What could have made SSB4 better?

[Comet]

Hey, I liked that mechanic. And the whole "make the game like Melee" is the sole reason I don't like Project M.

Online lag is pretty atrocious and the game should run on Kid Icarus's lagless servers.

Speaking about Ice Climbers, aren't they pretty much useless without chaingrabs?

the concept of making it like melee? it wasn't necessarily straight out copy of melee, just in theory. i want a game with more options than the rock paper scissors analogy i used earlier.

nah ice climbers are nowhere near useless. their smashes and desynchs are a thing. they're okay in brawl too.

http://youtu.be/7Ircu0TIwzs?t=45s

Edited November 2, 2014 by Comet

[Jotari]

Custom moves and custom equipment shouldn't be so heavily linked. Most of the people I know want to play custom moves but not equipment. CPUs use custom equipment so you can't fight them evenly unless you have custom equipment. The custom moves is a great idea and I love the idea of custom equipment too but I don't always want to play with both at the same time. Regardless, they should be present as an one of the modes in For Glory. I'd like to be able to use Palutena online.

[Kiseki]

Custom moves and custom equipment shouldn't be so heavily linked. Most of the people I know want to play custom moves but not equipment. CPUs use custom equipment so you can't fight them evenly unless you have custom equipment. The custom moves is a great idea and I love the idea of custom equipment too but I don't always want to play with both at the same time. Regardless, they should be present as an one of the modes in For Glory. I'd like to be able to use Palutena online.

You could just sell all of your equipment and leave none for the CPUs.

I feel that the CPUs in this game are overall dumber than they were in Brawl. They have a disgusting obsession with projectiles and side smashes and don't even know how to recover at times. At least the vertical falling flaw in Brawl isn't in this game, but I'd love to have a CPU that isn't flawed as a training partner when no one's around.

[Zkirsche]

it also means that it's harder to kill them

rock paper scissors is basically reading your opponent, which is what the game is.

yeah that kind of makes me wish the 3ds version didn't exist, if anything

Yeah, it means you need to *gasp* manage how you fight someone instead of abusing good moves. Killing people should be made easier by changing other mechanics.

lol Rock Paper Scissors is just "go with whatever you feel like" not reading into an opponent's movement/approach/grab patterns.

[Comet]

Yeah, it means you need to *gasp* manage how you fight someone instead of abusing good moves. Killing people should be made easier by changing other mechanics.

lol Rock Paper Scissors is just "go with whatever you feel like" not reading into an opponent's movement/approach/grab patterns.

nah don't worry it happens anyway because stuff like ganon's up smash > up tilt, even though up smash isn't even that good. oh yeah and now we get to mechanics which should also be changed since i could find something dumb about almost everything in the game. another huge problem with this is lack of variety in gameplay. if every character has basically the same drawbacks and no unique moves outside of specials then people are always going to play the same way which gets repetitive fast. pika's up smash used to have a lot of power which shoudl be feared and we all knew it so we'd play differently because we were aware of it which was different than "x character wants to use a slow move to kill me so i'll be safe". no, we'd have to be aware of that really good move and learn to deal with it.

if you think about it, it's actually "i'll do rock because the other person thinks i'll do scissors" and stuff like that, but that game doesn't have much depth, like sm4sh.

Edited November 2, 2014 by Comet

[Jester Capri]

Just in case I offend Edge la Edgy fans of DPit, I want him to be removed or in case you guys vehemently defend him, at least Luigify Edge la Edgy Pit. There are like hundreds of weapons in KIU, and yet the only weapon he gets that is unique is Electroshock.

Lucina needs to have her fighting style based on animations of her in FE:A. She had so much potential to be unique, yet it was wasted.

I don't know what else could have made the game better, but this is all I have for now.

[Roflolxp54]

Just in case I offend Edge la Edgy fans of DPit, I want him to be removed or in case you guys vehemently defend him, at least Luigify Edge la Edgy Pit. There are like hundreds of weapons in KIU, and yet the only weapon he gets that is unique is Electroshock.

Lucina needs to have her fighting style based on animations of her in FE:A. She had so much potential to be unique, yet it was wasted.

I don't know what else could have made the game better, but this is all I have for now.

Correction: Dark Pit also has the Silver Bow and the Dark Pit Staff.

Fun fact: clones take up very little space in the game data.

[kingddd]

Online lag is pretty atrocious and the game should run on Kid Icarus's lagless servers.

Both systems run on P2P. There are no servers in game other than the matchmaking servers.

The only reason why KI online runs almost flawlessly is because it does not have to sync with everything. It does a lot of lag compensation to make the netcode transition smoother. Shooting games do this all the time like Call of Duty, Counter Strike which is why you have a lot of people complain about why they couldn't kill the guy even though graphically it looked like he or she shot first. But behind the netcode, their opponent actually did first. Mario Kart's online does the same thing where everything shown graphically is not really in sync with the actual event. It's why you have characters flying around like an idiot if their connection is really bad or a character spins out 2 seconds later than they should have. This system is in place in order to have a smooth graphical performance.

Fighting games are a completely different story since everything and I do mean everything has to be graphically in sync. Would you like to play a fighting game where the netcode is not graphically in sync and the enemy is flying everywhere if he has a bad connection? You really wouldn't. Your hitboxes have to be precise. It's why we have a lot of graphical lag when we play smash bros online and many other fighting games. 4 player and with items makes that even worse compared to say 1 vs 1.

Edited November 2, 2014 by kingddd

[BrightBow]

First of all, Omega stages should be based on Battlefield.

The menu really needed to be overworked. The way it ended up, it's a total mess.

The main screen menu leads you directly to Milestones but not to options, which is hidden in a sub menu called "other modes". Again: Options is hidden in a sub menu. This should say anything about the way the menu is designed.

Versus and Smash Run are for some reason the only modes accessible from the main menu while all other ones are in said sub menu. If you select Smash or Smash Run, it will ask if you want to play Single or Multiplayer but if you go to "Other Modes", it will ask you for singe or multi before even selecting a mode. And how come Milestones are in the main menu and not in the vault?

Why are they all those separate occasions for selecting Single or Group anyway? Shouldn't you be able to connect to other players first and then have a separate menu were only the modes are listed which can actually be played in multiplayer instead of having to confirm every time that you do in fact want to play alone?

I've been playing this game since it is released and I still get literally lost in it because of it's chaotic design and because the "Other modes" sub menu is designed like your usual Main menu despite it being accessed through through a small button on the lower right corner of the screen with a title that might as well say "some other stuff".

So Other modes should be the main menu: Single, Group, Customization, Vault, Options. Align everything else along those general categories.

The character select screen for Versus needs some work. I just can't comprehend what they were thinking when they put the "Ready For Battle" banner right over the portraits. That way, if you want to change the characters, you have to carefully move the cursor around that thing so that you actually manage to touch the tiny selectors and not the massive banner.

So the banner should be were it doesn't get in the way. Or it should be changed so that it says: "Press Start!" and that touching the banner itself won't actually do anything.

Default Settings should be: Two players, 3 Stocks. Seriously.

What's even worse, is that the game asks for Singe or Multiplayer first. I get playing time mode in multiplayer with 3+ players but why would it be the default assumption that I want to play a time match against the CPU? Or 3 players for that matter? And 2 minutes is way too short for a timed match anyway. Since everything above 2 players is pure chaos, so against the CPU, I would probably play 4 players over 3 players anyway.

But one way or another why can't the game at least save my selection? It can save the costume that I used for my characters even when I turn off the game but when I just re-enter the Versus menu, it always resets to "time mode", 3 players, lv3 CPU? At least that stuff should be saved until the game is turned off.

Smash Run powers should be selectable from the regular Character Creation sub menu instead of only from the Smash Run sub menu. Seriously, there is no reason for this limitation. The two menus are identical except that the normal menu is missing the button to get to that particular sub menu.

And all these unused songs need to be properly used in the stages. They all should just be assigned to the stages of their respective franchise. There might not be enough songs for the fancy Music menu of Brawl but they could just allow you to toggle between all of them with the R-Button. The songs are few enough in number so that this would easily work. Like, Mega Man has 4 songs, so you need to press the R Button no more often then 3 times to get the song you want. No biggie as long as the currently selected song is displayed.

Why do we still use this cheat code-like "hold R while selecting a stage to play a second song" crap anyway?

Speaking of music, the music selector for Smash Run is awfully designed. It's nice that you can select which of the songs the game randomly plays during the mode. It's not so nice that just like in Brawl's menu system, the only way to play a specific song is to delete your current playlist and leave only the one song selected that you want to play. Except that it's even worse here since the Smash Run selection contains all the songs in the game.

It's completely unreasonable to expect the player to restore the entire list by hand just because they wanted to hear a specific song for a change. They should just handle the music selection the same way that random stages are handled.

Also, Special Smash should be in the game. Maybe not to the same extend as in the Wii U version but considering that stuff like Stamina matches can still be found in the finale of Smash Run, I don't see any excuse for it to be completely absent except as a cheap trick to make the Wii U version look better by comparison.

The Koopalings, female Robin, male Wii Fit Trainer, Alph and the female Villager should all get their own slots on the character select screen. I don't get it myself but apparently giving alternate costumes their own slots equals more content and a free dessert... rather then merely a messier character select screen and random enemies getting slightly less random. And hey, can't argue with a free dessert, you ungrateful prick.

And the game shouldn't give you skills that you have already obtained. Getting them is not a challenge, it's a chore. And there is no need to drag this chore out for as long as this game does.

Also, the Trophy shop should be guaranteed to display some trophies that you haven't gotten already. Seriously, in Melee and Kid Icarus Uprising, you could increase your odds to get a new trophy, so why not here?

And you should be able to toggle off stage hazards because stuff like the flying men is just way to overpowered for a 1on1.

I also subscribe that Custom moves and Custom Equipment shouldn't be linked like they are so that you can use custom moves on an even playing field.

Speaking of character Customization, all those Stat raising items should get dropped from the game. Seriously, all of them. Does anybody really like having to juggle hundredths of near identical items around when only like half a dozen of them can be displayed at once? Well, I don't so here is my alternate idea:

Just give the player a set amount of points that they can invest in any attribute they like. That's basically how the game already works, just way less complicated.

You could still have equipment related drops. You know those special abilities which are sometimes attached to those items? You could still farm those. Once you get them, you could freely apply them to the character in exchange for some of the skill points. Which is, once again, basically exactly what the game is doing already, just without all those hundreds of items that you have to find your way through.

Also, hair dye for Miis.

Edited November 3, 2014 by BrightBow

[Jedi]

This topic and most of its complaints are incredibly pretentious and stupid.

Goes to show that Sakurai and Namco can pour their very souls into a game and people can still think they didn't care or hate the effort they put in.

[S_Cero]

I agree with the omega only stages in online being stupid as well as custom moves being tied with equipment.

[kingddd]

The character select screen for Versus needs some work. I just can't comprehend what they were thinking when they put the "Ready For Battle" banner right over the portraits. That way, if you want to change the characters, you have to carefully move the cursor around that thing so that you actually manage to touch the tiny selectors and not the massive banner.

So the banner should be were it doesn't get in the way. Or it should be changed so that it says: "Press Start!" and that touching the banner itself won't actually do anything.

While the interface is stupid, it's not significant problem as you can just press the B button to get your character token automatically.

Edited November 3, 2014 by kingddd

[BrightBow]

While the interface is stupid, it's not significant problem as you can just press the B button to get your character token automatically.

You can do that to your own token but not to the CPU tokens. And you can't grab a CPU token as long as you haven't chosen a character for yourself. So this doesn't help that much.

[Comet]

This topic and most of its complaints are incredibly pretentious and stupid.

Goes to show that Sakurai and Namco can pour their very souls into a game and people can still think they didn't care or hate the effort they put in.

that's irrelevant. I don't care how much effort sakurai put into this game. If I don't like something, I don't like it.

[NinjaMonkey]

This topic and most of its complaints are incredibly pretentious and stupid.

Goes to show that Sakurai and Namco can pour their very souls into a game and people can still think they didn't care or hate the effort they put in.

Some people are just unappreciative arseholes, and there's nothing that anyone can do about it.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Some people are just unappreciative arseholes, and there's nothing that anyone can do about it.

while there are afew things i agree with, most of this is just nitpicking or people not understanding how video games work.

for example, clones take up almost no space and were put it to fill out the roster, the only spot that a clone character took was another clone character's.

[Master Awesome]

This topic and most of its complaints are incredibly pretentious and stupid.

Goes to show that Sakurai and Namco can pour their very souls into a game and people can still think they didn't care or hate the effort they put in.

Nintendo is a video game company. I'm sure Sakurai takes pride in his work, but Nintendo makes video games for its consumers, not for themselves. We have a right to complain if we want to.

That being said, some complaints and critics are a bit premature.

SNAAAAAAKE!!!!

[Ishi]

Uhh makin it so that its final destination no items fox only!

Joking those people really piss me off though in all honesty not buffing Zero Suit Samus that much and not nerfing Marth and Ike although the Ganondorf buff was really needed now im pretty good as him.

Oh and maybe some more FE representation like really all Awakening trophies really made me mad what about the other handhelds like even a Roy trophy be nice. Speaking of trophies maybe if they identified the DAMN GAMES there from! it just creates even more people who think Marth and Ike are from the same game.

[Jotari]

Uhh makin it so that its final destination no items fox only!

Joking those people really piss me off though in all honesty not buffing Zero Suit Samus that much and not nerfing Marth and Ike although the Ganondorf buff was really needed now im pretty good as him.

Oh and maybe some more FE representation like really all Awakening trophies really made me mad what about the other handhelds like even a Roy trophy be nice. Speaking of trophies maybe if they identified the DAMN GAMES there from! it just creates even more people who think Marth and Ike are from the same game.

Yes, this has upset me quite a bit. One aspect I love about Smash is finding out about games I've never heard of, like Shin Oni Gashema. I hope someone out there is making a translation for that one.

[Carter]

I think Lucas and Ice Climbers back would have made SSB4 better.

I've also a couple other things to list, but those were probably taken out for other reasons. I'd really want Special Battles to come back. Metal, Flower, STAMINA battles. I mean, Stamina Battles are CLEARLY able to run in the 3DS version (because Smash Run), so I don't see why they couldn't have brought it back as a simple match option.

Another thing would be to take out the Flying Man from Magicant. I love that stage to death, but I can't if that Flying Man gets in the way of everything. It seems like every single stage that has some stupid gimmick (exaggerating here). There are no "Smashvilles" in the 3DS version. I find the only stages I constantly fight on are Corneria, Yoshi's Island, Rainbow Road, and a few others. It'd be great if the blue flying platforms in Mute City were actually able to grab. Same goes for Mushroomy Kingdoms and those ledges.

[Jotari]

Ii seems as if the Final Destination mode made them feel like they didn't need to put as much effort into making relatively balanced stages.

Edited November 4, 2014 by Jotari

[Mighty Kamina]

Ii seems as if the Final Destination mode made them feel like they didn't need to put as much effort into making relatively balanced stages.

Well it's looking like there's going to be more quality stages on the Wii-U version...

This topic and most of its complaints are incredibly pretentious and stupid.

Goes to show that Sakurai and Namco can pour their very souls into a game and people can still think they didn't care or hate the effort they put in.

Gonna have to disagree with you here. Putting effort in doesn't always equal good things, and if people dislike something they don't have to just keep their mouth shut. I personally enjoy the game a lot, but I do have my own issues with it.

[Carter]

^ Yes.

I do enjoy the game, we're (or at least I am) just listing things we think could've been added to enhance SSB3DS. If I ask for a baker's cake, but it goes out differently than I thought, I won't just sit there with a cake I don't like. I think it's incredibly generous that someone would be donating their time like that, but people do have a right to say "no, I don't like it." Though I would agree that others might complain a bit more than others (not on SF, maybe YouTube xD) it's not necessary to call them assholes.

You gotta admit, you're not gonna sit there with a book you don't like and say "I love it".

It's not hating the effort they gave, it's just the end result. Smash 4 came to be an awesome game, but of course, we're always left wanting more. Sad, but isn't that, unfortunately, the way humans work?

[Florete]

-Theres a daisy and and blood falcon alt for peach and captain falcon, but why wasnt the name changed like bowser jr's alts?

Because that's not Daisy or Blood Falcon.

-Lucina's alts were characters in FEA that weren't her possible mothers. (besides Sumia) Cordelia alt was weird,because it just gives you some Chrom x Cordelia theories o_O I wanted a olivia alt, and maribelle alt too.Lissa alt could be replaced with maribelle,because incest is not wincest in smash bros :/

What?

-Lucas alt for ness

No

-Dr mario and dark pit should have just been alts. Maybe toon link,falco,and Lucina too

First two: Meh.

Other three: Hell no. Falco isn't even anything like Fox except for vaguely similar specials.

-Dixie alt for diddy

Literally makes no sense.

Speaking about Ice Climbers, aren't they pretty much useless without chaingrabs?

You should watch Nintendude.

This topic and most of its complaints are incredibly pretentious and stupid.

Goes to show that Sakurai and Namco can pour their very souls into a game and people can still think they didn't care or hate the effort they put in.

Gonna have to disagree with you here. Putting effort in doesn't always equal good things, and if people dislike something they don't have to just keep their mouth shut. I personally enjoy the game a lot, but I do have my own issues with it.

Normally I would agree with Monado Boy here, but after actually reading the topic, I have to agree with Jedi. Some complaints are reasonable, others are outright stupid.

My own personal complaints:

-The random nature of custom parts/moves. Getting repeats should not be a thing in the first place, and eventually new ones are ridiculously rare. Grinding out Classic is not fun.

-For Glory is a good start, but needs a lot of work. FD-only is dumb and basically makes it look like Sakurai took the "No items, Fox only, Final Destination" meme seriously, but it's just that; a meme. FD isn't even the most common stage in competitive play. If anything, it's one of the least common legal stages. Custom moves should also be allowed in For Glory (and everywhere online). I'm sure they could just make it so that any character build with equipment can't be selected. It feels like they wanted a mode to appease competitive players but didn't actually think it through well, if at all.

While there are characters I'd like to see, I don't feel like I have any justified complaints about the character roster.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

i want to ask you ice climber fans a question, do you understand why they were cut?

if you do, then you must understand why they couldn't make it in.

but if you are aware of this, and still aren't happy about it, that is perfectly understandable, i just wanna know if you all are in touch with reality.

also Lucas was removed because Japan hates mother 3 and the mother series is officially dead cause the creator stopped working on it. I can only guess why Wolf was removed though.