BBM

Also I just don't feel that town has two Hated and two Insomniacs, and it makes more sense for the person who's both Hated and Insomniac to be scum. But then that could just be a trap put there deliberately to punish rolespec, so ughhhhh.

Fuck it I'm going to keep my vote where it is. With 45 minutes left, I don't see why town!Elie wouldn't claim his full role right away. Maybe he thought Insomniac would be enough to keep him alive, idk. Doesn't feel right to me though.

Not sure if Elie is telling the truth or trying to draw a CC right now. But SF has lynched their Doc enough recently that I don't even know ughhhhhhh.

Two insomniacs what. I uh, don't really think that town would have two Insomniacs. I don't doubt that both Shin and Elie are in fact Insomniacs, because it'd be a pretty dumb claim otherwise, but I can't see them both being town, quite frankly.

Uhh Shinori isn't actually voting Elie, so only three votes for him, and two people not voting anybody.

Votals: Shin (1): Fera eclipse (2): Elieson, scorri Rapier (2): Serious Bananas, Shin Xinnidy/scorri (2): eclipse, Marth Elieson (4): BBM, Balcerzak, Manix, Shinori Not voting (1): Rapier We've got a bit less than an hour left. I see Elieson in the thread, and IIRC he said he had another part to his role than just Hated. Should probably claim.

If we're going to treat voting modifiers as a towntell, then that would be giving the town five clears right there, what with three people with modifiers and masons.

Okay, well, I saw Elie in the thread just a few minutes back, so I know he's here somewhere. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Elieson. Quite honestly seems to be the best option to me right now out of the people anyone else also finds scummy, though I know nobody else is voting for him. If I have to switch to one of Scorri or Eclipse to secure a lynch, I guess I'll vote Eclipse, because at least I felt there was a valid case against her at one point. I don't see anything with Scorri at all.

Well, I agree that Shinori hasn't had a lot of content, but after I thought about it for a little bit, I decided that Scumnori would probably be more aware of votes on him, and wouldn't have been as lazy as he was being at the beginning. I do dislike that a lot of his early phase stuff was mostly reaction tests (won't get into talking about those again). He was the first person to vote for Eclipse, and maybe it was because his vote was really more of a prod than an actual scumread, but he never really talked about Eclipse afterwards. After that he hasn't said much at all, but IIRC he said he was sick. So I guess I don't really know about Shinori. He said was rereading though, so I want him to come in here with thoughts. Also want to hear what other people think about him. As for Manix, I don't know if it's any specific posts or just them as a whole. I guess I'll go over his posts in more detail during the night phase. Wish Fera was more active. ;/

I'm trying to get a sense of who people want to lynch today. We're not lynching Rapier, obviously, and Insomniac is pretty provable, if not really an indication of Shin's alignment. I don't really have a desire to lynch Eclipse, and I don't get the Scorri case at all, to be honest. That leaves me with Manix and Elieson, I guess, though nobody other than me is voting for either of them.

Bal, your vote is still on Shin. Do you still want to lynch him today?

Blah, I still have no particular desire to vote for Eclipse or Scorri. Out of the votes on the Eclipse wagon, I find Elie's the worst. It was pretty much solely for rolefishing and because her test was bad, initially. In his first post against her, he says several times that the rolefishing was specifically directed towards him and not me, and then in his most recent post against her, he says that she was trying to pry information from me. There was a basis for the Eclipse wagon, but if I had voted for her at that time, it wouldn't have been for rolefishing, and most of Elie's case comes down to that. He also makes most of his points against her in that initial post by quoting other people's posts and just agreeing with those. And even if her test wasn't a great idea, it being so doesn't make her scummy. His more recent post against her is just more about rolefishing and about how she made a mistake with Scorri's Sunday activity.

I'm not misrepping anything. However, it doesn't look like anybody else actually wants to lynch Manix, so I'm going to reread the thread in a bit to see if there's something I can actually back.

Don't start calling me names, please. I've said nothing about you being an idiot or a fool to this point. My job isn't to censor my thought process. If I have feelings, I'm going to state them regardless of their strength or their backing, because sometimes I have a gut that I can't explain properly or see a reason for. And just because I don't fully commit to everything doesn't mean I commit to nothing. So saying people can't get reads on me is wrong, especially as your read against me is for not committing in the first place. You were nowhere close to having to claim, why mention that you would in the first place?

And considering nobody else is voting you other than me, why would you even claim now? Don't use that as a threat to make me back off.

I didn't commit to it until you called me out on it because it wasn't worth committing to until you started talking about it.

Yeah, the justification you gave was "I did it so that I would get reactions". My post was about how that sort of justification is shit. And your attitude about scumreads is, IMO, totally off. Not every single post or read has to be a fullblown case. I thought something was off, so I mentioned it. I didn't want to "commit" to a case on you there because you weren't an actual scumread then. It was a feeling. Your reaction to it and your ensuing case against me made me actually think you were scummy enough to deserve me going through your posts and making more of a case. Scorri thing was like one point and you admitting you made a mistake there doesn't make you town. And yeah, you can't have new or original content every single time. Like I said in my first post where I mentioned something off about you, it's not the content of your posts as much as their timing. Every time you say or do something, it's in reaction to someone else pointing something out and then you going with it. The only thing that doesn't fall into this category is your case against me, which doesn't even have good backing.

Rereading some of Manix's earlier content. I didn't really realize it the first time around, but he did that thing that I hate where someone does something scummy and then says later that they did it on purpose as a reaction test (in this case, voteparking on me for no given reason). Shit like that is unlikely to get a good reaction in the first place, because both town and scum are going to jump on something like that, just for different reasons, possibly. And then doing stuff like that allows scum to take back bad play as just "reaction test". Additionally, as Scorri pointed out, his initial post about her was partially a misrep because he took her saying "I have mostly neutral reads" completely out of context and ignored the fact that she had indeed given some other small reads in that very same post.

##Unvote, ##Vote: Manix I dislike how he seems to be second in everything he does. He didn't start pushing on people in the Eclipse wagon or say anything bad about it until after Eclipse defended herself well, and then was suddenly saying there was scum there. Now he's voting me for being not 100% sure of things. Yes, I think that regardless of Elie's alignment, he is likely to be Hated. That doesn't mean I'm going to be 100% okay with a test where Elie lying means I get lynched. And then he said me that feeling that he was following people was an attempt to undermine my credibility? Like what? Not every single thing I say about someone is going to be a fullblown case. People can have small feelings or vibes- that's not scummy.

;/ Are you being serious here?

I'm not trying to undermine your credibility. I'm saying I got a vibe from your posts that I didn't like. Being wary of somebody, whether it's you or Elieson, doesn't count as undermining their credibility, and if it does, it's not undermining their credibility in a harmful way. Undermining credibility is bad when you're using non-game reasons to do so. Saying I'm suspicious of you is a comment that I should be allowed to make in a game of mafia. This is honestly a terrible argument.

You're voting me for what? Saying I had a weird feeling about some of your posts and somehow undermining someone's credibility? Manix, please tell me how exactly I'm undermining anybody's credibility if you want me to take that vote seriously, because it's pretty terrible as of now. I don't really think Eclipse or Scorri are scum at the moment, and Shin's claim feels realistic and the Insomniac part at least is provable, so ##Unvote, ##Vote: Rapier

Because it was a thought I had and I didn't see a reason to hide it from everyone else. Why should I hide my thought process if sharing it doesn't give away info to the mafia or anything? And yeah, you might have been the first person to actually push someone specific on the Eclipse wagon, but you didn't actually start doing so until right after she came in and said the wagon was bad. Before that, you weren't exactly supporting it, but you were by no means looking for scum on it either.

First off, I'm voting Shin, not Scorri. I can't really find a problem with what Manix says, but his posts seem to be following someone else a lot of the time. Not really sure how to explain it. I also still want Shin to explain this post: He keeps trying to pass off the vote on me as RVS/joke when he says in the post where he voted me that he missed RVS, and when he also gave a legitimate reason for a vote. And I don't see what he's talking about here with the votehop either.

Well, I didn't think her first defence really went to the heart of what was the problem with her posts (or at least what I thought was the problem with her posts). She argued against the rolefishing point that I never really agreed with in the first place, but didn't really rectify the part where she had no reads. She just said that the wagon was bad and that we couldn't expect her content to be any better with the activity at that time being what it was. However, since you, me, and Shinori were all trying further, it sort of irked me that she wasn't really. So I didn't really think she was defending herself or fixing the problem. But in her second defence she actually pointed out more about what was wrong with the cases against her (defended herself) and gave reads (fixed the problem). Not sure if that makes sense, I'm kind of tired and up far later than I should be.