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Please explain where Kay has been playing decently.

Okay my campus iternet is being really badight now, so just ##Unvote, ##Vote: SB and I didn't like Cam's reaction to Elie's claim. I'll explain both these things more when I can typ properly without super lag.

Why would a PGO prevent a mass roleblock? It's not like the mass hooker visits every single person they target. Anyways, uh, due to unforeseen circumstances I might not be here for phase end (I think I might be able to come for the very end) so throwing out the people I would be okay with switching my vote to to ensure a lynch(since the Iris lynch clearly isn't going to take off): Elieson, SB, Aere, in that order.

A last thought before I sleep, partially sparked by Eclipse: I feel like SB is leaving, and then just as people start to forget he's playing the game, he comes back to make a couple shallow and not very meaningful posts, just enough to put him above Anouleth/Tyrant level of activity, and then leaves again. I think Kirsche is doing something similar but the few posts he makes are okay (or better than SB's, at least), so I can buy that he simply doesn't have a lot of time. Also, I'm kinda frustrated that as soon as people stopped poking Kay she stopped posting at all, although there might be another reason for that.

Only works because she's flat.

Maybe I'm miscommunicating what my point is or maybe I'm misinterpreting what 402 is trying to say, but that post doesn't answer my question at all...

Best arc is GSC or RSE. How can anyone not love Gold launching pokebals with a cue stick or Crys kicking her pokeballs?

Okay, I missed that line. So then, if you think Elie is acting weird, why do you not like the wagon on him? How does that make sense?

Also, you're right, me thinking Elie is scum doesn't go with me thinking you're scum for hard defending me. That's because I don't take my scumreads as 100% flipped scum, because I know I'm not an amazing scumhunter who's always right.

Iris, you said that you weren't feeling the wagon on Elie at all, and said it was weird and early. You never said why it was weird, and considering we're like 2/3rds through the phase, it's hardly early. So yeah, you basically just came in, said you didn't think Elie was scummy, and didn't give a reason as to why.

Okay, I stepped away from the game and came back to it, and I've realized that I've been tunneling Kay kind of hard. I still don't like her play, but upon reread of both her posts and mine, my only real reason for voting for her was having fluffy posts without a lot of scumhunting. But I feel that some of her later posts have focused down and attempted to fix that, so I'm moving her slightly down on my scumdar for now. My second on there is Elieson but he has 6 or 7 votes on him already so I don't really think another one is necessary quite yet. So, ##Unvote, ##Vote: Iris I really really did not like this post. I understand your vote against Kirsche for piggybacking on the Elieson wagon without much reasoning. But you basically just handwaved everything everyone has said against Elieson- you defended him but gave no reason for it, and it gives me the feeling that maybe you already know he's going to flip town and you're trying to get townie cred from being against his lynch.

@Kay- I can't pull up any specific posts right now, but the only reply you made to any of the posts that I, or earlier on Prims, made, was by saying that you just weren't a good scumhunter. @Eclipse- I've tried, but I honestly can't see much of a difference between my play this game and my play last game. I'm trying to make my play more consistent, but I'm not really sure what quality my posts had in Anonydraft that they don't have here. Also, Snike's only explanation of his vote against me prior to my post that you linked was that I seemed to be abusing the question mark, which I didn't understand until he elaborated more after my post. Anyways, when I come back in the evening I'm going to try to reread this thread and see if there are things I'm missing.

Well, I'm not currently voting for Elie, but he's one of my top scumreads because he keeps giving scumreads out of nowhere and giving no explanations, which is annoying. Plus, his first post listing his scumreads included SB and the second one didn't even though the second one was supposedly more complete than the first. It feels like he's just pulling these out of thin air. For example, when I said he found Prims scummy based on only the PGO claim, he replied by saying that the 10 pages of posts since that claim had made him think Prims was scummy based on something other than the claim, but he doesn't actually say what it is in the 10 pages of posts that is making him think this way. And when I press him to give more reasons, he acts like just outing his scumreads is bad. My vote is on Kay because she's just handwaving everything said against her and still not actually taking steps to rectify what I thought was wrong with what she was doing.

Elieson, I asked you two questions instantly because you listed people as scum whom you hadn't said a single thing about, not because I was one of those people. Sure, you're allowed to have reads on people you haven't said anything about, but then you back that up with why you have those reads, instead of just stating your reads. And you don't need to make a huge ISO post to explain a scumread either- plenty of other people in the game have made cases so far, and not a single one of them has made an ISO post yet. Also, I read the end, but I thought you made a typo, because if you had more scumreads, why wouldn't you list them all together instead of just saying a couple of them and omitting others? How is outing all your scumreads "foolish"? It just gives the people who are actually town less time to prepare a defence.

Also, Psych, why do you find me scummy? You've put me in your list of scumreads a couple times now but haven't really said why.

I would hardly call thinking 2 people (Elieson + you) are scummy is nearly everyone. I'm also annoyed that you basically handwaved everything said against you and didn't really respond to it at all. I was just about to switch to Elieson but I think I'll stay here.

It was confusing because you used "trying to take advantage of the wagon" in the opposite way when talking about Snike's reaction, as he did basically the opposite thing of Manix. BTW, another reason why I don't like Elie that I left out earlier- his reason behind thinking Prims is scum is entirely based on his claim, and has nothing whatsoever to do with Prims's other actions in the thread.

Prims, how does Manix's reaction make you feel that Kay is town and scum is trying to take advantage of her wagon? If that was the case, then wouldn't scum!Manix be voting for Kay instead of defending her?

Okay, Manix, I missed that post against Elieson and the fact that you were voting for him. My mistake. Also, Prims, I don't think it's the breaking RVS that Manix has a problem with, it's the breaking RVS in such a way so as to draw attention towards him every time and away from scum (when he is town), that is annoying. And then when Elie is scum he does the same thing and when he does scummy things early on he just cites that he always does it to "break RVS". As an example, I believe he did something of that sort in ICBINSFMM3. Elieson, why are those your scumreads (you haven't said anything direct against any of those people except Prims) and why aren't you voting for any of them? And what suddenly happened to your suspicion against Kay, that she's not even in your list of scum reads any more? My scumreads right now are Elie because his play is starting to feel really similar to how he was in ICBINSFMM3, and Kay, because while her post complaining about frequently getting mislynched for not scumhunting felt sort of sincere, she still didn't actually respond to anything against her in any way other than by saying she's not good at scumhunting.

What? I've never played a game with you, unless you count Anonydraft, in which I was town. How would you know what typical scum!BBM fashion is? Are you mixing me up with somebody else? @Manix- They're linked, yes, but the reason behind the post was to poke faulty reasoning, a side-effect of which happened to be defending Shinori. Elie, for example, voted Kay for more or less the same reason as I did, and you never poked at him for defending Shinori- is that just because he said "I'm not defending Shinori" in his post? @Kay- Well, I wouldn't say I'm a good scumhunter, but when I see people make posts, I try to see the motivation behind them and think whether scum would make a post like that, or if they'd want to make a post like that. And then if I find something I think scum would do, I vote for that person (unless someone else is going something scummier). With you, it feels like a lot of small poking with not much conviction behind it because you don't back it up properly. Which is why my vote is on you. Plus, you still haven't explained the reason behind your vote for me. On another note, I'm too lazy to link, but there was a post SB made a while back where he said a bunch of stuff about other people and at the end, just voted for Tyrant. Why?

In SFM, you were town trying not to do die. You are/were accusing Prims of scum trying to coast on a PGO claim- how are these things the same?

Quickly saying something before I eat (I'll say more after I come back). I'm not really sure why Snike is voting for me? If it's because I use too many question marks (?), that's just my typing style. And I'm not sure at all why Kay is voting for me. Also Rein, your post linking to your role doesn't work for me (and apparently the role in the flip is different from what's in postgame) so can you just say what post exactly it is in the thread? Kay, talking about game theory is not bad- it's just that it's not good either. And I honestly haven't seen any posts from you that try to do anything of value. Manix, you're looking at my post as me defending Shinori. I'm looking at my post as me attacking faulty reasoning. I would have done the same even if what was said was against somebody else with no votes at all.

Also, wrt to the sheeping Prims, let me go more in detail of why I don't Kay is doing much. Her first few posts are just role speculation and game theory (and are you seriously blaming Prims for starting role speculation by claiming PGO?), and then she pokes a bit at Shinori's post (but it's mainly building on what other people are saying), and then doesn't actually back up whatever she's saying with a vote, leaving people (me, at least) unsure whether she's advising Shinori to sober up and come back, or saying he made a scumslip while drunk. Also, Marth, if you think I'm sheeping Prims and that is bad, why didn't you point out anything about Manix sheeping Eclipse on Shinori possibly making a scumslip while drunk? Just because you agree with the case on Shinori and not with the one against Kay? On a completely unrelated note, kind of annoyed that Tyrant came in after the game had started, confirmed he was still playing, and then didn't actually do or say anything. And Elie you do this thing every game whether he's town or scum where you says something really stupid to stop RVS and get people to talk about what you're doing, which is annoying and puts you on people's scumdars even when you're not scum, so you should stop doing it. >_>

It's not about how many votes he has against him, it's that the reason for the votes against Shinori is not RVS (other than Rapier), and it's not a good one. ED1 and all, sure, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to poke at a really lame reason for voting for somebody if it's serious.

@Aere- I'll let it go I guess because upon reread you didn't actually press him as hard before suddenly switching as I thought you did. I thought about it and while I'm kind of wary of Elieson still, what Eclipse is saying makes sense. There isn't much scum motivation for challenging the PGO claim so brazenly from the very beginning. Uhh, I'm not really liking the case against Shinori right now. Why are you guys pressing him so hard on one sentence he said when he was drunk? And Kay saying he 's digging himself deeper- how? His excuse for the so-called "scumslip" was the same from the beginning, he just started to say it in caps lock instead of lower case as he had to repeat it again and again. Plus I kind of agree with Prims- it feels like Kay is making large posts without much actual content in them. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Kay