mafia Paris Mafia - Game over, Mimes win!

[_J_]

Gorf was here but leaves at the end of time. Boo that ho.

[Psych]

wow i go get a drink for 5 minutes and now i have to turbo lynch keep your pants on refa geez put some pants on first

##vote marth

[Balcerzak]

And that should be that. Please hold for a moment.

[Balcerzak]

End of Day Votals

[6] Bluedoom: Refa, SB, Psych, Prims, Rapier, #HBC J

[3] MancerNecro: LordKagune, #HBC Gorf, Baldrick

[2] #HBC J: MancerNecro, Bluedoom

Not Voting: Nobody

As dusk deepened along the Paris streets, a rowdy rabble had gathered outside of his studio. It was an annoyance, to be sure, but he was minutes away from completing his current work of art, and didn't feel like confronting them and telling them to go away, not just yet. The timing was almost as if planned by some outside force, for no sooner had he finished and was moving to set his brush down, but his door was burst from its hinges, and several members of the mob grabbed him forcibly by the arms and hauled him to the town square, dribbles of paint lining the path from his workplace as they fell from the brush still tightly clenched in his hand. "Uncultured swine," the man muttered as the noose was fitted around his neck, "But this shall be my vindication, in a way." A quick snap and it was over, his finished self-portrait left undisturbed on its easel.

Bluedoom was lynched by majority vote!

He was

Dear Bluedoom,

You are Henri Matisse. You are a famous Parisian impressionist and one of the key figures in art.

You are a Mime. You are on a team with _______, who is also a Mime.

You may communicate with the other Mime via PM. In addition, each game night you may PM me the name of one player to roleblock, and the Mime who will perform the roleblock. All night actions by the blocked player will not occur. You will not be informed of whether or not a block successfully alters the events of a night.

You win when all Mimes have been lynched.

(Yes, I know he wasn't born in Paris, and he did more than just impressionism. If you have quibbles with the modest flavor, you should be focusing on more important things, and save the mod needling for postgame.)

Night 1 begins, and will last for 36 hours, or 6 hours after all night actions have been submitted, whichever comes first. If you have a night action to submit, and do not wish the night to end early, feel free to simply state that when sending in your order, that would work too.

[Balcerzak]

Night 1 has ended, and unfortunately two of the residents of Paris have turned up dead this morning. One, in a somewhat amusingly ironic turn of events, was dispatched by the method he had used to kill so many others, the guillotine.

Dear MancerNecro,

You are Maximilien Robespierre. You are a famous Parisian poliician and one of the key figures of the French revolution.

Vous êtes une Vanille Townie. Vous n'avez aucune puissance de special.

Vous gagnez quand on a éliminé toutes les menaces pour la ville.

The other appeared to have suffered a tragic accident involving a shrinking invisible box. The results were... not pleasant to look upon.

Dear Psych,

You are Paul Legrand. You are a famous Parisian mime and one of the key figures in theatre.

Vous êtes une Vanille Townie. Vous n'avez aucune puissance de special.

Vous gagnez quand on a éliminé toutes les menaces pour la ville.

Day 2 has begun and will end at 2.92 heures on the 16th of Frimaire.

(Or just check the countdown clock if revolutionary dates and times are not your forte.)

Edit: Fixing the date and link to the countdown, I think I actually screwed myself up trying to be cute. Oops!

Edited December 4, 2014 by Balcerzak

[Refa]

Wow, Mancer was town. Thanks for doing absolutely nothing to dissuade the wagon on you. ;/

Don't get why scum would kill either of Mancer/Psych (I'm assuming Mancer was vigged because noone was really scumreading Psych, but who knows), should probably look into the townier people or something. Kind of demotivated for understandable reasons.

[Prims]

lets talk about how rapier is scum

##Vote: Rapier

[Prims]

psych, true to meta, got to be a mime even as vt :')

[Donald Trump]

I PROMISE CONTENT

...within 24 hours. as finals linger professors decide dumping work is in good taste bla bla bla y'all know the song n dance.

gee i wonder if gorf can actually be mime when he had that bright and shining opportunity all Day yesterDay to hop on his mime partner and didn't even do it.

[Psych]

don't worry guys, i'm not dead, i just got blown over by a stiff wind

oh look now i'm in a box!

[Prims]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZcRMAiHMqT4

Hi I am doing a proper read of the thread and listening to this really good song while doing so for immersion 100%.

@Vig: Please shoot LordKagune tonight if he does not make a good showing today. Given his level of hype before the start of the game I can't see him going on to only post twice during the day. But I don't want to waste a lynch on him.

@SB: Why did you unvote when I put Refa at L-1? The odds were against Refa self-hammering and even if he did it would actually serve to remove rabble from the game and there's a higher chance of PRs / crossfire catching the mime than it being lynched, which is why I was willing to take the risk. But more likely Refa would just be cleared as non-mime, and this is ignoring the unvote gambit.

@Refa #118: This is a misreading of my post - I was saying J wasn't a jester, leaving mafia as a possibility, but I thought he was town. You can be willing to lynch somebody without them being your main suspect. Basically your post seems to take me at way more face value than necessary (Mancer jester post was also a joke), I'm not sure what to think of it but want to know what was running through your head.

@SB 140: Explain your mimevibes on Baldrick. I don't like the amount of "uhhhhh IDK" in this post.

Rapier was unnecessarily diplomatic about everything D1, he wrote a huge wall post but most of it was some sort of "Mancer could be this, Mancer could be that" waffling with no conclusion, and debating others' points without drawing anything from them. Despite all this, at the end I can't really tell where he stands on anything other than the easy Gorf read. Even then, he doesn't explain why Gorf's coasting is any worse than other coasters such as me, Kagune and Psych - in light of this, the vote rings hollow to me (this sentence ghostwritten by Affinity). Reads like he's interacting with people so he can be "doing things", but isn't actually coming to conclusions on other people's alignments.

In Rapier's #202 his decision to move to Mancer is way overjustified, like he doesn't want to draw fire if Mancer flips town. Really just seems like the payoff to his non-stance on Mancer earlier, like he wanted to be able to vote Mancer later. It's especially odd when he claimed to acknowledge Marf's vote on me was bad (but had no Marf read...). So yeah let's turbolynch Rapier D2 since he asked so nicely.

I still think Baldrick's D1 vote on Mancer had no meat to it and there was no reason for him to push it over Rapier. Also, small snippets of what he's said (such as in this post) lead me to believe he's skimming the thread and impartial to most of the game, which is odd in a small game where he doesn't seem to have any outside circumstances. OK with lynching there. Baldrick, what reaction did you think you'd get from Rapier here?

@SB #204: explain Baldrick and Rapier townreads? How is J playing to his town meta? Have you even played with scum J?

Actually don't think J's D1 showing was that impressive after re-reading it, but don't find him concrete scummy. @Gorf: how are you reading J right now?

Refa is really obvious town I think. Gorf needs to die somewhere down the road, probably by vig, but that's irritating since Kagune is much higher priority imo. Wish Psych hadn't been shot (psych stan for life).

[Prims]

uuuugh after writing that post I looked at the playerlist again and realized I'm not really sure who the mime could be if not one of the three people I'm scumreading, unless Gorf just stayed off Marf in hopes he could still get himself MLed later.

Who do you guys think makes the most sense as a mime?

god why did I think joining a set-up with jesters was a good idea

only Balc can get away with this shit remember when he hosted an open set-up with death millers

actually let's not remember that game.

[Psych]

dead

prims you gave me the best idea

death mimes

dead

[Baldrick]

@Prims: Because this isn't a standard game I want to be more selective with my cases. The slower I take a case, the more I can tell how that person feels about it. I wasn't looking for a specific reaction, but to analyse what his reaction to it was.

Rapier's counter to what I said about his Gorf case was, paraphrased "Your case is also easy (it's not, because Mancer attracting attention in that way is not obviously scummy, unlike Gorf), but that's bad logic, so both our cases are good"

By not justifying his case on its own merits, but comparing his case to mine and concluding they're both good, Rapier is not trying to convince me of his case, he's trying to make me not want to push him for it. Earlier in the post he was attacking my Mancer case because he was doing a good job, why does he think it's valid now?

A bit later, he votes Mancer. His reasoning is that even though Mancer is likely to be a mime (based on what?) he wants to lynch him because Marth's less likely to be scum (again, based on what?)

##vote: Rapier

[Rapier]

Rapier was unnecessarily diplomatic about everything D1, he wrote a huge wall post but most of it was some sort of "Mancer could be this, Mancer could be that" waffling with no conclusion, and debating others' points without drawing anything from them. Despite all this, at the end I can't really tell where he stands on anything other than the easy Gorf read. Even then, he doesn't explain why Gorf's coasting is any worse than other coasters such as me, Kagune and Psych - in light of this, the vote rings hollow to me (this sentence ghostwritten by Affinity). Reads like he's interacting with people so he can be "doing things", but isn't actually coming to conclusions on other people's alignments.

In Rapier's #202 his decision to move to Mancer is way overjustified, like he doesn't want to draw fire if Mancer flips town. Really just seems like the payoff to his non-stance on Mancer earlier, like he wanted to be able to vote Mancer later. It's especially odd when he claimed to acknowledge Marf's vote on me was bad (but had no Marf read...). So yeah let's turbolynch Rapier D2 since he asked so nicely.

It's particularly interesting how you don't know where I stand on anything but felt perfectly fine to just vote me instead of asking me questions, like you're doing toward every other player. I confess that I haven't been paying too much attention to this game, so my reads are few (gladly, since we only have a few guys around, it makes my job easier). For now, I'm finding SB, Refa (arguably DeBeste mafioso of the list), J and your content as okay (can't say much from J because he needs to post more often, but what I read from him is good enough), while I believe Gorf and Baldrick are suspicious (I didn't want to tell this so soon because my read on him is not elaborated yet, but his Mancer case and his replies to me ping on my radar, and I'll look at his iso later). You could have just asked me instead of expecting a wall of text of reads from my... second post in the game? ... And then complaining about it. I missed Psych, yes, how does that make my case on Gorf hollow? And I didn't forget about Kagune, I just prefered to ask him a question instead of voting him right off the bat, because I need to see content from him in order to judge and he has none.

About my overjustification on Mancer "in order to avoid fire", why didn't I do the same regarding Marf? As scum I wouldn't know which one would flip mime, so in order to "avoid fire" I'd have to overjustificate both of my votes. In the end it is curious how you say I was intending to lynch Mancer later on, when I actually switched to the Marf wagon when the former's wagon was bigger and more promissing than the latter's. This doesn't make much sense, because as you said I had an overjustification ready to be used as an excuse.

I'll be back after lunch (if I don't just give up and go play Total War Shogun 2).

[Rapier]

Rapier's counter to what I said about his Gorf case was, paraphrased "Your case is also easy (it's not, because Mancer attracting attention in that way is not obviously scummy, unlike Gorf), but that's bad logic, so both our cases are good"

By not justifying his case on its own merits, but comparing his case to mine and concluding they're both good, Rapier is not trying to convince me of his case, he's trying to make me not want to push him for it. Earlier in the post he was attacking my Mancer case because he was doing a good job, why does he think it's valid now?

Uh, what? What I said was "through that logic (that my case is bad because it is easy), your case would also be bad, because it is easy. So this logic doesn't make sene. If a case is consistent then it is perfectly valid". I never made that logic leap which you paraphrased.

I didn't like your case on Mancer because he was already scumhunting, and when I questioned you about it you replied with a "well, he should just scumhunt more". Agree with Prims that it was a meatless case. And I still find it odd that you did not look into other players who were scumhunting less than Mancer, or just coasting along the game, like Gorf. Why was Mancer such a good find for you compared to these players? It looks like opportunism from your part, because the easiest thing one can do is point at the jumpy and hasty player who's drawing all the attention and cry scum, which is very convenient for the mafia to do.

I can't justify my case on Gorf more than I already did. He is using his issues with the game's setting as an excuse to not scumhunt, instead making jokes and fluff comments (like the one I cited), which makes it seem that he is active and doing things while basically coasting along. This is bad, and he should get to scumhunting. Besides, without actual legit content it is hard to judge whether he is scum or town - but his uncommitment to scumhunting makes me believe he is either scum or a mime. Tell me what is wrong with the logic used to vote him. Merely saying it is "easy and therefore bad" is shallow.

A bit later, he votes Mancer. His reasoning is that even though Mancer is likely to be a mime (based on what?) he wants to lynch him because Marth's less likely to be scum (again, based on what?)

I thought Mancer was a mime based on the fact that he was drawing all the highlights. And fmpov, Marth was a null tell while Mancer was actually being jumpy and hasty, which made him scummier than Marth (because being excessively jumpy and hasty is Mancer's scum meta), who I had a null read on because all he did was vote Prims and then back off from it and act passively, which is very little to draw conclusions from.

[Rapier]

So, let's do this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFbegFrBaHY

Baldrick's case on me is solely made by a misrepp of my content (as I addressed on my latest post) and a paragraph where he says that my reasoning for voting Mancer is fuzzy, but he does not draw any conclusions from this, which is why it feels unattached from the argument. Furthermore, his Mancer case was indeed meatless because it was, if anything, a push for him to scumhunt more while he was already scumhunting, when Baldrick could have focused on the players who were not scumhunting at all, such as Gorf or Kagume (I don't remember whether Psych falls into this category because he's been pretty much ummemorable this game imo). Makes me feel as if he chose the easiest possible case and went for it. Complementing the aforementioned reason with his flimsy cases on me and Mancer, I'm inclined toward believing that Baldrick is scum.

##Vote: Baldrick

I'll keep my eye on Gorf, though I'm starting to believe it is better to just vigshoot him (or Kagume, because it is impossible to even read him) because there is a good chance that his uncommitness to the game comes from a mime alignment (but I wonder whether this is true - if it was, why wouldn't he be drawing more attention?)

[_J_]

The irony on leading a turbo lynch on Marf when he was actually a mime is very ouch. And even when Mancer flipped town that is another ouch. Followed by toDay Prims coming in and attacking on of my strongest town-reads is very confusing to me. This game is a monster, but I am enjoying every minute of it because the alluring nature of so many scum still left to find when I have no idea (well, not no idea since I have a few places I want to prod) is really fun. I'll just go right out and say this now for toDay's sake.

My strongest town-reads are Refa and Rapier and I will not be lynching nor voting them toDay unless heavily convinced otherwise. Everyone else is fair game for the time being since we still have 3 scum to find. I feel comfortable with my two town-reads and their play does not make me think of them as scum.

Prims case does not do much of anything to me because Rapier has a very valid point. Prims, If you had a problem with Rapier's play at the time, where were the questions? Where was the investigative spirit to look at him in more detail? Even now you don't really question Rapier but just try to drown him in a wall of text. However, this is very different from your attack on me in the last game we played where you were scum and I was town. That isn't to say meta changes, I just would like to say I do not like your push on Rapier and won't be joining you on it. I just don't get scum-vibes from your push on him, but I am far from convinced that Rapier is scum especially one that deserves to be "turbo-lynched" when there are more valid candidates in Gorf and Baldrick. You even mention in your posts that you do no like Baldrick or Gorf but you put stipulations to them. Like you want Gorf shot, not lynched and you want Baldrick lynched not shot. Can you explain your rationale a bit more here?

My consensus thought on Prims is...odd. Directly a null at the time, but probably would lean more town over scum in this regard because I would like to see more of this Prims vs. Rapier considering I have Rapier as town and because of it I found someone I want to lynch/get rid of toDay. However, I am going to go get some quotes and things to help support me on this one. I think if Prims was anything anti-town it would have to be mafia, but even then I am scratching my head because it doesn't taste right when I say it vocally.

@Rapier: What do you make of Prims push on you? Can I also get a read on SB? @Refa: I'd also like a read on SB from you as well please.

[_J_]

^See, ninja'd by Rapier however, brings a valid point.

I have a very hard time seeing someone as scum especially when they are following the same train of thought I am regarding reads and this game. Baldrick is the one I mentioned that I want to lynch/see die next especially for reasons Rapier just stated, but I would like to add more weight to that case with evidence. I shall be back shortly since I am very in the zone here.

[_J_]

Starting on pg. 1 for re-read to find some tracks in the sand but wanted to post the player list and go through initial feels on the playerlist after D1 and where they sit in my town-list.

Town reads:

J/Refa/Rapier

Null reads:

Prims/SB

Would Lynch/Shoot:

Gorf/Baldrick/LordKagune

Player list is much smaller than I remembered haha.

@Mod/Balcerzak: Could we get a prod on LordKagune/update on the situation?

[Balcerzak]

Roger that, I can go ahead and do an official prod.

[_J_]

Thank you very much!

[SB.]

@SB: Why did you unvote when I put Refa at L-1? The odds were against Refa self-hammering and even if he did it would actually serve to remove rabble from the game and there's a higher chance of PRs / crossfire catching the mime than it being lynched, which is why I was willing to take the risk. But more likely Refa would just be cleared as non-mime, and this is ignoring the unvote gambit.

As soon as I saw your vote I unvoted instantly (see: timestamps) so why do you think that I was going to have time to think all of that through and read your mind about you pulling a reaction test again?

@SB 140: Explain your mimevibes on Baldrick. I don't like the amount of "uhhhhh IDK" in this post.

His vote seemed really brief and the timing seemed convenient, considering how quickly the wagon sprung up, but I didn't think he'd be that blatant about it as scum.

Why is indecision scummy here?

@SB #204: explain Baldrick and Rapier townreads? How is J playing to his town meta? Have you even played with scum J?

Rapier is literally gut based on general playstyle, Baldrick was for his content picking up so I dismissed my earlier problems with him as having a slow start. The only none-ongoing game I've played with J was Hard NOCs 2 iirc but his playstyle is basically the same as it was there imo and I feel like there would be some kind of difference there if he was scum?

I'm really out of things today and I'm kind of struggling to parse whatever the heck Baldrick and Rapier's crossvoting is about. I'll try and get a follow-up to this out soon.

[_J_]

SB, if you had to pick a side at the moment of Baldrick and Rapier, who would it be and why?

[SB.]

I'd rather not, but I guess I'd lynch Rapier over Baldrick just because he's a tougher read (and I have a weaker read on the slot)?

I kind of think that Prims is Marth's buddy based on how hard Marth pressed him and how Prims drew attention to the slot by getting someone (idr who) to give opinions on the slot before jumping on the wagon himself without really having said anything about it beforehand. It kind of reads like he's unsure of how to approach the slot early on and doesn't want to push it too hard in case of getting tied to it/it getting vigged? Not sure if this is grasping or not, but meh.