BBM
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also I guess: your posts wrt Omega- based on yesterday's info but not completely since he's also a protective roleclaim and I can add another one: your inability to find a target other than me- based on today's info
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I didn't say that Omega is scum because a hatedmaker/anonmayor could exist. I said that since a hatedmaker/anonmayor does exist means that there's no requirement for Omega's role to exist. Regardless of whether it does or not, the inclusion in Gaius's PM makes sense. cases I added on you today: your role action claims not making sense- based on today's info of your action claims your inconsistency in treating protective roleclaims- based partially on your posts yesterday but also partially on today's info of you claiming a 1x protective role ability
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I'm not throwing out every idea to get you lynched. If I was I wouldn't have said that you being on both the early lynch wagons wasn't a definitive reason for you being scum. The fact that you went from pushing Omega over play and too many protective role claims to being so positive he isn't scum is what's making me suspect you. Elie, who do you think is my buddy? You don't think Omega is scum and you don't think Snike is scum. Do you even have a case on Prims? even if Omega IS town, there still has to be some sort of hatedmaker or anonymous mayor in the game or something, as proved by two early lynches. So there's no reason for Omega being town based on Gaius' flip (which mentioned Mayor, hated, and loved).
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I considered the possibility of Omega/you briefly because your role is kind of scummy but that's probably just me overthinking it. I'm basically just typing this post so that if dead people yell at town in postgame for completely overlooking you I can say that I at least thought about it.
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I want to lynch Omega over Elie because I'm annoyed Omega has skated this entire game despite doing jackshit but Elie is a better lynch I guess.
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actually it was Gorf who said that your one post was really good, but the fact is that other than asking you why you voted Gaius over me, he hasn't pushed you since ED3.
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omega has spent the entire game jumping on people who jumped on him. First me of course, but yesterday he threatened GORF in #687 about being scum because gorf thought he was more likely to be scum than me. even if he thinks the scumteam is you and me, which let's be serious doesn't make any sense for multiple reasons, there's no reason for voting you rather than me.
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yeah except when I questioned him about dropping you as a scumread after making one good post he was like THAT POST WAS REALLY GOOD and he's spent the last two days calling me scum over you. my flavour is Rapier encouraging SB to not give up and avenge the rest of their scumteam in C9++ after SB had already been lynched.
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actually it's not a strictly better version of Sneak bc Watcher but it's still got a lot of use other than blocking Doc
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also yes the game has two potential kill-sources but the SK is only even-night and I have no idea what you mean by "immune to investigation" when there's an ITP-CHECKER claim are you forgetting that scum safeguard can make buddies untrackable and unfollowable? It's a better Sneak
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what the hell is wrong with a delayed motivator? why is it so unbelievable in this setup? it's a meh role but people in the thread seem to be cycling between calling it useless and calling it OP. the truth is that motivator is a really good role so if it works out then no shit it's OP. But the delay nerfs it so it's not very good anymore. W Prims why is Omega voting you?
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I think that the scumteam is Elie/Omega. I realize that Elie's claim doesn't matter if he's scum, but notice that I also thought that there were too many protective roleclaims and flipped roles at the end of last phase. I mentioned Elie's claim to appeal to other people, namely you. Elie's turnaround on Omega is BS. Let's read a timeline of Elie's posts about Omega and protective role claims: prior to Doc-claim: Omega is scum #669: wrt Omega/Marth protective roleclaims- a bunch of small protective role variants makes more sense than one big protective role + a bunch-1 of small protective role variants; Omega could be fakeclaiming #731: Marth's claim is really weird but it's so weird it's believable #732: Omega is second-towniest player in the game and Marth is also still townie this is not a natural progression. I don't know why Omega isn't voting me either; the only explanation for the Prims vote is that he realized he was getting lynched today and decided to troll the game.
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I should clarify though; I think there are too many potential sources of the early lynches, such as scum hated-maker, for that to be a definitive reason for scum!Elie. However, I'm unsure whether I buy his reasoning for idling N1. I know he hadn't been paying attention, but why not just rand a rolecop target? And his N2 reasoning for targeting J might be worse; "here's this guy who possibly made someone else's role fail when they targeted him so I'm going to target them too with my 1x ability".
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I'm not sure if this is what Snike's referring to or not, but Elie was on both of the wagons that got lynched early but not on the ones that didn't. Elie, considering that you were also suspicious of Omega on too-many-protective-roles and knew you were going to be claiming another one today, why Bookie me and not Omega?
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That's another gimmicky 1x protective role claim. We're lynching Omega today. interested to hear Omega's explanation for why Gorf is dead. cut by Omega voting prims. ok.
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I'll check it. Send it to me when you get back I guess.
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##Unvote, ##Vote: Gaius
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Should I just hammer to be safe?
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in #744, a big reads listpost, you said that the slot was probably town. You also mention at the top of that post itself that Snike is an ITP Cop. And the Gilgamesh/Weapons interactions, something you say in that post as "pretty indicating of town" is also apparently forgotten or not considered important in your recent Snike push.
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gaius, do you hammer yourself? why are you going me over gaius or anybody else? you've literally never said why I'm scum other than gut and you no longer have the excuse of trying to hide being doc. step it up if you're town.
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Prims, you have Elie/BBM/Gaius as not town-reads. But look at it FMPOV. If I write off Omega and Weapons and Marth as town then I'm left with Elie/Gaius as buddies. At first I was just thinking "they kind of have to be scum then bc there's nobody else" but after reading them again and considering Elie's Gaius push, I couldn't see them as buddies. Then I was thinking about Omega again and what put me over the edge for thinking that his role could be superfluous is realizing that J's lightningrod is also a 1x protective role, kind of. If he'd used it on a night where the SK could kill, it would reduce kill count, and it also would help a townie person live an extra night phase. It's weak, yeah, and so are Rogue and non-consec-conditional BPV, but add all of those together and they're not insignificant, esp since the SK is only non-consec. And if you add Doc to that it's suddenly ehhhhh. I could have tried drumming up more support for an Elie lynch, but honestly it would have required more confidence in the read than I had. Not sure what you would have preferred I do- pretend I was super sure that Elie was scum? @Snike- Yes, Elie had used the word mayor before. Gaius called it a hammerer in thread but in my head I was thinking of Gaius's role as an anonymous mayor sort of, and not what he claimed it to be, so I just used the word mayor. @Elie- honestly I didn't even think about your buddy; you were just the only person I was suspicious of at the time. My thoughts were that if you were scum, Gaius probably wasn't (and vice versa) and the last scum was probably Omega or maybe Weapons. Gaius's claim doesn't make sense to me. Firstly, follower + itp checker + loud tracker is too much investigation most likely. Gaius's Snike case isn't great. But what I don't get is, why wasn't Gaius pushing Snike from the beginning of the phase based on the fact that there would have been too many info roles? And as Prims said I would have expected some hesitancy about Hannah if she didn't go anywhere? I can see motivation for town Gaius to claim his role though, if he was worried about being lynched, since I think he was tied as the leading wagon at the time. I feel like the most likely possibility is that he's BSing follower so that he could point to how mafia already had a follower; with so many vanilla or effective vanilla claims it would be an easy fake. I also kind of want Gaius to not be lynched just to corroborate my role too, but ugh he's probably scum.
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yeah I know I kept saying I would write an Elie case but I'm reading his ISO and I just can't put words to it coherently or pretend this is something I can write a wall about. It's just being kind of unmemorable I guess. He's kind of consistently pushed Omega the last two phases but it just doesn't seem like he's that invested in it actually? also I agree with him about Gaius not having many new cases but his Hannah vote wasn't really "welp PoE" since he'd been voting her since D1. also as I was reading Elie's ISO I looked more at the Gaius vote shenanigans and I don't get it. Is my understanding of Gaius's role completely wrong? I thought 'Hammerer' meant his role automatically lynched people at L-1 if he was on the wagon. Can you explicitly say what your role does again Gaius? however I was also looking at the rolespec about protection roles and now I'm agreeing with it and thinking SB might have given Doc as a fake. idek anymore. kind of deciding between Elie and Omega right now. except nobody other than maybe elie is going to vote Omega today so I'm just going to go with Elie. Phase ends in around 5h I think? I have to leave in like 5-10 minutes though and won't be back for phase end. I'm thinking like Elie > Omega > Gaius right now I guess. Probably you guys are going to lynch me since nobody except Gorf is townreading me though so uh... please don't do that?
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@Snike a) I haven't been playing the entire game; I subbed in halfway through D2. b) I'm not the first person to refer to Gaius as a mayor. c) this is the first time I'm mentioning Gaius's rolename directly so it's not like I suddenly did something out of the ordinary. d) why would Gaius call his role Mayor among his buddies but not in the thread? It's not like Mayor is a scummy role. e) Successfully motivating the Doc would require either luck on my part, or the Doc to survive for several night phases after they claimed. f) Doc and other strong roles being motivated is like... why motivator is a good role, and why it was nerfed to be delayed. @Gorf- I don't think anyone was suggesting he was a mayor/doublevoter AND a hammerer. Anonymous mayor (used before on this site) and hammerer are essentially the same role though, so I was just using them interchangeably in my head. Also, you can tell me who to target but I'm not really sure what difference it would make? You don't have a night action, Marth doesn't have a night action, Snike doesn't have a useful night action, I don't think Prims and Gaius have night actions, and Omega has one but he's not going to survive long enough to confirm. That leaves maybe Elie, whom I could target but I don't think he's town anymore (coming up next post).
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##Vote: Elieson I'll type up more tomorrow morning I guess but it basically comes down to what I said earlier. Honestly I'm not that confident but this is my best guess right now.
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what?
