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The Revelation Final Boss has Status Immunity though, doesn't it. I think you're right that the Birthright boss isn't immune thought….. Following up… what do you do to avoid being one-shot with Felicia or Joker by the boss? Build up a guard stance first?

I ask because they appear to have 69 Avoid or 70 Avoid at their highest stats. For a default Avatar (before asset/flaw effects) using the Yato, this leads to an average hit rate of 63.5% at 20/15 or 69% at 20/20 against the Revelation final boss. This seems a little low if you want to take out the boss quickly. Tonics can account for 5 hit, and you can take things like skill assets (but then you cannot take a different asset if you do that), or you might take a particular class, like Dark Mage/Dark Knight to get Bind (-20 enemy avoid), Holy Bowman for Raven Strike, Basara for Fascination, etc. Or maybe a STR/SPD/SKL asset (all boost skill) with a high skill class like a Hero….. Do you use attack stance bonuses? Or Gunther's Absolute offense in Revelation? What is your strategy for overcoming the hit rate issues to make it a bit more reliable? Or do you not have a particular strategy for this? Thanks.

Oh, I see, interesting….. I was thinking of +MAG/-LCK Dark Knight, you see, so I wanted to hear from someone who tried it how it worked.

What sort of weapon ranks did you tend to end the game with? I'm presuming B swords thanks to using them before you class change and any use afterwards. Did you manage to reach A-tomes, or was it something lower, like B or C? I presume Dark Mage to start your tome rank early would be a good idea. The only reasons I can think to wait until promotion is that you always keep Yato use that way and Nohr Prince has higher total stat growths than does Dark Mage.

Lodestar gives your Marth as a Lodestar. To actually make Corrin a Lodestar, you need the Encounter with Awakening DLC, which gives 1 Great Lord and 1 Lodestar.

+DEF offers 1 defense immediately and a 10% growth rate, which yields 3.8 more defense by 20/20 [if you get that high] for average results, making a total of 4.8…. maybe 20/15 might be more appropriate, for 4.3 defense total by that point. -HP takes away 2 HP, drops your HP growth rate by 10%, and drops your DEF growth by 5%…. by 20/20, that's a loss of 5.8 DEF, and you've also lost 1.9 DEF/RES…. for 20/15, its 5.3 lost HP and 1.65 lost DEF So, at 20/15, your overall survivability has dropped by 2.65 points with +DEF/-HP in surviving physical attacks. At 20/20, its dropped by -2.9 points. The final boss has 66 attack on the highest difficulties…. As I noted, a 20/20 character in White Blood without an HP flaw or asset tends to have 43.8 HP, or 40.8 HP at 20/15. It tends to have 26.05 DEF at 20/20 or 23.55 DEF at 20/15. Thus, your basic survival threshold ability is 40.8+23.55 at 20/15, or 64.35, which actually means at default values the boss is STILL one-shotting you at the highest difficulties….. you need tonics, pair-up, stat boosters, rallies, or RNG bless to survive, on average [fortunately, 1 HP tonic on average will do the trick]. At 20/20, you have 43.8 + 26.05, or 69.85 for your threshold, so you are actually anticipated to survive a hit of it this time. But if you are taking a -2.9 penalty, you're down to 66.95…. you need 67 HP+DEF to survive 66 ATK, and stats only exist as whole numbers… at an average 66.95 HP+DEF, you'll tend on average to have higher than 66, but on average you'll fall short of the actual full 67 [66.5 or something like that doesn't actually exist in practice during the game] that you need to survive, on average. Maybe you'll survive with RNG blessing, but the point is you'd be requiring an HP tonic even at 20/20 just to survive on average… and if you get HP-screwed….. Of course, you can always get HP-screwed, but higher base growth rates make this far less likely.

A default Avatar has a 30% MAG growth… +MAG can bring it up to 50%… -LCK/-RES can bring it down from that to 45% [but if you're running hybrid, you probably don't want -STR, -SKL could cause hit-rate issues and basically hugely nerfs skill activations, -SPD would be a bad idea [+MAG offsets it, but I still wouldn't advise it at all]. -HP is asking to become even frailer (concerns of getting 1-shot by the final boss). -DEF gives you maximum offenses (45% STR, 50% Magic), but also raises major concerns about durability. So, if we do a 45% Mag combination…. that's just less than the personal rates that Sakura/Nyx get at 50%, but better than Tsukuyomi's 40% and equal to Saizou's 45%. Accounting for class growths, you'd have the same rate as Tsukuyomi at first: 45% + 10% = 55 vs. 40%+15% = 55%. You won't be as high as Sakura or Nyx, but you'll have superior physical options to fall back on (and Yato)…. you also aren't' nearly as high as Orochi's 65% personal (80% with class), but she's horrendously slow… 15% personal + 15% class = 30%, less than Tsubaki, and she doesn't even have Swallow Strike to help her out early in the game. In contrast, +MAG/-LCK gives you something like 50% personal speed (45%+5%) and your starting class has 10% class speed, for a total 60% speed growth. That's the same growth rate that Pegasus Hinoka has (50%+10% = 45%+15%).

Stats are not created equal. SPD is a far more significant stat than LCK. 1 point of SPD is not of the same value as 1 point of LCK. I would indeed argue that -1 base speed, -10% speed growth, and -3 speed cap is FAR worse [more hurtful to you] than -2 base luck, -20% luck growth, and -3 luck cap. ​SPD is related to doubling your offense, preventing yourself from taking double damage, and evasion. Luck's influence on hit and avoid is weak: 0.5 hit per luck (vs. 1.5 hit per skill), 0.5 avoid per luck (vs. 1.5 avoid per speed). Luck in this game gives 0.5 critical evasion per point of luck, and Guard Stance is already +5 critical evasion. You also have personal skill's like Lutz' lucky soul and you have attack stance luck bonuses.

SPD is an awful flaw…. its too important of a stat….. and remember, there are also penalties to your bases….

Forgive the formatting issues from copy/paste Matoi x Kamui(M) C-S Rank http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/114533-fire-emblem-fates-black-kingdom/72073245?page=7#77 http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/114533-fire-emblem-fates-black-kingdom/72073245?page=7#78 http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/114533-fire-emblem-fates-black-kingdom/72073245?page=7#80 http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/114533-fire-emblem-fates-black-kingdom/72073245?page=8#81 http://pastebin.com/Tmki145n Also, I just read Matoi x Kanna (M) and I agree that it was really cute. That said, I ship Corrin x Matoi, so Matoi is going to be ending up as Kanna (F)'s mother rather than Kanna (M)'s partner. But yeah, so it seems like Matoi likes teaching and tutoring, as we see in the A-support. That's nice… I like doing it too [and the Avatar tutors her in turn in their own support tree]. I'm a tutor myself and like teaching, so this sort of thing is something I connect with.

Well, in this game, HP asset is worth +3 starting HP and +15% growth rates, as well as +5% defense and resistance growth rates. Your Avatar by default starts with 19 HP, promoting to White Blood/Dark Blood is either +2 HP or +1 HP, and if your HP growth isn't affected by asset or flaw you have a default 60% growth rate [which becomes 75% with an asset]. Over 38 levels from 1/0 to 20/20 [the highest you can get before you're forced to use Eternal Seals, and what in many FEs used to be the maximum level], an HP asset is responsible for giving you +5.7 extra HP from growth (on average) and +3 extra HP from bases, so you end up with +8.7 extra HP on average. A level 20/20 White Blood with no HP asset averages out at 43.8 HP (42.8 HP as a Dark Blood), so an HP asset would get you to an average of 52.5 HP at 20/20, so its almost a 20% increase in your total HP, combined with +1.9 (on average) extra points of DEF and RES. It doesn't seem that bad. Of course, in postgame, it won't increase your maximum HP; its still +1 STR, +1 Mag, +2 Luck, +2 Defense, +2 Resistance.

Well, Dark Knight's weapon rank caps out at B, so your growth of your weapon rank would actually halt at B as a Dark Knight. Most unpromoted classes also cap out at B-ranks in many cases. So from Nohr Prince, you could promote to White Blood, for example, and start with a B rank. In White Blood, you could work up to A. But if you switched to Dark Knight first before working to A, your sword rank growth would halt until you returned to a class like White Blood that allows A-rank. Now, yes, you're right, you can gain weapon rank without leveling, so if we ignore Eternal Seals [raise level cap by 5 per use, but cost 6x the price of other seals], you could get +0.95 extra growths in STR as a Dark Knight, switch over to White Blood to gain +2 more STR in bases/caps [which should immediately increase your STR by 2], and then fill in the remaining weapon experience to get your A-rank, and yes, at 20/20 you could end up with slightly higher STR. Now, in no-grind, you might not actually have time to do that, as you might not actually reach 20/20 in the first place and you then might be too close to the end of the game [barring an Arms Scroll]. But say, if you weren't using Eternal Seals and were keeping your units ending at 20/20 forever for some reason [like old Fire Emblem games without infinite leveling], yes, you could squeeze out, on average [variations in RNG means no guarantee] more STR overall this way. One extra caveat is that Dark Knight does actually have 5% lower combined growths than White blood…. you will end up with about 0.95 total extra STR from level ups on average, but on average you'll end up with 0.95 total stats from leveling. Although this is somewhat offset because Dark Knight actually has higher base stats than White Blood does… White Blood [bases]: 19 HP, 10 Strength, 4 Magic, 5 Skill, 6 Speed, 4 Luck, 7 Defense, 3 Resistance, 6 Move Dark Knight [bases]: 19 HP, 8 Strength, 6 Magic, 6 Skill, 5 Speed, 3 Luck, 8 Defense, 6 Resistance, 8 Move As such, unless ramming against a cap, class changing from Dark Knight to White Blood gives you: +0 HP, +2 Str, -2 Magic, -1 Skil, +1 Speed, +1 Luck, -1 Defense, -3 Resistance, -2 Move Overall, Dark Knight has 3 more non-move stat points and 2 more move points in bases, although it trades strength for magic and has worse speed [also 5% less in growths]. But Dark Knight has lower overall caps [might not be reached in main game] White Blood: 60 HP, 34 Str, 28 Magic, 29 Skill, 30 Speed, 33 Luck, 31 Defense, 28 Resistance, 6 Move, A-swords, A-stones, B-staves Dark Knight: 55 HP, 32 Str, 31 Magic, 28 Skill, 27 Speed, 31 Luck, 34 Defense, 30 Resistance , 8 Move, A-tomes, B-swords The speed cap is a notable drawback. They do have better defenses, however, and they can use Horse God [a tome, which therefore White Blood cannot use] to both close the gap on the speed while further augmenting defenses [+3 Skill, +3 Speed, +3 Defense, +3 Resistance when equipped]. Although Horse God has low might, so presumably its not your only weapon of choice.

Yes, I'd agree, extreme class diversity does tend to be overrated, but I know that many people just like preserving the option, even if its not remotely necessary. Anyways, I could foresee a Dark Mage/Dark Knight/Sorcerer avatar working with physical units who ended up in a class with a decent basic magic stat and whom had mild magic growths… you wouldn't be running them [the spouse] primarily as a mage, but it might really help enable strategies such as Shockstick abuse [but this is not unique to Dark Knight]….. Dark Knight (+3 magic, class bonus) + Personal Bonus (+1 magic at S-rank if +MAG asset) + Mysterious Appeal (+2 damage if C-support or better)….. that could easily be a +2 physical/+6 magical damage boost for your partner, which combined with the high might of Shocksticks (they have 2 more might than Steels, are 1-2 range, and don't have doubling penalties in exchange for avoid/skill activation/critical hit activation penalties) might allow a character like a Falcon Knight, a Basara, or a Mountain Priest to do really well magically, even if they seem to be a mainly physical character. Anyways, outside of the DLC (Grandmaster, male only), Dark Knight is the only sword + tome option in the game on Hoshido [Dark Blood is Nohr/3rd route only], so if you want a hybrid unit who can use tomes but still has access to Yato for the final battles [where it can partly bypass the enemy Dragonskin skill, dealing 75% damage instead of everything else's 50% damage, not to mention it has high might], Dark Knight might be the way to go. But if you don't care for hybrid units, you'll want something else.

Depends on what you mean by "necessary". If you mean, "necessary to beat the game", of course not. If you mean, "necessary to have in order to represent as many classes as possible within the class/class-change options of your non-generic characters", then basically yes. But of course, regarding the latter point, there's no real in-game reason why you NEED to have all classes represented; its not like you'll be making use of all of them anyways. Regarding the issue of physical units and Dark Mages…. The Dark Knight actually does have a 20% STR growth, which is one of the stronger STR growths available and better than what you get from White Blood (20% vs. 15%). White Blood does have higher base STR (8 Dark Knight vs. 10 White Blood) and has a higher sword rank available. But this means that statistically speaking you can squeeze out more STR growth on average by leveling as a Dark Knight over a White Blood (for +5% more growths in STR) and then switching to White Blood when you are done (to get +2 more STR in bases and caps). HOWEVER, there is the slight problem of weapon ranks…. you'll basically gain about +1 more STR, but you'll miss out on +1 more attack when not at triangle disadvantage, so its a wash, basically.

I'll also commented that in the Hoshido route, Dark Mage doesn't exist as a primary or secondary class on ANY of your playable characters. [Crismon gets Knight, Asyura gets Fighter, Silas and Felicia get Mercenary]. The only characters who would have it by default would be captured Dark Mage generics. Thus, one of the only ways to get one is to bring in an Avatar with an appropriate secondary: Dark Mage secondary Avatars, and perhaps you could invoke a replacement class with Spellcaster Avatars married to a Spellcaster to give it to the spouse [but not the Avatar or Kanna themselves]. Taking a Dark Mage Avatar lets you get it on your Avatar, their spouse, and Kanna.

How was Dark Knight Kamui in Hoshido? I've been strongly considering this, but haven't had the opportunity to put it into actual practice yet [don't have the game]. Did you go Nohr Prince --> Dark Mage --> Dark Knight or Nohr Prince ---> White Blood --> Dark Knight? Or some other path? Did you use a +MAG asset? What of the flaw? How did you handle the speed issues? Yato I assume (+2 SPD part way through, +4 SPD in the last two chapters) helps. But did you do stuff like Pegasus/Samurai/Ninja/Spellcaster pair-up, tonics, Horse God, etc.

Disclaimer; I haven't played the game, so my impressions might be wrong…. 1. Sakura x Tsukuyomi…. you might not actually use Tsukuyomi in the main game due to being under leveled, but if you do, sure, this sound find…. plenty of magic for the two of them and Syalla, without Orochi's speed penalty on Syalla 2, Ryoma x Kageoru … sounds good 3. Mozu x Asama …. maybe late game Mozu going archer, inheriting Bowfaire onto Mitama, and going War Priestess with her? I don't see them pairing together well in the main game, but it might work for Mitama in postgame. 4. Setsuna x Subaki…. sounds good, easy Prescient Victory 5. Azura x Nishiki… lots of SPD, good SPD/STR from Azura in growths….. depends on whether you actually get Azura paired, however 6. Silas x Hinoka … a good mutual pairing 7. Jakob x Rinkah … I don't understand the reasoning here. 8. Kaze x Orochi … for postgame, seems a waste of a speed mod…. this really nerfs Midoriko's speed growth, and her starting class isn't magical, so she might struggle. 9. Saizou x Hana …. Saizou doesn't get a class from Hana, but she gets Ninja/Elite Ninja…. Priest on Gurei could be interesting in the long term, but Hana's magic growth is going to make Gurei's magic more mediocre 10. Takumi x Oboro … seems okay enough, although Takumi won't get a class from Oboro. 11. Hinata x Felicia … is this just pair the spares, or is this some sort of plan to put Tomebreaker on Hisame?

Well, yeah, I suppose Sakura might be a weak link then…. it was more of a thematic consideration [the Hoshidan family]

Felicia as the alternative for Silas if not going with Hinoka? Is that because of the speed bonuses that she has [class+personal}? I suppose that she could also pass down a high level skill to Sophie thanks to her promoted class and skill gaining while gaining EXP like a regular unit status. Whom would you give Ryouma if I did Oboro!Matoi [you indicate for if Hinoka!Matoi, but not for the reverse]. Would he be unpaired then?

Well, strictly speaking, Oboro/Hinoka for Matoi would be interchangeable in terms of the preference category, so I could in principle open a fourth slot if I wasn't running Oboro [whereas Hinoka is fixed by running all of the royals], but Oboro seems like a pretty good unit so I imagine that I might very well end up running her anyways [regardless of whether she's Matoi's mother like you suggest might be in-game optimal or whether she's with someone else]. I guess that Felicia might want to go for early strategist? Well, that or Avatar going unpromoted Dark Mage early on….if I don't have one cover it, I'm likely to have a dearth of tome users…. I'm kind of envisioning taking the Avatar into Dark Knight so that I can get the spells that I like as a personal preference standpoint while not having to give up the ability to use Yato on the final battles. But I can get into Dark Knight by Nohr Prince --> Dark Mage --> Dark Knight or by Nohr Prince --> White Blood --> Dark Knight. Would it be better for me to give Felicia [if I take her up into my team like you suggest] or the Avatar the early seal. I suppose Silas makes a lot of sense. I didn't feel necessarily as "committed" to using him as the others, but I imagined that I'd probably use him anyways as he seemed pretty good. Saizou… well, I have no strong opinions on him one way or the other…. but he and his son seem to have good growths…. seems reasonable enough…. Do you have any suggestions of how to pair off in this pool and to my restrictions? Assuming I take your suggestions…. Characters available: Corrin, Ryoma, Hinoka, Takumi, Sakura, Baki, Azura, Kaze, and Oboro. Felicia, Silas and probably Saizou. And of course, Matoi….. Corrin x Matoi ---> Kanna Ryoma x ???? Takumi x ???? Tsubaki x either Hinoka OR Oboro ---> Hinoka!Matoi/Oboro!Matoi Kaze x ???? Silas x ???? Saizou x ??? ​Of course, another relevant concern is that not everyone might actually get paired up in a no-grind run, even among this group, depending on how support building goes and stuff like the need to sing, heal, etc. ​Of the characters I listed or you suggested, the kids would be Kanna Matoi Shinonome Kisaragi Midoriko Sophie Gurei Given my restrictions, I'm definitely bringing Matoi onto the team? Which other kids do you think I should incorporate onto the team? Anyone whom I should use to unlock a kid and then replace with their kid (or another kid)? I presume that since I'm trying to A-rank Kaze for reasons that the Mysterious Appeal of the Avatar and his class pair-up could partly or fully replace Rinkah's pair-up function early in the game, after the Birthright split…. ​Anyways, thanks for the commentary so far.

I don't have the game yet [waiting for Feb. 19th], but I wanted to put some advance thought into it. My intention is to play in the order of Birthright --> Conquest --> Revelation. I've planning to start on Hard/Classic [i may do Lunatic in a future run, but I just want to get used to the changes from Awakening ---> Fates first], and I want to do no-grind. I would also like my team to obey a few restrictions or attempt to follow a few guidelines. Some are obvious not optimal by any stretch of the imagination, but I'd like to do them because of personal preference…. Could you guys offer advice of how to structure the rest of my team, what pairings I should try establishing, etc.? Naturally, availability will also be a concern, as well as having the deployment slots open at any one time to be able to accommodate the characters in question. That said, my restrictions or preferences/guidelines: 1. I am going to play as a Male Avatar. 2. I would prefer to utilize the 4 Hoshidan royal siblings, although unlike some of the other restrictions I am not adamant about this [but many of them are very good units anwyays] 3. I want to marry my Avatar to Matoi during the course of the game. As Matoi is a 2nd gen, this necessitates using her father [Tsubaki] for AT LEAST long enough to get him married to a character. 3a. I have a preference for either Hinoka!Matoi (redhead, high growths, closest Matoi can look like to Cordelia in Birthright with non-Avatar parents) or Oboro!Matoi (looks vaguely like Lucina, but with a character like Cordelia) 3b. But I am willing to consider other Matoi variants. 3c. Because I want to get my Avatar married to her and I'm doing no-grind, Matoi must be recruited early enough in the game for the Avatar to have enough battles alongside her to gain the S-support with her [preferably with a comfortable safety margin] 4. I want to make sure that all my playable characters end the game alive. 5. I am planning to take Dark Mage as my secondary class tree and am very likely to take a +MAG asset. This is a combination of personal preference and the fact that its one of the only ways to get non-generic/non-captured/non-MyCastle Dark Mages/Dark Knights/Sorcerers as playable characters onto your team in Birthright; none of the other player characters have a Dark Mage primary or secondary in Birthright . 6. I'm probably using Azura as a Singer. What suggestions might you have? Whom should I use on the team to fill the gaps of the characters I haven't decided on yet? Whom should I pair/support with the characters I am planning to use? etc.

From an in-game practicality perspective, I know that Shephen has argued for Oboro/Tsubaki, and the reasoning seems sound. If I recall correctly, this was accompanied by Hinoka/Silas. But for a long-term perspective [i.e., grinding to max out stats/skills without regards to main-game ease of use or creation of the pairing], would it be better to go with Hinoka/Tsubaki and Oboro/Silas? This is particularly an issue relating to Lancefaire/Breaking Sky from the Lance Fighter tree. For in-game practicality, I've seen Hinoka/Silas and and Tsubaki/Oboro recommended because of complementary pair-up bonuses, that and lots of re-classing might not take place and -faire skills only show up extremely late in the game anyways. In this setup, Oboro gives Tsubaki/Matoi Lance Fighter (and thus Lancefaire/Breaking Sky), while Hinoka passes down her Pegasus. But if you do Hinoka/Tsubaki and Silas/Oboro for long term, you can force Hinoka to give Matoi & Tsubaki her lance fighter, and Oboro can still give her lance fighter to Silas/Sophie. Or would Hinoka/Silas and Oboro/Tsubaki still be better for the postgame? Oboro!Matoi arguably has better mods [more min-maxed, with stronger positive mods at the cost of a few minor negative mods in LCK/RES], but HinokaxTsubaki & Oboro&Silas lets you distribute Breaking Sky/Lancefaire to an extra two units [although at the cost of Pegasus]. I guess its a question of what will be more impactive…

As a point related to general practicality, have we figured out how the base stats of the units are influenced by parental stats yet? I think its pretty clearly established that it doesn't work like Awakening and isn't remotely as huge of an effect, but it still seems to be there. This could be relevant for predicting stat averages…. if a character is on average a point or two ahead of what we'd expect, then in some cases that might make the different between their average outcome breaking some benchmark or another. It probably won't make a huge difference from practicality, but in some cases it might influence how easy or hard it is to train a particular child, or stuff like that. For example, according to Serenes' data, Matoi has default personal + class base stats of 24 HP, 11 Str, 3 Mag, 10 Skill, 13 Speed, 13 Luck, 7 Defense, and 12 Res at level 10, plus an unknown amount of extra base stats from her parents. And we know that there can be a variation. For example, another user (perhaps it was Arya?) some months back provided me data on level 10/0 Rinkah!Midoriko and Hana!Matoi. The former had +2 Spd/+2 Res higher than class base + default personal base would suggest, while Hana!Matoi had +1 Skill/+1 Defense above the class base + default personal base. If we could find the rules, the rhyme and reason behind how these extra stats get assigned, we could apply this knowledge to all of the children and to all of their variants. But in the meantime, we're in a situation were we don't necessarily know what level of extra stats a child like an Oboro!Matoi will have compared to these bases vs. what a Hinoka!Matoi or a Selena!Matoi will have, for instance. Is there any insight on this question? These effects will ultimately increase the anticipated endgame stats achieved in no-grind, by elevating a few stats above the original expectations.

On this note, would you do Matoi's paralogue early or not? Rally Speed (or Soar) + D rank secondary weapon after Ch. 20 [as you said] or early Swordslayer? I'm guessing you'll say early given the item example you cited, but I'd just like to double check.

Really, the only real reason I would see possibly doing Rinkah x Tsubaki for a Rinkah!Matoi's sake is if you were for some reason planning to breed her as a dedicated pair-up unit as opposed to using her as a lead combat unit yourself. I'd tend to think that that is a waste of Matoi, but if I understand personal pair-up bonuses correctly then Rinkah!Matoi would offer +2 Speed and +3 Defense, which when combined with a Falcon Knight's bonuses is +5 Speed, +3 Defense, +3 Resistance, and +1 Move. I don't think its a good use of Matoi… but its an option.