BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Okay, sorry guys, I returned home last night later than I expected, and then I had internet problems that I was too lazy to fix at night. I'm going to re-read a bit and make a more solid case against Helios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 2 hours 59 minutes left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 This is off topic but: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 First off, I am going to say something about my play. I will never, whether I am town or scum, say that someone is 100% town or scum (barring role stuff). You can lynch me for it, but I will refuse to lie when stating my reads and say that there is a 0% chance that I am wrong, because there isn't. Yeah, it lets me try to push blame off myself after mislynches. I don't really care. Now, onto Helios. I'm only ISOing the content posts, not the one-liners and so forth. It's pretty large, so yeah, I apologize for the wall of text. Post 1: Helios votes for Prims, but the question he asks him is obviously not something that he's going to get a worthwhile answer to, whether Prims is town or scum, which makes it a pretty useless question to ask in the first place. Then he waffles a bit on Scorri in the exact same way that people are saying I'm waffling. Post 2: Backs off Prims for no good reason, because whether or not Manix was a survivor, that's what Prims thought he was, and that should be what matters. Then he makes a point against Kay which is okay. Post 3: I really dislike this argument against Kay because it's a pretty large misrepresentation. Saying that less than ideal activity > no activity is not at all the same as saying that quantity > quality, because if there's no activity, there can't be quality either. Post 4: Makes a lengthy argument against Rein, and says that Rein shouldn't deserve a free pass for claiming Miller. Fair enough, but I'll come back to this later. Then he gives reasoning for the Prims unvote by saying that he didn't feel that Prims would be around and he felt that parking his vote there would be useless. Except he's now voting for Kay, who's much more inactive than Prims is. Looking at the postcount, Prims has more posts than Kay even though he's grounded. Except voting for Kay is somehow not a votepark. In fact, I believe that Kay was absent for the majority of the time that you were voting her. Post 4: This is the exact same thing that I said when I FoSed Elieson and Scorri earlier, but when I did it, it was waffly. Why did nobody get on Helios's case for this? Post 5: Votes for Rein (he says later that he forgot he was a Miller). Scumreads Mancer and talks about how he was giving him a pass for being a newb earlier but can't do that anymore. In doing this, gives himself a pretty nice out if Mancer turns out to be town though. Also scumreads me for being waffly and vague with my cases. Post 6: Why exactly do you have a reason to believe Rein's claim to be legitimate? Nobody has a D1 reason for believing a Miller claim to be 100% legitimate other than no counterclaims. Also, remember that first post where he says that Rein shouldn't receive a pass for being a Miller? He contradicts himself here and never says anything about Rein again after this post. Post 7: Calls me out for waffling. Funny that he says that my cases are vague and undescriptive when his case against me can be summed up with: BBM is waffling. Post 8: I don't see this reasoning for no longer thinking Mancer to be scum as very different from mine at all. Also starts leaning scum on Eclipse just because of Blitz's flip, but then also says he sort of understands Eclipse's reasons for going after him. Then why are you even leaning scum on her? This is a horrible point. Post 9: Waffles more on the Eclipse/Blitz thing. Another passive aggressive point against Paper- he said something of this sort when Paper was defending Kay. You're clearly on the path to calling out Paper as scum- why not do that instead of talking about shitty points against Eclipse? Post 10: Defends himself against Meesh's reasons for voting him. Her reasons are pretty different from mine though, I think. As for the Prims unvote and Kay vote, those are minor points anyways. Passive aggressive point against Meesh- Helios is doing this a lot, where he points out something scummy about someone or compares it to something scummy someone else is doing, but then doesn't back it up with anything. The only difference between this and what I did earlier in the game was that I formalized it with a FoS, whereas he just points it out and leaves. tl dr; Helios waffles a lot, makes a lot of passive aggressive points against people and then doesn't do much with them, and is pretty hypocritical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Helios is the only current wagon I support, btw. I obviously don't support my own wagon, not interested in lynching Psych for the dayvig shot, and I don't think Mancer is scum. An update on some earlier reads I had: Excellen looks good so that playerslot is neutral now, Eclipse looks neutral and is therefore still leaning scum because of Scorri, and Elieson is now Psych, and although Elieson looked scummy I'm not interested in lynching Psych right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Wait can somebody explain the case on BBM to me? Like he's not really as townie as some other town reads but I don't find him scummy or waffly or whatever people are saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Also Paperblade should stop lurking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Also, if the people who are scumreading me could give me a unified reason as to why they think I'm scummy, it would be good. SEG said that she thought that a lot of my earlier posts were really scummy, but my later posts were improving, Excellen and Helios seem to be saying that my posts at the very beginning of the game were okay, but the later ones have become worse because my cases are vague, and Manix thinks that I'm passive aggressive. Some of it is contradictory, so I'm not really sure what I should be doing to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted November 10, 2012 Author Share Posted November 10, 2012 1 hour 29 minutes left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 1. "Hey, why am I scummy besides the fact that the people voting me have explained it?" (I rarely view this as a town tell) 2. ISO yourself, and read everything between here and here. A question here and there is acceptable; that many questions in a row is your scum tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I'm not saying people haven't explained it, I'm saying that some of the people who think I'm scum are giving contradictory reasons for it, and it's difficult to improve if something makes me look townie in one person's eyes but scummy in another's, and vice-versa. >_> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 You know those anonymous games where you end up being shot N1 'cause you're obvtown? Go reread those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The reasons that Manix/Kay/SEG/Excellen/Helios/whoever have outlined are one thing, but I actually loathe hard meta scumtells like that, and not just because I'm the target, so my tone is probably going to get kind of angry here. For one thing, a lot of those posts were questions because I was dropping in here and there for a few minutes between studying, and before school, and after school before going home, etc. I didn't have time to make arguments, so I asked questions to clarify points so that I could make better decisions when I did have time for it. And also, I asked a lot of questions as scum in all of one game. I tried really hard to emulate my play in Anonydraft and CMV here, but I'd rather not get lynched because I can't hold up to the standards of my best games in every game I play. Anyways, I'm starting to lose my cool, so I'm going to take a bit of a break. Should be here for phase end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peener weener Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 1 hour left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 I'm here who do I vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Tell me if I need to claim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meeshed Potatoes Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Le sigh, when people don't acknowledge or answer my questions and they're not things I can really ask the mod during the game... /drama No but really mafia takes enough energy when I'm well-rested and emotionally fit. It's very hard for me to play much when I'm depressed. I'm on my way up thankfully but the last few days have been really hard on me and I haven't felt up to all the aggressive interaction and analysis. Just been doing what I can. Last post made before I started this one was eclipse talking bout being killed N1 bc obvtown so if anyone's posted since I haven't seen it. I actually am coming around more toward thinking Mancer is scum. Bc of that whole thing about his vote. I don't like how he reacted to Shinori's (?) question. It was legit and Mancer got really defensive over it. Keeping my vote on Helios atm bc majority and I like this lynch but I am willing to switch to Mancer as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 The reasons that Manix/Kay/SEG/Excellen/Helios/whoever have outlined are one thing, but I actually loathe hard meta scumtells like that, and not just because I'm the target, so my tone is probably going to get kind of angry here. For one thing, a lot of those posts were questions because I was dropping in here and there for a few minutes between studying, and before school, and after school before going home, etc. I didn't have time to make arguments, so I asked questions to clarify points so that I could make better decisions when I did have time for it. And also, I asked a lot of questions as scum in all of one game. I tried really hard to emulate my play in Anonydraft and CMV here, but I'd rather not get lynched because I can't hold up to the standards of my best games in every game I play. Anyways, I'm starting to lose my cool, so I'm going to take a bit of a break. Should be here for phase end. Deal with it. If you have time to ask a question, you have time to post the logic behind asking that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 So nobody wants to go for Psych for some reason and Mancer wagon probably isn't happening either (wouldn't support that anyway). uhhhhhhhh Okay, from what I can tell this BBM wagon is baaaaaad. I looked over his ISO, how was he supposed to press Excellen / Psych / Helios more than he was already doing? He had his vote on at least two of them at some point and it's not like he completely dropped his reads after voting - even if he's not on their asses every second, he continues to talk about them, prioritizes between them, asks them questions, etc. Not being able to vote multiple players at once is a legit defense and I'm not sure where Manix gets the impression that's scummy. He's scumhunting and asking good questions which is the most you can really ask from a townie. Note that BBM's scum meta is to use questions as a replacement for scumhunting, not scumhunting and asking questions. Overall I've been town-reading BBM this game. Not like, Caliban-level obvtown but my only real problem with him is that he seems to filibuster more than usual which was pinging my gut before I realized it's probably just due to high post concencration in this game. Gonna re-read Helios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 Sigh I can't believe you people. This is the first time I've ever had to claim D1 to save my own hide :(. I'm the Town Alignment Cop. Chances are I'm gonna die tonight anyway now that I've said this, and if you don't believe me all I ask is that you say "fuck the police" before you mislynch me. That being said half the people on my wagon are grasping harrrrrrrrrrd and I'll look at this whole thing later but right now I'm counseling a friend so that's more important. Alright can we please not hurt the town by lynching me now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 SIGH I don't like either of these wagons. Is it too late to go back to lynching Psych? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 BBM: If you're here and town then vote Psych w/ me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 List of people with currently useless votes who could stand to get in here and not end this in a D1 CLUSTERFUCK: Shinori, Mancer, SEG One of the Mancer and Psych wagons is likely to die during merging of wagons too but you know Mancer lynch is just gonna hit newbtown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 blah ##Unvote what are the votals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted November 10, 2012 Share Posted November 10, 2012 sorry guys, I woke up at like 7AM, went in to read stuff, then went back to bed like an hour later fortunately I have not missed deadline Helios claim seems legit due to Miller claim ##Unvote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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