Super Smash Bros Universe Mafia

[Prims]

i don't want marth to publically claim my role. the problem isn't whether he's telling the truth about being a rolecop or not, it's whether or not the "evolving pokemon" part of his role is true and whether or not he's town

it seems more likely to me that he's just a scum rolecop making shit up

[Strawman]

But what if by lynching Marth we're just making the same mistake twice?

I'm just having a hard time deciding of a mafia would think to say hey look at that dead rolecop from day 1 and look at all those pokemon claims, lets throw in another pokemon claim that could also be a backup rolecop. It just sounds a little too convenient for me.

But then the other side doesn't seem that plausible either. ugh.

[Prims]

that's because they probably didn't

what's more likely is that marth start out as piplup, scum rolecop, and when when everybody was claiming pokemon, he decided to do so as well to look townie when there was no reason to

when he got caught making a night action, he chose to claim his actual role, rolecop, because it's provable as he knows my role. note my previous logic about how scum would benifit more from knowing my role than town. town!marth should have rolecopped the role of a townie who had already claimed, to make sure they weren't fakeclaiming

[Prims]

*started

what i'm saying is that he only claimed the rolecop part because he got caught on an action

[Iris]

strawman is paranoid as always, i see

@Iris: Yes it is plausible that marth could prove his role as role cop but what if he is just scum role cop? Or what if he is vanilla maf that when king dedede dies he gains role cop ability as scum. Possible? I think it is.

l

i did say that his role was not indicative of alignment, and i think it's possible he could be scum

i don't want marth to publically claim my roe. the problem isn't whether he's telling the truth about being a rolecop or not, it's whether or not the "evolving pokemon" part of his role is true and whether or not he's town

it seems more likely to me that he's just a scum rolecop making shit up

the evolving part confused me since it was mentioned in marth's claim, but also in psych's, but psych actually evolved unlike marth

*started

what i'm saying is that he only claimed the rolecop part because he got caught on an action

prims, what do you think of marth talking about 'i think i got redirected but i'm not sure' earlier ?

@marth: out of all people, why was prims your target ?? + you didn't evolve, right ?

[Strawman]

But the part about his idol was still there so if he is mafia then they had to have planned to set him up as a backup. Which I guess really isn't all that unbelievable of a plan, but for some reason I keep thinking like it is.

[Subieko]

But the part about his idol was still there so if he is mafia then they had to have planned to set him up as a backup. Which I guess really isn't all that unbelievable of a plan, but for some reason I keep thinking like it is.

Not necessarily. He claimed AFTER Kay had flipped, remember, so quite possibly scum saw the flip and decided to claim their scum rolecop as a backup. Also, note that Marth did not claim he was specifically a backup rolecop, as opposed to a universal backup, until I suggested a theory about it. He was being extremely vague about how he got his powerup and what it was. If he was really a Town backup cop, why even say that he got his powerup D2 when he claimed? Why not pretend to still be Vanilla and thus avoid getting killed until he had useful information?

And his action last night isn't very Townie--why scan Prims, who is pretty obvTown right now, and who even said he would claim his role if it became necessary? Scum would probably really want to know his role if it's something that would insta-clear him as he implied. Whereas Town doesn't really care that much about Prims role right now.

Hm, what does it take to put someone at majority currently? I kind of want to switch my vote to Marth, but I don't want to put him at majority when Blitz hasn't gotten back yet.

[Strawman]

Huh, okay. Actually I could see that happening. Though I feel like the mafia would make fakeclaims way early so its weird that with this it would be like hes switching from his fakeclaim to a fake but also real claim that wouldn't have worked until lots of other stuff happened. But then that stiff that did happened would have, in theory, made it seem legit. Ok, I actually think hes a good lynch target now then. Well he and Blitz are both up there for me, but Blitz isn't back yet and I'm interested in what he has to say.

##Vote:Marth

[Iris]

Hm, what does it take to put someone at majority currently? I kind of want to switch my vote to Marth, but I don't want to put him at majority when Blitz hasn't gotten back yet.

6.1. Each Day will last 72 hours. A Day may end early if a super majority (66% of living players) is reached and all actions were sent in.

With 15 alive, it should be 10. Paperblade, confirm plz, I suck at math. There are currently 7 votes on Marth right now. Which means, you're safe I also considered switching, but if I do that, and you do that, Marth would be at 9, and then someone could quick hammer. :( .

Kaoz said that priorities will not listed until the game is over.

'k, I figured Kaoz would say something like that. Thanks for answering, though. tables, i'm looking at you

[Subieko]

Huh, okay. Actually I could see that happening. Though I feel like the mafia would make fakeclaims way early so its weird that with this it would be like hes switching from his fakeclaim to a fake but also real claim that wouldn't have worked until lots of other stuff happened. But then that stiff that did happened would have, in theory, made it seem legit. Ok, I actually think hes a good lynch target now then. Well he and Blitz are both up there for me, but Blitz isn't back yet and I'm interested in what he has to say.

##Vote:Marth

Well, it's not like they can't edit their fakeclaims if they want. I don't know if you remember since you were already dead, but in CP we totally ditched Iris' original fakeclaim and wrote her about three new ones later one. Situation changes, fakeclaims change with them, I guess.

I think Marth is at 6 votes right now, and we have 15 living players, so 8 is majority? Anyway let's make sure not to put Marth at majority before Blitz shows up because I want to hear from him this phase.

[Strawman]

Majority should be 10, Subi, since in this game majority is 2/3 of living players and there are 15 of us left.

[Iris]

oh there are 6 votes on marth, i lied; anyways, point is, we're 4 away from super majority

Well, it's not like they can't edit their fakeclaims if they want. I don't know if you remember since you were already dead, but in CP we totally ditched Iris' original fakeclaim and wrote her about three new ones later one. Situation changes, fakeclaims change with them, I guess.

Exactly. And remember, we only came up with 2 fakeclaims from the start, and didn't even make up the rest until much later . . . ! But I suppose it depends on how coordinated the mafia is, in SFM, we had them done on the first night, albeit some of them were really bad ones, so you can't ever say for sure.

[Subieko]

Majority should be 10, Subi, since in this game majority is 2/3 of living players and there are 15 of us left.

Oh right...I thought it was half living players, woops. Well we're fine then!

##Unvote

##Vote: Marth

I still want to hear from Blitz as well. But I'm okay with a lynch on any of Blitz, Marth, or Iris.

[Kriemhild]

I think Scorri used her High Jump because scum thought she had a good chance of being lynched today and they didn't want it to be wasted. Trying to save the other use of High Jump doesn't really make sense because the Town doesn't know how many uses it has in the first place. So, until she flips, we can't be sure whether any given kill crossed stages or not. And if she dies, then we know it's gone, so any saved uses are wasted.

...why would they think she had a good chance of being lynched when there were other players that were far scummier? Regardless of whether the Town knows how many uses it has or not, there was no need for her to High Jump when the Tracker could have guaranteed the lynch on her.

Subi summed it up perfectly: I'm the backup rolecop.

Post your full role PM ASAP. You posted your upgrade, but I want to see your original role PM as well. Entire thing. If you have any extra abilities that you don't want us to know about, fine, cut those parts out. But I want to see something that looks like a full role PM from you.

i don't want marth to publically claim my role. the problem isn't whether he's telling the truth about being a rolecop or not, it's whether or not the "evolving pokemon" part of his role is true and whether or not he's town

it seems more likely to me that he's just a scum rolecop making shit up

There are other ways to test his claim, like by asking him to tell you the first letter of the 14th word or something like that.

But yeah, Blues is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too scummy right now

[Tables]

Iris: I've just looked back to see where I ignored you... honestly, I think it's pointless. You aren't going to get any extra information out of it and it's easy enough to fake as mafia (personally, I've found don't quote the mod works much better in this kind of game, since it lets players, you know, play mafia, not play fraud department 3000).

But since you asked nicely (BTW you really didn't ask nicely. Obscure asking at the bottom of a post followed by a vote for missing the obscure question):

You attempt to track scorri during the night, but you lose track of her and do not know who she visited.

Also I'm still not sure on stages. Have we got a coherent strategy regarding them? It looks like certain stages are bad to stay on from what I've read.

And finally I do have some useful information for once! As the Co-mod to the first SSBB Mafia, I remember a number of things about stages. Like, not every role was affected by a stage, not every stage affected roles, etc.. Things that gave height generally made investigative roles better, one stage IIRC let people teleport... that's about all I remember right now. Also one thing we learnt is that town is much better than you think in this kind of game, their roles work more effectively than they otherwise would. So having a role cop AND a universal backup role cop AND a tracker... no, I really don't buy it. And also a Watcher but that's more protective as I said, but a Watcher that becomes a Tracker, definitely no. One of Blue and (whoever claimed Watcher) is lying (I guess you can also lump me into that category, but I know my own role so eh).

[Bluedoom]

First off, my role pm isn't edited with my new action. However, I had edited my earlier claim's goal just in case someone figured out who my idol was. Here's the real PM:

Dear Bluedoom,

You are Piplup.

A Penguin Pokémon. It's one of the starter Pokémon received from Professor Rowan when the player departs from the Sinnoh region. It's a Water type, so it's strong versus Rock and Ground types. It's very cute but filled with pride-- it hates to accept food from people. When it levels up, it evolves into Prinplup.

You have no special abilities. You wish you could be like your idol though.

You are allied with the Town. You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

Yeah, subtle difference, but the idol part is important here. I'd be easily figured out then.

And if you guys are asking my why I targeted Prims, give me one good reason why I shouldn't have? Honesty everyone else in my area already claimed and I don't think the claims were false honestly. Have you guys already forgotten how weird Prims was acting at the end of D2? I'm pretty sure he wasn't looking good then. And how would I know that Scorri would die N2, hence her flip would make Prims look town? Srsly? What did you guys want me to do, idle as the rolecop? Also Prims, I read some BS from you:

main reason i want marth dead is that psych's roleclaim should have been enough to make proto look better, marth's was an oddball and looked like an attempt to gain cred from everybody else claiming pokemon

furthermore i think scum would've been more interested in rolecopping me than town after i was very likely to claim today if it became blitz vs prims. scum would want to know in advance since it'd be an ace up my sleeve while town would just wait patiently

And Prims, I know your role now, but back then, what was the guarantee that you were town? What if you were mafia who fakeclaimed? Do you honestly think when it comes to you everything is easy? Rolecopping you would've been a good backup, honestly what's so wrong in me finding out your role? I repeat, do you guys srsly want me to idle?

[Prims]

uhhh

you actually did include a sentence mentioning your idol in your original claim, it was just different.

if you wanted to hide that you were dedede's backup, why didn't you just remove mention of an idol completely?

[Bluedoom]

uhhh

you actually did include a sentence mentioning your idol in your original claim, it was just different.

if you wanted to hide that you were dedede's backup, why didn't you just remove mention of an idol completely?

Because then I wouldn't have a goal, and my earlier claim implied it less, I thought.

[Subieko]

@Tables: so here is what I'm seeing in your post.

1. complain that someone who pressed you for information wasn't nice enough

2. discuss how stages worked in a previous game without really telling us anything we didn't already know

3. suggest that the Watcher might be scum, even though the Watcher's reports have been confirmed by two people, one of whom (Prims) is obvTown. SB is almost certainly a Watcher; scum!Watcher is possible but I don't see it as terribly likely compared to a backup rolecop claim that has several issues.

I completely sympathize with how miserable it must be to catch up on a thread that's over 70 pages right now, but this post is still just fluff. I'm inclined to think you're Town because fakeclaiming Tracker seems like such a bad idea, but both you and FP have scummy posts.

Have you guys already forgotten how weird Prims was acting at the end of D2? I'm pretty sure he wasn't looking good then.

You mean when he was freaking the heck out trying to save the Watcher from being lynched? Yes, he did several whacky things like double fakeclaiming, but the goal was very Town and I find it hard to believe that scum would draw so much attention to themselves for the sole purpose of saving the Watcher when it's to their benefit for the Watcher to die. Even without Scorri's flip, Prims was pretty Townish end of D2.

You have no special abilities. You wish you could be like your idol though.

You say that you altered this bit because you thought it would be too obvious, but once you say your role has gained a new power and the only relevant thing in your role PM is a mention of an 'idol', neither version is really more subtle than the other. This alteration just seems so pointless that I can't understand why you made it. And pointless lying to the Town is not really a Townish thing to do.

[Prims]

Because then I wouldn't have a goal

this is scum fakeclaim logic

if you were town you could've just omitted the goal or said "i don't feel like sharing my goal" and nobody would have faulted you for it. if you were pressured it would only take a second to reveal the goal and explain why you didn't do so in the first place

but no, you were pretty much scum trying to take advantage of other players claiming pokemon so that you could look town, and needed your claim to blend in with theirs

[Prims]

also tables, switch to to a higher amount of posts per page, it makes it easier to catch up

[Bluedoom]

this is scum fakeclaim logic

if you were town you could've just omitted the goal or said "i don't feel like sharing my goal" and nobody would have faulted you for it. if you were pressured it would only take a second to reveal the goal and explain why you didn't do so in the first place

but no, you were pretty much scum trying to take advantage of other players claiming pokemon so that you could look town, and needed your claim to blend in with theirs

No, because before I even claimed I tied myself to stuff: I implied I have night actions, and I implied Proto could be town. How can I hide more info than that? And don't you thin me UNWILLING to post a goal would be more scummy? What do yu want me o do, do more of my D! shenanigans?

[Bluedoom]

You say that you altered this bit because you thought it would be too obvious, but once you say your role has gained a new power and the only relevant thing in your role PM is a mention of an 'idol', neither version is really more subtle than the other. This alteration just seems so pointless that I can't understand why you made it. And pointless lying to the Town is not really a Townish thing to do.

No, I lied because I was afraid someone would use that same logic you used. Then I'd be figured out as a rolecop. As it is when I gave you guys hints you couldn't find out I was a backup rolecop, Eli couldn't, I remember. If that sentence was there I'm pretty sure it'd have been guessed.

[Bluedoom]

You mean when he was freaking the heck out trying to save the Watcher from being lynched? Yes, he did several whacky things like double fakeclaiming, but the goal was very Town and I find it hard to believe that scum would draw so much attention to themselves for the sole purpose of saving the Watcher when it's to their benefit for the Watcher to die. Even without Scorri's flip, Prims was pretty Townish end of D2.

What you forget is watcher can be a scum role too.

[Subieko]

No, I lied because I was afraid someone would use that same logic you used. Then I'd be figured out as a rolecop. As it is when I gave you guys hints you couldn't find out I was a backup rolecop, Eli couldn't, I remember. If that sentence was there I'm pretty sure it'd have been guessed.

that doesn't make sense though, because my logic didn't rely on your role PM at all. I only thought you might be cop backup AFTER someone else said you were a universal backup (Strawman I think?) AND you said you got your power from Kay dying. If you hadn't mentioned Kay yourself, I would never have thought about her, because the penguin thing is so random and weird. I honestly would not have been able to guess what your night action would be from EITHER version of your role PM. Plus given that you didn't reveal this supposed original wording until just now, just as I said, the alteration was pretty pointless since you got figured out anyway. So, it was pointless lying to the Town, which is not Townie.