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tbh I don't really understand the difference between just outing your spellcard right now and during the night. The mafia will get to know it either way, and I can't really see how them knowing it before the lynch will affect anything.

Strege, if you're sleeping soon, you should probably vote first. And look at Manix's last few posts, I guess, since you said that you hadn't seen much in his defence.

I'll be here for phase end, because who needs sleep anyways. Kirsche might have woken up by then, idk, but I doubt Strege will stay awake for it. Strege, is Manix still your top scumread, or did you unvote just so that he couldn't be hammered? Not sure.

Why are you telling me what I was doing? I've already said like ten times that I'm not treating Boron as 100% cleared, I didn't need to do something like that to "establish uncertainty" about her. And what exactly is so dumb about it, pray tell?

I was trying to set aside PoE so that it could appeal to Strege/Boron/Kirsche too.

Well anyways I'm going to just go back to ##Vote: Shinori since the anonymous vote is gone and on top of earlier stuff, I didn't really like his reaction to the vote. It felt like he was trying to use it as proof he was town.

The mafia don't even technically need a mislynch, even an ITP lynch would win the game for them. But hunting explicitly for the ITP at this stage would be super bad so they're not going to suggest that.

How does towncred mean little right now? It means a lot, because if the mafia can even get enough just to mislynch someone today, they win the game. If Shinori had just stuck to using the lynchproof potion, that wouldn't actually have made him look any better for tomorrow, and as I realized earlier, a no lynch doesn't mean that town can't win anymore, and it certainly doesn't mean that the mafia are guaranteed victory. I agree with the Manix point though. He's been super lazy, and I know he's got stuff going on irl, but I just don't like the large periods of time where he kept posting but wasnt really scumhunting at all.

If the anonymous vote had anything to do with my vote, why wouldn't it have been there from the beginning? You're making connections where none exist.

The vote wore off, it seems, which implies it wasn't an actual vote. And Shinori, I know that you're not looking at it in that manner. My point was similar to what Strege made- that logic might be fine for you, from your POV, but it doesn't work for anyone else in the game.

@Shinori- You haven't heard of mafia targeting a scumbuddy with a public, scummy action? Like silencing or kidnapping them or whatever. @Strege- I know you don't, which is why I said that it would prevent you from winning with us, because we'd need you to stick around for your vote until the end. Unless they tried to kill you the same night you won, which would result in a sort of no-kill to balance out the no-lynch. And even then, that'd need to occur on N8 I think, not tonight. And it's all assuming the other ITP has no more killing powers left. I'm not advocating a no lynch, just saying that it doesn't result in a loss in all situations.

I was running numbers and it's actually possible for town to win following a nolynch, but unless the mafia tried to kill Strege the same night he successfully guessed the scumteam, it would prevent Strege from winning with us, because he otherwise has to stay around to play kingmaker between the town and scum. @Shinori- we don't know if the vote is real or not, and even if it is, you/your buddy could have placed it on yourself for towncred.

I think Manix is a L-1 now? I'll wait to see who Boron would rather lynch. If she chooses Manix over Shinori, I'm fine with it.

Unless it's a fake modscene, in which case the mafia would know that voting for you wouldn't actually hammer you anyways. And as I said earlier, it's not advantageous for the ITP to go for a quickhammer either, since they need to lynch mafia today to have a shot at winning too.

Manix, have you NOT seen me make a big deal almost the entire phase of not treating Boron as a 100% clear? Even if it won't do any harm by keeping my vote on, it won't do any harm by taking it off either. What I dislike more about Kirsche's desire for Shinori not to get quickhammered is that he didn't care earlier about quickhammering Manix, and since he's not mafia, the distinction here is clearly that he's so certain that Shinori is not mafia and me/Manix are, that he's worried about Shinori getting hammered early but not Manix. That's sort of annoying because he's not even trying to keep looking. Also, whether or not you can self-target is based person-by-person. There's no guarantee that Shinori couldn't have targeted himself with that. The point of putting PoE aside for a moment was to try and make and say something that would also be valid for people other than me, like Boron/Strege/Kirsche, who are the people I need to convince that I'm not mafia.

Although I'm inclined to agree that it was a fake modscene, ##Unvote just in case. Putting PoE and all aside for a moment, I'm not sure if the mafia would target a member of the mafia for towncred, or expect that town would think of that, and therefore target a member of the town. What I do think, however, is that it's an attempt to frame me. I'm the one who's claimed a ghostvote power, and I think it's an attempt to get me mislynched for "lying" about how it turns off at MYLO. Also, if my spellcards didn't turn off at MYLO, I could have hammered Shinori already through ghostvote + persuade (and it would be pretty weird for only one of these to turn off and the other to stay usable).

It does deactivate at MYLO; that's not me. >_> Besides, my ghostvote is a spellcard I'd have to declare in thread, and it's called Abandoned Parasol, not ????. Besides, if I could use my ghostvote right now (and I was scum), I would use it at L-1 to hammer, not at L-2.

Yeah, on second thought, maybe not my best logic. They probably wouldn't mind a no lynch, but a mislynch is still preferable, obviously.

home emergency, don't expect me for a while

It's possible they're still there, but I'm not it if that's your implication. Yeah, I know, it's just something that you'd have to accept.

Well, okay. Say we no lynch. The scumteam then has to choose who to kill. Killing one of me/Shinori/Manix is sort of dumb since we're the larger ML candidates, and killing one of Kirsche/Boron makes them lose wiggle room. Killing you is sort of a waste because you could leave the game on your own. A no lynch will cause town to probably lose, but that doesn't mean it makes for an easier mafia win. The easiest mafia win is for a mislynch today.

Also, I said why I wanted to know whether you thought I should have kept my GF info to myself. You pressured me for outing the info, so I asked whether you would have outed the info yourself, as pressuring me for something you yourself would have done would have been suspicious. After that I kept pushing it because you sidestepped the question several times. I personally stand behind the fact that you were rolespeccing by pushing me for outing the GF info. I know that I was the reason that discussion continued because I pushed it for so long, but that doesn't mean that you didn't start it. I also acknowledged that you were saying other stuff. My point was that the other stuff wasn't that strong. Kirsche, why are you ignoring pre-D7 stuff? I don't understand the logic behind doing that.

Boron, one of Manix's arguments for why I (and Kirsche) are scum, other than PoE, is that our roles are too weak for us to be telling the truth about them. The implication there is that I'm not just an Announcer, but an Announcer/X like Xinny was a Godmother/Bus Driver. If I'm mafia hiding half my role, why isn't Boron dead? I'm hesitant to vote Manix because I have no desire to end the phase more than 24 hours early. If Boron chooses Manix over Shinori, then I'll vote there, but until she does, I'll stick with my top read. As for the Strege thing, I thought your plan was to get Strege to rush his last guess by giving him wrong info, since I interpreted it as a Neighbourize, where we'd then have to take your word for what Boron's spellcards are. I wasn't trying to get Strege to not vote. >_> While a no lynch might doom town's chances of winning, it's not really what the mafia wants either, because killing someone decreases the amount of ML candidates they have. My vote abilities come from spellcards and wouldn't be part of my rolename anyways. Strege, didn't you also say that at least one of my claimed spellcards were confirmed as existing (the voteblock one)?

Strege, what do you think of a Shinori/Manix scumteam? You mentioned that you find me/Shinori unlikely and me/Manix more likely, but nothing directly about Shinori/Manix. If Manix's argument of "I have a weak role so I must be hiding parts of it" is to be believed, why didn't I as mafia kill Boron last night? Presumably if I'm not just an Announcer, her role is most dangerous to me. It makes more sense for Shinori/Manix to focus the Kill Cop over her, as their roles are strong enough that they're probably what they say they are (and Manix is Ascetic anyways). Kirsche- I don't see how me not wanting to quickhammer someone means I'm scumbuddies with them. I'm putting serious effort into trying to lynch which of Shinori/Manix I find worse, just in case Boron happens to be mafia, so you saying that I'm doing it just because I'm buddies with Manix is a misrep of what I've been saying almost all phase. It's like you've decided from before that I'm mafia, and are therefore choosing to believe that my preference to lynch Shinori means Manix and I are buddies, rather than even listening to the explanations I've been giving all phase.

Why so eager to end the phase, Kirsche? I don't really understand. >_> Where's the self-preservation in my posts? You also said none of that stuff about my vote being graspy when I made it, and honestly I can't remember it anymore, but I don't think I was voting you originally just for rolespec, but because I felt that you were misrepresenting Paperblade's posts. And I don't think I've ever made my intent unclear. If I have, how did I do so? Remember that Shinori didn't choose the target of the potion, Paperblade did. The test itself was Shinori's idea, but giving it to me instead of Scorri/NNR wasn't, so I don't think that's a point in his favour. Town's only real chance of victory is if we lynch correctly today and then the last mafia kills a third. I don't mind lynching Manix if nobody wants to go after Shinori, but I'll wait for Boron to say whom she finds worst right now.