Final Fantasy Mafia- GAME OVER, Town Wins

[Xinnidy]

Why yes BBM defending yourself with the very reasons I find your defences scummy is a great idea.

It wasn't a defence against Helios or even an attack against Bizz- I was just asking her a question for clarification. I'll repeat, I don't have a strong read or feeling about Snike, just a few posts that feel weird.

Fair enough for the first sentence.

But if you just find Snike this tiny bit weird because your guts or something then why out it as bare as it was, and at the most convenient time to spring up another read as well? The way and timing that you threw it out there is what I find opportunistic, because you're giving a quick fix for all the time you've been focusing on Darros, then the guy gives an explanation and the read dies forever, without you ever mentioned if it faded or not or even judge into that reply.

I was accused of tunneling, and it was true, so I gave my only other read at that point. You say that struggling to find reads on a majority of the game is better than tunneling on one person and giving weak reads on other people- why? How is giving weak reads about people better than giving a strong read on one person and weak reads on others?

How is a strong read I don't find legitimate any better than a bunch of weak reads? For all I know you could be scum trying to push a case on a struggling townie by making yourself look better by comparison. And the fact that your whole defence when I press you about it is that you look better than Darros by comparison just irks me a lot more.

How is my vote on Snike opportunistic in any way? AFAIK, I was the first person to say anything negative about Snike. What opportunity am I taking advantage of by giving a weak read on him when nobody else is?

To WIFOM your way into making it town cred like you're trying to do right now.

The serious answer is on the first quote reply though.

@Darrps - make a qt or notepad file to dump your thoughts while reading the thread before making a post. I'm trying it for the first time and it seems to work pretty well because it means it's less that I have to reread overall. :x

I don't agree with your point about Kay wholeheartedly though because it takes into account that you're confirmed town or some and considering how early it is I don't find it a very valid argument.

@Mancer - can you please just stay since JB is going to sub out anyways?

[Darros]

@Darrps - make a qt or notepad file to dump your thoughts while reading the thread before making a post. I'm trying it for the first time and it seems to work pretty well because it means it's less that I have to reread overall. :x

I don't agree with your point about Kay wholeheartedly though because it takes into account that you're confirmed town or some and considering how early it is I don't find it a very valid argument.

Funny enough I do have a QuickTopic that I've been using for my thoughts. It's nice that I don't have to read as much to gather my own thoughts, but I still need to reread a lot for what everyone else is saying.

I get that you don't entirely agree with my point on Kay, but FMPoV I definitely see it as scummy. I mean, I do know that I'm town, and what she's doing seems to be trying to make me look like scum. If I were confirmed town there wouldn't really be a point to her doing that I don't think.

[BBM]

Darros, if you think I'm mafia, why are you so conscious of whether or not I call it an OMGUS if you vote for me? If you think I'm mafia, why are my opinions preventing you from voting for me?

Posting townreads isn't really fruitful unless they're about to be lynched or you're about to be lynched. It just tells the mafia who to shoot. It's not really scummy by itself, but it becomes so when you don't have any scumreads either because posting townreads is a lot easier for mafia than posting scumreads, since it's easier than faking.

Xinny, you seem to be have drawn your conclusions despite what I'm saying. First off, just because you don't believe my case is legitimate doesn't mean it isn't a strong read on my part. I believe he's the most likely player in the thread to flip scum at the moment. On the other hand, at the time of those early posts of mine with which you find issue, Darros had no scumreads, and was simply defending himself with "I can't find any reads". I repeat, how is that any better?

Arguments like "you could be WIFOMing" are ones you use when you're already convinced about something, because by that logic, everything could be WIFOMing. How can someone even look townie on non-role reasons? They can't, because everything pro-town they're doing could just be them trying to get towncred.

[Prims]

So did anybody remember that Areox is in this game?

[BBM]

yeah IMO if people are subbing in they should be subbing in for Areox, not because JB and Mancer are mad at each other.

[Snike]

Back, and I did not.

Give me a bit of time to compile my case, but I feel like we should almost lynch Mancer's slot on policy alongside the case against him, because from the quick readthrough, the double subout was entirely Mancer's fault.

[Prims]

Yeah I would like to lynch Mancer, he's scum and it also means we save the mod a sub (two if JB takes it as reason to stay in, which he should)

[Grace]

I might be requiring yet another sub btw. And it's not for Areox.

Best game amirite

also Areox has been prodded

Edited March 29, 2013 by Manix

[Kay]

I'm literally exhausted guys, musical rehearsal on top of school drains me, and the topic seems to be creating a lot of new pages whenever I'm away.

Right now Kay is looking pretty bad to me. I think that when she wanted me to not post my town readings, she was trying to make me look scummy ((due to me not having mafia reads)) so I would get ((mis))lynched. BBM is also looking bad to me, for previous reasons that I've explained ((tunneling, and being really aggressive about it)), but I feel like I won't be able to vote on him because, as Paperblade said, he'll turn around and go "nice OMGUS". I really feel like BBM could be mafia though. Other reads are on SB and Kay, and now, scorri. The whole scorri/Shinori thing leaves me with a feeling that scorri may be mafia, contrary to my earlier read. I believe that she misrepresented him, as Shinori never really did say that Lucina and I were scumbuddies like scorri claimed he did, he was more or less poking holes in my logic. I'm not sure how aggressive Shinori usually is in mafia, so his aggravated response might be normal? Things just escalated from there. Also I'm not liking the "your vote on Lucina is pointless" stance that scorri seems to have on Shinori. Just because a player isn't physically at their computer ready to respond doesn't mean a vote on them is useless. Perhaps Shinori saw Lucina as more scummy, and wanted to vote her.

##Unvote

I need to think about where to place my vote.

You didn't answer my question, Uhai. What good does you posting a townread on Lucina do?

[Xinnidy]

BBM did you try to defend against the Wifom reasoning I showed for Snike's read instead of the more expansive one I had at the beggining of the post.

The serious answer is on the first quote reply though.

Fuck it I don't think my vote is moving anytime soon.

Neither of JB and Mancer should really be subbing out to begin with imho.

[Darros]

Darros, if you think I'm mafia, why are you so conscious of whether or not I call it an OMGUS if you vote for me? If you think I'm mafia, why are my opinions preventing you from voting for me?

Because I'm town, I kind of want to give off that impression. If I vote you and it gets thrown around that I'm OMGUSing, guess who gets lynched instead? Me. And then we lose a town number. I think that voting you right now would be a bad idea, and it's not just you preventing me from voting. Other people might see it as an OMGUS as well. I just think that voting you would be a dumb move on my part.

Posting townreads isn't really fruitful unless they're about to be lynched or you're about to be lynched. It just tells the mafia who to shoot. It's not really scummy by itself, but it becomes so when you don't have any scumreads either because posting townreads is a lot easier for mafia than posting scumreads, since it's easier than faking.

But how is it better than literally nothing at all. Noncontribution is not really something I want to do in this game. I don't know why this is such a big deal against me, as in other games when people post townreads there's never any sort of big deal over it.

[Darros]

You didn't answer my question, Uhai. What good does you posting a townread on Lucina do?

I apologize. I thought that posting a townread would be helpful for making me look not scummy, since apparently having no reads made me come across that way.

[Jaybee]

guys don't make this personal please

Yeah I would like to lynch Mancer, he's scum and it also means we save the mod a sub (two if JB takes it as reason to stay in, which he should)

nope

also if you want to waste your lynch just to ensure subs or whatever i'm perfectly ok with that

[BBM]

Voting someone whom you think is mafia is never a bad idea. You want to look townie so that you don't get mislynched and don't waste town's scumhunting time, yeah, but lynching scum is almost always more important.

Xinny, what do you want me to say? I've already responded to everything you have against me. The accusation was that I was tunneling, which I was, so I honestly gave the only other thing I had at that moment. Yeah, it was weak. And if I haven't said anything more about Snike, it's because I don't have anything more to say about him. There were a few posts that gave me a bad feeling, and if I haven't mentioned him again, it's because the rest of his posts haven't given me that feeling.

[BBM]

I still don't particularly find Mancer scummy. Meh.

Also, my parents are talking of going over and visiting my sister tomorrow, and that'll take the whole day, so I may or may not be there tomorrow.

[Bluedoom]

Ok so JB you don't wish to stay? Hmmm

Manix will RNG between one of the two which Boron subs. And uh I dunno about Areox I'll have to ask Proto again if Areox doesn't respond. This game is turning out to be wtfgreat. I will be back in 4-5 hours so I'll see what to do when I come back.

[Snike]

Mancer's response to JB initially:

So, my case is pathetic? Do you actually find me scummy? Because you have not mentioned this in your post.

Mancer's response to JB 14 minutes later without JB replying in the thread since:

He just hates me and likes to tunnel me and take offence at me every game. It's really frustrating because it's like having a negative vote on me right from the start.

It's because scummy roles are unlikely town and the fact that both of you claimed to have scummy roles, I had this thought that one of you might be scum claiming town or something.

I feel vibes on the fact that you're a little overconcerned over this fact, but apparently, I'm not allowed to have my own little theories and thoughts about other players' reactions.

*sigh*

This was totally uncalled for, especially considering you've played all of 3 games with him. Vote sticks even if you're subbing out.

Back to a few things I noticed/ viewed as particularly important while I reread:

-scorri VS Shinori is really noise, IMO. I don't really see either to be scummier than the other, ignoring the fact that scorri has a p town claim. With that in mind I still don't think Shinori looks bad for it.

-Lucina's scummy because of the lack of content AND cherry-picking what content she had, if anything. Would lynch 8/10.

-While some of Xinnidy's criticism of BBM was valid, like calling BBM out on the tunneling, I don't think his read on me is inconsistent. He's generally had that for a good portion of the game.

With that in mind my vote shall remain where it is.

[Paperblade]

How isn't it similar? Someone makes a comment that people interpret as scummy when it isn't, what he meant and what you originally thought you meant changes the meaning a ton, but despite that you went "Well it doesn't matter!" and kept a vote on him for having no scumreads 12 hours into the game.

Darros isn't a new player, but he hasn't played for a long time, and tbh before he started playing again he wasn't very good. This wagon is similar in that someone said something dumb, and now people are getting on his case and keep going "No your reaction isn't good enough why aren't you defending yourself and doing all these other things?"

It's possible he's scum, but I think it's much much more likely that he's just town that doesn't know what to do and doesn't want to make natural posts because people are already jumping on him for it.

[Sunwoo]

Manix will RNG between one of the two which Boron subs. And uh I dunno about Areox I'll have to ask Proto again if Areox doesn't respond. This game is turning out to be wtfgreat. I will be back in 4-5 hours so I'll see what to do when I come back.

I hate all of you.

GROW THE FUCK UP

[MancerNecro]

I swear JB has a vendetta against Mancer or something.

I posted that in response to this.

Also, @Prims: unless you're me, don't judge my reasons for a sub. You don't know what I'm going through in real life right now, and I don't want it to affect anyone else, which is why I requested the sub.

[Prims]

Also, @Prims: unless you're me, don't judge my reasons for a sub. You don't know what I'm going through in real life right now, and I don't want it to affect anyone else, which is why I requested the sub.

Yeah if you're having irl shit then I don't blame you as much for the sub request (kind of more pissed at JB for his "nope I'm not going to stay in the game just because I feel like being obstinate"), I just think you're scum for unrelated reasons

I basically 100% agree with Paper's logic for the Darros wagon being bad.

[Prims]

Rein I hope you're reading this thread because you're going to sub in! I'll even go a whole game without any "rein doesn't post" jokes

[Shinori]

I'll go tell Areox he was prodded. I'm pretty sure he had a few busy days of school and forgot about it. I'll remind him.

[Kay]

I thought that posting a townread would be helpful for making me look not scummy, since apparently having no reads made me come across that way.

I can see where you're coming from, but posting townreads doesn't help the town, and if you're a townie, that's what you should be thinking of as "helpful". Basing your actions around not looking scummy is for scum.

##Unvote (Darros)

##Vote: Prims

I don't like most of his content. He's just kinda staying in the background and not really committing to his accusations. I'm not sure how to explain it but it seems like he just wants to make a bunch of people look bad and be able to say he has scumreads without pushing any of them enough that he could actually be blamed if they were mislynched.

[spoiler=Not game related @Boron]

I hate all of you.

GROW THE FUCK UP

Do we really need more declarations of hate? Sorry to hear that, anyway.

[Sunwoo]

Do we really need more declarations of hate? Sorry to hear that, anyway.

I don't really hate all of you, and I really shouldn't have said that. But you have to understand that I'm incredibly frustrated. Not only with the hostility here, but the last thing I need to see after just having failed a midterm is people fighting and Marth saying he needs me to sub in when I requested to be an emergency sub.