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Necktie is Stahlypin. Well, I'll let Paperblade answer the rest of your argument against him. However, hypocrisy can be scummy, because if you're town and you're doing X, then that proves that X can be done from a town perspective. So why go after someone for also doing X?

Prims confirmed the info as a role message, but not a Courier message. Since it's not part of my role to receive messages, I can only guess it's someone else's role. I don't think Baldrick would take refuge in audacity and just say he had no scumreads, but then I didn't think SB would take refuge in audacity either last game, and that didn't work out. Still, I think he would have made more of an attempt to fake something or the other. Ehh kind of waffling on Baldrick.

Blitz's vote feels really easy to me. His ZM vote is more justified than Objection's Rein vote in that ZM has actually been here, but this is ZM's first game on SF, and jumping into a 24p game isn't exactly easy. I question that Blitz can't find anything better than that. Looking through some of the lurkers, NNR and necktie ping me due to promising content and not delivering. I know necktie mentioned a few times over IRC that he was feeling in over his head, but even like gutreads are better than nothing necktie. NNR said he was busy/tired so I don't blame him a lot, but still. Fera's vote on SB seems kind of weird because SB's vote came in RVS, so the reasoning for it was obviously pretty fabricated. What makes it more suspicious IMO is that in the same post, he points out things he found wrong with both Blitz and Paperblade, so voting SB for such a weak reason over that other stuff doesn't make much sense to me. While Blitz did completely miss what Scorri was trying to say, I'm not reeeeeally a fan of how she posted just to defend herself from that, and didn't add any reads of her own. I guess it's easier to do that than actually scumhunt when you're behind, but it leaves a sort of bad taste in my mouth.

Strege, just because Paperblade is asking questions of Baldrick as part of his suspicion, it doesn't make him scummy. Asking questions is scummy when they're blank questions that don't really contribute to scumhunting, whereas Paperblade's questions, from what I can see, are trying to poke holes in Baldrick's logic in voting me, which was the same thing that you were apparently doing with me, so ??? Objection, while being inactive doesn't help town, rarely does voting an inactive help town either. If you suspect that the inactive is reading the thread but simply not posting, your vote will maybe prod them to post, but if the inactive simply hasn't had the time to come and read the thread, you voting for them won't really do anything, because they won't see your vote until they are able to come to the thread, in which case they'll post regardless of whether you voted for them. I know Xinny was really busy yesterday, and she doesn't normally lurk if she can help it, so I presume she'll post as soon as she can. As for Rein, you haven't played here enough to know this, but he's inactive in almost every game, so I personally doubt that a vote for him will achieve much either. Kinda giving you a pass for inactive vote due to it being your first game, but I think you should try to focus on people who're here, even though it would be a cool repeat of Touhou OC Mafia if all the inactives were scum and town lost through through infighting.

If the mafia want to kill someone who reveals info like "there is a GF", good for them. Considering everybody has a role, that's not an incredibly strong one. Also, if this is the case, and I were mafia, and one of my buddies was Watching me or something, and we'd learnt who this information-giver was, why would I then out the info? If we were then planning on killing this person, that would just tie me rather unnecessarily to the kill after the flip. I guess I could be just making the info up to spread distrust of Cop clears, but that can't simultaneously be the case with the info-giver also existing. You say you're looking for flaws in my arguments, but I don't see any place where you look for scum intent, possibly because I find the idea of finding me scummy based on the info I received ludicrous. Answer the question without sidestepping it- if you had received the info, would you or would you not have revealed it? It's an extremely relevant yes or no question, not a maybe one. I also never said that you were suspicious for having a low amount of activity, I said that you were suspicious for having little content. Your reads that you're giving are also pretty hypocritical. You're pushing both Paper and Proto for the same reason, that neither have scumreads- but neither do you, other than them. Or at least, not explicit ones. The bulk of your last two posts has been spent "questioning" my logic, but at no point were you voting me, or did you say that you actually thought I was scummy. Which is another problem, you keep sidestepping and being non-committal. Additionally, I don't even understand the reasoning behind your Paperblade vote. If he's voting Baldrick and pushing him, presumably he finds his actions at least slightly suspicious.

Kay, you of all people should know that

rage i lost my post again I outed the info because it was info. It's not the most useful, yeah, but that doesn't mean I was going to hide it. Any info we know about the setup is good. This might be taking it to an extreme, but you can see how much simpler C9++ became as the game progressed and town got more info about the roles. And I'd say whether or not you think I should have hidden it is very relevant, seeing as you're asking me why I chose to reveal it. I want to know your motivations behind asking me questions like these. A lucky mafia Rolecop could also have discovered who our insertstrongpowerrolehere is; that sort of discussion isn't useful. Also, wrt the Rapier thing, I quoted that sentence because it's very contradictory. In the first segment you say you don't see how Rapier is most likely town, and in the second, you say it's doubtful he's mafia. NNR = NekoRex (he was originally NekoNekoRex). ##Unvote, ##Vote: Strege I don't really see anything from him other than rolespec. And when I asked him questions about why he was doing it, he brushed it off. His play has just been pushing me about outing the info, without actually revealing the motives behind doing so, as in whether or not he thinks my actions have been scummy. The most contributive thing he's done is tell Paperblade to step up his content:activity ratio, and say that Objection is a little scummy for echoing. But it's a blanket statement that doesn't give any examples or anything of the sort.

Yeah, actually, I was going to say that- Baldrick, why do you believe so strongly that the information must be wrong?

OK, I got permission from Prims to say this: the info I got was a role message, not a Courier message. ie it's pretty much modconfirmed to me that the info is correct.

Okay, I'm going to repeat this. I can't quote the exact wording of either the message itself or what Prims said in my PM as it was given, but it didn't look like a message from a player. It looked like a message from the mod. Except it's not my role to get info from the mod, which makes me think that it is someone's role to give someone else info about the game in some way. I don't think that we can assume anything about the alignment of the person responsible behind me receiving the info. Also, since this game's setup is probably similar to the Anonymafia and Trainwreck setups, I really really don't think that we should make alignment inferences based on the setup. As the OP in the signups states, his games have involved stuff like a mafia having a Jailer when town had no killing roles. Finally, Baldrick, would you have preferred that I just keep the info to myself? Yes, maybe it makes us distrust all of the Cop's scans. That's something we should have done anyways though, because GF is still a pretty common role, so blindly Following The Cop isn't something you do in any game, much less a Prims game.

It's mostly just theorytalk tbh; I'm not saying you're scummy for continuing to speak about it. In fact, your stubbornness about it actually made me sort of see BT's point about you being rambling town, because I don't think that scum would have kept replying back to my feelings about a town Ninja. also Manix you're taking too long ##Vote: Manix While I don't disagree with the reasons behind the Baldrick wagon, what I don't understand is why people are voting only Baldrick for it. Objection voted me for pretty much the same reason as Baldrick, and Strege also seemed to agree with the reasons, even if he didn't put down a vote.

Just because there's a possible benefit to a Town Ninja hiding themselves, it doesn't mean that the risks associated with it don't outweigh those benefits. Possibly fooling a scum Tracker if they maybe target Marth doesn't make up for possibly resulting in a mislynch at a critical phase of the game.

BT, why do you think Kevin voting Bluedoom/Marth for being a Ninja and then waffling on it the next post is more likely to be town than scum? It's just as likely to be scum trying to push something while distancing themselves from weak rolespec reasons as it is town rambling. Kevin- Millers claiming tell people there's a Cop, so shrug. Besides, as SB said, false positives exist and we know Prims doesn't have an issue with them (though I do, grumble grumble).

People tend to OMGUS as a joke in RVS all the time, so I don't really see what the problem with that would be. The fact that he chooses to specify that it would be OMGUS if he voted for necktie seems pretty self-conscious to me.

What I don't understand is why it's scummy for Marth to claim the Ninja modifier in the first place. A town ninja modifier is basically like a town Miller in that acts to inhibit the power of another role. Let's say it came down to massclaim, and the Tracker said that Marth hadn't visited anyone at all, and Marth chose to out that he was a ninja at that point. Wouldn't you think it was scummy for Marth to suddenly claim at that point? It would be like somebody claiming Miller right after a Cop said that they scanned scum.

Strege, what is it that you disagree with? Do you think, like Baldrick is implying, that I'm making something up? Or do you think that I'm telling the truth that I got this info somehow, but that I should have just kept it to myself? Your post asks a lot of questions but doesn't give many opinions. Also, "I don't see how it clears Rapier as town, but I doubt he's mafia." What?

@Strege- Not quite. The mafia doesn't need to mislynch everybody. What they need to do is make sure at least one of their party doesn't get lynched. If I were mafia, I wouldn't mind a couple town clears if it also meant a mafia clear. Also, the existence of three different Announcers was outed. The mafia knowing a role exists doesn't do much good with them being able to actually kill that role. I like what Shinori said about NNR and I'd sheep it but I want Objection to respond first.

Actually, ##Vote: Objection. First you vote me for having information, and then you say that you doubt it's part of my role to get information like this. Unless I'm misunderstanding something, that sounds pretty contradictory to me. Also, while the info isn't part of my role, there does exist a role called Question Asker that can ask the mod a question, usually a yes or no one, and get an answer back.

The information I received isn't part of my role. Additionally, rather than a message from someone saying "hey dude at least one of the mafia scan according to a fake town role PM", it was more like a message from the mod. Except it isn't my role to get info from the mod, so I'm speculating here that it's someone else's role to make another person get info? idk but the votes on me are dumb. If I really were scum with a GF buddy or was GF myself, why would I make up this fake info in the first place? All it does is mean that if the GF gets inspected, they're not as trusted as they normally would be upon getting cleared.

Serious answer: as far as I know, the only person in this game who's ever come close to being a policy lynch is Shinori for throwing tantrums once or twice to try and prevent his lynch. And even then, it was a few people putting down policy votes. I don't think the majority went for it. So no, nobody whom we policy lynch.

Yeah, we greet new people who've played on other forums before by lynching them the first day, or however long it takes to get them all. We have to let them know that when you play on SF, you play by our rules.

nope, Rapier couldn't be targeted on N0 either. I'm guessing it's part of his role somehow. Nothing says that he isn't able to post today, so hopefully Rapier will clear stuff up for us.

Blitz, why do you think Rapier was kidnapped when he was untargetable even at the beginning of N0, before any possible scumbuddies could have targeted him?

I tihnk the person who's supposed to be voting for Objection is Strege.

lol y so scared Strege?