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Shinori- fake lynchproof more plz. The manner in which you're claiming lynchproof- using it to get out of a lynch- looks highly like a fake. Kirsche- You're missing the point. Your argument for why Manix and I are bussing doesn't make sense because there hasn't been a situation in which I would vote him over someone else even though I've thought he was scum since last day phase. Us not voting for each other doesn't automatically make us scumbuddies. As for me and Manix agreeing with each other, I'll point you to what I said to Shinori- it's PoE logic. I don't agree with your reasons for finding Shinori likely to be the third, but since I'm not third, I don't really know what to say there? I guess we're just on opposite sides. If you're going to argue you're town, it's mostly confirmed FYPOV that I'm scum I guess. ie I should be arguing more towards convincing Boron and Strege that I'm not scum.

It takes 4 votes to be hammered, and you're already voting me. If Manix was scumbuddies with you, he's vote me and I'd still be at 3 votes. It would require Boron or Strege as well to vote me. And I'm not a guaranteed scum lynch from the POV of Boron, Kirsche, or Strege. And from Manix's POV, you're just as much confirmed scum as I am, so telling him to lynch me based just on that is dumb. If you want him to choose you over me in which of the two scum FHPOV he'd rather lynch first, you have to give reasons for why you're townier than me, which you're not.

What are your reasons for not finding me pro-town? You literally haven't given a single reason for it other than that Boron is more likely to be town. Except you think she might also be scum Rolecop, so ??? Why talk about how her targets have a lot of times been people who've claimed and/or died at convenient times if you believe she is indeed a Rolecop? If she was a scum Rolecop, she has no reason to hide behind excuses like that. She'd only need to do that if she was faking being a Rolecop in the first place. Your logic is bad, inconsistent, and scummy. As for me not voting Manix earlier, did you miss the part where I pointed out how there was a COP GUILTY last day phase? Obviously I wasn't going to vote him last phase, and me finding Shinori scummier ISN'T missing the point, because it's the main reason why I'm not voting him this phase. Besides, if me and Manix were bussing, why on earth would we start doing it the same day as our scumbuddy was getting lynched from a cop guilty? If Manix and I are saying the same stuff, it's because it's simple PoE logic that isn't based on alignment. ##Vote Shinori, because if he's not concerned about putting someone at L-2, I'm not really either. Fairly certain he's scum anyways, so.

More importantly, are you informed when your guess for a particular player's spellcards is correct or wrong?

Strege, you have to correctly match 15/19 players to their spellcards, right? How many guesses do you get at that?

sorry typo

My spellcards deactivate at MYLO/LYLO. ie they're already out of commission for the rest of the game. Kirsche wanting to lynch me for "to get them out of the way" and "for more information" is dumb. Neither are reasons for why I'm more likely to be scum than Shinori and Manix. I'm like 95% sure he's the other third at this point. I also dislike how Boron is basically calling everyone as scum at this point. Even the person whom he says is his town buddy, Boron, he's having reservations about. His manner of attacking Boron is weird too. Her role is more or less proven. Yet instead of arguing scum Rolecop or ITP Rolecop, he's arguing that she might be lying? It feels like since he doesn't know exactly who's going to get lynched/die this cycle, he's allowing himself room to argue whatever he can tomorrow to ensure survival. Shinori softing lynchproof from early on doesn't mean anything at all. I've crumbed fakes from D1 plenty of times before. And besides, scum lynchproofs exist (Golden Sun, sort of SFMM2). His role doesn't seem town, and Kirsche is scummy enough that I don't believe he's town either. But since he's not mafia, Kirsche has to be the third, leaving Shinori as mafia. Kirsche, why would I vote Manix? I've said, SEVERAL TIMES THIS PHASE, that I find Shinori worse than Manix, and therefore would prefer to lynch him before Manix, just in case Boron turns out to be mafia. It's unlikely, but it's a possibility that needs to be prepared for by not just willy-nilly lynching whomever. I would vote Shinori, but I don't want to put him at L-2. As for me not voting Manix earlier- ofc I didn't vote him yesterday; we had a cop guilty. And before that, I was thinking that his role was unlikely to be mafia (which, IIRC, I stated somewhere earlier on).

SHOULD HAVE GONE TO SLEEP BUT I NEVER DO Your role has way too much shit in it to sound town to me, and what Manix said is correct (we had no clue until just now that you had lynchproof capabilities of some sort), so how on earth does pushing you before you out that make us scum? You could be scum lynchproof as Manix says, but more likely I think you're just threatening lynchproof right now to get the town to lynch elsewhere. sleep for realz now

Anyways, I'm sleeping, but IMO everybody should rank the order in which they'd rather lynch me, Manix, and Shinori.

dat double post Manix, in the event Boron is bussing, which of me/Shinori would you rather lynch today?

Well, it's most likely 2/2/1/1. Strege is one of those 1s. Kirsche is either my fellow town member or the second third, from SSG Cop report. Boron being mafia is pretty unlikely, so she's also either town or third. So FMPOV this leaves Manix/Shinori as scumteam. From Manix's POV, it leaves me/Shinori as scumteam. And from Shinori's POV, it leaves me/Manix as scumteam. This basically means that we should lynch between me/Manix/Shinori today, as two of us are almost certainly mafia, and they are a larger threat today than the third(s) is/are. I don't reaaally care which of the two, but Shinori's actions have been slightly more offensive, so I'd rather lynch him first, just in case Boron turns out to be pulling a Shinori. My thoughts about Manix vs Shinori are basically this: They both coasted heavily through certain points of the game, but I feel as if Manix's D2 was actually good, whereas Shinori never really had a good day as much as a single moment of what I felt at the time was towntelling (the D3 reaction-test).

I think there's a good chance Manix is scum, but if you were going to build a rolespec case on him, why argue so vehemently against rolespec the last two days?

Boron, Rolecop report? I'm most wary of Shinori and Manix atm. I also don't trust Strege, as my announcement said, but I'm not sure if we should use a lynch on him or not.

It's funny that the postgame for this would come out the same day as my third win as ITP. Anyways, wrt the safeclaim thing, that's fairly true. I wasn't expecting there to be another Vengeful-type claim. The thing is, though, that an excess of town killing roles is normally more common than an excess of anything else, just because they have a larger consequence if used incorrectly than any other type of role.

Because she might want to talk to Strege more idk hammer imo

Well, I imagine that if Rapier had contacted somebody, they would have said something about it by now. Since they haven't, I can only assume that Rapier lost interest in the game, which is unfortunately not an uncommon occurrence with him. If he has been in touch with anyone, now would be a good time for that person to speak up. Ehhhh should we just hammer Xinny early so her and Strege can't make plans or whatever for him to joint with the mafia? I highly doubt Rapier is going to come and make Strege less "desperate". I know it would lower discussion time, but I think we'll be fine tomorrrow with however many people we have left (7?).

Also lolRapier IIRC he could neighbourize people while he was dead in addition to reviving at some point. He hasn't neighbourized anyone so I doubt he's paying enough attention to the game to revive himself either, sadly.

This sounds like a really dumb plan. You are aware that town would be more likely to take a potion that someone tells them is going to clear them than mafia are, right? This is similar to what you did with Proto; I don't understand what the motive is.

White noise isn't a meta point. In fact, I admitted that your meta weakens it, because I know you just make a lot of posts regardless of your alignment- that's why I said that 20% content is low even for you[/b]. I'm not going to go through old games to compare it to this one, but it's normally at least like 50% IIRC. It might just be because you're having a shit time irl, which is why I said something like "not to sound unsympathetic" in my post last night (or afternoon for you I guess). The difference between you and Shinori is that Shinori just didn't post that much when he didn't scumhunt in the middle. He just lurked, which he does these days as either alignment. You were posting spam and not scumhunting instead. And while other people's content might be thin in places, nobody just went like two entire day phases barely contributing despite posting so much. If you bring up someone like SSG or Cam, lol, because you should know that people who're regularly active like us are held to higher standards in that regard than people who barely post in the first place like them. I'm sure I have fencesat. Go through all my arguments when you have time, and point out the ones where I do it. I'll go through your's and we'll see who does it more. Strege, do you know of any killing spellcards that exist? Because if there aren't any, it means either that the person who killed NNR has a strong-willed kill, or Shinori is the killer. Inclined to think that it's either a killing card or a strong-willed kill, because Shinori killing someone after mass-hooking the thread would be pretty dumb of him.

tldr on that Manix wall; When he does produce content (most notably D2, and kind of D5/D6), it's for the most part pretty good. But he just has huge periods of posting while not really saying much of anything at all that I don't like.

Holy shit that was longer than I was expecting it to be. Anyways, I guess it being MYLO from the start makes 5/3/1/1 at the beginning of the day make more sense. We have unexplained daykills on D2, D3, and D6, so I don't think an even-day killer makes sense. If I had to guess, they might have an X amount of kills they can use in the game. Marth, IIRC when Paperblade and I were discussing what Rein could have been (since Inventor doesn't really specify much), I said that I thought it could be a JoaT, and he said that if that was the case, town had a lot of JoaTs. So it's easily possible that both him and Shadoweh were jacks, just with him being more unorthodox.

I was originally going to point out all of Manix's irrelevant posts, and then I realized it would actually be easier to point out the relevant ones. 13 isn't really scumhunting but pretty relevant so fair enough. 102/104 are about Blitz trap. 125 is more on Blitz but says he'd have to reread to form a proper case on Blitz. This is kind of weird because there were only 125 posts, a good chunk of which would be RVS. 209 has some stuff on Baldrick and Strege but is mostly sheepy wrt his Baldrick vote. 243 and 298 are kind of hunting I guess, but one line. 363 is really more of a defence than scumhunting, but okay. That wraps up D1, which consists pretty much only of Baldrick and Strege, and was pretty sheepy on the Baldrick front. 417 is good, 426 is kind of hunting. 429/430 were okay, as were 432/435 (he went on a spree of actually getting around to those ISOs on D2). 526 and 529 are okay, as are 534/535/537/540. Five or six more on Blitz around there. 759 is a defence/prod against Kay, which was fair enough because his D2 wasn't that fluffy. 804 lists some reads but isn't really hunting; all stuff from D2. 859/870 starts something against Objection, but it's a really semantic argument that I don't like, based on him possibly making a scumslip due to only "supposing" that Shinori is the potion guy. In the end he states it could just be either alignment too. 887/891 push against Shinori a bit right after he suddenly gives me the potion (but he takes it back later anyways). So that was D3, which was... pretty much nothing. A kind of graspy Objection argument and a small Shinori push that he drops anyways. 1120 has some small stuff about Elie but the rest is pretty thin (argues against rolespec and then asks for more opinions from SSG). In 1287, he FINISHES READING ISOS- and then says he doesn't really think any of them are scum. 1387 is not really scumhunting as much as reasons for consolidation. So his D4 really has nothing at all. Tbf I cut out stuff where he was claiming his role (which he did very slowly and arduously) and talking about stuff there, but the majority of his posts were still useless stuff like "guys i can't do votals" or "let me get to that ISO". He votes Kirsche in 1888 but doesn't really elaborate much. He does that in 1933/1935. 1968 attacks me a bit for something sort of dumb, though I guess I'm biased so w/e. 1974 is just sort of daring anyone to complain about his shitty gutread on me. 1979 isn't scumhunting as much as pulling up what he's said about me over the game. He has another 4-5 posts of just saying I shouldn't have pried into his role. That's his D5, which is a few posts on Kirsche and then a few on me. Better than D3/D4 but still not much there. 2037 is a bit against Shinori, and then a few more posts after that just being reactionary to Shinori's "umadbro". 2074/2077/2079 are okay on Kirsche, and 2098 gets back to Shinori. His response to my mini-case is sort of weird, and I don't really like how he chooses to attack the timing rather than the content of what I say. I know I hadn't really cited any posts at that point but ehhh. Back to Shinori in 2116. His D6 is okay so far I guess, as far as content : # of posts goes. So let's add that up- it totals to around 50 posts. You can give him a few more here and there of me mislabeling stuff, but that still comes out to just a bit more than a 20% ratio of useful posts, which is stupidly low, even for Manix. And all that is just talking about how much white noise he has. Sometime later I'll get to how many times he fence-sits on his own arguments.

Attacking someone out of the blue when you've never said anything about them to that point is scummy only if you're sheeping other people, which I'm not, since nobody else is seriously attacking you atm.

I'm not really a fan of how often Manix says "I'M TIRED I MIGHT BE WRONG" after making posts. I'm aware it sounds kind of unsympathetic, but it feels like him distancing himself from his own arguments, which I know Scumnix likes doing. It also gives him a way to post random spec as him just "rambling". Also I was giving him a pass earlier because I thought his role was too strong for scum, but he coasted hard on D1, D3, and D4. He said a lot of admittedly good stuff on D2, which is why I thought that Kay saying at that time that his posts were fluffy was dumb, but I feel like they kind of are now. He always posts stuff in spammy mini-sprees, but it feels that a lot of his mini-sprees are not really scumhunting, and way too many of his posts are just about him saying he has to reread somebody, that he's in the process of doing so, or just answering questions or commenting on stuff in ways that's just white noise. I'll cite posts in the morning probably.

Well, I know I said that I didn't want to lynch Shinori fairly recently, but the obnoxiousness of his posts saying he wasn't going to get lynched gave me a bad feeling, so I reread parts of his ISO, and I realized a few things. Firstly, in a way, Shinori's potion kill could technically count as an unblockable kill. I mean, you can choose not to drink the potion, but if you do, there's nothing that acts at day that can prevent your death. It's a bit of a twist, but I could see Prims doing something like that. Secondly, I reread some of the Shinori/Scorri interactions and what Scorri said about him is true. Despite sending all these people messages about her on N1 and N2, he never said much of anything about her in thread. Scorri attacked him for that, but as someone pointed out (can't remember who, and too lazy to look for it at 3:30 am), she backed off fairly quickly after the reaction test. So did a bunch of people who were pressuring him at the time, actually, which sort of gives it a scum motive that I wasn't really seeing earlier. And as Manix pointed out, it doesn't really clear someone ~that much. It would probably alleviate pressure from them for a while, but it's not a solid enough clear to really matter when it comes down to MYLO/LYLO, in comparison to roleclears. So on second thought, while I don't think the reaction test makes him scummy, I'm not labeling it as something that makes him town either, since there actually is scum motive there. I also said earlier that Scumnori would want to use it on a scumbuddy to give them both towncred, but fsr I forgot at that point that he didn't pick the target in the first place.