Group Mafia -- Game Over

[Shinori]

Well not weird persay. I just wanted to see if he legitimately though scum!BBM would make a push like that.

[Sunwoo]

scorri has been subbed in for Xinnidy.

[scorri]

Alright, lets do this. Let me read up on what's been going on and then lets start this.

First off, just in case

##Unvote

[scorri]

Ok, thoughts after quickly reading through the thread:

People should be careful about how much they try and pull reaction tests because if you start pulling multiple "Oh, that was just a reaction test." after getting called out for being scummy, people are less likely to believe you and it's more likely to get mislynches happening. That being said, overall I'm getting a townie read from Shinori, so uh... just be careful with that in the future?

I'm going to

##Vote:eclipse

for right now, largely because as I was reading through the thread I got a very passive manipulating feel from her. It seems to me like she's trying to get other people to do stuff without actually committing to much herself. Even if people are inactive, there's still discussion that can be had. Also your idea for testing hated modifiers seems like a weird push that could accidentally get someone lynched. If you think things that are happening are a waste of time, why not find something that isn't a waste of time? People sitting back and waiting for other people to post isn't going to help the inactivity problem.

Besides eclipse, I'm getting vaguely neutral reads on most other people. Lets try and do some more stuff guys.

Oh, speaking of stuff, apparently Xinnidy saw fit to not claim that I am Lover ------ and as such as long as it's not MYLO/LYLO I take one extra vote to get lynched.

[Sunwoo]

Votals:

Serious Bananas (1): Rapier

Shin (1): Xinnidy, BBM, Shinori

Manix (0): BBM, Rapier

BBM (2): Elieson, CT075, Manix, Serious Bananas, Shin

Xinnidy (0): Xinnidy, eclipse

Shinori (1): Fera, Elieson, BBM

eclipse (5): Balcerzak, Shinori, Elieson, Serious Bananas, scorri

Elieson (0): Manix

Balcerzak (1): eclipse

Not Voting: CT075

With 12 alive, 4 votes are required for a lynch and 8 votes are required for a hammer.

Extension request has been granted. There are 2 days, 3 hours, and 30 minutes remaining.

[Shinori]

@Mods: Can we get some sort of quick votals? <3

[Shinori]

Ninjad like a baws.

[Sunwoo]

Ninja'd, Shinori :P Those should be right, holler if they're not.

[BBM]

So that's... two Hated and a Beloved? Also, my role PM doesn't saying anything about the Hated modifier not applying in MYLO/LYLO. Personally I wouldn't have claimed the Beloved modifier either since it wouldn't cause town to accidentally hammer you, but eh, whatever.

I can see where the Eclipse case is coming from, and I'd like to see how she responds to it, but for now I think I'll keep my vote where it is. I don't really see any effort from Shin about anything- he made a semi-serious vote against me and then hasn't done much since other than defend it and himself.

[Rapier]

I'm buying this case on Clipsey. I really dislike it when someone tells you to do something and stop nitpicking when you're doing the exact same thing -- and imo, Clipsey didn't contribute at all to the discussion. Her only relevant post is the one where she says she'd rather tie Elie with BBM to check out their claims, which is terrible imo since they could both be town and we're taking way too much risk over a simple issue. I'd switch my vote to her if I knew how many are voting her. I don't want a hammer just yet.

I have a vague reading about everyone else, because the only ones who are active are Shinori, Manix, BBM and SB. Also I really suck at D1 for some reason.

Also, I'm in favor of a extension, mainly because of Easter.

[Grace]

technically the modifier is called "Loved" but same difference

anyway clipsey wagon: definitely has some basis. I made this post in my quicktopic before I went to sleep last night (around here

clipsey could probably stand to actually contribute more past a vote on an inactive >_>

because the active people don't really warrant a vote.

want to push this a little. clipsey, any particular reason for this?

---

Manix, you're not looking at the time of my posts. My first few posts about Shinori not voting were at night (or early morning, I guess), and when I said that it wasn't scummy, just provoking and annoying, that was after I'd slept and woken up and come back to it with a fresher mind. In that same post, I unvoted Shinori.

but you never explained why you swapped from "oh it's scummy and i'm going to vote him over it" to "it's not scummy, just annoying:. I get that your mind changed but not establishing the logic behind it looks bad.

I expressed some doubts because it would be a waste if I got lynched trying to prove my role when there's a better way to do so other than the Hated modifier that I don't particularly want to reveal at the moment.

Doesn't answer my question. Let me put this another way: What was the point of that post considering that you had decided in thread that it was more likely that two townies had the Hated modifier?

[Grace]

cut by like 6 posts gg me

[Rapier]

So that's... two Hated and a Beloved? Also, my role PM doesn't saying anything about the Hated modifier not applying in MYLO/LYLO. Personally I wouldn't have claimed the Beloved modifier either since it wouldn't cause town to accidentally hammer you, but eh, whatever.

I can see where the Eclipse case is coming from, and I'd like to see how she responds to it, but for now I think I'll keep my vote where it is. I don't really see any effort from Shin about anything- he made a semi-serious vote against me and then hasn't done much since other than defend it and himself.

What's the Hated modifier? I might've skipped through that part...

Also, I almost forgot. Unvote

[Grace]

Hated is where someone takes one less vote to be lynched

[scorri]

BBM: Well, if at some point people do try to lynch me, it'd look worse if I hadn't claimed it IMO and would likely ensure my untimely death as opposed to now.

[Grace]

@BBM: beloved is the modifier where the next day phase is skipped on death, whereas loved takes one more vote to be lynched

[BBM]

Okay, so Boron just informed me that my Hated modifier does indeed turn off at MYLO/LYLO, so nvm about that.

Yeah, it's more likely that Elie is telling the truth about his Hated modifier, but that doesn't make it a 100% thing, so I was still wary.

As for the Shinori thing, I'm not really sure what you want me to say. I originally voted him for not voting mainly as RVS; it wasn't really serious. Then when he made like two posts responding to me telling him to vote without a vote, I got kind of annoyed, so I kept my vote there. When I woke up, I wasn't really annoyed anymore and had found something actually scummy, so I changed it.

[Grace]

As for the Shinori thing, I'm not really sure what you want me to say. I originally voted him for not voting mainly as RVS; it wasn't really serious. Then when he made like two posts responding to me telling him to vote without a vote, I got kind of annoyed, so I kept my vote there. When I woke up, I wasn't really annoyed anymore and had found something actually scummy, so I changed it.

ehhhhhh okay i'll just have to take this but it's not quite the exact answer i was looking for (i'm more trying to push why did you think the way you did)

so question to anyone who wants to answer: what do you think about the fact that there's two Hated claims? do you think they both are town, or what other variation do you think is likely at this point in time?

[Rapier]

Hated is where someone takes one less vote to be lynched

If it's such a minor thing, why is everyone getting to worked up about this? This actually means very little, and doesn't bring out anything about BBM and Elie.

[BBM]

I wouldn't actually be surprised at one townie Hated and one mafia Hated, but IMO we should just treat those modifiers as null-tells and proceed on regularly.

[Grace]

Rapier: required reading

[Rapier]

Rapier: required reading

I read it already.

[eclipse]

Start here

Stop here

Now, tell me how many distinct players posted between there. Then, tell me how the hell I'm supposed to find scum when I think that the posts in the middle are made up of people who I don't think warrant a vote, and everyone else doesn't exist.

Explain why this is a rolefish. Normally, I hate definitions, but I want this in terms of the definition of a rolefish, because I think most of you don't know understand what it is. That goes for every single person with a vote on me. If you're going to accuse a Hated test of being that, then I want a distinct, clear idea of how the hell I can possibly get any sort of useful information out of "if there's another part to the Hated, this might not be a good idea." If I realize that my idea may backfire, I am damn well going to present both sides of it, because withholding such information to make myself look good is stupid.

For the rest of you, especially those that weren't in that sandwich of links that I posted, who decided to vote for me, you should be horribly ashamed of yourselves for not understanding how it's impossible to push people who aren't there. In short, this is a lazy, ill-informed wagon made up of a lot of people who I couldn't get a read on because they weren't here.

I'm quite irritated with the fact that this kind of idiocy turned into a wagon, so you'll get reads when I've cooled off. If you guys want, I can rip your votes to shreds, one by one, but I will NOT be gentle about it. I will leave this up to the people with votes on me.

[Grace]

thinking about what clipsey just posted. probably trying to push out why she didn't think the active people were worth a vote is a bad idea so I don't think I'm gotta follow that up further.

something about this wagon though is wrong and I should look into it. yes I'm aware I half endorsed it but that was because of the lack of content, not really for anything else she posted (which is weak reasoning so that's why I didn't shift my vote)

- reference frame should be obvious (the above post)

basically the only reason i possibly thought a clipsey wagon should actually go anywhere was for a lack of content. what content she did post however i didn't have a problem with. the two states are distinct from each other, don't bother trying to argue it

i'm not going to say anything more on clipsey's content etc until there are some answers from the wagon, but until then I'm going hunting for opportunistic people

[eclipse]

- reference frame should be obvious (the above post)

basically the only reason i possibly thought a clipsey wagon should actually go anywhere was for a lack of content. what content she did post however i didn't have a problem with. the two states are distinct from each other, don't bother trying to argue it

i'm not going to say anything more on clipsey's content etc until there are some answers from the wagon, but until then I'm going hunting for opportunistic people

Manix, you're in that sandwich of people that I linked, so I don't have a problem with you~! I do have a problem with the fact that the number of votes on me indicates that there's town on my wagon. Lazy towns lose the game for the rest of the town (source: every single scum victory in the games I hosted). My wagon looks lazy. Thus, my irritation.