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Well, for one thing, Fera subbed out and got replaced by Shadoweh, who's in the process of reading the thread.

Cam, SB, and Boron all have similar avatars and it's confusing as heck. ;/ I just didn't feel like Strege case was that good. I'm not 100% okay with him but I feel like my case was grasping at stuff to make it fit. And I'd said stuff about Cam before that point so I don't really think it's that out of nowhere. His vote was weak and sheepy, and his unvote was sort of weird too. He also keeps talking about Objection for reasons I'm not entirely sure and it feels like an attempt to fluff up his posts. I might be biased about his bit about me but I think it's also in the same vein of paranoid speculation that I didn't like from Boron.

I don't like Cam's unvote of Boron at all. He sheeped on like right after Paperblade and then as soon as he started getting flak for it he just jumped off. Actually I'm going to ##Unvote, ##Vote: Cam because I feel like parts of my case against Strege are graspy. Boron, you need to chill a bit though. Nobody is trying purposely to push your buttons (in here, anyways).

To clarify, it's my personal preference to get something out of the person I'm voting before I drop the vote, no matter how much worse I'm finding someone else, and Paperblade didn't really defend against your vote at all, so the choice to switch to someone else is weird.

Strege, did your opinions on Paperblade fade or do you just find Cam worse atm? I don't see a real reason for the switch in votes.

man I hate stupid people Okay, yeah, I misread that sentence. But it still felt like you were pushing forward at least the Objection wagon despite not finding him scummy, which might be a semantic difference from what you say you meant, but an important one. Going through more of your posts, if you didn't really think that what I'd done was scummy, or that I should have hidden it, why did you spend so long on D1 questioning me about my motives?

Okay, I actually missed you defending Baldrick, so I'll take that first paragraph back. But with Objection, yes, getting out an opinion about the major wagons is good. But if you only find them very slightly scummy, why say you'd prefer their lynch? I know you say that you might have jumped the gun there, but it feels like you were pushing his lynch forward even though you were saying he wasn't that scummy. As for the second part of my last sentence, I don't see how it's inaccurate. You yourself say in your immediately preceding sentence that your top read at the time was Proto and you were pushing that. And then you were pushing Xinny later. Neither of those two were main wagons. How were you not pushing someone separate? You were pushing forward the Objection wagon while holding Proto and then Xinny as your "real" suspicions. And Xinny's point about lowering your scumread on Marth because of the way he claimed and then going after Paper for doing the same is a good one as well. What makes his logic weak when you cited the same?

This is Shinori's only post of the phase. >_> I feel like he's coasting off the D3 reaction test and I hate it when my townreads start coasting. IIRC SSG just graduated, Strege is busy, and Xinny is sick right now I think.

Okay, well, the point is, we've got tools to help us secure a lynch. But we're kind of flailing about right now as to who to lynch, which is probably why there aren't any real wagons atm. So we need reads, not votes.

@Boron- Fair enough, you were asked to expand on it. Shadoweh, we've still got like 30ish hours I think; we don't need a vote right now for the sole sake of a lynch. Me (and SB I think) also have ghostvote spellcards that'll help reach a hammer if we're falling short. We need reads from whatever you've gathered so far.

Well I don't think you're mafia atm but I did kind of agree with parts of what Elie was saying. It felt like you were egging on paranoia, but not really doing anything about it. Okay, it's not your townreads that matter as much as the general consensus townreads. But then why aren't you looking at those, if you feel like one or more of them might be mafia?

The scummy thing about being on a wagon is when you sheep on. If you're the first vote, then at the time of your vote, it's not a wagon.

Also, Marth- if the later votes on him were due to Blitz's bullshit, how are they meek excuses? If you admit that Blitz had some bullshit posts then why are the votes weak? And if you found him scummy for D1 play, how is it weak for others to do the same later? Sheepy, yes, but that's not the same as weak.

Oh, both Boron's post and Paperblade's response to it gave me the impression it was, so I was too lazy to actually check your first Marth vote. So nvm I guess Boron's comment there was sort of a misrep. Still not really enough.

Okay well, I went through Boron again and I don't agree with Paperblade. Yeah she was on the main wagons but I don't really see anything scummy that she said. I disagree with what you said about her assessment of Kirsche's early Marth vote. Yeah, early votes are often kind of graspy, but as long as they're serious, they shouldn't be based on just claiming Ninja. I don't really like how Cam came in with Boron being missable right after Paperblade had started his case there. Also apparently talking about 2 people is a listpost? Out of Paperblade's reread post, the point that I agreed with the most was his Strege point about Strege never being on any of the wagons, so I followed it up. Strege sort of semi-agreed with Baldrick on D1 when he was pushing me, in that he could also "see scum motive" in outing the info that I did, but ultimately took it back. However, he actually said very little about Baldrick himself on D1, despite him being the largest wagon. All he said was that his reads were lacking, which wasn't a great observation to make seeing as Baldrick announced himself that he had no scumreads. Anything else he said about Baldrick was in relation to other people (for example talking about Paperblade's Baldrick suspicion). In earlyish D2, he mentions Blitz in 402 and said that he was a null read due to just not really being there enough. Then the next time he mentions Blitz is all the way in 618, after the wagon is pretty much solidified, and only then does he actually point out anything scummy that Blitz has done. He actually says that Blitz is really really scummy in this post, so the complete avoidance of Blitz up to that point is really really weird. On D3, in 783, he says that he's nullreading Objection and that he finds Marth worse, but he only finds Marth himself mildly scummy. His Objection thing is sort of weird because he had a point about Objection in D1 about how he was echoing people's opinions a lot, so this is the second thing that he's found scummy about Objection, and generally even if the suspicions are small, if they last over 3 day phases, they're not just a nullish read. In 809 he says that he finds Marth more townie because of the claim, and would therefore prefer Objection to him. However, he's made no attempt to push Objection since 783, so presumably he's still got only a very tiny scumread there, so why would he prefer Objection at all? tl dr; it feels like Strege has been cheerleading wagons along while most of the time pushing someone completely separate. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Strege

@Manix- There was a reason I asked but whatever. @Paperblade- I answered BT's 159 in 160, assuming the question you're talking about is why I agreed with Shinori about NNR. As for 380, yeah, I did get Kay mislynched for defending someone without giving any reasoning in CYOC, but that doesn't mean it wasn't scummy, especially as she was Cop and should have tried harder to save a clear. The rest of it about Marth still holds in any case. And to be perfectly honest, I talked about why Rein died in 1086 specifically because I knew it would bug you. I'm an ass like that. IDK I'll read Boron's ISO again, but to catch your point about her blending in I'd need to reread the whole thread to catch when she makes her votes in relation to others. The impressions I got were that while she was on the main wagons quite a lot, it didn't really feel that much like sheeping to me. I think that in all the cases she had something of her own to add, and she was also a fairly early vote on two of them, IIRC.

Manix, can you be targeted during the day? Or does your asceticism carry over?

Yeah, they could still use spellcards. Xinny used one yesterday on me, remember?

Yeah, sorry, Bluedoom is Marth. It's scummy because it's pushing two lynches based on rolespec (and really bad rolespec at that). He backed off when he was corrected, yeah, but he pretty much had to at that point, so I don't see it as much in his favour. Admittedly Paper has a point about the manner in which Marth claimed and all that, but I'm not sure if it outweighs the rest of his stuff, and nobody's really offered a convincing response to the attacks about his play, just something alternate.

I doubt I'd do much with Nino so idrc. You can change to Karel if you WANT, but I don't mind getting saddled with him.

And by "gets" Karel, you mean "never recruits" Karel, since I already have Harken. Chapter the Fifteenth: 7/38 Marcus fought the guys up top before going down south to kill the Thief once he took the Silver Axe. Bartre killed some guys in the south and then went back up to protect throne from FIGHTER. Meanwhile Hector took names and lives and OHKOd Sealen. If he hadn't, he'd have doubled anyways, what a boss. But I guess the B in Bartre stands for BUTTLETTUCE because he still hasn't procced SPD rage.

No, he thought SB and Objection were in a 1v1 because Objection said that he didn't redirect SB. He thought that only one redirecting role could be there, because more would screw up setup balance, and therefore thought that either SB must have been lying about getting redirected, or that Objection must have been lying about not targeting SB. Read 802. He backed off after you said that you redirected SB because it was proof that multiple redirectors did actually exist.

I find Marth scummy because after attacking Blitz for a while, he started a chainsaw defence of him by calling all the later votes on it weak and lazy. Despite feeling that way though, he never made an attempt to actually look at a single one of the votes against Blitz. The only specific vote he spoke out against was Xinny's, and that wasn't because of the content of her vote, but its timing. Then on D3, he made no attempt to tie his Objection vote back to Blitz interactions. Overall, his Blitz interactions feel like defending for towncred. Then yesterday, he tried to get Objection and SB into a 1v1 because he didn't think multiple redirecting roles could exist, which is a really weak reason for a 1v1. There's more stuff but effort. Strege, what happened to your Xinny read from yesterday? You seemed pretty adamant about it. IIRC, I responded to a part of it and Xinny also defended herself. What are your opinions about her now? Also looking forward to opinions from Elie, Cam, and Shadoweh once they're done with their reads (primarily the first two though).

Well, no, we don't know for sure that he swapped Objection with BT, but presumably if he were scum he wouldn't just give Objection, a member of the town, a card that can silence someone for the day.

Chapter the Eleventh: 6/6 Standard Chapter the Twelfth: 5/11 I blame Marcus for one extra turn; he couldn't ORKO Zagan Chapter the Thirteenth: 7/18 Bartre got his first level. It was HP/Luk. Hector's SPD is progressing nicely and he's already tied in STR with Marcus. Gaiden the Thirteenth: 7/25 Saved the village and Bartre procced STR twice, but still no SPD... Hector seems to be taking them all. Chapter the Fourteenth: 6/31 Marcus couldnt double Erik, so he had to have the Silver Lance equipped for TWO TURNS so it broke rage