Marthur Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Note: this post was authorized by Tangerine. Hello everyone, Considering that Jyo is apparently spitting on the work of contributors, I've decided to take a few steps: First, I have taken the FE4 ending generator page down. Originally, it was an effort to gather people and finish the FE4 translation. It proved to be fruitful, but since I want to avoid people stealing the hard work of Summerwolf, AceNoctali, and TheEnd [TheEnd only translated one line really but he was still credited ahah]), it won't be available anymore. Also, I've been the one editing the Fujimori Nuts manga for AceNoctali, and I guess this falls in the same category since this is an "illegal translation". So I refuse to do any more work for a community that's simply greedy and disrespectful towards one's work. I'll gladly do the edits in French if AceNoctali comes back, but as far as the English community goes, well it's too bad, but Ace will have to find a different editor. So expect the next update in ten years or so. As a fun fact, I completed chapter 12, but Ace didn't come back to post it. Oh, it was an enjoyable read too. The Fire Emblem Gaiden manga is down too. Another fun fact: I was the one who requested TheEnd to translate it after scanlating and cleaning it (which took me 11 months and cost me 7 bucks :) ). TheEnd didn't want to share it outside the FE4Thread at first, and I was the one who insisted and convinced him to do otherwise, because I thought the community deserved it. What was I thinking back then? Next, I'll be taking my fanarts down, and will not be taking any more requests. Hey I don't own the original FE characters, and you neither. So don't complain if someone steals your art and re-use it. Also Jyo's reply in a PM was basically, "if you're not here to defend your own work, then anybody can do whatever they want with it lol" Also, some emoticons will be removed. These changes are temporary. They might change if the community's attitude changes. Good day to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikethfc Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Awww it almost reminds me of my litle sister's temper tantrums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Just to make a couple things clear: I don't mind the thread being posted, as I am not going to even begin to suggest I have any right to tell you you can't voice an opinion or update people on your work's status, and I'm glad you made the revisions I suggested. Just keep it clean, everyone. I don't wanna see Jyo bashing or Marthur bashing or whatever, otherwise I'll close the thread. If anyone is unhappy about the decision that was made, make a ticket about it or PM the staff members involved, that's really the best thing for anyone to do if you have a complaint about a staff decision. It keeps the forum free from drama :P. So yeah, continue in a civilized manner, haha! I'll be watching the thread in case it blows up. Edited April 23, 2012 by Tangerine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 why can't we just all get along ): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OrangeCrush980 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Good decision Marthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hey TheEnd, remember when you asked me "What kind of childish logic is that?" in response to me going "And don't say "Oh well in that case I just wont Translate FE12 anymore" " Right here. It's perfectly alright for this to be your choice Marthur, but it's the act of a child's temper tantrum, and not something I expect of someone who's supposed to be an adult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) ITT protesting an action = tantrum now. What is this, people who express their discontentment with an admin decision is now considered childish? Is one not allowed to protest at authority if one feel their judgement was not the right one? Anyway, I understand where Marthur is coming from in regards to this protest, being also one of the artist community myself. I can also see Jyo's point, however, so I'll remain neutral in this. But I'll support Marthur's decision. Edited April 23, 2012 by Luminescent Blade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 >12 guests viewing this topic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenlord Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Could someone summarize what are Marthur's and Jyosuas positions and how they are different? I don't care to read through all the drama again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEnd Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Hey TheEnd, remember when you asked me "What kind of childish logic is that?" in response to me going "And don't say "Oh well in that case I just wont Translate FE12 anymore" " Right here. It's perfectly alright for this to be your choice Marthur, but it's the act of a child's temper tantrum, and not something I expect of someone who's supposed to be an adult. Stopping a project because a random kid provoked me would be childish. Stopping it because the site hosting it allows it to be plagiarized or altered with impunity, however, is protecting the result of my hard work. It isn't the act of stopping that's childish - it's the motive. So, nope. If you want to quote someone out of context, go after someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onmi Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Could someone summarize what are Marthur's and Jyosuas positions and how they are different? I don't care to read through all the drama again... Popo and Banzai both edited Fire Lizards script of FE6 and 5 respectively for their respective patches. Fire Lizard him/herself is unavailable for seeking permission and has been for 5 odd years, Fire Lizard asked that the scripts not be used without his/her permission. Jyosuas position is it's a Fantranslation, no one holds any legal copyright anyway since it's not officially endorsed by Nintendo or Intelligent Systems anyway, and there's absolutely no case. Marthur's position is this is shitting all over what Fire Lizard requested, and spitting all over any provider ever. There's a whole lot of other stuff, but that's the bare minimum. Basically Jyosua is saying that Popo/Banzai can post their patches on the site, keep in mind they wouldn't be replacing Fire Lizards and they wouldn't be claiming to have translated the game. And Marthur is saying they shouldn't be allowed to, and is pulling her stuff until Jyosua rescinds. Edited April 23, 2012 by Onmi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenlord Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Ok, I have in general very relaxed attitude with copyright, so I'd side with Jyos here. I could at this point go on a huge wall of text to justify my position, but I'm going to spare you from it. To summarize my position, I believe that the usage of something as important to the fandom as FE6 translation should be judged by the benefits of it to the fandom instead to the original creators, especially as they have stopped working on it. The same would apply to all the possible edits, too. For me, seeing my creations live their own life and improve without my input would be the highest compliment I could get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I like how everyone is suddenly trying exert their so-called copyright holdings over things that they don't actually have the ability or legality to copyright. Why is this a surprise to everyone? Regardless, I'm sorry for the trouble all of this has caused. As per my thread, I've been giving you guys a blow-by-blow account of my attempts to contact the original translators and team, and continue to be on the lookout for new leads. Of the original team--Eaichu, Leafy, Otosareta Tenshi, Dark Twilkitri, FireLizard, and Rosa Aquafire--I've established contact with and received approval from three of the six users who worked on this directly. I've sent multiple messages to FieLizard, all of which have been unanswered or have been sent back to me as undeliverable. I'm not sure if Banzai has made any attempt, you'll have to question him about that directly, but I intend to keep looking. Also, as I've stated previously, there was never any intent to claim the base of the translation as my own, or otherwise remove the original team from the documentation. Full credit will be given at all opportunities. This was never in question and never negotiable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthur Posted April 23, 2012 Author Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) Ok, I have in general very relaxed attitude with copyright, so I'd side with Jyos here. I could at this point go on a huge wall of text to justify my position, but I'm going to spare you from it. To summarize my position, I believe that the usage of something as important to the fandom as FE6 translation should be judged by the benefits of it to the fandom instead to the original creators, especially as they have stopped working on it. The same would apply to all the possible edits, too. For me, seeing my creations live their own life and improve without my input would be the highest compliment I could get. Or the biggest insult considering some of those improvements are merely subjective and the people making them often don't have the basic knowledge to do those changes. I like how everyone is suddenly trying exert their so-called copyright holdings over things that they don't actually have the ability or legality to copyright. Why is this a surprise to everyone? How is this new? OHBUTWAIT I didn't have any rights over those sprites since the original characters weren't mine! Guess I was wrong back then. My bad! More seriously, people know that I've always been particularly adamant about such problems.I don't care what you think of because of my views btw. Regardless, I'm sorry for the trouble all of this has caused. As per my thread, I've been giving you guys a blow-by-blow account of my attempts to contact the original translators and team, and continue to be on the lookout for new leads. Of the original team--Eaichu, Leafy, Otosareta Tenshi, Dark Twilkitri, FireLizard, and Rosa Aquafire--I've established contact with and received approval from three of the six users who worked on this directly. I've sent multiple messages to FieLizard, all of which have been unanswered or have been sent back to me as undeliverable. I'm not sure if Banzai has made any attempt, you'll have to question him about that directly, but I intend to keep looking. Also, as I've stated previously, there was never any intent to claim the base of the translation as my own, or otherwise remove the original team from the documentation. Full credit will be given at all opportunities. This was never in question and never negotiable. As for your edits, I don't have any particular problem with them since you did manage to get Eaichu's permission. As for Banzai, I've already told the staff, that the most sensible thing for him to do would be to send his changes directly to FireLizard. If the latter approved them, nobody would complain, if you don't get any reply? Just suck it up and make your own translation. Vincent didn't steal Paora's FE3 Book I script to make his own translation as far as I know, even though she's been dead for ten years. He made his own one. And he also managed to get everyone's permission to simply host all the scripts on his site. My only problem is with Jyosua allowing people to use your work if you are dead. As I've already posted : A translation has the same status as your art/fiction, etc... I acknowledge his decision and that's why I have removed my works. No more, no less. Edited April 23, 2012 by Marthur Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaggle of Geese Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 You know, I wanted to post something, but then I realized there are no insults to adequately describe what a crybaby Marthur is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nintenlord Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Or the biggest insult considering some of those improvements are merely subjective and the people making them often don't have the basic knowledge to do those changes. If you can't take insults, then Internet isn't the place for you. And even subjective improvements are improvements to some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death' Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 You know, I wanted to post something, but then I realized there are no insults to adequately describe what a crybaby Marthur is. come on gaiz this is really serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 (edited) I'm probably going to kick myself in the pants for deciding to be the staff's representative for this, but my mage girl loving co-worker convinced me this was a good idea with something he said :P. I don't understand why copyright keeps being brought up. Marthur doesn't think he is under copyright protection, or that anyone else is. All he is upset with is that we decided to allow people's work to be edited if they are not currently present to give the OK or deny it. I am more or less with Lumi on this one. It might look a little bit whiny, but I don't think it's fair to call him a crybaby for withdrawing his support on an issue he doesn't agree with. And in the end I supported Jyo's decision and was probably about to make the same one myself before he stepped in, so it's not as though I am saying this because I think the same way. If I called everyone that complained about a decision one of us have made in the past a crybaby, you'd be a forum full of "Crybabies" rather than "Member"s. I fully understand why someone who is passionate about the work that they do would not want to distribute their work on a forum that has taken a stance that directly conflicts with their own on the matter. I don't think we made the wrong decision, and I don't think we made the right decision. I think it's just a decision that we made, and no matter what we chose to do there would've been people who would have legitimate reasons to be unhappy with it. So yeah, personally I think it was the decision that would make the least people unhappy. I don't think it's worth insulting either party over, but maybe I am just a dreamer :P. I mean he requested that I remove the emoticons he made and you don't see me getting upset over it... :tangerine: ... :( Edited April 23, 2012 by Tangerine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisandra_brave Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Basically, what I'm reading here is "I did the same thing we do to people we don't know, to someone we do know" "I do not approve of this due to my moral standing" "your opinion has been noted and summarily ignored" "I am retaliating by removing things i made for the community" and has spergfested from there. Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 but my mage girl loving co-worker convinced me this was a good idea with something he said :P. You should really fire him. Anyone who loves female mages is likely to be terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tangerine Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 You should really fire him. Anyone who loves female mages is likely to be terrible. Don't worry, I'm working on it. Just be prepared for the website to become significantly worse in quality. Also it'll probably be smeared in yuri content of questionable appropriateness . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colonel M Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Don't worry, I'm working on it. Just be prepared for the website to become significantly worse in quality. Also it'll probably be smeared in yuri content of questionable appropriateness . Wait... ...We're banning me meow? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laureola Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 yuri content of questionable appropriateness . How could yuri be questionable? It sounds like he's holding the site back to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Bond Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 yuri content hell no...=( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popo Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 If the latter approved them, nobody would complain, if you don't get any reply? Just suck it up and make your own translation. Good idea! Let me get back to you in six years when I have a functioning knowledge of Japanese. My only problem is with Jyosua allowing people to use your work if you are dead. As I've already posted : A translation has the same status as your art/fiction, etc... How is this new? OHBUTWAIT I didn't have any rights over those sprites since the original characters weren't mine! Guess I was wrong back then. My bad! If the translation is a derivative of something that you own or have been legally authorized to translate, then yes, it is protected like other forms of media. If you don't own it, haven't been given permission to use it, or haven't been compensated, then distributing the translation is almost entirely the same as illegally redistributing the actual content. The fact that work or thought went into it doesn't mater if the substance is almost exactly the same and you didn't own the content to begin with. It would be like plagiarizing an article in a language class and then trying to defend your actions because you took time and effort to copy the content and put it in a document. I would imaging that using sprites as bases would also be related to this issue in some capacity, but I don't really want to get into that. If by art and fiction you mean fanart and fanfiction, there are different defenses for those concerns that aren't related to the translation issue. While the legality is highly debatable, using a likeness for an otherwise original work isn't the same as using actual, physical copyrighted media. Writing a story or drawing a picture about Batman for recreation isn't the same as taking the copyright holder's story and using it for your own devices. Different issues. tl:dr; FireLizard's translation does not fall into the category of translation that is actually protected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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