Smash 4, Character Discussion Thread. #21 Metaknight

[Great Geargia Gateway]

very few of the grab release combos are true combos

No combo's off throws in general either.

In what world does Sakurai live on to say all these characters are balanced.

[Jedi]

So at Blackwolf I saw a Puff do ok vs one of our 2 Sheik's, but thats because they tried to turn everything into a trade of hits.

@GGG, well you have to admit the Balance is much better than in say Melee or Brawl, I mean thats impressive considering 4 has so many more characters too.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Jedi

[Jedi]

Since this discussion is dead

Lets vote for #19. it'll end on the 3rd.

[Anacybele]

Luigi and Mii Swordfighter

If this thread is still going to go on... xP

[Comet]

Luigi

[Elieson]

Anything but WeeGee

Why not Samus and R.O.B.

[General Horace]

death to weegee

samus and roy

[Jedi]

2 Votes

Luigi

Samus

1 Vote

Roy

ROB

Mii Swordfighter

[Carmine Sword]

Samus.

[Anacybele]

You people are mean. :(

[Ema Skye]

Samus and Dark Pit

[Great Geargia Gateway]

My Samus.

[euklyd]

Luigi and Green Thunder Edited February 2, 2016 by Euklyd

[Falaflame]

Samus already has 5 votes. RIP.

I'll toss 2D Man's name in the hat, too. Not like it'll make any difference, unfortunately. But hey, I can get a participation ribbon, right?

Edited February 2, 2016 by Falaflame

[Jave]

Pac-Man and Roy

[Jedi]

Time for the armored part chozo part metroid warrior herself.

"I first battled the Metroids on planet Zebes. It was there that I foiled the plans of the Space Pirate leader, Mother Brain, to use the creatures to attack galactic civilization..."

Origin: Metroid on the NES

Year: 1986

Developer: Nintendo

Framedata

RSATD: In Metroid, Samus could use her morphball bombs to give herself some extra jumps, and some speedrunners use this in succession to sequence break certain parts of games, in Samus this can actually be used to help her recover.

Samus, while retaining her fairly ok camping game, has several noticable flaws, although she has a decent combo game and a very good set of recovery options, she has some very odd weaknesses, such as her projectiles not packing enough of a punch, her jab being literally broken in terms of design (I.E you can almost never connect both hits, and the hints section even TALKS ABOUT THIS).

She has some mileage off grabs although due to it being a tether, its not exactly something you want to just throw out, but she has a nice zair, and aerials in general, she's also floaty which can be a boon in some situations, but poor in others.

I'm not too well versed on Samus in this game, although I recently fought a pretty decent one at Blackwolf, I was able to eat most of her projectiles up, she also struggles at dealing with close range pressure, despite being more of a defensive character.

[Elieson]

Mah girllllllllllll

Sure wish they'd buff her projectiles in general. She's outclassed in so many ways.

Still, her dtilt and uair are arguably her best moves and unless they patched it out, her UpB can kinda KO in one hit, like ike's Aether. it's weird.

[Zera]

Samus is one of the most unique characters in the game, with some very powerful strengths. Charge Shot, when fully charged, is an extremely powerful KO projectile that comes out fast, up and side smash are great KO moves if they land, Super Missiles deal 10% and eat shields quickly, her grab has excellent range, and her aerials are pretty good. She also has a versatile recovery for a heavyweight, and you can do some funky evasions with her dodge roll and Morph Ball Bomb.

However, Samus has a lot of problems as well.

Regular Missiles are next to worthless. They're half as powerful as Super Missiles, have almost no homing, and the thruster shuts off after a second for no reason. Any missile can be destroyed by almost any attack, often without the attacker taking damage. Whatever these things are made of, they're definitely not the missiles from Super Metroid.

Not only does her jab not connect properly, the first hit has so little hitstun that sometimes the opponent can hit you anyway. Her side tilt has great range, but the middle hitbox has so little hitstun that sometimes the opponent can hit you anyway. Noticing a trend?

Her down smash, down tilt, and all her throws have no significant killing power until the opponent reaches 200%.

Her grab is as slow as ZSS's, but ends sooner and has more endlag. This makes her grab the most punishable in the game, which is a massive weakness since grabs are so important. I believe this is the main reason she's considered low tier.

Samus can be powerful in the right hands, but due to her plethora of distinct strengths and weaknesses you really have to learn a unique fighting style to win.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Before I start, have we gotten confirmation that Samus got some buffs? (I haven't updated yet)

Not only does her jab not connect properly, the first hit has so little hitstun that sometimes the opponent can hit you anyway. Her side tilt has great range, but the middle hitbox has so little hitstun that sometimes the opponent can hit you anyway. Noticing a trend?

This is called being punished for successfully hitting your opponent which they deserved. It's just not far at all.

[euklyd]

samus has nice aerials and recovery/survivability, I guess

otoh, https://www.facebook.com/thomas.estay.5/videos/1040696062667703/

game blows

[Carmine Sword]

Do any other characters have hitboxes on their tethers? Regardless of the answer, what happened in that video is just ridiculous.

[Comet]

all tethers have hitboxes

samus sucks, the end. she has to keep people at mid range to put on any pressure with zair and everything else in neutral is terrible. charge shot is okay against people without reflectors (they're viable against samus because samus has awful frame data / properties), but good luck charging it.

Edited February 4, 2016 by Comet

[Zera]

Ah, I forget to include this... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCYCj3et36U

otoh, https://www.facebook.com/thomas.estay.5/videos/1040696062667703/

Every time I think I know all of Samus's weaknesses, I am proven wrong again. I'm gonna play an actual Metroid game instead, where I get real missiles, and Samus is at her PRIME. (Actually, I'm gonna try Metroid: Zero Mission now that it's on the eShop.)

Edited February 4, 2016 by Zera

[Great Geargia Gateway]

Down to business. I wish I could have had a word with Adam before he died and let Samus know she could have full authorization of her suit... should we tell her?

Samus, is poorly designed. She was designed to Tech Chase and meant to combo from leading moves (which is cool), but moves are almost impossible to combo from, genuinely. She's quite slow, this hurts her trying to get kill punishes as her grab have no realism to them. They don't KILL and the grab takes AGES to come out and come back. The movement also hurts the ability to follow up. DThrow doesn't always put the opponent where you need them, so it's it's not a true combo, more of a "Gonna throw a move and hope to hit." And more about movement... Her rolls... Really?

Many moves end up getting her punished. Her Jabs don't connect (still to this day) and it's not needed. What do you get from a jab that can be intercepted? It takes to long to jab to jab. Your opponent can just jab before you even get you shield up after the first jab. Even Side Tilts sweet-sourspot can get you punished. Say your opponent is in end lag, and you wanna punish that. But your punish ends up getting punished. Wtf... Even another matter is the Dair is a lie. The hitbox doesn't lie with it's accurate animation. Carefully, you can see the arm cannon, so the Dair hitbox it there, but the animation swing is far out it makes it seems the move has good range than it does. It's hiding the actual hitbox.

She holds very weak attacks. Maybe expected to push your opponent away and then projectile whore, but these moves need kill potential. DSmash is the worst of it's kind. In Brawl, it was a good kill move. Now we only have UpSmash for the ground moves and Uptilt, even DTilt to some degree. But not even Up Smash connects all the time and doesn't work on smaller characters. Her Aerials are nice tho (Uair and Bair arguably the best in the game), except for one move... We want our sex kick back. That Nair has its uses, but it should be like Bayo's; quick and spins around fast. It's only use was to hit opponents in front of you because Fair won't cut it. Well just give use a long sex kick back.

Missiles suck. Super Missiles are also crap, they don't kill, EVER and you can't combo off them enough without opponents poor DI. The only time they kill, is when their deflected back and to kill Samus (Note: deflected super missiles don't reset their distance limit so they might cut short right in front of you). Samus takes ages to use missiles and Super missiles. She really needed that Missile cancel from Brawl, other wise, she'll never win a projectile war and can get punished so bad. They supply good pressure on and off stage despite crap homing ability. They drop shield pressure quite well. And can be used to bait stuff like rolls and air dodges for a spike when off stage. Charge Beam should be allowed to charge in midair. Full. F***in'. Stop. Make the charge slower, I don't care. And give it the ability to plow through anything; PK Fire, Bombs, Fully charge arrows. More priority. Even Pikmin stopped by Pikmin. It puts good shield pressure and used to tech chase, but what pisses me off is their's nothing else to kill with except this, making you predictable. Her projectile game is even bad which is something she's supposed to excel at for the last 25 years. Which no one celebrated.

So how the f*** do mains pull her off. Like InfernoOmni said regarding to players maining Lowest Tiers. "They're Smart as F***!"
First off, we never stop doing something. We're using bombs to gimp your recovery and get around the place. Or charging B or firing Missiles. Whether Dash attack is freggin buggy to land or not. If your playing Captain Falcon, Fox, Marth or a fast character and you're going to assume I'm just gonna stand and charge at the start. I'm not. I could surprise you with a true 40%. We Zair... like no tomorrow. From the ledge, on stage, and even to extend combo's. We don't roll, we air dodge. Place bombs to stop you, and if you shield a bomb, we're gonna break your shield, then your dead if you're not in the center of the stage... 0 to death or whatever. We frame trap you. Our Fair's over over your hit box, waiting for your air dodge to end, after an UTilt, we go after you and bait an air dodge, just get you caught in screw attack to even ko. We combo and string from Dash attacks, DTilts, UTilts, DThrows, Landing UAirs, Dairs, Jab1's. No matter the character matchup, Samus is designed to be capable, it's just her design is broken and needs one hell of a patch.

[Jedi]

Good overall analysis's here, do we have more to say at this point?