FE8 Efficiency Redux Redux

[General Horace]

so I know I've already done this twice but I was watching my old run and was like "wow I suck at FE" and realized how many more turns I could save with better exp allocation and better overall play. I made it a rule to not post a topic as far as efficiency runs are concerned until they are completed because I usually get lazy at some point and then I don't end up finishing (fact) or just update very sparatically, but this time I want to ask for advice and help and stuff.

I am in the midst of a practice run so far, and as of chapter 8, I've cut off three turns so far, but the next chapters are a bit more complicated. I'm gonna put my tl;dr notes down and hopefully people will comment. A lot of it is actually pointless blabber and unrelated, but the late chapters actually have some questions i'd like help with, along with differences in character levels so far. Note that chapter 10 onwards are just guesses.

PROLOGUE

- virtually the same as any run, standard

OLD RUN 1/1 TURNS

EIRIKA 1.32

SETH 1.49

NEW TURN

EIRIKA 1.32

SETH 1,49

CHAPTER 1

- better exp allocation allows Franz to level here, unarming seth on turn 1 so he can kill the two fighters nearest the start

OLD RUN 3/4 TURNS

NEW RUN 3/4 TURNS

didn't record stats but Franz has like ~40 more exp

CHAPTER 2

- considered rigging Eirika crits on the boss and a fighter to the south to get her more exp, but it turns out she doesn't really need it as much as I thought.

- I make sure Garcia/Ross miss the archer to the far right so Vanessa can kill it, he has to have 4 speed so Garcia doesn't double.

OLD/NEW 4/8-4/8 TURNS

FRANZ 2.14/2.49

EIRIKA 1.62/3.07

VANESSA 1.00/2.12

SETH 2.61/2.44

CHAPTER 3

- having more levels on Eirika allows me to be able to drop her so Seth doesn't eat all the exp, saving some for Franz

- Vanessa needs level 3 to kill the dudes by lute village

OLD/NEW 4/12-4/12

FRANZ 2.35/3.95

EIRIKA 1.83/3.39

VANESSA 1.23/3.08

SETH 3.22/2.94

CHAPTER 4

-slight enemy stat massaging is needed, Eirika needs to be able to ORKO one of the top zombie dudes to level up in str to guarentee a kill on the rest

- instead of having gilliam kill the north reinforcements eirika does

- instead of having garcia kill the south dudes Vanessa does

OLD/NEW 2/14-2/14 TURNS

FRANZ 3.57/5.04

EIRIKA 2.26/4.58

VANESSA 1.70/4.30

SETH 4.40/4.14

CHAPTER 5

pretty similar to old run but Gilliam and Garcia are only deployed to get a village and help others get exp

- idk if artur will be able to get as much exp since mounts are stronger overall

FRANZ 4.35/6.19

EIRIKA 2.96/5.49

VANESSA 1.82/4.95

SETH 5.28/4.89

ARTUR 3.76/3.77

OLD/NEW 3/17-3/17 TURNS

CHAPTER 5X

-hawkkings 6turn strat

- no killer lance though, will it matter? can i still kill the chapter 12 spiders?

OLD/NEW 7/24-6/23 TURNS

CHAPTER 6

- send seth north instead of through the middle, allowing Franz to get most of the middle exp

FRANZ 4.73/8.64

EIRIKA 4.06/6.19

VANESSA 2.06/6.08

SETH 6.16/5.83

ARTUR 4.60/4.10

OLD/NEW 3/27-3/26 TURNS

- sacrificed a lot of artur's exp, but I need paladin Franz for chapter 8

CHAPTER 7

- ALL THE RIGGING

- vanessa needs to dodge a ~40% hit ballista and two ~60% archers, only the ballista OHKO's

- vanessa may need dragonshield so Murray attacks Eirika instead of her despite Vanessa not being able to counter

- Eirika needs 7str/14speed to orko Murray, he uses the steel sword instead of javelin

- Franz must hit level 10

OLD/NEW 4/31-3/29 TURNS

FRANZ 5.14/10/1.00

EIRIKA 4.06/7.09

VANESSA 2.06/6.56

SETH 7.04/5.91

ARTUR 5.53/5.01

CHAPTER 8

-seth must have 18 strength so he can ORKO Tirado with the armourslayer

OLD/NEW 5/36-4/32 TURNS

FRANZ 5.14//10/1.85

EIRIKA 4.06/8.22

VANESSA 2.64/7.03

SETH 8.39/6.94

ARTUR 6.47/6.02

FORDE 8.81/8.35

CHAPTER 9

-recruit amelia for speedwings then trade them away and sacrifice her to the enemy?

OLD/NEW 6/42-5/37 TURNS

EDIT 4 turns is a thing

CHAPTER 10

OLD/NEW 3/45-3/40

EDIT 2 TURNS, is sub 70 overall a thing?

CHAPTER 11

- ranger gerik? I don't think i need the hero combat or 1-2 range and another horse with stats is awesome, also longbow

- is 4 turns possible? I think so. too lazy to look up enemy stats on the deathgoyle boss

OLD/NEW 5/50-4/44

CHAPTER 12

- i dont think 5 turns is a thing, i'd have to see how good vanessa/tana are at that point

OLD/NEW 6/56-6/50

CHAPTER 13

- 1 turn is really easy base saleh only needs one magic proc to 4HKO Aias.

OLD/NEW 2/58-1/51

CHAPTER 14

- with ranger gerik im pretty sure i can 6 turn this chapter with the ss, we'll see though thats theory emblem.

OLD/NEW 8/66-6/57

CHAPTER 15

-with both tana and vanessa promoted im sure 4 turns is a distinct possability.

OLD/NEW 5/71-4/61

CHAPTER 16

will artur not suck at warping? i'm debating giving him the energy rings, and have saleh just have 100% magic growth since Saleh won't have warp in time for this chapter, then have Saleh have the magic 26 magic needed for warping in chapter 20 and endgame. with three energy rings, im sure Artur will have the required 24 magic needed to 1 turn this chapter. Moulder will also need to have enough magic to boost eirika far enough, but with torch and barrier spam, im sure he'll make it easily.

OLD/NEW 2/73-1/62 TURNS

CHAPTER 17

lol

OLD/NEW 1/74-1/63 TURNS

CHAPTER 18

with better warp useage 4 turns is possible

OLD/NEW 5/79-4/67

CHAPTER 19

lol

OLD/NEW 1/80-1/68

CHAPTER 20

will saleh have 26 magic? Probably.

OLD/NEW 1/81-1/69

ENDGAME

fuck Lyon if i can kill him im rigging crits

OLD/NEW 3/84-2/71

[spoiler=TCS]

CHAPTER PR - http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=43587&p=2699370 1 TURNS

CHAPTER 01 - http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=43587&p=2701360 3 TURNS

CHAPTER 02 - http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=43587&p=2701455 4 TURNS

CHAPTER 03 - 4 TURNS

CHAPTER 04 - 2 TURNS

CHAPTER 05 - 3 TURNS

CHAPTER 5X - 6 TURNS

CHAPTER 06 - 2 TURNS

CHAPTER 07 - 3 TURNS

CHAPTER 08 - 5 TURNS

CHAPTER 09 - 3 TURNS

CHAPTER 10 - 2 TURNS

CHAPTER 11 - 3 TURNS

TURNS SO FAR - 42 TURNS

I know a majority of this is pretty vauge but it all makes sense to me. If you see anywhere that seems unrealistic or anywhere you think can be improved on, say something! Please!

Edited October 25, 2013 by General Horace

[Ema Skye]

Woah 71 turns is like FE13 level. That's pretty sweet.

[Refa]

I bet Tana will be better than Vanessa.

[Ice Sage]

71 turns bro? damn that is nice.

Ranger Gerik eh? another horse unit sounds good.

gonna test it out?

[Espinosa]

I remember being mesmerised by your previous run (I was doing the same run at the time and it was quite a bit worse); looks like we've both got better at the game since then.

Some comments:

- Franz could kill the first AK boss if you're in a rush to promote him by chapter 8 (saves a turn whether you're going for the whip or not)

- In the first monster rout, Garcia actually is best routing the northeastern reinforcements since he has WTA and doubles at base. But with max optimisation it's Vanessa/Eirika/Franz/Seth I guess.

- Consider obtaining the whip (costs 1 turn with 2 Paladins and a fuckton of effort).

- Vanessa could probably use even more training, gaining above average str and def.

- The first FoW map can be 2-turned if Vanessa survives the first EP while weighed down by Seth.

- Chapter 9 should be lower than 5 turns with a good Vanessa. iirc SB got 4 turns? I think beamcrash got 3?

- Chapter 10 can be 2-turned without a single promoted flier.

- C11 should be a 4-turn with your 8 move unit(-s) taking the RHS with Tethys. I don't see why Innes wouldn't use the Longbow instead of Gerik. Not sure if Ranger Gerik is suitable for this at all, depends on who will be fighting for you in the desert.

- C14: what does Gerik contribute of note when you will have at least 3 8-move units? 4 with early WK Vanessa.

- I still haven't seen anyone 4-turn chapter 18 on HM and though you and Hawk King assure me it's doable I don't see it at all. Not a problem of warp usage but rather participants and the number of eggs. Most likely you'll bust your ass making sure stuff like Stone Gorgon decides to suicide unto you instead of going for the status and even then I'm not positive there's a chance of success; welp good luck.

- Endgame bosses could be pierced if Vanessa was treated well and took the whip.

- Another alternative: Vanessa being good enough to do everything WK Vanessa can do with 7 move and crappy Con but good luck making the RNG your bitch for this.

The two main difficulties would be reaching the 24 mag/A staves with Artur/Saleh and having a super cool Vanessa.

[General Horace]

I remember being mesmerised by your previous run (I was doing the same run at the time and it was quite a bit worse); looks like we've both got better at the game since then.

Some comments:

- Franz could kill the first AK boss if you're in a rush to promote him by chapter 8 (saves a turn whether you're going for the whip or not)

- In the first monster rout, Garcia actually is best routing the northeastern reinforcements since he has WTA and doubles at base. But with max optimisation it's Vanessa/Eirika/Franz/Seth I guess.

- Consider obtaining the whip (costs 1 turn with 2 Paladins and a fuckton of effort).

- Vanessa could probably use even more training, gaining above average str and def.

- The first FoW map can be 2-turned if Vanessa survives the first EP while weighed down by Seth.

- Chapter 9 should be lower than 5 turns with a good Vanessa. iirc SB got 4 turns? I think beamcrash got 3?

- Chapter 10 can be 2-turned without a single promoted flier.

- C11 should be a 4-turn with your 8 move unit(-s) taking the RHS with Tethys. I don't see why Innes wouldn't use the Longbow instead of Gerik. Not sure if Ranger Gerik is suitable for this at all, depends on who will be fighting for you in the desert.

- C14: what does Gerik contribute of note when you will have at least 3 8-move units? 4 with early WK Vanessa.

- I still haven't seen anyone 4-turn chapter 18 on HM and though you and Hawk King assure me it's doable I don't see it at all. Not a problem of warp usage but rather participants and the number of eggs. Most likely you'll bust your ass making sure stuff like Stone Gorgon decides to suicide unto you instead of going for the status and even then I'm not positive there's a chance of success; welp good luck.

- Endgame bosses could be pierced if Vanessa was treated well and took the whip.

- Another alternative: Vanessa being good enough to do everything WK Vanessa can do with 7 move and crappy Con but good luck making the RNG your bitch for this.

The two main difficulties would be reaching the 24 mag/A staves with Artur/Saleh and having a super cool Vanessa.

I'm all for some RNG abuse, but the two turn for chapter 6 is a little too much. She has slim to no chance of surviving without the archer attacking her, and the archer does. I don't think Franz would be able to hit level 10 without the exp gained from the chapter anyway, and Vanessa would gain none as well, which would further limit her performance.

I can't think of a way to two turn chapter 10. Sure you could drop Eirika across, but the Myrmidon in front of Pablo won't move since he'll have no attack target, since the archer won't move either.

I might be able to 4 turn chapter 9 looking at it, but I think there is one problem enemy that my non franz/seth units can't kill on time or something. I think it is possible though.

also when referencing a beamcrash playthrough, you have to remember its japanese fe8, which has different secret shop items, and also on normal mode, hence weaker enemies, and less enemies and more or less 100% growths

EDIT: also the whip can't possible be gotten before turn 6, meaning it would cost two turns that it probably wouldn't save.

EDIT2: I also think i see the two turn chapter 10, you put the weaker peg defensively by the post so the archer moves south (hopefully he doesn't use the ballista), otherwise, I don't see it. I'd really have to make Vanessa strong in order to ORKO Pablo though.

Edited October 11, 2013 by General Horace

[Espinosa]

Vanessa's survival would depend on the level-ups she had got prior to that. But yeah, it's very difficult to achieve.

Yeah, the Japanese version has buyable stat boosters (Mouldah ends up being the endgame warper because of Sage caps), siege tomes and an accessible Berserker staff apparently (the combination makes 2-turning the desert possible; however, beamcrash rigs a 1% pierce since he promoted his pegs only before the chapter).

I think there's a possibility of the enemies in C10 behaving differently depending on your fliers' and Eirika's defensive stats. Have a look at this screenshot from my Females Only run:

With +2 str and/or spd, Tana can ORKO the Myrm with a Slimcrit. One of the archers suicides unto Vanessa while the other moves away, not blocking Eirika's path to the gate. Note that my Vanessa didn't use her full movement on turn 1.

[PKL]

I remember back when I drafted FE8, I had undrafted Tana suicide and took the penalty because my team was so bad for the chapter that I had to or it wouldve taken really long. When Tana suicides, Eirika is placed in front of Pablo, but getting rid of a flier is always a no-no unless its an undrafted in drafts. Why did I say this? IDK

Good luck with the run Horace. Hopefully you finish!

[General Horace]

Yeah I see the 2 turn now. Convince me to get the whip though, it's going to cost me two turns to get. I just don't see where it would help, maybe 5 turning chapter 12? I can 4 turn chapter 9 with unpromoted Nessie.

[Hawk King]

Like PKL said, Suicide Tana can get you a 2 turn. Or rigging a crit like Epinosa's example.

Chp 6 - You can rescue/drop Franz over the mountain then have Garcia rescue Seth on turn 1. This gets Franz a bunch of exp and increases Nessie's survival.

Chp 8 - The whip can be obtained in a 5 turn clear. Eirika needs ridiculous HP/DEF and/or a bunch of lucky dodges.

Chp 11 - Definitely 4 turnable. 8 move flyer goes South and kills both bosses (or 7 move rescue/drops Franz/Seth). Tethys is free to dance your Torch spammer on every turn.

Chp 12 - Pretty sure 5 is possible with promoted Nessie.

Chp 15 - Epinosa 3 turned it with only girls.

Chp 18 - 4 turns I assume would require 3 Warpers. I am really curious if this is possible or not. I think it is.

[General Horace]

Like PKL said, Suicide Tana can get you a 2 turn. Or rigging a crit like Epinosa's example.

Chp 6 - You can rescue/drop Franz over the mountain then have Garcia rescue Seth on turn 1. This gets Franz a bunch of exp and increases Nessie's survival.

Chp 8 - The whip can be obtained in a 5 turn clear. Eirika needs ridiculous HP/DEF and/or a bunch of lucky dodges.

Chp 11 - Definitely 4 turnable. 8 move flyer goes South and kills both bosses (or 7 move rescue/drops Franz/Seth). Tethys is free to dance your Torch spammer on every turn.

Chp 12 - Pretty sure 5 is possible with promoted Nessie.

Chp 15 - Epinosa 3 turned it with only girls.

Chp 18 - 4 turns I assume would require 3 Warpers. I am really curious if this is possible or not. I think it is.

For chapter 8, I assume you dump Eirika off along the way to the throne, and she kills the boss while the paladins bust the wall down for the whip? It's possible I could rescuechain Joshua up if Eirika is OHKO'd. But the chapter 6 suggestion is really clever, way more reliable. With the Whip, chapter 15 should be easy and if nessie is good enough, I think chapter 12 is 5 turns. It'll all come down to if I can get Saleh to warp on time for chapter 18. At the worst, he can use rescue after being warped.

[Hawk King]

Thats a great idea for the Rescue staff. Other than the 1 use on Chp 20, I have no idea where else to use the other 2 Rescues.

edit:

Chp 8 - Yeah, Eirika needs to basically solo the throne room and 1RKO Tirado. Both Paladins and Nessie need to go get the Whip. And Nessie + Seth's STR needs to be 30...

Edited October 11, 2013 by Hawk King

[Espinosa]

I'd like to recommend trying to 3-turn chapter 9. Send one Paladin (and back-up in 2 Cavs) west while Vanessa and Tana carry two units south (maybe Seth and a good Artur?). Tana may not get any level-ups this way so this could hinder your chances of ORKOing the C10 Myrm (not sure how low his stats could be).

[General Horace]

I'd like to recommend trying to 3-turn chapter 9. Send one Paladin (and back-up in 2 Cavs) west while Vanessa and Tana carry two units south (maybe Seth and a good Artur?). Tana may not get any level-ups this way so this could hinder your chances of ORKOing the C10 Myrm (not sure how low his stats could be).

i've been busy doing birthday and thanksgiving things, and I only saw this now

I don't think it's possible to kill the nonagressive pirates in time, to be honest. The bottom half isn't a problem I don't think, Vanessa and Seth should be able to clear out the bottom in 3 turns easy.

[General Horace]

So i've started recording the videos now finally, before I start posting them on youtube though, would anyone care for commentary? I've never done it before but this will almost for sure be my last run of this game, and I do end up getting a lot of comments about the videos that I usually explain in the youtube description nobody reads, but regardless, yay or nay?

Also prepare for stupid level ups regardless.

[Espinosa]

Go for it.

I remember watching dondon's HHM run and I just couldn't understand anything because he was talking too fast, so I hope you provide some written notes as well.

[General Horace]

yeah i'll still do a summary for people like me that go to the video page, see the tc, and read the video description instead of watching the video ;P

on a somewhat related note, I'm sick right now, so I probably won't start till the weekend, unless the cough disappears.

Edited October 17, 2013 by General Horace

[dondon151]

i'm also a fast talker but i think i've gotten better at slowing down

one thing that i didn't do for FE7 that i will almost surely try to do for FE6 is to coordinate talking points with things that happen in the video.

[Irysa]

Do it! I loved watching dondon's fe7 commentary videos, I'm sad that he never finished doing putting commentary on them all.

[Hawk King]

Sound like a good idea. I suggest speeding up the Enemy phases if you can. Thats the most boring part and it makes videos become way too long.

[General Horace]

Yeah, that's not a bad idea. I usually hit the fastforward key out of habit every once in a while on the enemy (and player) phases anyway, but you're right, people don't really want to see Seth smack 10 zombies at normal speed.

I've recorded up to chapter 7 for now, I'll probably try getting some of the early chapters up today sometime.

[dondon151]

i don't personally do that because i feel like it cheapens the integrity of the video.

if you optimize your execution, you can save a minute to two per chapter just by shaving time off your player phase actions. i would highly suggest doing that because it does also make the videos more impressive to watch.

[PKL]

Don't speed up enemy phases. It makes it look crappy and like dondon said, cheapens it. Besides, most of the action in FE occurs in EP so...also, last run of this game? ;_;

[Espinosa]

also, last run of this game? ;_;

I found this weird too.

Anyway, I don't share the enthusiasm about shortening enemy phases either. Now you're impatient to watch them without being sped up, tomorrow you'll be more impatient and not watch them anyway even at 3x speed (2x speed-up is built into the embedded players on the forums if you really want it, coincidentally).

I'm cool with whatever turboing you do as long as we can see what happened (how much damage was taken, how much exp was gained etc). Some of these details were missing in your previous run too, and I think I'd rather spend an extra couple hours watching the whole thing properly than having a compressed experience with details missing.

[General Horace]

i honestly don't mean to turbo it, it's just an instinct when I play fe on the computer now, haha. looking that the first 9 chapters, it doesn't appear to be too bad.

more people appear to be against the sped up EP's so I guess i'll leave them in.

also for last run of the game, i meant last recorded run