Rodykitty Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 *activates big shield* Come now, you know the RNG loves to hump the legs of generals and barons...I do enough hits to press my luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I do enough hits to press my luck. Bitch, we're packing silver lances, we don't fold like paper and you're wielding pansy swords. Hope you don't break that toothpick of a weapon first... Anywho, any thoughts on what else to do with the list aside from Kashim>Yubello? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Bitch, we're packing silver lances, we don't fold like paper and you're wielding pansy swords. Hope you don't break that toothpick of a weapon first...50 uses of a Hero Sword with at least 50 kills. You'll be done before they're gone.Anywho, any thoughts on what else to do with the list aside from Kashim>Yubello?I'm thinking of changing the tier names and giving Roshe his own tier between 'Bottom' and the fail tiers because I think the Bottom tier characters, while having huge flaws actually do have at least a particular use, while Roshe has no use whatsoever that outweighs anything any other character can do besides the tiers below him. Edited February 13, 2009 by Chainey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameAtAll Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 ....Unlike SOMEBODY ELSE I know... Endgame? :P And I agree about Roshe. I'm not the best at debating, but is there any real reason to use him when you'll already have Sirius? And maybe Roddie and Luke? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Also, before anyone says that he gets you a Silver Lance, so does Alan, and Alan gives you a Silver Lance during a time where a Silver Lance is actually going to come in handy. The Silver Lance Roshe gives is just another on top of a pile of weapons you now have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 50 uses of a Hero Sword with at least 50 kills. You'll be done before they're gone. *Sleep Staff* Where is your god now? I'm thinking of changing the tier names and giving Roshe his own tier between 'Bottom' and the fail tiers because I think the Bottom tier characters, while having huge flaws actually do have at least a particular use, while Roshe has no use whatsoever that outweighs anything any other character can do besides the tiers below him. How about "Has a Nice Weapon" Tier? We could place Astram (alive) at the bottom of it because keeping him alive penalizes you by not having 5 extra chapters of miracle blade, while Samuto can be middle due to sucking and Roshe on top for sucking, but brings a silver lance and doesn't need a promotion item to suck like Samuto. Astram (alive) you ask? Well it would be a way to differentiate his contribution to the team considering Astram (Dead) contributes to the team as well. Killing Asmuto forbids you from a free kill sword. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 How about "Has a Nice Weapon" Tier?You posted too late.We could place Astram (alive) at the bottom of it because keeping him alive penalizes you by not having 5 extra chapters of miracle blade, while Samuto can be middle due to sucking and Roshe on top for sucking, but brings a silver lance and doesn't need a promotion item to suck like Samuto.I'm not going to make more tiers just for ONE SPECIFIC ISSUE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 You posted too late.I'm not going to make more tiers just for ONE SPECIFIC ISSUE. *looks up at the two posts that beat me* Pardon me then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rodykitty Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Low and Bottom tiers renamed. New Bottom tier for Roshe. Kashim moves up yet again. This time, he may actually stay where he is considering Julian himself is a great unit. =Top Tier= Paola Sirius Katua Oguma Marth Linda =High Tier= Nabarl Feena Chainy Minerva Wendel Cecil Kain Roddy Luke Marisa Maric ==Upper-Mid Tier== Julian Kashim Yubello Elren Yumina Sheeda Abel George ==Lower-Mid Tier== Gordon Doga Samuto Machis Ryan Ricardo Medea Banetou Astoria ==Low Tier== Alan Chiki Warren ==Bottom Tier== Roshe =Bishop tier, based on hawtness= Lena Maria Elice Nyna =Fail= Est Samson =Worse than Est= (Insert large gap here) Sheema Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 I think putting Astoria (alive) and Astoria (dead) in the tier list wouldn't be a bad idea, to show the difference between killing him and recruiting him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Chiki lower than Alan now? At least put her in mid-tier below Astram or something. What, you want to make Chiki's offense suck worse than it already does?It won't suck. Same attack, same 1-2 range.um, why?I'm saying that's double 27K.hate to tell you this, but Chiki eats up EXP like any other unit. Especially with Fire Stones since she needs to kill a ton of enemies just so her offense can suck less.Like pretty much everyone below mid tier? Except that she doesn't need any EXP to start 2HKOing things like about half of mid tier needs.The rest doesn't matter. I think I should stop pushing my case beyond where people are going to argue against me. I can see Kashim going above Elren, unless Elren's usefulness outweighs Kashim's.Kashim was below Yubello? I thought Kashim was already above Yubello. Edited February 13, 2009 by Nathan Graves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) At least put her in mid-tier below Astram or something. MID tier? alololololololol uh, no. Since when did crap offense and decent durability equal mid tier? If that was the case Doga would have moved to like High. It won't suck. Same attack, same 1-2 range. only now she can't even kill dragons. I'm saying that's double 27K. and 36k is double 18k No, seriously. What the fuck are you getting at? Like pretty much everyone below mid tier? yes it's not a penalty to Chiki. It's not a penalty to Gordin. It's a penalty to nobody since it fucks over everybody equally. Except that she doesn't need any EXP to start 2HKOing things Yeah, and she's stuck on that gear forever. Other units may use EXP but at least they develop into something non-fail. Not sucking at one point>Always sucking. Gordin is one rounding by the time Chiki even joins so this point is totally null. Hell, he's BEEN one rounding for some time. And he doesn't use nearly as much cash as Chiki. Edited February 13, 2009 by Sweet Tooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) MID tier? alolololololololMy bad, lower-mid tier.uh, no. Since when did crap offense and decent durability equal mid tier? If that was the case Doga would have moved to like High.Read: Lower-mid tier.only now she can't even kill dragons.C14 or 15 (whichever she's first usable on). She two rounds half the things, and one rounds the other half.No, seriously. What the fuck are you getting at?Keep one fire dragon stone, sell the other fire and divine dragon stone.it's not a penalty to Chiki. It's not a penalty to Gordin. It's a penalty to nobody since it fucks over everybody equally.I'm saying she should be in lower-mid because that's the crowd she's comparable to, not Alan who doesn't grow stats or Warren who sucks in the stats he should be growing. Below Astram? Seems viable. Below Alan? Man, can Alan even two round past chapter 5 or 6?Yeah, and she's stuck on that gear forever. Other units may use EXP but at least they develop into something non-fail. Not sucking at one point>Always sucking.Chiki isn't "always sucking." Seriously, two rounding everything past C14/15 isn't fail especially since she has a 1-2 range on top of it so she essentially helps weaken units WHICH ALSO HELPS because she doesn't take much damage WHICH ALSO HELPS because she's transformed for like 6 or 7 turns or more at a time WHICH ALSO HELPS because your units don't have evade so it's hard to double attack without taking damage anyway.Gordin is one rounding by the time Chiki even joins so this point is totally null. Hell, he's BEEN one rounding for some time. And he doesn't use nearly as much cash as Chiki.Read my stance again. (posted right in the middle, and you appear to have read the entire rest of the post). Thanks. Edited February 13, 2009 by Nathan Graves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dat Nick Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Read: Lower-mid tier. That's not what you said originally, I'm not goddamn John Edward. C14 or 15 (whichever she's first usable on). She two rounds half the things Yeah. And two rounding sucks. Keep one fire dragon stone, sell the other fire and divine dragon stone. ...this still doesn't explain why the hell you pulled "27k is half of 54k" out of nowhere. I'm saying she should be in lower-mid because that's the crowd she's comparable to, not Alan who doesn't grow stats or Warren who sucks in the stats he should be growing. Only Alan and Warren were actually useful in the earlygame, Alan for softening Wyverns and tanking and Warren for a similar reason. Not to mention you don't blow a ton of gold on them. When was Chiki useful, again? Man, can Alan even two round past chapter 5 or 6? No, but at least Alan was useful at one point in the game, that's more than Chiki can say. Seriously, two rounding everything past C14/15 isn't fail Yes, it is. since she has a 1-2 range on top of it 1-2 range doesn't help her kill things any faster, which is her problem. so she essentially helps weaken units WHICH ALSO HELPS How does it help when you can just wipe the sucker out in one round? because she doesn't take much damage WHICH ALSO HELPS Except your units don't take much damage in the first place since what's dead can't hurt you, and the wounds you do take can just be healed away. because she's transformed for like 6 or 7 turns or more at a time WHICH ALSO HELPS ....And all my units are running at full capacity EVERY turn, so how the fuck does this help Chiki? because your units don't have evade exaggeration, much? Dragons have balls for hit. You can cut their hit down to fifty without any terrain. That's not bad at all in a one RN system, plus when you factor in crit rates the chances of you taking damage go BELOW 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 That's not what you said originally, I'm not goddamn John Edward.Mid below Astram, lower-mid etc. There is no mid tier.Yeah. And two rounding sucks.Kinda like the lower half of lower-mid eh?...this still doesn't explain why the hell you pulled "27k is half of 54k" out of nowhere.If you read the original point like I did... then you'd know.Only Alan and Warren were actually useful in the earlygame, Alan for softening Wyverns and tanking and Warren for a similar reason. Not to mention you don't blow a ton of gold on them.You don't blow "a ton of Gold" on Chiki either. especially considering no one even showed me why Gold was so low in this game especially since you're selling a bunch of stat boosters and dragonstones.No, but at least Alan was useful at one point in the game, that's more than Chiki can say.Alan really isn't doing much better than Marth and the cavaliers and any other offensive unit you've got, especially considering Palla does his job a hell of a lot better in C3 anyway.Yes, it is.No, it's not?1-2 range doesn't help her kill things any faster, which is her problem.Helps everyone else do so. The stone may not be free, but the breath is and it conserves item uses to. To the point where you can use Irons against certain enemies as a result.How does it help when you can just wipe the sucker out in one round? Except your units don't take much damage in the first place since what's dead can't hurt you, and the wounds you do take can just be healed away.Isn't it easier to just... not heal everyone when they attack?And really you're bitching about lack of Funds when live staffs cost 1000 Gold a pop. And you're also saying that a Fire Stone, EVEN A DIVINE STONE, which costs 1000 per use (Silver Card) (2000 for divine stone) that lasts for 6 or 7 turns to prevent said damage in the first place is much more convenient? Especially since the Fire stone lasts during enemy phase and can attack basically anything that attacks it during that time? Really? ....And all my units are running at full capacity EVERY turn, so how the fuck does this help Chiki?It sure doesn't hinder her considering most of your units will probably be out of a job by then anyway.exaggeration, much?Dragons have balls for hit. You can cut their hit down to fifty without any terrain. That's not bad at all in a one RN system, plus when you factor in crit rates the chances of you taking damage go BELOW 50%. Dragons are pretty much beyond C20. They're not the dominating enemies C20 and prior.And then? Normal enemies don't have "balls for hit." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fruitloop Multipuck Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Personally, I'd consolidate the silly "Fail" and "worse than Est" tiers both into Bottom Tier. Doesn't make sense to have a tier worse than Bottom, and you don't need 3 tiers for 4 units. And make Machis above Samuto happen. Edited February 13, 2009 by Fruitloop Multipuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 (edited) Ok ok, I smell BS on BOTH of your sides! Quit getting angry and yelling at each other! Can't you see you're in love!? Anyways, to get to my point. Sweet Tooth, in the castlevanian hack of a hero's defense, enemies in chapter 19 are serious hard asses. People have trouble doubling the heroes, Snipers can actually manage crit on your lower luck guys, Generals are tough as hell, there's a fucking EARTH DRAGON there, and HE is no joke either. Chiki can help her thanks to great move, undefendable damage and range, but he cannot hype this because ANYTHING outside the meteor sages can double her, but her resistance helps her possibly distract the meteor sages. She can be torn apart in this chapter, you can't allow her to be targeted. Acting like she can be a tank is a joke and a dumb one at that. But NG, this is one chapter. Everyone's doing fine before and after. After are fail barbarians and when dragons start to actually suck. Chiki's not being any major combat help outside of chapter 19. Nathan Graves, in defense of the incredibly obscure and completely anonymous video game character, Warren and Alan have their earlygame use. Alan is helping chip away at the hard-ass dragon knights and tanking them while Warren is helping severely weakening them. Chiki is...having trouble in a chapter where everyone's having trouble. Now kiss and make up you two! Edited February 13, 2009 by Grandjackal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Fail Barbarians? The ones with 18 Defense and 47 HP and like 38 attack? Everyone's suffering or whatever depending on the way you want to view it; there's also the 15/20 Def/Res Dragons with 50 HP. Divine stone helps here pretty well, not like a Dragon Killer but it's still good seeing as she only needs one or two uses per chapter. Hell, the fact that she doesn't do anything special, but in fact does it well enough is enough to go out of low tier. Alan is somewhat useless past C3; same with Warren. As for the Earth Dragon, you can say with a straight face you're having anything fight against that? I'm not even arguing her very high if you've read anything I'm saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Yes, I do mean those barbarians who were dumb enough to space themselves way apart. The demon dragons then show up. Chiki indeed isn't helping as much as dragonslayers. How badly? Well, considering everyone not an archer or mage should have a dragonslayer when you enter endgame and those units shouldn't be anything purposefully fail... By the way, the chapter with the earth dragon and HIM is the time I was trying to HELP your argument. She CAN help with this chapter, I'm AGREEING with you here. People are having trouble doubling the heroes and snipers while having a hard time killing the tough generals. Besides, can't chiki do real actual damage to the earth dragon? Well...with the divine stone at least...But it helps make a safer route to the throne rather than having to go through the drain mage and sniper all at once while having another angle to attack HIM from. See? It helps her... But you ARE hyping her here. She's only helping in this one chapter because everyone's having trouble in this one chapter. Outside of that...everyone does better than her and she can't tank as well as one would think thanks to always 0 AS and enemies actually having AS in this game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Share Posted February 13, 2009 especially considering no one even showed me why Gold was so low in this game especially since you're selling a bunch of stat boosters and dragonstones. If you play the game, you'd know that the gold you get is, in fact, low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 I'm playing the game now for the sake of enemy stats, so I'm abusing the hell out of the arena. I'm arguing it also based upon what I've seen. Clearly, Gold was never an issue for me. Outside of that...everyone does better than her and she can't tank as well as one would think thanks to always 0 AS and enemies actually having AS in this game.I'm arguing her above people who really can't do much later on in the game, whereas Chiki can do at least somewhat well. Well enough for the bottom of low-mid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grandjackal Posted February 13, 2009 Share Posted February 13, 2009 Gufaw! Bottom of low mid. She's at best getting above Samuto (or Matthis, who is looking to overtake Samuto.) Doga and Gordon? Nuh-uh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Bottom of low mid is above all of... 5 units. But relativity matters less to me; I don't think Chiki's so useless as to get to Low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Spoon Posted February 14, 2009 Author Share Posted February 14, 2009 Bottom of low mid is above all of... 5 units. But relativity matters less to me; I don't think Chiki's so useless as to get to Low. I think she is though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted February 14, 2009 Share Posted February 14, 2009 Cool story bro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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