mafia Paris Mafia - Game over, Mimes win!

[Refa]

None of SB's content gives me the impression that he's trying to get lynched (also let's be honest, SB would be the world's worst mime). Tonewise he still doesn't make sense as mafia; too much vibes and being unsure, which from my experience he has a harder time faking as scum. Also he wouldn't dismiss so many people as town so early on (and if he was scum, I figure he'd be casing Gorf today over turning around on one of his townreads). Makes a good point about Prims being Marth's buddy, I suppose (many mehs).

I have like, no issues with J. Probably should have a more detailed read here but *shrugs*. Like this isn't even from a skim read, I'm reading his ISO right now. His lack of vote makes more sense as town than from either of the scum factions (also him having no definite other reads at the end of the day; may be just confirmation bias, but that's pretty much exactly how I felt so). Only thing that bothers me is that he thought Mancer was a mime and voted him anyways? IDK if that's actually scummy though. Interactions with SB seemed pretty townie as well (can't see scum saying that), and his numbers post reads as though he actually thought it through rather than putting it up as false contribution.

From what I gathered from Rapier's last scum game (Guitar Mafia), he has an easier time scumreading people as town. That well seems to be the case here. Also his Mancer defense reads as townie considering what alignment Mancer flipped (granted, Rapier could still be mime, but I think he'd be playing a lot...well, worse if he was). Also his explanation of his Mancer defense is really genuine unlike Marth's which was super lazy. No issues with his D2 content, although I'll admit to skimming a lot of it since there was so much to begin with; I'm fine with his Baldrick case, don't remember who else he's bothered with (maybe Gorf?).

Gorf's Prims vote seemed bad to me at the time, but apparently it was a joke so whatever. His explanation of his issues with Mancer read was fine, and if he was a mime he'd have pushed Bluedoom over Mancer. Also agree with SB about Gorf trying to prove that he's not a mime which doesn't really have any scum benefit. Don't agree with his Rapier read (like I can see where you're coming from, but keep in mind Rapier acts scummier as town and my own Rapier read), but it is at the very least well substantiated.

Just have Baldrick/Prims left now. I'll make some tl,dr; remarks at the end of all of this too.

[Refa]

Also sorry if my reads are confusing, this really is like stream of consciousness level playing right here (I'm really out of it at the moment, but gotta get some content out).

Baldrick kind of does nothing at the beginning only to make a forced case on Prims. Bluedoom did the same and while I can get why people would say it's nontelling, I dunno...bothers me. Either way, he's not the same alignment as Prims. Also if he thought SB's points on J were good on D1, why didn't he actually vote J? Mancer case also read as really easy too. Doesn't even mention Bluedoom until the very end. Don't really like his initial vote on Rapier, but his following reasoning is legit? Mafia sucks.

Too lazy to read Prims but I agree with whatever people are saying about him probably being mafia/mime. I'll try and elaborate on this later but my motivation died.

Should we even lynch at this point? A misvig is better than a mislynch and we can't have our cake and eat it too both anyways so might as well just no lynch right?

[Prims]

Prims should be vigged at this point considering he keeps borderline trolling the game and I can see myself being wrong about him and him just being groupscum over mime at this point.

scum post ^

not even joking I've put out two serious walls of text so either you're mime being a shit, scum mad I'm lynching your buddy or you're not reading the fucking game.

[Prims]

From what I gathered from Rapier's last scum game (Guitar Mafia), he has an easier time scumreading people as town. That well seems to be the case here. Also his Mancer defense reads as townie considering what alignment Mancer flipped (granted, Rapier could still be mime, but I think he'd be playing a lot...well, worse if he was). Also his explanation of his Mancer defense is really genuine unlike Marth's which was super lazy. No issues with his D2 content, although I'll admit to skimming a lot of it since there was so much to begin with; I'm fine with his Baldrick case, don't remember who else he's bothered with (maybe Gorf?).

This is a really shit defense.

If Rapier has a harder time scumreading people when he's scum, the fact that you can only remember one of his scumreads should be telling. He's basically had zero substantiated reads other than his vote targets each day.

Defending somebody townie is not a town tell, are you high? Scum KNOW who the townies are and are in a better position to buddy up to them than anybody else.

Honestly, Refa's recent stream of consciousness is terrible. If I'm not Marf's mimebuddy but SB's point about it makes sense, am I a mime? What I've gotten out of all your paragraphs is that either you don't know or you're too lazy to read properly.

[Prims]

J still hasn't provided a real defense for Rapier either other than "I don't think Rapier is scum". tbh J can get lynched too since he has made no real pushes the entire game. If you read his ISO he posts a lot of words but gameplay-wise it's like... totally empty. No conviction or anything. Playstyle isn't an excuse here we have 3 flips now but he hasn't really picked up at all. He has Gorf on his "would lynch" list but he's barely done anything to interact with Gorf the entire game or get any more out of Gorf, which is outright weird when you consider he should be better at working with and reading Gorf than the rest of the playerlist.

Rapier is derpy enough that he makes people think that he scumslipped regardless of alignment which doesn't help matters at all.

This doesn't even matter because Rapier hasn't "scumslipped" here. His play is just scummy. It's not like his meta is particularly obfuscating.

[Prims]

fwiw I think it's pretty obvious Mancer was the scumkill and Psych got vigged.

Baldrick are you a mime? As much as I suspect Rapier and hate the fact that people are defending him for no reason I can't really call your play today townie since you haven't done much following Rapier not posting. Do you have thoughts on SB/Refa? How would you justify your apparent general inattentiveness this game?

[_J_]

Uh, Prims, who can't get lynched in your eyes? You've pretty much stated problems with everyone at this point. Literally the fingers are pointing everywhere but none of them are landing.

@Refa's NL, just shoot idea: I'd actually be down for that since it is the safest of the options and promotes the best ratio for town to be successful in finding scum.

[Prims]

Rapier is scum.

You're probably scum because you aren't actually playing mafia in this game and your reply here is evasive once again. Your responses of me haven't been to actually refute my points but to attack the way I'm approaching the game, which is irrelevant. And you have yet to commit to an actual read on me.

Baldrick is scummy, but Rapier is worse and I don't think they're buddies. Worth considering if I'm wrong on Rapier.

SB and Kagune are potentially some sort of non-town, Kagune more likely than SB.

Gorf I feel better about at this point; wouldn't kill him anymore.

Refa is probably town not paying full attention. pls pay full attention Refa

[Refa]

Probably will pay more attention after finals are over (last one I'm going to be taking soon so yeah).

Why is Kagune more likely scum than SB FYPOV?

[Prims]

As I've said, I don't think town!Kagune would be super hyped for the game only to be a nonfactor once it actually starts. The responses he's given to questioning seem like they're intended to be nonchalant.

[NecroGhoulin]

did prims just say "wouldnt kill him anymore"

[Prims]

Defending somebody townie is not a town tell, are you high?

btw no offense gorf #microaggressions

[Prims]

did prims just say "wouldnt kill him anymore"

dont troll pls

[Prims]

if that's a serious post, killing means lynching, which... kills people

hell town can also kill somebody during the night in this game

[Baldrick]

Also if he thought SB's points on J were good on D1, why didn't he actually vote J?

I was waiting on his response. Later on I kind of forgot about it. In any case, I've put it down to J's thinking more cautiously.

Don't really like his initial vote on Rapier, but his following reasoning is legit?

No issues with his D2 content, although I'll admit to skimming a lot of it since there was so much to begin with; I'm fine with his Baldrick case,

Reasons? This looks like fence-sitting to me. Also what Prims said on Rapier

PEDIT: OK I've got 10 minutes to get this out.

@Prims

I think SB has had Good Opinions and nothing about him has bothered me, iirc he broke the Mancer wagon by saying he's around and not posting so a possible mime candidate? I don't remember anything Refa did on D1, his last post contains a lot of townreads, not very much explanation is making me lean towards confused, indecisive town rather than scum trying to blend in, my gut says the interactions with J are worth looking into further.

In addition to what I told SB before, I read ISO's yesterday and couldn't get much out of them. I think I will kill my motivation entirely if I try to force it, I've been kind of hoping stuff would come up that I can talk about and now it has and I don't have time to digest it properly.

yeah I also really don't like that J is ignoring the questions I've asked him.

Already well over 10 minutes sorry I'm try to get on tonight Aus time but no promises

[Baldrick]

Sorry one last thing.

Rapier and J (maybe Refa if someone has a real good reason) are the only lynches I would support, in case my ramble was unclear.

[Donald Trump]

this games got me scratching my head. refa your logic is ass backwards on the rapier portion of your reads. youre basically saying "hes scummy looking, but he tends to do that as town so hes a town read." your defense for prims not being mimebuddies with bluedoom would make sense for scumbuddies... but that completely falters when you think about them being mimes: their goal is to get each other lynched. they put themselves in positions where they CONSTANTLY had back and forths, until it became clear that one of them (bluedoom) would be a contender for the lynch. then they started diminishing their interaction with each other.

j, youre playing like an air head. I NEED YOU TO TELL ME, IN DETAIL, BOTH WHY YOU HAVE A TOWN READ ON RAPIER AND BREAK MY CASE DOWN AND TELL ME WHY IT DOESNT FIT WITH SCUMRAPIER.

kagnue BY NO MEANS DESERVES A TOWNREAD. everyone whos even remotely considering him anything more than null needs to reevaluate their lives..

rapier's disappeared! hes gone. without a trace. if he was a mime hed be fighting to get himself lynched (obv not directly but hed want to make himself more of a viable candidate than baldrick), and him not making the move to bluedoom when he had the opportunity is already pretty telling that hes not a mime.

[Donald Trump]

this town has very little direction ;_;

[Refa]

OK, I admit my Rapier logic might be flawed but my Prims/Bluedoom read is totally legit. Anyways, back for real can't use my finals as an excuse to stop making content. I'll try to elaborate on well...everything. Get hype or something.

[Donald Trump]

tbh i cant tell WHAT your opinion of em is cuz you kinda flip flopped on em. if you still think hes 90% nonmime youre need more than bluedooms meta telling you its not the case esp since he flipped not mafia.

[Refa]

Earlier, I mentioned that I would be elaborating on my stream of consciousness. To be more specific, I meant that I would be elaborating on the only two reads that mattered: Prims and Baldrick. This is because they are most definitely the scum team (read on because I will thoroughly explain how I am so sure) while the other leading wagon (Rapier) is who cares what (wouldn’t be surprised if he was the mime, which would make the scum push on him deliciously ironic, but that’s neither here nor there). So let’s take a look at Prims first.

[spoiler=Primsicott]

Don’t really have to go too far in his ISO to see some problems, the first thing that’s off about him is in RVS after all. While most town at that point were paranoid about jesters, Prims just nonchalantly put me at L-1 in RVS. My issue is less about his action (which isn’t scummy) and more about how easily he went along with it (and note the lack of explanation for this until like, D2); if he was scum, he’d obviously care less because even if I was a jester, me getting lynched would just make town more paranoid and less willing to lynch the following day (see me being unsure of whether we should even lynch today).

“Wow Refa, you sure are assuming a lot about Prims from this one action” you say, but it’s actually reflected in a lot of his D1 play. He was being deliberately unhelpful for a good portion of it, after all; this can be seen in him not explaining why Mancer was non town (only later explaining that it was a mime read, without any elaboration on that front), him being willing to lynch Bluedoom early on with no explanation there (or any explanation on the other reads in the same post), and even going as far as saying that he forgot the setup had a vigilante therefore he shouldn’t troll (seriously, can anyone actually imagine a townie saying this). Later on, he explains his scumread on Mancer (apparently all of his shitposting and the mime read were reaction tests, which is interesting because he never explained what reaction he was expecting to get out of Mancer) which I don’t have any issue with in and of itself; I myself was scumreading Mancer for the same reasons, so it’d be pretty hypocritical of me to take issue there; no issues with the rest of his post either, honestly.

In his next post, his Gorf case is fine but…then he advocates Gorf should be vigged. Obviously the assumption is that he believes Gorf is a mime, but then he votes Gorf in the end. It’s like…he’s being deliberately obtuse of what alignment he actually believes Gorf is. No issues with the rest of his post though (although it bothers me that he barely pushed Rapier despite his issues with Rapier being well, more legitimate), although people should note the subtle Baldrick defense at the end; not because it’s scummy (it’s not), but because not giving a clear read on Baldrick is something that Prims does. Like, a lot.

His next two posts (first two posts on the second page of his ISO’s) are impossible to read without context, so I didn’t bother; there’s nothing in them that I can imagine being particularly telling either way so who even gives a fuck am I right. Afterwards, he makes an empty vote on Marthipan that’s really bad (like he barely explained his scumread on Marthipan before and considering he made a few serious posts beforehand, I don’t really buy his /effort excuse). Later on, he says that he wouldn’t mind a Baldrick shot (because the dude’s not playing to his town meta) which would be more telling if 1) this wasn’t something that he did all of the time as scum (advocating vigs on his scumbuddies) and 2) if Baldrick actually had a chance in hell of getting vigged that day (ProTip- he did not). Possible confirmation bias here, but it just reads to me as distancing considering Prims had a very real chance of being vigged on N1. He also pushed Baldrick on some other points which sure are some points that I don’t have any issue with (don’t like how he questioned Baldrick’s Mancer read though; how can you actually seriously ask Baldrick “why is the quality itself scummy” when you were scumreading Mancer for it earlier). Moving on.

Prims pushing Rapier from the beginning of D2 is telling because 1) he didn’t explain himself ever (he barely pushed Rapier yesterday) and 2) from his previous content, he SHOULD have been voting Baldrick (but he didn’t because they’re scumbuddies lol). In fact, he even reneges upon wanting the vig to shoot Baldrick to wanting the vig to shoot LordKagune despite nothing changing; seems totally legit. He asks a lot of questions in the same post but doesn’t really have any definite reads on anyone who’s not Baldrick/Rapier (again, not scummy, more just pointing out the facts). I have...issues with his Rapier case, I'll explain why below.

1. Doesn’t explain why Rapier over explaining his Mancer read is scummy. I’ll admit earlier that I was wrong when I said that this action was townie (when it’s really more of a null tell), but there’s nothing that points it in the other direction other.

2. Being confused on where Rapier stands on most people is fine. However, complaining about Rapier’s easy Gorf vote when he explained his vote in greater detail than you did is hypocritical. You yourself didn’t explain why Gorf was worse than other coasters such as Kagune and Psych, why is he worse in that regard?

3. “In Rapier’s #202 his decision to move to Mancer is way overjustified, like he doesn’t want to draw fire if Mancer flips town” If Rapier was mafia, he’d know that Mancer would flip not mafia. I don't really get this point at all.

Anyways, aside from the Rapier case, Prims pushed Baldrick again; here it’s because Baldrick had no reason to push Mancer over Rapier (the implication here is that Baldrick and Rapier are scumbuddies, keep this in mind for later) and that he’s impartial to most of the game. Also despite scumreading Baldrick still, he wants Gorf to be vigged (in addition to LordKagune); like, he can’t even keep his opinions internally consistent for ONE post. Next post is mime speculation, which isn't alignment relevant either way so who cares.

Honestly, his replies to Rapier are fine because like half of Rapier's points aren't even like good defenses to begin with. Hey, you know who else just kind of acknowledged Marth? You guessed it, except at least Rapier was scumreading the dude (so it's better than being like "I don't want to lynch the leading wagon but will do nothing to convince people otherwise). Also it's telling that you want the mime vigged over scum because it shows what you're really worried about here; don't say it's to "remove the noise" because if scum is vigged, the game ends anyways.

Not sure what to make of his next few short response posts, so I won't even bother putting the effort. Also notice that later on the people he's totally OK with at the end of the day (Baldrick, Gorf) and the people he's scumreading (SB, J, Rapier). Notice the similarities between the members of each group? To spell it out for you, Baldrick/Gorf are voting Rapier and SB/J/Rapier are voting Baldrick. His issues with SB are really forced considering that he wasn't scumreading the dude for most of the game, although I don't really have any problems with his issues with my post lol (since it really was a pretty bad post, stupid finals). Nothing obviously wrong with his J push I suppose, but I just don't agree with it. Like, at all.

Anyways, this post really bothers me. What actually suggests that Mancer was the scumkill and Psych got vigged? It's not Prims potentially being wrong that's bad (and in all fairness, I'm not 100% sure either), but rather the implications here. Why would he say this as town? What does it add to the discussion other than people possibly thinking "wait, Prims might be vigilante, maybe I should listen to him" (and if you are vigilante, then I trust you'll take no issue with me saying that you should be vigged :3).

I have no reads on the rest of his posts, whew. Finally done with this stupid wall of text, it was the worst. I loathe /effort.

Honestly, I’d be willing to lynch Prims solely on the basis of his Baldrick interactions which do not make sense as town vi town interactions. There’s also everything else, I suppose. Anyways, moving on to the other scum who I will be voting for.

[spoiler=Baldrick]

Thankfully, Baldrick has a lot less content so my read on him will be a lot less wall (trust me, I fucking hate writing walls of text). Here’s a summary of his D1 content (not counting obvious joke posts).

-Corrected Mancer’s mistake and asked me a question.

-Makde a weak vote on Prims for being vague on his Mancer read (why is this scummy).

-Explains why Prims can’t be a mime but not why he is scum, also asks Gorf a question.

-Feels better about Prims latest post (but doesn’t explain why) and then asks more questions.

-OK, I’m just giving up here. For the most part, everything else he’s done on D1 can be summed up as questions for the sake of questions or weak scum reads. This makes his Mancer vote (which is based on Mancer not scumhunting enough) hypocritical considering well...yeah. Another case of this is when he complains about Rapier’s Gorf case for being too easy, which is 1) a bad reason for complaining about someones’ vote and 2) also bad considering his cases aren't exactly more detailed. Additionally, his point about wanting to see Rapier’s reaction before voting him is nonsensical because Rapier would more likely to react (with a much more telling reaction) if he had actually voted him. Also not wanting to lynch Marthipan but making no effort to actually argue against his lynch is like all of the scum apathies.

Whoo boy, Day 2 content. His Rapier case baffles me, so I’m even going to bother try getting a read off of it (because confusing logic isn't scummy). He then spends a bunch of time arguing with Rapier without actually making an effort to analyze Rapier’s responses (this is scummy because I get the impression that he couldn’t care less about what Rapier’s responses are). Not going to bother mak a detailed response to his last few posts; it’s obvious that after Rapier flipped town (assuming the game didn’t end, of course) he’d go on to pushing me/J as scumbuddies the next day. So predictable. That's not the problem though, the issue is that none of these reads are well substantiated. His issue with me is a bad Rapier read (and then ignores all of my other content lol, because it somehow didn’t make an impression on him) and his issue with J is ignoring his questions (which was somehow strong enough to revoke his earlier town read, OK; he also ignored all of J’s other content, these are like the easiest scumreads ever).

Anyways, my case on Baldrick isn’t as strong, so why am I voting him over Prims? Simple, because he’s the only person that Prims makes sense as scum with (oh god, those interactions) and additionally because the only other scumteam I can see at this point is SB/Rapier (which I believe is less likely because duh); Rapier doesn’t make sense as scum with anybody else despite the pushes on him. Also not going to lie, it’s because I'm lazy and do not wish to put the effort into pushing a wagon on Prims when there’s already a wagon on his scumbuddy anyways. If Baldrick flips scum, the vigilante can just put Prims out of his misery. If Baldrick does somehow flip town, then the vigilante can just vig me for all I care because that’s how confident I am that that is not the case. Let’s end this game already.

##Vote: Baldrick

[Refa]

tl,dr; proofa.

[charlie_]

wait shit this game exists

how long do we have?

[Refa]

10 or so hours.

[Donald Trump]

hey everybody

wheres rapier?