NekoKnight

That's something I haven't heard before, a character criticized for not being enough of a self-insert.

>Xander being that high up >Elise being higher than Oboro mfw Did you know my tastes are objectively better than yours? Oh boy...

For those curious, the Mechanist puppet is modeled after the Shishimae, which is Japan's version of the Chinese Lion Dance outfit. I always thought they looked more bovine but what do I know. [spoiler=Yukimura's pajamas]

It's an interesting headcanon but I don't think it was stated or implied anywhere that Anankos needed a host in *insertcontinentnamehere*. Is it even said that Anankos is unable to leave Valla? Whenever it takes fan-theories to explain really important plot elements, I'm more inclined to think it wasn't the intention of the writers. If it was true, the writers would communicate that to the players.

So his end goal was to possess Kamui? To what end? If he knew who exactly Kamui was, why didn't he kill Kamui earlier?

She tells him in their Conquest support that he should feel bad about supporting the invasion. She's not actually criticizing him though, she's basically saying that feeling bad about hurting people is natural and that it would be wrong if he didn't feel guilt. It's honestly a pretty decent support, and it would be a meaningful way to confront Kamui's guilt...if only Kamui hadn't brought the misfortune on himself by choosing to support Garon.

Oh, I don't spare Azura any criticism for her disastrous handling of the situation, but Kamui all too readily agreed with her insane plan so I still place the blame on him. One thing I've heard said a lot about Kamui is that he's naive so his poor decision making is understandable. While it would make sense for Kamui to be a terrible leader, nothing in the story indicates this to be an intentional flaw of his character. The game isn't shining a light on him saying "Look at this idiot. This is what happens when a heavily sheltered child is pushed out into the world", rather the story wants to portray him as the hyper-charismatic righteous hero, contrary to what you'd expect of the guy who knows less than Jon Snow. His "failings" in the story aren't "I suck", it's "these situations suck". His naivete and automatic trust in people is praised and defended by other characters rather than condemned like it should be. Perhaps Kamui could be an interesting subversion of the typical shonen hero, but time and time again, Fates is oblivious to it's own flawed storytelling. I'm sure Phillius will write an essay about this if he hasn't already.

'Tropespeak' don't sound like no language to me. English, motherfucker, do you speak it!? I think the point of Sanaki's criticism (if it can even be called that) of Micaiah is less about the tactic itself, rather she's questioning Micaiah's motives. Daein doesn't really have a reason to be fighting in the war so to go as far as using oil and fire to kill off every single member of Sanaki's party (herself included) is atypical of what they know of Micaiah. Micaiah is desperate to win and Sanaki wants to know why. As a moral paragon, Kamui was undeniably the wrong sort of protagonist for a morally grey kingdom. Other characters stunted his character growth by their constant coddling and the expectation that Kamui was some chosen hero. All that said, he is still a person with agency and his actions in the plot should be judged for their merit (without resorting to meta explanations why he has no choice but to be a bad character). I think we'll have to agree to disagree on Kamui's lack of culpability for his actions.

I think you are misusing that term. Protagonist centered morality is when another character's morality is determined by how much the protagonist likes them, regardless of their actual merit. Ex. Pardoning a serial killer because he saved your girlfriend's life one time, or framing a guy for a heinous crime because he had the audacity to insult your haircut. The morality of the Walharts forces wasn't determined because Chrom or Robin didn't like them, it's because they were enemies who intended to invade their continent. Robin used a legitimate military tactic against hostile soldiers. You're acting like Robin's actions were unethical but the game ignored it because he's on the protagonist's side.

Micaiah also earned her positive reputation within Daein by fighting against superior odds to liberate her people. Kamui is worshiped just for existing and being the chosen one.

Any "______ vs Kamui" poll is going to lean in _______'s favor. As I said in the other thread, what really separates Micaiah from Kamui is: -Micaiah isn't self-righteous about her actions and acknowledges she's doing the unjust thing because she can't stand to sacrifice her people. And most importantly: -When Micaiah is put into a situation where she has to compromise her morals, she immediately takes action to remove herself from that situation. Agency is a huge element of what makes a strong protagonist and Conquest!Kamui is so severely lacking in this department. Micaiah makes mistakes and she owns up to them. Kamui takes no actions and any tragedies are pinned on someone else. I think the biggest problem for the story is we are never told anything good about Nohr, besides what we know of the playable characters. Daein is portrayed as flawed but still having a lot of good people (and racist people, realistically no nation is perfect). We KNOW Micaiah as a good reason to be fighting, even to go as far as supporting an evil faction. The only thing we can say in Kamui's favor is him wanting to protect his Nohrian siblings, which is a decent excuse but it pales in comparison to what Micaiah fights for. Had the conquest of Hoshido been painted in a sympathetic light and the Nohrian leadership characterized as more than mustache twirling monsters, we could get behind Kamui being a tragic hero. I am one as well. We must find the other 2. The only thing I disliked about Micaiah was them stacking on a bunch of "special points" onto her near the end of the narrative, but in general, I thought highly of her personality and role in the story.

Stop, both of you! IS would do it! Polygamy seems like a possible (moral) explanation for why Sumeragi was seeing two women at once and it would fit in a pseudo-feudal-Japan. Still, considering how polygamy is generally frowned upon in the modern day (and that I don't recall any positive depictions of polygamy in Fire Emblem), you'd think they'd tell the player if that was their intended story. Verdict: They didn't think about it very hard. As for why Mikoto is still Queen (and Ryoma isn't King after her death), the Watsonian answer could be that Ryoma felt she would be a better ruler so he ceded his rightful position. The Doylist answer is probably that they wanted the Nohrian sibling parallels to remain intact and they couldn't have Ryoma be a king if Marx was still a prince.

Balus!

Yes, YES! Micaiah was done perfectly and Radiant Dawn's drama (Blood Pact bullshit regardless) was handled way better than Conquest. When Micaiah was forced to serve the people she despised and fight in a war she had no desire to, what did she do? Did she say "Okay, let's serve the bad guys until a lot of innocent people are killed, THEN we take action."? NO! She immediately asked Pelleas to search for a way break the blood pact, all while stalling as long as she can to keep her people out of the conflict. She's aware that she's doing bad things but she accepts them because it's to protect her homeland. She never gets any self-righteous thoughts like "I'm doing this for everyone's sake!" as Kamui does. That's my point though. Neither Robin or Micaiah (for that specific action, Sothe still calls her out in other situations) are criticized by their own teams for using ruthless tactics, so the problem isn't with them. The action of using fire was necessary for both characters because they had no chance of winning in direct combat. What makes Radiant Dawn work is having other sympathetic points of view to criticize the protagonist. Sanaki's forces didn't even WANT to fight Micaiah's forces so she is able to make criticism that we care about. Awakening's foes are not at all sympathetic so neither the player nor characters in game have a reason to feel bad about what they're doing. In other words, the fault lies not in Robin, it's in the story not giving you a reason to sympathize with his enemies. One could argue that the tone of the battle was too light, but that's an issue with the entire game. Until they let us make relevant choices that define our morality, the Avatar is never going to be a good representation of what players want their character to be. Even now, the only thing we really have control over are class sets, appearance and who we ship our Avatar with. If we can't actually choose who they are as a character, rather than give us a generic personality to project on, they should give us a personality that players will like.

There is an important difference in how both incidents were treated in universe. In Radiant Dawn, the one who objects to Micaiah's ruthless tactics is Sanaki, aka the target of the attempted (she doesn't actually succeed) fire massacre. Even then, her comments about the incident aren't to say that Micaiah is a shitty person; Sanaki was confused about what could drive Micaiah to be so vicious. While no one on Robin's team criticized him, the correct parallel to Sanaki would be a Valmese general (which still isn't perfect because Sanaki is a sympathetic POV and Walharts forces aren't), which we don't get the perspective of. Sure, Robin's "Burn them all" strategy should have been met with something more sobering than "gg wp Robin" but it's not like Sothe criticized Micaiah for a similar tactic. tl;dr, while RD had the maturity to have someone comment that Micaiah was being cruel, that comment didn't come from anyone on her own team, in the same way that Robin wasn't criticized by anyone of his team. Lastly, I don't believe being above criticism is an instrinsic quality of player avatars, like Robin and Kamui seem to be. IS just sucks at writing.

I'm genuinely curious to see how Robin being the protagonist of Conquest would change things. I think he'd be actively planning Garon's demise instead of just waiting for stuff to happen. Surely Ganz at least would be dead before the half-way point. Kamui was actually just adopted by Mikoto and his real, REAL mother is the Queen of Atlantis. Kamui is a water dragon. My theory is supported by canon.

With the exception of Camilla, who has a more stylized outfit, all of the sibling characters outfits are designed like their default class. It's an odd conclusion to reach that because they appear a few times un-mounted, they were originally conceived as unmounted classes. As an aside, does it seem weird to anyone that Hinoka isn't a prepromote? Her backstory has her training from like the age of 7 to become a pegasus warrior in order to save Kamui. Normally I wouldn't care because a character's level need not represent their canon abilities, but considering the parallels to the Nohrian siblings, it seems like she of all people should be promoted.

Conquest!Kamui left me forever soured on his character but even in the other routes, he never graduates past "generic shonen anime protagonist with oodles of unwarranted charisma". It really rubs me the wrong way that he has no qualifications for leading the army and he never suffers for fucking up because his siblings will coddle him. In contrast, Robin's relationship with Chrom and the army makes a lot more sense and I enjoy having a tactical-minded person as my avatar because that's what I am, the strategist. Gameplay, I'd say they are about even. While Kamui has versatility with swords and dragonstones (and then tomes or rods), I love magic classes and having it in the base class makes me really enjoy Robin. I love the Strategist robes, but Mamui's (not a fan of Femui's battle leotard) clothes are also acceptable.

Small point: While Takumi being a dick to Azura because of her heritage is a legitimate flaw, it's not like he only had a reason to dislike Nohr after Mikoto was killed. His dad was also murdered by Nohrians and Nohr frequently sends in Faceless to attack Hoshido. Racism seems like the most 'normal' flaw a person could have for two nations who have perpetual hostile relations.

It's easy to say Leon and Takumi are more interesting characters but much of the story would have to be restructured to get the same kind of emotional impact because the plot is tailor-made for Kamui to be the center of the family drama. Kamui has the backstory and circumstances to be the best protagonist but they gave him a generic self-insert personality and went overboard on the player worship. I can get behind these ideas. Leon would made a good anti-hero protagonist which would fit in the morally grey premise of Conquest. I think Takumi is defined by not being the main character so Hinoka would be preferable.

This is one of my favorite posts on the thread. We need more Nichijou Emblem.

It does have some really frustrating gameplay elements (freaking missile attacks hitting your own guys), and I'd regard FFTA and Fates as being mechanically superior srpgs but it's still pretty fun. My biggest criticism is a lot of numbers and features are never explained. In terms of the story telling style (which in itself is tied to gameplay choices), it's shaping up to be one of my favorite games. It gets the right tone, with characters treating events with the gravity they deserve. Even when my choices don't have super long-reaching effects, the way the game portrays their impact makes me enjoy and get invested in the story. And was the protagonist of 4 main titles, has appeared in every Super Smash Bros since Melee and is generally considered the face of the series. As far as his personality is concerned, the only praise I've heard from people is about his "I'm a prince before I'm a son or brother" line. He's a fine protagonist, but I wouldn't really describe him anymore standout than, say, Eliwood.

More choices with relevant consequence sounds good. After playing Tactics Ogre, one feature I'd like to see in Fire Emblem is the evolving character bios and news reports. In tactics ogre, each character bio would reflect what they were doing in the plot, according to what happened (which changed based on your actions). Also, the news reports show how the WORLD reacted to everything you were doing in the plot. One thing Fire Emblem could really use more of is world building, and the player will feel more invested in their choices if they can see all the impacts they have, directly in gameplay but also in the evolving world.

The agony of choice.

I know the Fujin Yumi was a bit OP but isn't that too much of a I'll show myself out.