nflchamp

I'd argue about Soren, but I'm not allowed to argue half-points.

I think people have tried only Largo at 20 when testing to see if bonuses transfer. I wouldn't be against trying that, though, if people want to test it.

Who decided? And there's no "info" here, we all know what completing 2-E shorter gives us as opposed to taking longer. It's situations like these that make me question the definition of an "efficient" runthrough. If we're trying to go for max CEXP, then we'll probably miss out on BEXP in some cases (turn counts, 2-3 etc.) I was under the impression that efficient meant maximixing BEXP while keeping the turn count as low as possible. Of course if we're maximixing CEXP, then things like the houses in 3-9 are relatively unimportant. If we don't care about 2-3's BEXP, then we shouldn't care about 3-9's either. If we're maximixing CEXP, we're pretty much just Routing every map as much as possible while giving no regard to turn count. Red Fox can decide what she wants here, as it's her rating topic, but these are pretty important issues for tier lists. First things first, 2-E turn limit was discussed at page 162 in OMG it's a tier list. That was September, so it's a little ways back now. There wasn't any contention about taking the entire time, but it was just before more Mia vs. Gatrie stuff that could have prevented any potential counters from happening. And I'll give you that we all already know what the differences is ending 2-E quickly and taking our time are. So please utilize that info to show why ending the chapter quickly is a good option that should be considered. That one was partially discussed is smash's playthrough topic where he tried to defend Aran's abilities (starting around here). About what efficiency is for the purposes here, efficiency is beating the game in as few turns as possible while keeping the difficulty of doing so to a minimum. Note how taking more turns is not necessarily bad under that definition.

It's debatable whether we are or aren't in an efficient runthrough. In general I think we want to cut off as many turns as possible without being ridiculous, does this include getting all the items or not? Note that we can probably get the Energy Drop turn 2, since Calill can double the guy holding it, so we really only lose out on the Dracoshield and Nullify, and getting these items does not require the full amount of turns regardless, so the question is whether we stay for the CEXP of certain units or ending the map earlier. I was bringing it up as a possibility, not an absolute. I guess since it Red Fox' rating topic she can play however she pleases, though this makes discussion rather meaningless anyway as it's her whims rather than attempting to be objective. I already brought it up a while ago. It was decided that we're taking max turns even in an efficient playthrough as the extra EXP helps later on. If you want any leeway on that you'll have to present info that says otherwise.

I believe Narga was talking about Nolan critting and facing additional attacks, not the laguz critting Nolan.

Except that unlike the other top tiers, he can also heal, in addition to having great offense...with some BEXP. Unless you're saying healign isn't valuable, which makes me question Mist> Soren even more so. The problem is that, as the # of healers go up, the value of being able to heal goes down. So what is valuable suddenly becomes much less so when Soren gets it, as Rhys and Mist could already handle the healing. Okay. There's no way Soren is getting the 3-3 crown when Gatrie is in play. There is no way around the fact that Gatrie uses the crown much better than Soren (and everybody else). The crown is still difficult for Soren to get even when Gatrie isn't in play because someone like Titania wants it to ensure doubling. Titania gives us another excellent combat unit rather than a combat unit that is decent and has utility that we already had enough of. Admittedly, Titania taking both a speedwing and a crown is a bit costly for her, so that helps Soren's chances. I don't really care about the rest of the post, as it is healing utility vs. superior, yet still mediocre, offense that is only likely to happen a small % of times.

Everyone that 2HKOes attacks an enemy. On enemy phase, the weakened enemies all suicide into someone. You heal whoever’s injured and troop on. Also, if keeping up is a problem, you do have 3 mounts available for ferrying, and that number only increases when janaff/ulki/reyson show up. The problem is, all those enemies who I could get into the range of but couldn't reach while killing stuff the turn before have already come and half killed themselves. So all those people who 2HKO just kill and are done with it. As for the mounts and ferrying, well, the fact that none of them really suck and would rather be up front puts a halt on that really fast. It’s listed on the site as hidden treasure. If it were an error I’m sure it would be corrected by now. I’ll be attempting to get it with Heather anyway, so that will be resolved soon enough. 3-5 Wo Dao.........Bargains Secret Book.........Bargains Arms Scroll.........Bargains Reaper Card.........Bargains Corrosion.........Base conversation Vulnerary.........Enemy Lance Paladin Coin.........Enemy Thunder Sage Energy Drop.........Enemy Lombroso (steal) Olivi Grass.........Hidden treasure Master Crown.........Hidden treasure (Japanese version only) Coin.........Hidden treasure (x3) Edit: I wish spaces wouldn't be removed from things like this. That's because not many people think Soren is getting any gain out of this, much less enough to get all the way to the top of mid. I'll give it the potential to put him above Calill at the moment.

At the moment, I don't see any reason to take Neph's wrath off of Neph. There might be a reason to, but I doubt a back-liner with no innate crit and no weapons that can give me serious crit unless its a forge is one. Maybe Boyd or someone could make good use of it. I dunno.

Sooooooooo, does Stefan prevent me from summoning creatures? I might not be very up to date on my Magic: The Gathering knowledge, but I do know creatures are spells.

Yu-gi-oh! is the only game that I know of where creatures are auto-destroyed for losing a battle as a default. Most games give creatures "life" or "HP" or something of the sort.

I'm definitely taking that the wrong way. Beyond that, the ratings are good enough that I won't complain about them.

Are you saying it's bad? I think this is one of the best things I've ever seen from Smash. Of course, I've never played this "Magic the Gathering" game and have no clue what all this means. I can see that some of the cards are probably unbalanced, but he never promised they wouldn't be. It's mostly staying consistent with the power of the characters in the game (though some just at the performance of their base levels against enemies in their first chapters and not after training) and has funny jokes like with Meg and Fiona. No, some of the cards aren't appearing in the posts because they were moved or deleted. I'm sure that's what he is talking about.

Blue is generally the only color outside of white to get flying from what I know. isn't a lot since Magic isn't my main game. I'd be interested in seeing those, as yugioh is what I usually play. I made a couple after seeing this thread for the kicks, but I really just wanted to make a Zelgius card.

Is that to me? What does it even mean? qq = crying

The wolf transformation gauge is hardly a problem and Volug is flat out better than Sothe in Part 3. Volug is also flat out better than Sothe in part 4 combat wise. Sothe's thieving utility outside of Part 1 is 4-3, and that's only finding items (which anyone can do). Sothe's thieving utility in Part 1 is minimal as well. As for ORKOs, Volug will ORKO in Part 1 pretty much as long as he doubles. He'll have some problems towards the end of Part 1, but otherwise he'll do well on that front.

It's not an appeal to popularity for RFoF to ignore the criticisms of someone she has no respect for. It was barely criticism in the first place. It only said that Nolan's offense and durability obviously deserve more than a .5 gap between him and Micaiah. In other words, he only stated stuff we all knew and barely created a line of reasoning to go with it. Looking for the button that says "hell no". Well, I'd accept Sothe as a 9.0 depending on where everyone else falls, but I'm guessing I'm going to agree with you on this one. EDIT: And it took until Zihark to have problems with smash's rankings. Aran didn't get argued until we got the feeling of how smash was ranking from Nephenee's rating.

All this "leaning" business is just like saying, 'I'm not really sure which is better,' which is why there's an equal between them.

So what criteria is this list based on, exactly? Who alfredo likes most.

BEXP usage. Smash doesn't like how people (namely Int and Narga) are saying that Mia doesn't have a bad start in PoR because we have so much BEXP at that point we can just fix her bad level/stats with it without hurting anybody else. Smash is trying to say we can do the same for Aran because it's the same situation. Except the situations are different.

No, sorry bro, the idea is the same. - Mia gets BEXP in ch 8 cause no one else needs it, because apparently their improvement in performance doesn't matter. - Aran gets BEXP in ch 8 cause no one else needs it, because apparently their improvement in performance doesn't matter. Which is a total misrepresentation of the situations. Mia gets BEXP in ch. 8 (PoR) because we have so much that the amount she takes doesn't actually affect anyone and she greatly improves. Aran takes BEXP in 1-4 (RD) which someone may or may not want later on and gets dubious returns on it. It's actually more about people QQing over a 1% chance thing of happening while ignoring the advantages of actually being able to take 2 hits. Although this entire board being aran haters doesn't really help the poor guy's case. It's not that being able to take 2 hits is being ignored, it's that the 1-2% chance of crit from everything on the map reduces that usefulness. For example, even if Aran is 4HKO'd and not doubled by cats, so long as the cat has crit Aran can't afford to stay in 3HKO range. In other words, Aran is same as Eddie except Eddie actually has a chance of dodging an attack. This logic extends to tigers and any existent crit with them. Combinations that won't let him be able to take a 26 att. 0 def, 0 HP. 0.092686% chance of happening. 0 def, 1 HP. 1.5757% 0 def, 2 HP. 8.929% 0 def, 3 HP (this technically will let him take a hit, but he takes 21 damage to his 22 HP. He then uses a vulnerary to go back to 21 HP, and then dies on the next hit. I would say it's rather risky to not heal him with Micaiah or Laura in this situation, since if Ilyana/Micaiah fail to kill, or if there's another tiger waiting, he's SOL). 16.865%. 1 def, 0 HP. 0.16636%. 1 def, 1 HP. 2.5453%. 2 def, 0 HP. 0.0806% Comes out to 30.25%. BTW, even if you can somehow refute 0 def, 3 HP, 13.39% >>>>> whatever aran's chances to die in other news, i have a new sig Even using the 30%, all that means is that 30% of the time Aran is better than Eddie vs 26 MT tigers since 0-1% chance of death is obviously > 100% chance of death. The other 70% of the time Eddie is better than/equal to Aran vs 26 MT tigers since 0-1% chance of death is <= 0% chance of death.

Did I miss something that made Elincia worse than she is now by so much that she actually needs a boost?

You can't have double standards about BEXP when comparing BEXP usage in FE9 and FE10. The two systems are too different to be able to draw comparisons. Anyways, no one actually cared all that much about Aran being bad in 1-4. It's not like it ever moved him down in the tier list. The entire debacle only came up since smash was butthurt that Int said Aran was a worse tank in 1-4 than Eddie and has since tried to argue Aran as not being that bad in 1-4. This is so funny. Eddie level 7: Chance of having +3 HP: 61.4125% Chance of having +2 HP: 32.5125% Chance of having +1 HP: 5.7375% Chance of having +0 HP: .3375% Chance of having +3 DEF: 4.2875% Chance of having +2 DEF: 23.8875% Chance of having +1 DEF: 44.3625% Chance of having +0 DEF: 27.4625% Eddie's chance's at level 7 of not being able to take a 26 MT attack is ~13%.

How did I fail to account for that stuff? You're the one who said we already calculated all of that to be equal.

C and X are in no way, shape, or form related. Especially since one is a variable and the other is constant. To put it simply, X is exactly how much I expect every unit to further my goal of beating the game within the chapter. This only makes sense, of course, after admitting that P > C so long as increasing C promotes winning. You seemed to skipped that entire progression. But to really make my point, let's use your example to show the exact same thing. Alright, I can live with that. It's cool and all that you get the same result, but that doesn't mean they've helped the same. So to see who is helping me the most, let's add up all the times they could be helping me and subtract all the times another unit could be helping me, by the respective amounts of help I get of course. Let's look at all the scenarios first, as it is easy enough to do: 2A 1A + 1C 1B + 1C 2B A could be used in 3 possible chapters, B in 3 possible chapters, and C in 2 possible chapters. As A = B = C whenever they are being used, let's just set them all to equal to X. So let's look at how much they help me out. UA (Utility of A) = 3A - 3B - 2C = 3X - 2X - 2X = -2X UB = 3B - 3A - 2C = 3X - 3X - 2X = -2X UC = 2C - 3A - 3B = 2X - 3X - 3X = -4X As you can see A = B > C. Now you could say that this is only true so long as X >= 0, which is true. However, it is impossible of X=0 (that was part of the U = P - C; go back and read it) and if X was negative it would imply that using the characters hinders my winning, which is silly. Well, I'll let you go back to creating a game in which I can rank the characters due to availability then.

I don't think people here realize that being bad while you're forced makes you even worse. I mean, if I have two units that suck terribly, but only one is forced, the forced one is worse solely on the fact that I can't choose to get rid of him and his suck.