it felt to me wasn't that he was prodding him for info except it felt he was attempting to start an easy bandwagon.

Though I'm not sure about the rest of you kids, personally I'm hesitant to give out info about my role because, at least in my case, it'd be more helpful for scum to know anything about my role right now than town. I don't think Elieson is scum because he asked this, because IMO I think the scum team would be afraid of raising suspicion to themselves so early in the game. I think he's trying to create some discussion since this thread has been pretty quiet so far.

A post like this seems for viable for just prodding maybe a vote but not seeming so aggressive against the poster. This post doesn't strike me as scummy as BBM's does. This get's the point across that he doesn't feel like it's safe to out this info but also doesn't try to jump on an easy misslynch.

Wut. How does this help us at all, this just gives scum hints at who the power roles are. I don't want anyone to start outing info about their roles for no reason, and I don't plan on doing so myself either.

This is your fourth or fifth game, right? So I'm not willing to write this off as a newbie mistake. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Elieson

This gives scum info but it also gives town info, not just scum Role blocking info as stated further in the thread but also doctor targets are easier to pick, same with the possibility of cop targets. It's not a newbie mistake but a mistake that a fair amount of players have made in the past attempting to just start conversation.

I don't think it's necessarily scummy to not want to share info about your role this early, it's just being cautious. I agree with Shinori that Elieson looks town, since I too also know how Elieson thinks when he's scum and I know that his scumbuddies wouldn't want him to draw attention to himself if this was the case. I think one of the scumteam actually went along with things to blend in and answered Elie's question, and I also think someone who is scum tried to jump on Elieson on the basis that he's indirectly rolefishing. This is just my speculation right now though so take it as you'd like.

Agreed It isn't scummy to not want to share info this early on, but I didn't say that was why I thought BBM was scummy. I picture him as scummy because he seemed extremely aggressive and seemed to be starting an easy bandwagon/misslynch. As stated above.

But we randomvote for a reason, not for shits and giggles. Randomvotes are supposed to get reactions from people when we don't really have anything to go off. Similarly, I can vote for someone who did something scummy to see what they do/say next.

Also, this. Prime info for a scum hooker early on.

As I stated previously your vote wasn't random and as stated above you seemed just overly aggresive, like you were ready to lynch him then and there. I didn't like that.

My thoughts are that people are fooling around too much, and I think Eli picked a somewhat dubious way to stop it. I don't usually object to revealing info, but there's no reason for something like that to be completely out in the open as soon as the game starts. That said, this isn't N0, please vote to get reactions/pressure people/actually affect the game. I know stuff is inevitably random at first, but people were doing nothing but rolling their D13s for a bit too long.

##Unvote (BBM)

##Vote: Rein

So in this post Kay posts something close enough to my thoughts to warrant a reply, Elieson posted to start conversation since no one wanted to talk and that's more beneficial to scum than town. However I don't quite get the Rein vote, lately Rein hasn't been active in any mafia game's he's been in. This vote didn't even out any specific reasoning for why it was a vote, and we were clearly past the RVS stage, at least we should have been. This vote seems poorly thought out or stated. I don't quite like it.

I refuse to give out any information on my role, because it's none of your business. Are you guys playing "let's help the mafia find town PRs?" BBM has a point, but is far too strong with it, as usual.

Also close enough to what I was thinking. Bolded part is the important part. I didn't out info about my role until I outright claimed, and I see that as okay, I still think BBM was acting way to strong about the thoughts on Elieson.

oh, I'm still voting for cam.

let us remedy this!

##Unevict: cam

##elect: Elieson

That post was scummy as all hell.

You are scummy as hell. In the post before this you responded to kay who VOTED YOU, that gentle prods were ineffective and votes were much more effective, but you did nothing to help the situation and did not answer anything at all. You have been unproductive and unhelpful to this game so far and this vote was also LATE as hell. Join bandwagons late with little reasoning except for saying, hey that post was scummy. Couldn't someone just vote you saying you aren't posting and that's scummy as hell?

Second, yes. I expected about 2/3 not to even want to participate, and about 1/2 of them to present reasonable arguments. Perhaps everyone sees this as giving scum information as to who to target and who not to target.

Allow me to explain. First off, we are outnumbering a small team of mafia that can discuss with one another, and not eliminate themselves, while we frantically try to figure out who is what alignment and who is what role. The fact that mafia is targetting town is already a deficit that we have to climb out of. How do we do that, early on? With 0 relevant information to discuss while a small elite team gets the early jump on us? I'm all for winning here, and I'm not gonna sit with my thumb up my arse while waiting for a RVS lynch to occur. There are more sensical things to discuss, such as responses to my little game.

Third, I think that this gives us a little edge on lategame. We have something concrete to fallback on when there are only say, 5 players left. That concrete that I refer to is what was said N0. When roles are eliminated through death or otherwise, we learn what is out of the game. That leaves us to have at least a little bit of a better chance to catch a potential liar mid game, when things happen and there is hardly anyone to take blame for it. It may not be as reliable as a claim or something, but it's better than nothing.

Lastly, I'm seeing lots of activity now. And the point of my idea has come through. I realize it was kind of an odd way to go about getting RVS to take a hike, but let's think about what's been said in general.

More like hardly anyone at all in the game wanted to abide by the post you posted. For the obvious reasons you stated. Also the second part is the obvious, kind of pointless for the most part. Third I don't really see the benefits you stated as helping out late game, I thank you for starting discussion but the main reason would simply be to start discussion not to have discussion about our roles, which is how this comes off to me as.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Helios

You've gone well past vote-hopping into some kind of vote explosion. And you're unvoting people after they make a single post, regardless of what it adds to the discussion. What the heck are you doing?

Subieko brings this up and it is true, Helios is hopping around way to much for my likes. If you have someone you think that's scummy put a vote on them and vote for that person instead of hopping around all over the place.

Me! But make sure it's the Mafia Roleblocker who's hitting me. I have a surprise for him. *kiralaugh*

WHAT THE FUCK IS THIS? Could someone pleease explain to me what the fuck this is? aksjf;kasjfd;lakjfkal;

##Unvote, ##Vote Shinori

You overreacted even more than I did.

OMGUS.

Unvote

##Vote: BBM

I too didn't like the way he rushed at Elie, but I accepted it, because people view things from another perspective. But now I think he's overreacting (by the way, I take his "Shinori's overreacting more than me" as a confession of overreaction, which is mostly always bad) quite a lot. Especially after voting Shinori and saying he overreacted to protect Elie. If it's not suspicious, then I don't know what it is.

Another person who thinks you were too aggressive, obviously I'm not alone in this thought process of mine.

The very first one you quoted, actually. Elieson had three votes on him at the time and hadn't posted a defense yet; there was plenty of time for him to defend himself and get unvoted. And yet you sprang to his defense with a massive post almost immediately.

I also don't like that you and Bizz are saying that voting for someone because they are acting scummy is bad. If I think someone is acting scummy, then I'm going to vote them to put pressure on and get reactions.

Another problem with that post is that the whole thing reads as though you are 100% positive Elieson is Town. I think he seems somewhat Townish at this point, but nothing is certain.

That wasn't BBM's reasoning though; he felt Elieson's infofishing was scummy. I feel like you're twisting BBM's post to make him look scummy here. Maybe it's actually you who's trying to push an easy mislynch?

Helios is apparently about to post something, so I think I'll ##Unvote, ##Vote: Shinori. I think you overreacted more than BBM (and as far as I recall you don't usually overreact so much, unlike BBM).

Okay first off I didn't say any of the bolded stuff, putting words that people didn't say in their mouths, just like you did with Bizz in this same post.

Second to deal with your first sentence, three votes in a quick time frame where he jumped from 0-3 is silly. Also two paragraphs isn't a massive post at all considering you said the one you posted in here was a 'massive' post and I don't even consider it that large. I twisted nothing, I said I felt he was too aggressive and it seemed scummy to me and plopped my vote onto him. I didn't twist anything he said except for that was how it came off to me. And the overreacting part is something I answered previously but i'll answer it again, I don't feel I overreacted whatsoever.

If that's not an overreaction, I don't know what it is. Seriously. The last lines of your post were completely ignorant to the circunstances...

Dude, you're really lucky for being Mafia twice. But unlucky for being lynched twice on D1, lol.

I REALLY DO NOT LIKE THIS POST.

##unvote

My brain is kinda all over the place right now. Currently the people I'm finding scummy are BBM for overreacting and Subi for both defending BBM some and also seeming to put words in other people's mouths.

I'm going to trust my instinct here and ##Vote: Subieko

I'm going to try and come back and reread everything later, but I'm really not quite all here right now, so I dunno how that will end up going. Sorry I haven't been around much.

Bolded part is important, didn't notice it at first, but buddying between two people thought off to be scummy pretty much all of day 1. Also words in other people's mouth's again.

##Unvote

##Vote: Subieko

GG, put words in others' mouths.

ECHO MORE. This post was worthless and completely dog poop.

Also, although I'm not really sure of Subieko, I don't like how quickly this bandwagon is building on her.

As I stated above why didn't I notice this, these two were buddying for what seemed like all of day 1. Albeit I wasn't a fan of how fast the wagon was building either but the first person to state it was indeed BBM.

If all scummy things can be explained away by "he made a mistake", how do we find scum at all? Just wait for cop results? >_>

By looking for people who overreact, lie, mix things up with what they have said previously, you know, general mistakes like that. Also other info that we learn at night and from a lynch of a player, learning how they interacted with other members of the game and what they had stated before they died.

My vote is on Rein right now, but I'll move it once I hear some stuff from some people.

I think i commented on this supposed vote way earlier in my post and I still don't like it that you won't state that much on other players or anything, getting scum reads so far from Kay.

bal has a vote on me I think?

also rein where the fuck even are you

He died in his inactive hole in the wall.

I don't think you need to claim atm Subieko.

Feel's like you guys are buddies to me.

While I was out looking for my dad's gift, this happened. I got what I wanted from Shinori, and I'm not feeling it enough to have him lynched. Ditto with Elie/BBM. Helios isn't throwing out his usual scumtell, but he hasn't posted enough for me to conclude he's town. The Subi echo from earlier was weird, but I'm not fully sold on the fact that she's town because of it (see: SFMM2 and the lynch cancel that wasn't Iris). Rein needs to get in here and say something relevant. Kay needs to dump her thoughts sooner than later; if she dies N1, I have insufficient info on her to form any sort of opinions.

##Unvote

##Vote: Camtech

Form your own opinions. Echoing is useless at best and scummy at worst.

Rein and kay both need to talk, agreed., and camtech is echoing and being scummy, seems to be the general consensus so far.

Okay I really need to sleep. I probably left this way too late, but I might as well claim at this point. I'm not sure what the official role name is, but my role lets me target a player at night, and if I'm killed that night or the next day, my target dies too. As you can see it's a role where I would need to be a good scumhunter and also get myself killed by scum, which is why I wasn't sure how well I'd be able to use it.

People said they didn't want you to claim, why would you claim anyway when you didn't have many votes on you at this time (I believe). And if you didn't have much attention this just feels like you really wanted to get your claim out in the open for whatever reason. Also, side note, I've been told that this claim is a common fake claim for mafia members in the past before, specifically that one rein did off site, I forget the name.

1) My vote should still be on Shinori, so he has 2 votes.

2) We need to consolidate on somebody. Except I don't know how many people are online right now. I really don't think we should lynch Subieko. My lynch priority goes Shinori>Rapier>Cam>Elieson at the moment. I'd rather not lynch Elie either, he's just there because those are all the players I have any level of scum read on. I'd be fine with any of the other three. I'll keep my vote on Shinori atm, but I'll switch it to Cam if he doesn't post something worthwhile within an hour or so.

Buddying with suvieko, and i think three of the people he has in his top 4 lynch list are town. Cam being the exclusion. Say's I'm his most scummy read after an OMGUS still. SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM!!!!!

- What about the BBM/Shinori debacle going on now?<br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); ">- Shinori is definitely giving scum vibes to me. I'm not really getting any read from BBM yet aside from the fact that he seems to be very good at causing chaos and confusion.<br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); ">- What do you think of Shinori and Subi's claim?<br style="color: rgb(7, 55, 2); line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(239, 255, 240); ">- I'm willing to believe Shinori's claim for now, if only because it's just too weird of a claim to make otherwise. I'll revise following N1. Subi's claim makes sense to me, and it matches what I've seen of her behavior as far as i can tell

Tihs was from camtech, why am I getting all of the attention from the scummy players exactly? Subieko, BBM, and cam have all dropped votes on me saying I'm their most scum read currently.

minor revision to what i just said- I mean that I believe that Shinori is a kidnapper, not necessarily a town one.

## unvote

## hack Shinori

comes across as most scummy to me right now

Believed my claim, then fixed to say he doesn't think I'm town and I'm a mafia member stupid enough to claim my actual role in the open. Are you fucking serious?

##Vote: scorri except I would rather go with Marth to be honest; his post gives me more scum!vibes than scorri's does

You vote scorri and then say you would prefer to lynch Marth? I've been called out before on this, why aren't you being called out on this?

So Marth or Scorri?

PICK A PERSON AND VOTE WHO YOU THINK IS MOST SCUMMY OF THE TWO. Also post your reasoning, it can chance the tide of the votes.

If me, you, Kay, and Eclipse all voted for Marth, we could still lynch him. But Scorri's ok too, ##Unvote, ##Vote: Scorri. Again, when does this phase end? Time conversions are fuzzy and annoying because I always get messed up with Daylight Savings.

Seem's like in this post you say you would prefer a lynch on marth but then you vote for scorri, who flipped town. Marth has been acting scummy, this post doesn't sit well with me, maybe I'm just overly paranoid though.

Just went and did ISO on most of the notable bandwagons, and I'm really not feeling it. Calling it now, but Shinori and Camtech are both town.

My radar still pings a lot worse on Elieson, and I'd really like to see him lynched but as that doesn't seem like it's going to happen (for whatever reason) I'm going to have to contribute somewhere else. This is honestly exactly the sort of behaviour I've come to expect from seeing scum!Eli in action, and it plain and simple wasn't protown.

On an unrelated note, I must say I'm frankly disappointed in just how many people completely misread my scathing sarcasm post, where I was taking a potshot at the folly of Elieson's suggestion for a game. I had formatted it in similar language, and in a way that I had assumed the meaning couldn't have been misinterpreted, but some people seriously thought it was a softclaim? C'mon.

I suppose I can't complain too much though, as a lot of the interaction from Cam that I watch following this is what's currently leading me to believe he's town.

Now some people think that BBM was "over-reacting" or "acting scummy" but he seems to have just got caught up in the cross-fire of arguing. When he admits to trying to look bad to avoid getting NK, that's a little off, but at the moment not worth lynching over.

I haven't looked into either Rapier or Marth at the moment, to be honest, so I'm probably behind on forumlating any reads on them. Subieko as well, I'm in the air about.

Scorri has had some very bad play today, and unvoting and just leaving is a terrible practice and ought to be discouraged. I really don't like the idea of lynching someone without giving them any chance to claim however. Shit like that has been done before to people like Proto and we lose important town roles like Tracker, Doctor, etc.

Then again, my own play has been pretty less-than-stellar, as I slept most of Saturday and missed just about everything.

Bizz, to answer your question, the first half of D1 you were tripping my scum!Bizz sensors, which admittedly are not finely calibrated. Since you actually began to pay attention to the game though, things are looking a little better, but you honestly haven't been pressing me as hard as I'd have expected a Town!Bizz to do, so I'll continue to keep an eye on you.

In summary. I like my vote where it is, but as Iris pointed out I was terrible and forgot to unvote.

##unvote:

##Vote: Elieson

If scorri were actually present and able to defend herself, I would seriously consider moving, as I'm getting bad vague flashbacks to schoolgirls here. I think lynching someone who can't claim is terrible on principle though and refuse to endorse it.

BLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH

That's what I got for the most part from this post. I really feel like for all the words in this post there is nothing of notable mention in it, and then you end it by voting Elieson who is most likely not going to be lynched, what, two hours from phase end?

[Shinori]

>.> That was bigger than I thought it would be.

[Percivalé]

Oh, I never saw Bal's post. Ughhh okay I'm reading now

as for the scorri thing I'm sorry, I just figured marth wasn't being lynched anyway so

[Percivalé]

also bal I'm not pressing you as hard because I feel terrible every time I push on you every game

[Shinori]

Also to end this.

##Unvote

##Vote: BBM

For plenty of the reason in the above post, seems budding with subieko, seemed to waffle near phase end on a lynch target, seems extremely aggressive towards elie and overall seems scummy to me.

Also Sorry I got things mixed up between helios and BBM, they weren't the two that seemed like buddies. Also town read from helios and scum reads from camtech and subieko and partially marth because of how the day one phase ended.

[BBM]

Post that originally caught my eye, felt like he was overreacting and instantly jumped onto Elieson, but the way it felt to me wasn't that he was prodding him for info except it felt he was attempting to start an easy bandwagon.

Okay, let me say something. When I see someone do something scummy, I vote for them. It doesn't mean I'm trying to lynch them there and then, I use it along with the rest of my post to get the suspicious person responding earlier. Just because it's not a random vote doesn't mean it can't be designed to get a reaction from someone. Votes can be changed, so I don't see them as a strong way of making my point at all, especially not when I'm laying the first vote down in a phase where it requires 8 people to lynch someone before phase end.

More like hardly anyone at all in the game wanted to abide by the post you posted. For the obvious reasons you stated. Also the second part is the obvious, kind of pointless for the most part. Third I don't really see the benefits you stated as helping out late game, I thank you for starting discussion but the main reason would simply be to start discussion not to have discussion about our roles, which is how this comes off to me as.

This bit sounds like you're criticizing Elieson for his actions. But on Day 1, you thought that what he did was good.

As I stated above why didn't I notice this, these two were buddying for what seemed like all of day 1. Albeit I wasn't a fan of how fast the wagon was building either but the first person to state it was indeed BBM.

You're spinning stuff to make it fit into your argument that Subi and I are scumbuddies. 5 people voted in a row for Subi, all stating the exact same reaon as the first person who laid down the vote. You call out Marth for echoing on the Subieko wagon, but so did several other people. I was pointing that out.

By looking for people who overreact, lie, mix things up with what they have said previously, you know, general mistakes like that. Also other info that we learn at night and from a lynch of a player, learning how they interacted with other members of the game and what they had stated before they died.

By looking for people who overreact? That can be an accident too. People who lie? There can be good reasons for that. People who contradict themselves? That can be an accident too. If you can wave off some scummy behaviour as "accidents", you can wave off just about anything.

Feel's like you guys are buddies to me.

Then add Eclipse to our gang of scumbuddies, because she told me the exact same thing when I asked if I should claim.

Buddying with suvieko, and i think three of the people he has in his top 4 lynch list are town. Cam being the exclusion. Say's I'm his most scummy read after an OMGUS still. SCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUMSCUM!!!!!

And I think that there's a good chance that three out of the four people on that list are scum.

You vote scorri and then say you would prefer to lynch Marth? I've been called out before on this, why aren't you being called out on this?

PICK A PERSON AND VOTE WHO YOU THINK IS MOST SCUMMY OF THE TWO. Also post your reasoning, it can chance the tide of the votes.

Seem's like in this post you say you would prefer a lynch on marth but then you vote for scorri, who flipped town. Marth has been acting scummy, this post doesn't sit well with me, maybe I'm just overly paranoid though.

Because nobody was on a Marth lynch. Bizz even says that a Marth lynch isn't going to happen at this point. So I decided to strengthen one wagon and lower the chances of a nolynch, instead of starting another one and tying with the first.