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I think we have 36 hours and 36 minutes left.

You said it was a neighbourize when I asked earlier. >_> I'm not trying to prevent Strege from voting, but there is anti-town intent in making him leave early from the game, which I thought I saw there because I didn't understand your role earlier.

Except if Boron dies, Strege would then have to take your word about her spellcard, and since there's a decent chance you're the ITP, you can't really be trusted there. It's also beneficial for anti-town to have Strege poof, which can be done by feeding him false info and having him jump the gun on his last guess. I mean, I want Strege to use his vote too, but I don't think that this is a good plan. Also, Kirsche, what do you mean by "giving us scum"? I wasn't under the impression that Strege knew who the mafia were.

Strege, when can you make guesses? Are you allowed to make them at any point? Relevant because you poofing in the middle of a day phase could be bad.

Because arguing ITP!Kirsche is much easier than arguing scum!Boron (or ITP!Boron). Heck, half the players already think that Kirsche is the ITP. Basically, the chance of him being non-mafia is higher than your's, but so is the chance of him being non-town, and I think the latter is what the mafia will care about more than the former.

And Boron, I said why I expect you to die if you're town. Leaving you alive for WIFOM chance is not smart. If you do stay alive, then it's not like I'm going to vote for you right away, but it'll be closer to 50/50 between you and whoever else is left. If you die, and we lynch scum today, it'll be 1/1/1/1. If Strege poofs at that point, it's kingmaker, but if he's there, I'll have to convince him to lynch whomever of Shinori/Manix is left. I have no clue what's up with the harmful third, but I don't think there are any daykills left, because it would be potential LYLO if there were, instead of MYLO. So then it'd be 1/1/1, where Strege chooses which of me and Kirsche he wants to have win.

Wait what? You can neighbourize someone? I swear you never mentioned this earlier. ;/ I don't expect to get NKed because I'm one of the largest ML candidates left. Boron, if you die tonight, then the only variable in who might be scum is eliminated. Then I'll be 100% sure that whoever of Shinori/Manix is left is scum.

@Boron- The second sentence of that post you quoted, the one you didn't bold, goes on to say that if you don't die tonight, then I'll disregard the cop report and actually try to see whether you look scummier or townier than whoever else is left. We'll wait for what Prims tells Strege, but personally I don't think that Prims would let Strege have a Survivor-esque alternate wincon that lets him joint with town if they win, since he doesn't like Survivors, since they tend to just coast.

If Boron is town, or even ITP, she'll be dead tonight. The mafia leaving her alive for the chance of WIFOM isn't worth it. So I'm taking the possibility of her being scum more and more into account, but I feel that as long as we lynch correctly today, it'll either resolve itself by tomorrow, or we'll have to actually look at who's the scummiest between Boron and whoever else is left.

My opinion has intensified, yes, but it hasn't changed. I've gone from leaning in one direction (caring slightly as to which of you/Manix gets lynched) to leaning more in that direction (caring a lot which of you gets lynched), not leaning in one direction to leaning in another direction as you're suggesting. As long as the day kills weren't mafia-aligned, the mafia had no way of knowing that two extra people were going to die yesterday. If I'm interpreting the numbers correctly, it was only potential MYLO because of those kills. So mafia might not have known it was MYLO either, and even if they did, bussing one scum for a much easier victory the next day is a completely valid strategy.

No, I stated that Boron was PROBABLY TOWN, but that I was still going to lynch whomever was scummiest instead of not caring because the possibility still exists of her not being town. So don't tell me that I'm not taking that possibility into account. Even if she IS scum, one of me/you/Manix is still scum, so lynching one of us three is still the best bet for town today. Saying my opinion has changed is a complete misrep.

Kirsche, I don't understand why Manix/Shinori is "reasonable but unlikely". I see the logic behind the rest of the statements, but I don't see the logic there. The difference between that and Manix/me is that Manix voted Shinori. But Shinori never voted Manix, and if he really doesn't care which of me/Manix gets lynched (which is scummy in and of itself), why is he voting me over Manix? As for Manix not voting me atm, all it would take is Boron or Strege to vote me, and Manix could switch over and hammer easily. In some ways, as scum, not voting town is actually more beneficial, because other people are less wary of voting that person.

Oh yeah, just remembered. I don't get Manix's logic of "weak roles must be scum". We've established that small mafia = strong mafia roles, haven't we? What's strong about a Mafia Announcer? All it can do is prove its role, whoop-de-doo. I could be hiding a part of my role, I guess, but so could anybody else, and I would have to be hiding a lot more than anybody else, which would therefore give more places to get caught out in a lie.

Not really, at 2/2/1/1, a lynch of anybody not mafia + NK results in a win for scum. Why would I argue so vehemently for the lynch of someone claiming lynchproof capabilities if that would just result in LYLO tomorrow instead of victory?

This is the sort of thing that I find scummy with Shinori, because he's not taking all possibilities into account. Of all people, SHINORI should know that mafia Rolecops can bus their buddies for towncred, however unlikely it might be. I refuse to believe that Shinori, if town, wouldn't even take it into account, and actually try to make a decision as to which of me and Manix he'd rather lynch first. For reference to Strege and Kirsche, Shinori was a mafia Rolecop in Haphazard Mafia and bussed his scumbuddy to become Town Leader (it was OC).

It should be easy to see from context, but in the first paragraph, "you" refers to Kirsche, and in the second, it refers to Shinori.

Because it doesn't benefit you to quickhammer. If you're harmful third, you don't actually know whether Shinori is town or whether he's scum. If he's town, quickhammering him could result in the mafia winning, meaning you lose. Even if Boron confirms it as a lynchproof potion, I'm not going to unvote you. All it means is that one of my reasons for thinking you were scum (the lynchproof looking like a fake) were wrong. Scum lynchproofs still exist, and there are enough other reasons for me to find you scummier than Manix, and therefore a higher priority.

Basically, the "WHY CHANCE LYNCHPROOF" is dumb because we're going to have to chance it, either today or tomorrow, or just let you pass simply based on that, which I refuse to do both because it would result in my mislynch either today or tomorrow, and because it'll be really dumb. That's why I'm confident that your lynchproof is a fake. You're not using it in a way that a townie would, from not outing it several phases ago to using it to delay your lynch today.

Responding to valid points with "lol" really doesn't endear me to you, Shinori. And I already stated that I thought Manix was scum. But just in case Boron turns out to have bussed Xinny, I do need to pick one person out of you and him to push for today, and I picked you. I gave my reasons for it too, at the beginning of the phase. If Boron, Kirsche, and Strege would rather lynch Manix than lynch you, I'll go with that too. I'm pushing more for you because I don't believe your claim of a lynchproof potion at all, and if Boron/Strege/Kirsche choose Manix over you today just because of that, there's a good chance they'll pick me over you tomorrow for the exact same reason. So I'd rather lynch you today than push you to tomorrow.

Shinori, Strege voting me is different from Strege voting you. If Strege votes me, Manix can switch over and quickhammer. If Strege votes you, both me and Manix are already voting you, and you're not going to vote yourself. So one of Boron and Kirsche would have to quickhammer. So yeah, telling him to vote for me at this point is encouraging a quickhammer. I probably should have actually tried to suggest which one of the investigative roles I'd rather lynch, and I would have, but it was met with a pretty negative response rather quickly, so I didn't really bother. Kirsche, I don't understand what basis you're declaring me/Boron and Manix/Shinori as unlikely teams. If you discount that Boron gave us a scum, me and Boron have never really attacked each other much. I might have gone after her a little bit at the beginning of D5, but IIRC when Paperblade was attacking her, I was defending her for the most part. As for Manix/Shinori, Manix is voting Shinori today and that's it.

The other thing is that all these potions Shinori has make him more or less another JoaT type role, of which we've already had two. Plus he's a Courier too, since he can send messages with these potions at night. This doesn't seem like a town role to me, and because he's almost certainly not third either, FMPOV, it adds to why I want to lynch him over Manix.

He's got more potions he's not talking about, which I find pretty suspect. Now I realize what was irking me about Kirsche's logic. If you are keeping in mind the possibility of scum!Boron, why aren't you differentiating between me and Manix? Your logic for voting me is PoE and can be applied to Manix as well, but it looks like you chose me fairly arbitrarily, which is a bad idea as long as Boron isn't 100% confirmed as town.

The bigger reason I think Shinori is faking is because if he had this lynchproof potion, why didn't he claim it earlier? Why didn't he out his full capabilities? The reason lynchproof claims are supposed to be outed BEFORE mylo is so that they can be tested, and Shinori of all people, being town leader to my lynchproof fake in SFM, should know that. For that matter, why has Shinori STILL not outed his full capabilities? He's got another potion he's hiding too. I also don't see the point of that last post at all. If you're not willing to give it to someone and have them verify it, why even mention it, if you were going to reject it in the very next line? And although I don't think you have a lynchproof potion, even if you did, it wouldn't confirm you as town.

wtf Shinori why are you encouraging a quickhammer If Strege votes me at the very moment like you want him to do, Manix can hammer me at any point. Strege should say who he wants to lynch though.

Also, I'm not sure and can't be assed to check atm, but I'm pretty sure SB's card also turned off at MYLO/LYLO. Not like his card even makes a difference with 6p left.