BBM

actually yeah, Tracker is pretty much entirely useless because it confirms nothing at all unless SB targets scum on the kill. Sure there's probably a GF but I'm not guaranteed to target them, and I have just the same odds of targeting the non-scum GF as SB has of targeting the scum on the kill.

also I just can't buy that town has a cop, watcher, and tracker. Even with this game's mechanics, that's just too much. In some ways, the fact that they're spread over 3 elements is even more OP because it means there's like an 80% chance that at least one of the 3 is picked on any given night, going by probability, whereas if they were all in one element, sure you could use them all at once, but there'd only be like a 33% chance of the element even getting picked. Now, of course this changes since it's not really random and at least one of the investigative roles would probably campaign hard for that element to get picked, but still. @Mancer- well either way I'm not lynching you Also I think I'm in favour of letting SB live today because I doubt that scum would have like two trackers so I GUESS if we go with Holy, if he can prove his role then he'd be clear That being said, Tracker in this game is pretty much as easy as Cop to fake for scum, since he can just pick a townie and go "hey they visited nobody" and it wouldn't even be a clear with 2 scum alive

we're not going to lynch you when you're 99% not scum Your flip wouldn't even give info, because you flipping town doesn't mean your reads are necessarily correct, you're not in a 1v1, and nobody even thinks you're scum. the only times town dying contributes to town victory: a) your death in some way allows somebody's alignment to be determined b) your death means someone more important isn't dead Neither of these are the case here

and Shin hasn't said that he can remove the boulder so I'm pretty sure that the only way it can be done is to select Earth as the element.

SB do you really think that town has a Cop, a Tracker, and a Watcher?

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=505057 okay tier list; though something you will realize upon reading the thread is that they place a VERY high emphasis on reliability and don't really care about turncount at all. There's a dude in there who advocates for Huns to be higher because you can win really fast victories with them if you're good and he's pretty much shot down because they treat a 95% reliable 200 turn win more favourably than a 80% reliable 100 turn win. I mean, I would put the civ that can win all 4 ways in 200 turns higher than the one that can only really win in one way in a 100 turns, but probably not 4 tiers higher, so that's a thing.

@Beli- about Shin, you're assuming that he CAN even remove the boulder once he uses it.

SB brings up some good points on Refa so I'm seriously leaning towards Beli/Refa scumteam atm. Something interesting about Marth I just realized- he pushed Beli as his counterwagon even though Shin had more votes at the time so on one hand this could be like Marth not wanting to push his scumbuddy Shin or it could be Marth trying to give his buddy some towncred before he died >_>

okay WATCHER this changes everything grrrrr I was thinking while I was out that Refa/Shin scumbuddies didn't make much sense, and I am now having serious second thoughts about Belisarius because Prims considers Watcher the strongest role in the game (and Cop the second strongest) and I'm therefore really unsure whether or not Prims would give town a Cop and a Watcher. And I think it's safe to say that the odds of town having a Cop, a Tracker, AND a Watcher (and FMPOV especially since I can gravedig all of those roles) are very low so I am like 95% sure that one of SB/Beli is scum now.

forgot to do this

Actually I've changed my mind and feel like Refa might be more likely to be scum off ~rolespec than SB. IAFAICS we don't have any investigation other than Cop so the Tracker claim seems legit, especially as they're two different elements. Still dunno about the vengeful thing but ugh I guess I can see Refa WIFOMing. 6/2 right now; a legit strategy might be to lynch Refa and have him vengekill SB if he's town? If he's scum then he'll probably vengekill Eclipse or Mancer. I feel pretty confident right now that at least 1/2 of Refa and SB are scum so it'll be 5/1 going into the night either way. Worst case it'll be like 4/2 and we'll know that the scumteam is like Beli/Shin? @mancer- driver is a pretty good protective role and I've explained why, disregarding roles I find Shin scummy, like ten times. I don't have time atm to reiterate myself; go through most of my D2 and ED3. And if you're randomizing your protection target you're not doing it correctly I'm sorry. Also it's difficult to take your whining seriously right now because I know you're wrong about my alignment and there are several others who haven't used their role yet. Shin needs to come back and be more specific about his role. What element is it? How many times can it be used? These are questions he's dodged all game. @xinny- my role is the strongest role of the uncleared that town has right now. >_> It can help town in the unlikely scenario where Beli is scum. Nobody else's can, and that's why my role should be allowed to live. Beli needs to get in here. Kind of frustrated that Eclipse didn't say who she thought was scum at all. >_> Out for a few hours

I was talking to Mancer there. And yes, he doesn't want to go for BIG TOWNREADS, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have gone for a LITTLE TOWNREAD or at least someone who was, from what it looked like on D1, in some danger of dying at some point. There is in fact an area between "obvtown" and "null" for him to target. And that's like not even counting that he could have gone for Mancer, who was never going to be the N1 kill but still looked reasonably town that he probably wouldn't be blocking investigative reports. The choice to target you was in his words: "someone relatively quiet who's not in particular danger of being mislynched". Why would you delayed-omniguard this person over "someone who looks reasonably town who's not in particular danger of being killed N1"?

idk the main thing about Poly right now is that I'm just not sure if Prims would have scum/town Co-drivers AGAIN as well as scum/town neighbours again when that's so overdone at this point

You're saying like WHY WOULD A ROLE TARGET X and then dismissing my answer for being rolespec??? You're literally asking for rolespec I don't understand. Let me flip the question to you. Why would a Town Omniguard target Xinny? today you all learn that I don't actually go to sleep for at least an hour after I say I will Also my numbers weren't taking vigshots into account. Assuming it's 7/2 right now, we have 1 mislynch and 2 misvigs. If you guys are really going to lynch or vig me this is where I'm at wrt other people's alignments for PoE: Shin > Poly > SB > Refa > Beli

can't gravedig passive abilities

if he can't target his buddies then why not? Xinny wasn't looking particularly townie on D1 and for that matter Shin wasn't even townreading her. I can get that he might not have wanted to target someone he thought would die, but at least it would make more sense to target someone he actually was leaning town on? And it also denied town it's protective role because we couldn't pick Earth (although they didn't know that). Also I actually have a lot of non-Shin content this phase and if you read my posts EVEN A LITTLE BIT you can see that I am nowhere near as sure about my Shin read this phase as I was about Elie on D1 so this is actually nothing similar to that case at all. Sorry Mancer. Anyways gotta wake up EARLY so night guys if Shin is town then we could also pick earth and I could jail Xinny to keep her alive through the night, if that's really a concern. I wouldn't exactly object to a Poly vig but right now I'm feeling like Shin is more likely to be scum, though I could see Shin/Poly, Mancer was pushing for the Marth lynch really hard at end D1 so I don't think he's scum, Refa

I'm doing homework right now but please don't vig me ;_; at the least I'm putting in a lot more effort than POLY although really I'd rather Shin be vigged over him

uhhhhhh why are you voting for Archer if you want me to be lynched or vigged???

you're more confirmed town than Shin is because of your attempts to lynch Marth at deadline D1

if they had like one ability per element, I could use one of those abilities, but that's it, since I can only target someone once

wow fml Prims just told me I can't backup day abilities this was not made clear in my PM ;/

I didn't say it WAS a JoaT; I said that one way of looking at it is a JoaT that unlocks abilities as the game progresses, which is technically true I've mentioned Co-Driver a lot because it's literally the only co-person role that's existed on SF

FINE I'm a Gravedigger; I can use abilities belonging to dead players as long as their element is currently active (except I can't get non-elemental or dark abilities). I also can't target the same person more than once. I couldn't do anything N1. On N2, Prims told me that only Disabler is Wind (both Bookie and Forecaster are apparently non-elemental) so that was the only role available to me. I didn't want to disable someone just to prove my role so I idled. In hindsight (literally thought of this while writing this post) I could have targeted Shin since he'd already used his ability, but I didn't think of that at the time. This is why I want us to pick Wind again, so that I can use kirsche's Cop, and it's why I said I was secretly hoping that Xinny would die, so that I could use her dayvig. It's also why on D1 I said that I suspected that a vig would be non-elemental or dark, because I thought that Prims didn't want me to backup a killing role or something. Since Xinny is Fire, I can only assume that he doesn't want me to be able to replace Mancer or Poly for their co-ability. Xinny- can you elaborate why you think my element choices have been weird? I thought for most of D2 that the rock blocked only role abilities, since Prims referred to it as an Ascetic, which is why I was voting Knight for so long. After that got debunked I didn't really care what got selected since the only dead element was Earth and using the Jailkeep wasn't worth removing the rock.

I don't remember that anywhere but in any case we don't have anyone's word but Shin's for that, do we? Have you forgotten how scum in NSFMM4 used their vanillize once and then faked it twice on other scumteam members?

wait Marth disabled Shin?