Toonami Mafia: Game Over

[Snike]

back from work

god dammit I walled again didn't I

someone shoot me the next time this happens

Like right now, as I run commentary while I recap:

OK so NNR claims compulsive roleblocker. I am not quite sure to think of it, but I don't think we should lynch him today on the off-chance he can outprioritize Manix. It's a risk that I think is worth taking.

@Kirsche 1: Woo personal attacks. Also if you would've read j00's critique on your vote where he mentioned BBM was almost if not just as bad as I was with my defense of NNR in his mentioning NNR was scum, you wouldn't have to ask me to explain. Half-assed/vague/lazy doesn't really apply here, since really if I wanted to be any of those, there's Shinori to park on. #291 looks better than earlier content, though.

Then BBM comes in, explains his vote on me instead of nnr, and accuses Kirsche of distancing himself from his own read. Which is almost exactly what kirsche accuses BBM of doing in #289. This is starting to feel like a slapfight.

-Bard brings discussion back on target, thx for that.

-slapfight continues, going to ##Unvote because I don't see kirsche as scum right now aka I can't scumhunt ever. I don't think his vote is strong, however.

-NNR you at least have a target tonight. Trying to hit manix is a good way to be of positive use.

-I don't see why SB is voting Xin over an inconsistent reaction test as opposed to going after Nags for appearing to roleclaim or kirsche for supposedly being waffly, but ok.

-Hi nags
you backpedaled after what appeared to be rolefishing. This was after voting someone for them having a few weak reads but a semi-RVS vote.
nope nope nope
##Vote: Naglfar

-I can't read j00 at all. I don't know why. I disagree with the NNR vote hold but I'm probably in the minority on this matter.

-Hi Rein. I disagree with NNR's claim having been 'unprovoked', as Nags did his thing & NNR was L-3. It was early yes, but unprovoked is not the word to describe NNR's claim.

-Bard talks about civilty, turns around and trashes NNR's other mafia community. :X

-Prims Nags isn't voting me. I disagree with the NNR thing, save for maybe he's being defeatist, but idk. Axing a lot of questions, but it's not like scumpolling where they use that to feign activity. These questions are more pointed, which I think you get props for that.

-BBM stop stealing my reasons. Also I did have a vote as I explained earlier. Oh well, at least you stopped slapfighting.

-NNR jumps ship and goes for Nags.

-Can we just step away from that conversation about communities, please? That's way too meta and semi-personal to my liking. the Nags VS NNR thing is for BBM to explain,

-Rein I thought we were supposed to be super flake bros what are you doing stahp. In all seriousness stop ignoring the L-3 aspect along with most other people. If you want to try to make a case, try the less than 24 hours in angle. It sticks better than 'unprovoked', even though L-3 overrides that.

-Kirsche's slapfight-recognizing patch has evidently not been applied yet. I don't think voting BBM because he changed votes without changing much wrt Nags is even a strong reason either, but I digress.

-BBM nore explanation. FWIW wrt the buddy theory, I don't think a double bus - with nags trying to push NNR for 'bussing' Manix and whatnot- is in the cards. Also I don't think this is multimaf.

Pedit: Cut by Xin. 8[

Thank you Xin. 8]

On a more serious note I think now Kirsche is sort of flailing town, in the sense that I don't follow his logic, but it and his actions don't seem malicious in intent. I don't follow the self-conscious remark. Do you mean you think BBM was scripted or something?

tl;dr: I think

##unvote

##Vote: Naglfar

is the better lynch today.

[Xinnidy]

On a more serious note I think now Kirsche is sort of flailing town, in the sense that I don't follow his logic, but it and his actions don't seem malicious in intent. I don't follow the self-conscious remark. Do you mean you think BBM was scripted or something?

he's a mafia robot, don't you know

I'm assuming this is addressed at me.

Self-consciousness --from what I know-- is when a player starts caring about not being scummy to an extent it's suspicious. Here being the point kirsche had mentioned at the time. Where he's pointed out he didn't want to sheep another vote into NNR, while it was mostly implied in that post that he found NNR scummy anyways and seemed it was his main scumread, something he argued against later.

Also where is my ISO I just noticed. ._.

[NekoRex]

I reread kirsche because I saw him mentioned a lot and the most obvious flaw I noticed is that he suspects me, but doesn't think both me and Manix can be scum. Kirsche, do you think Manix is town despite the cop-confirmed role?

(Unimportant things I point out that don't have any point being in my normal post)

-Bard talks about civilty, turns around and trashes NNR's other mafia community. :X

I should point out Bard is from the same place, actually.

I'm sorry, I'll be very blunt. That has never caused a catastrophe for the games I've played until you overreacted like it was Satan killing your family in this game. I'm not blind and can see how and when it ruined this game for you, but I find it unfair if you just keep pulling your hair off and fully blaming it for your current state.
I am only sorry I wasn't here to discredit it earlier because something else I'm participating pulled me at a very inconvenient time. Please pull yourself together and try to take the game as a game.

To be honest I can admit I am playing pretty fucking horribly right now, and I don't really have an excuse for it other then the fact I can't get in the groove for it. Looking at this game makes me feel cynical and moody, so maybe I just need a break from Mafia after the game ends / I'm removed.

(Also I just like ranting about game mechanics that tend to throw me off, I don't blame you)

[Naglfar]

so from skimming, my first thought is that apparently there's a huge wagon on me because of one post I made when I was half asleep. that's pretty bad, I think. looks like time for a quote wall!

[spoiler=oh dear god]

Mind explaining why he wouldn't do that as scum, because I drew the opposite conclusion from it?

What about my vote didn't make sense? Xinny claimed it was a reaction test (which is already iffy to me), implies that I acted correctly by not overreacting or claiming, but then said that she wasn't fond of my reaction. This is a pretty big contradiction imo, and she didn't even justify why she wasn't fond of it. If she explains herself well, I might switch back over to NNR or to kirsche for reasonings I've already stated.

I figured that under the circumstances mafia would probably not claim at all, let alone set themselves up for it for apparently no other reason than to make manix look worse? this post would explain that pretty well... honestly kind of mean, though. but I'm afraid I've gone into something that comes down to neko's meta, which isn't really where I should be.

kirsche's vote: he alternated between deprecating and defending it for a while there. what?

SB's vote: were you offended by being reaction tested? you made a long post and you could have settled your vote on any of a number of people, but you chose xinnidy because her reaction test (on you) sucked and you didn't like how she was talking.

xinnidy's vote: she kept it on SB for reacting poorly. I don't see it at all.

I don't really like how Naglfar is just listing stuff as slapfights and potential slapfights when that word has sort of a negative connotation that I don't really think has been there as of yet. He didn't DIRECTLY ask NNR to claim, but he did say that he wouldn't really mind it, and stating after NNR claimed that he didn't really intend for NNR to claim seems suspect as well.

would snike's wording of 1v1 be better then? as for the claim, I tried to start discussion on it before I said anything definite, but he ran off and claimed on my single lukewarm suggestion.

##Vote: Naglfar

for reasons of

-Kinda pushed Neko into claiming and then was all "Oh, whoa, didn't mean for that to happen"

-Empty unvote for reasons of being obsolete without explaining why that changed

-Also by kinda pushed I mean Neko went "I have role-related reasons to suspect a thing" he went "well that sure sounds like bussing, please give me more about these reasons" Neko goes "should i just claim?" he goes "well it sure would give us good information and it's real tempting, what's the worse that could happen (i'm serious about this)" Neko claims, he goes "Whoa, didn't mean to actually get Neko to claim" like... this is textbook rolefishing

-Also things like saying that Manix sounds like upset town and trying to dictate where cop goes, etc. during N0 are giving me bad vibes.

time to address these votes.

-yeah, see above.

-I didn't see a substantial vote from snike even though I thought he could easily have one. that changed in a pretty natural way, so there was no reason for me to be on him anymore.

-if I were rolefishing, I wouldn't have posted that last bit inviting anyone against him claiming to speak up.

-I was just trying to start having content I dunno?

So I'm going to ##Unvote, ##Vote: Naglfar for reasons I mentioned earlier plus whatever Scorri said that I didn't. He's not really scumhunting any more than NNR and the ilk are. He had stuff on NNR, but so many people had said that stuff by that point that it's not really anything noteworthy. His Snike vote is basically just because Snike didn't have a vote, and while it says that Snike has a lot of opinions, it doesn't actually look at any of those opinions at all, which I sort of dislike.

Also fwiw his play doesn't seem like SSBU, where he was a lot more active and engaging, whereas here he feels kind of active lurky. He was SK there, but I think in this regard his play there can be approximated more towards town play than mafia play.

okay, you can't just discard what I've said just because somebody else said it first. thanks to timezones, I'm likely to be one of the last people to react to anything. sorry for not really scumhunting, I've been a slack piece of shit lately.

and yes, I was really motivated during SSBU for some reason. I'm just kind of feeling ordinary right now. if you want to talk about my meta, don't ignore the multiple times I've been a flaky turd as town.

Honestly I'm really just not feeling this game. I'd contest Bard on his dumb "defeatist attitude" since I play Mafia mostly to either laugh (as scum) or yell (as town) at people, plus I played Mafia way before I was around on MotK, but anyway I'm not going to bother. Actually bard that ticks me off a little. I don't like being passively insulted like that.

But I'm town, so I guess I'm obligated to try, right?.

I reread scorri and didn't see anything else I didn't like, but I'm not going to write her reactions from ED1 as "ED1 Shenanigans" just yet.

Nalfgar is pretty lame for baiting me to claim, though. I'm surprised after all this "rolefishing" stuff more people aren't getting on his case. At least my excuse is that i can't read in between the lines.

##Unvote

##Vote: Nalfgar

I blame my distaste for this game on fake/joke claims that look serious. It makes me super sad.

na-gl-far, good sir. I really don't like how you've gone out of your way to mention that you're town twice now. why do you feel the need to do that?

also holy shit on the italicised thing. don't even start. why wasn't I lame back before you claimed? after the thing with manix's role, I'm pretty sure right now that you're just making shit up as you go. you can say I baited you all you want, but in the end nobody forced you to claim and I hardly did anything. with how things turned out, I feel like I was the one who was baited into this situation. remember that nobody asked you to say that your role helps to incriminate manix (which it didn't, in the end). you were already up there for me, but after this I'm going to be very surprised if you flip town.

Despite your best intentions in making this have the least repetitive stuff, it's almost entirely it. Except the read on NNR's actions towards scorri.

You don't want to put a vote on a big wagon, then follow by voting Snike for not having a real vote, while he had his vote under me and was serious about it in his last post as of this quote. You completely piggybacked on BBM's logic to a T, not just agreed with him.

What baffles me in this post is how you're stating you considered him your #1 scumread like that.

Now, I'm aware people vote on who they find scummiest, but if he's something you can call a #1 scumread (while you wanted to vote Neko if he didn't have a tall wagon, no less), I'd honestly expect more than two sentences against him that follow someone else's logic. Is there nothing you can do to answer or judge his content other than stating your vote is obsolote?

Mmhmm, I concur with this.

##Vote: Naglfar

one, see above. there wasn't really anything I could do to avoid that. define the difference between agreement and piggybacking?

two, did he? looked like something out of RVS to me.

three, please don't put words in my mouth. kirsche was the one who said votes should go on #1 scumread 100% of the time. I had a number of scumreads at the time of that post, and because my brain was barely functioning well enough for me to crawl into bed, I was really not up to the task of voting.

-Hi nags

you backpedaled after what appeared to be rolefishing. This was after voting someone for them having a few weak reads but a semi-RVS vote.

nope nope nope

##Vote: Naglfar

I only backpedalled over a line I was pushed past, really. I voted you to see if it wouldn't speed things along, I was worried that we'd all be stuck talking about one guy for far longer than we should be.

so after that two hours of typing replies:

##Vote: NekoRex

because I can't rationalise you as town anymore.

[CT075]

aaaaaah i'm jetlagged to hell

i'm not going to be around very much tomorrow either unfortunately but here's what my thoughts are right now (tell me if i'm missing anything and i'll answer you)

@Bardstuff-

I'm going to take him at face value (his logic doesn't quite agree with me but I can't think of any scum or town benefit to claiming like that); though if he lives too long (or if Manix says something revealing) I'm going to start having second thoughts.

Bard, did you ever answer why you bothered to cop the claimed miller?

@Xinnidystuff-

I actually took this as a joke, since it's like almost word-for-word what SOMEONE or other says in quite possibly every game ever (not to mention I feel like I know Xinny well enough that this seems like the kind of joke she'd reasonably pull). Bard jumping on her fast pinged my radar a little bit, not sure what to make of that. Then scorri comes in with this which is on my notepad file for some reason that I didn't mark down (GG ME)

@"reaction tests":

IMO if someone wants me to believe that they were legitimately attempting a reaction test then they should be able to tell me what they were expecting to happen in each scenario (or, rather, what reaction would mean what)

Bard, if you were serious here (and I've only skimmed the last couple pages so if you've already answered this I'm sorry), can you do that for me please?

other things up through page 12 (i'll do the rest after i post this):

this is another thing that's in my notepad file for WHO KNOWS WHAT REASON (i'll probably remember after sleeping a bit)

Scorri/Bard looks like town infighting to me, I'm taking Bard as town for reasons stated and scorri is gut (expect this to potentially change)

more in however long it takes me to get caught up

[Shinori]

I kinda see naglfar vs neko interactions as distancing/bussing.

[Shinori]

Iono. Originally I wasn't so sure of the neko lynch but as I read a bit of things I liked it a bit more and I'm not liking naglfar at all at the moment. And the interactions between the two with them now voting each other just seems off to me.

[Zkirsche]

Woo personal attacks.

Apologies, I was tired and read a passive aggressive tone in your post which wasn't there and got irritated.

Do you mean you think BBM was scripted or something?

No I mean BBM is scared of acting scummy at all by not wanting to sheep.

As for why I chose Naglfar over NNR, it was mainly because I felt that Naglfar was going more under the radar than NNR, and that he was really active lurking just as much as NNR. I haven't "forgotten" about NNR, there was just nothing to say there more than I already was. What were the other people voting NNR saying about him? Just "Oh nothing's changed".

If nothing's changed then you should see NNR as scummy as you called him pretty scummy a while back. Nags active lurking more is reasonable though.

There's a lot of trivial dislike comments in this post for its content.

I wouldn't call my dislikes "trivial" as it means I found what they did slightly scummy.

I see NNR as leaning scum, as for Manix; ehh I can see fake RPMs given to cops when they investigate him.

Also I have a wedding to attend, but Shinori can you elaborate?

[CT075]

TOONAMI.TXT PART 2

And I personally would have found very scummy if SB overreacted and felt forced to claim or so (or would have found it scummy if anyone pushed him to the point of him doing that)

[...]

Did I get something out of it? Not as much as I'd expected, there was Bard's claim just before, that I was hoping some people would overlook. Then SB reacted very soon in a way I'm not fond of, and people just sat in their faces expecting a response from me otherwise.

whoa whoa whoa whoa what this was an actual reaction test

xinnidy i give you the same question i posed to bard in my last post: What were you expecting, what did you get, and what does it mean?

um what claim why - i feel like we should do something with this; a claimed compulsive roleblocker *could* be very helpful to town. I would have liked for it not to come out but now that it's out I think we should, as a town, come up with NNR's next target (assuming that he doesn't get lynched)? Not sure whether to take it as legit or not; I'm inclined to believe it for now because it came across as a panic move (I feel that scum!NNR would wait at leas tuntil there was more pressure on him).

Don't like how hesitant Cam is to post here. Townies care more about getting not particularly coherent cases out rather than sitting back and not doing anything, and the "don't want to say anything i'm gonna regret" part makes him seem really self-conscious.

OH WELL

and i can't get anything from the last two or three pages (basically anything after SB's post that i quoted) so i guess that sums things up

not gonna drop a vote because any reads i thought i had are completely jumbled

[CT075]

Not sure whether to take it as legit or not; I'm inclined to believe it for now because it came across as a panic move (I feel that scum!NNR would wait at leas tuntil there was more pressure on him).

actually wait i just thought of something

what if naglfar and nnr are scumbuddies and they staged that argument just to get towncred for the both of them? idk i'm bad at this game

[CT075]

...aaaaaand cut by a few posts saying the exact same thing gg me

[CT075]

also i'm going to bed in about 30 minutes

[Prims]

I don't think NNR/Naglfar buddies is probable based on how the wagons are going down; scum is already down one man from Bard's scan on Manix so it'd be illogical for two buddies to push the day toward a D1 scum lynch. Unless there are multiple scumteams, in which case they'd be smaller and there's even less reason for a scumteam to push the day toward a D1 scum lynch.

Shinori what the fuck are you even doing this game? Have you even made a single post of content? I want to shoot the hell out of you but you did the exact same shit as Kumaneko and I just don't know why you even sign up for games if you're going to be like this.

Snike, if you're going to write yourself a summary then you should leave it separate from your content so it doesn't pad out your post and make it more irritating to read.

People trying to meta Naglfar based on games that happened a year ago is questionable. Still prefer a NNR lynch based on effort levels alone. I believe the claims of demotivation but think he could be demotivated as either alignment; it doesn't really mean anything or make up for scummy play. Also he gunned for the guy a counterwagon was most likely to spring up on which is pretty convenient if he wants to go by on minimum effort as scum.

Mods pls post votals.

[Elieson]

V-V-V-Voderps!

NekoRex (NNR) (5): prims, Bard, Rein, j00, Naglfar

Naglfar (5: scorri, bbm, NNR, Snike, Xin'dy

Xin'dy (1): SB

BigBadMarshmallow (BBM) (1): kirsche

mafia sucks (Prims) (1): Shinori

Voteless Trash: Cam

Unable to vote/be voted: Manix

[spoiler=Players with 0 Votes]

Bard (0):

Captain America (Rein, Strider) (0):

Shinori (0):

j00 (0):

Manix (0):

CT075 (Camdar) (0):

kirsche (0):

scorri (0):

Snike (0):

Essbee (SB) (0):

Day 1 will end at 1800 GMT -5 (5pm CST, 6pm EST, etc) on 7/22/13. With 15 (-1) alive and present, 8 votes yields instant hammer and triggers phase end. Phase Ends in approximately 8 hours and 20 minutes.

Manix is not able to be voted, and will not be posting in thread. Any votes on Manix will automatically be defaulted to No Lynch.

---

Fixed Xin'dy not having an ISO.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Elieson

[Shinori]

I told elie I would be gone for a bit. For about two days after the game started I had a lot of issues at home that had me really away from doing anything.

Then I came back and saw like 15 pages of which part of those don't even consist of anything useful to read so I've been procrastinating. I APOLOGIZE.

I'm working on getting some stuff actually done to post.

##Unvote:

Will most likely be voting one of NNR or nagl.

[NekoRex]

I see NNR as leaning scum, as for Manix; ehh I can see fake RPMs given to cops when they investigate him.

Scum result I could see, but faking a role PM? That seems a bit far-fetched.

[Zkirsche]

Meh, the opposite with godfathers often happens here (where the godfather is given a fake rolepm that the cops see) so I millers giving a scum role pm isn't unlikely.

Of course if we get mass hooked then Manix is getting lynched tomorrow.

[NekoRex]

that response from Kirsche sounds like he's trying to handwave his earlier statment "Scum between NNR and Manix" btw.

[NekoRex]

(Of course I'm ninjad by Kirsche)

I'd have to see it to believe it. That still sounds like suspiciously specific denial, however.

[scorri]

Meh, the opposite with godfathers often happens here (where the godfather is given a fake rolepm that the cops see) so I millers giving a scum role pm isn't unlikely.

Issue with that is that Manix claimed that he would return his real role to rolecops just without the miller part.

Also, I like my vote where it is and now I run away probably won't be back til after phase end, sorry.

[BBM]

Naglfar's post doesn't really do much to address my concerns. I never dismissed his NNR suspicion or said that it didn't matter, just that it didn't show much scumhunting effort because it was more or less a c/p of what five other people had already said.

And for all the post before that was saying that he wanted to come up with a more solid #1 scumread, his scumhunting in the last post was some side stuff at the beginning that he went nowhere with, and a bit more against NNR that's not really much more than what he already had. I don't really think the bit about him not saying it was rolefishing until after matters that much, because the scummy part of your rolefishing was that you tried to distance yourself from it after he claimed with a "whoa didn't think you'd actually claim".

[Elieson]

Slightly under 5.5 Hours remaining

[Zkirsche]

Issue with that is that Manix claimed that he would return his real role to rolecops just without the miller part.

He did? Ok I take all of that back then, he's scum. Feel better about NNR then.

[charlie_]

@Xinnidy, how would you have reacted to a post that you thought at the time was just a joke? Either way I'm switching for consolidation purposes and I thought that NNR was a better lynch anyway, but needed to make sure Xinny would respond (still find her a bit suspect, and she doesn't post that often so I wanted to make sure she would respond.)

Also Xinny's ISO broke, again.

Couple more things on NNR.

I'd sheep scorri though if someone would kindly answer though.

Along with the fact this is rolefishing, it's almost bribery in a way and is also an excuse to back off in the event of not being told what kind of cop Bard is.

Apparently a soft CC to an already guilty player isn't enough to get people off my back, who knew.

CCing implies that you're putting yourself in harm's way for the sake of getting that player lynched. Seeing as how Manix is already under a lot of suspicion, I don't see how this helps you look anymore townie.

1) Because someone asked.

It was your fault you claimed still. Nags might have asked for you to claim, but you forget how you were the one who asked around for if you should claim or not.

##Unvote

##Vote: NNR

[BBM]

Shinori/Cam- 5 hours left. Why are you guys holding down an RVS vote/no vote at all?

Applies to Kirsche/SB too, but at least they're voting for a scumread.

Cam's last posts have no reads and really no scumhunting either. A lot of his stuff is just commenting on what other people say without actually saying anything scummy they're doing. He just asks a lot of questions, half of them to his townreads. In his second wall, he says that he is inclined to believe NNR's method of claim, but then in his next post like a minute later he says that maybe NNR and Naglfar are buddies bussing even though he hasn't talked about a single scummy thing that either of them have done.