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Geriba

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    Rate the Unit, Day 42: Athos

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted

    I think a lot of people look at ~5 as neutral, so a character like Wil is overall detrimental. Athos helps some, and helping some>>>>>sucking a lot. If Noble Lady of Caelin was the last chapter of the game, I'd probably give Wil somewhere around a 5.

    I like this. Not how I would use the scale, but it's clear, consistent, and agreeably-put. Friend request? :newyears:

    Rate the Unit, Day 42: Athos

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted

    If Wil could reliable OHKO those flying annoyances, while ignoring defense on everything else, AND being able to near-full-heal everyone, then sure, he'd be getting a better rating.

    Those stipulations aren't necessary. Athos is getting high ratings because he makes one (easy) chapter slightly easier, and I'm giving you an example where Wil makes one (easy) chapter slightly easier. 10/10s all around for my main man William.

    Rate the Unit, Day 42: Athos

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted

    I seriously cannot understand these rankings. It'd be like if the final chapter were just the righthand portion of Noble Lady of Caelin, and the only enemies were those two gullible PKs, then Wil would be getting 6-7/10s all over the place. :facepalm:

    Rate the Unit, Day 42: Athos

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted · Edited by God Brady

    Man, the hell are up with these rankings? :lol:

    On ranked, Athos is almost never used. While he's an offensive beast, he costs you some serious experience; at best, he's a 30-mag healer (admittedly nice, but it's expendable). On efficiency, he's great in Light, but let's think about that: he's great... for one chapter.

    EDIT: going with frat on this one, .5/10

    Link Arena Tier List

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted · Edited by God Brady

    Lyn should move up, shes got Mani Katti and Brave Bow access and Supports that can give her up to +5 att and 25 crit

    Without supports max str Lyn against max def Hector quads him for 5 damage per shot, which is over 20 damage total. Add in supports that's over 40 damage in one round.

    The only quality supports Lyn has are with Hector and Wallace, neither of which grants full attack. Unless you want to waste a unit slot with mounted fodder like Kent or Eliwood, full attack is off the table. That said, we can look at your battle hypothetical more closely:

    At max stats with the Wo Dao (which, against Hector, is just a Mani Katti with additional crit) and going against a non-reaver axe, Lyn's doing 4x2 damage for 8 total pre-supports. With the Brave Sword, thanks to AS loss, she's doing 5x2 damage for 10 total. Factoring in realistic supports, Hector's looking at some very viable options with Farina, Florina, and Oswin, each of which grants full defense. With full supports, we're looking at +2 attack for Lyn versus +5 defense for Hector; if we decide to be as generous as possible to Lyn, and field both Eliwood and Kent (which will never, ever happen), it's still 5 to 5-- a clean wash.

    EDIT: I'm tempted to move Hawkeye above Dart. He's got nothing in the "viable supports" department, but his 16 con and 28 speed let him wield both hammers and brave axes without penalty. What this translates into is quadrupling Generals @11x4dmg w/WTA, or doubling Generals@22x2dmg w/WTA (assuming both hammer hits connect). That's pretty sexy.

    Link Arena Tier List

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted · Edited by God Brady

    You have twice as many RNG advisable levels for Guy, no doubt having him end up more durable than Karla. That, and most things wielding a brave lance will have Karla shaking in her pretty little boots. I'm sure my argument is weak, only because lack of link arena experience, but if RNG abuse is present, like you say, Guy should end up superior on all levels (sans constitution).

    Also, would that be a similar argument for Vaida being over Heath?

    Your arguments aren't weak, but there is a bit of a disconnect here. The biggest thing: when I say "RNG abuse," I mean abuse. The Link Arena is like a playground to test units at their absolute peak, and if that means abusing Karla to get +7 stat-ups at every level, then so be it. This applies to Guy as well, of course, which explains the HP differential.

    You forgot the main character of FE7

    I did indeed. See if you can spot him now!

    HINT: He's among the trash units with teh ponys

    Link Arena Tier List

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted

    I missed that one whoops, anyways a 7-8% chance of Silencer isn't quite reliable or good and their shitty defensive caps don't make it much better..

    I think you've nailed it. The only thing I would add is that, despite how bad assassins are in LA play, the units below them are just that much worse. Their competition boils down to a) bishops with an underwhelming 26 speed cap, horrid defense, and heavy tomes that are just asking for a 'zerker doubling, b) mounted units who are flayed by horse-slaying weapons, and c) Louise.

    Link Arena Tier List

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted · Edited by God Brady

    Jaffar should be higher IMO.

    High str base and silencer.

    Please read the OP carefully. Base stats mean virtually nothing, as RNG abuse is assumed in light of optimal play. Silencer is worth pointing out, however, as the sole saving grace of the assassin class from abject failure. Caps are pretty abysmal- 20 maximum in strength, defense, and resistance- but Silencer offers a remote possibility of positive contribution. As a nice bonus, with 30 speed, they can double generals, warriors, and Hector, increasing their shots at a OHKO twofold. Iron rune spoils the fun a bit, naturally.

    Having -19 HP (potentially -5 HP) with shitty max defense doesn't help.

    In case the item list wasn't clear, there are actually three angelic robes Jaffar can take advantage of. The DD! robe is in addition to the two found in standard HHM gameplay.

    Karla above guy, srsly?

    Better constitution, better supports. HP is a problem, however, especially with Swordslayer!Berserkers and !Warriors roaming around. I've seen Karla effectively used in support-chain teams, which is why I gave her the slight nudge over Guy despite her health problems; I'm more than willing to hear an argument to the contrary.

    Link Arena Tier List

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted · Edited by God Brady

    This could be fun. :newyears: {Aside: I encourage PMs if you have a question or issue you'd like to keep private}

    OPENING COMMENTS AND LIST CONDITIONS, PLEASE READ

    Assumptions:

    1) Optimal play is assumed. Consequently, units are not penalized for requiring RNG abuse to reach their full potential. This is equally true of support abuse.

    2) LHM is assumed. Three reasons for this: one, it opens up the possibility of an extra angelic robe/energy ring for LM characters; two, many characters are disadvantaged from skipping LM (such as Lyn herself, whose HP potential drops from 57 to 56); three, assuming LHM over LNM avoids complications with Wallace's forced promotion (as without forced promotion, he can cap all stats naturally).

    3) For the sake of simplicity, it is assumed that the player elected not to have a tactician. [i'm 95% sure that Tactician Bonuses carry over if present.]

    4) Items and weapons received from either the mine glitch or the Double Dash!! bonus disc are considered fair use. Of particular note here is the Über Spear (here on abbreviated as US), around which LA play tends to centralize.

    5) Winner is decided by survival, not by points.

    Things to note:

    -Understand that Unit A being placed above Unit B on this list doesn't necessarily mean that A is the better option for all teams in all situations, nor that A can necessarily beat B in a one-on-one fight. What it means is that, ceteris paribus, A is a superior candidate than B for most LA teams.

    -As capped stats are shared, only three major factors distinguish units within the same class: constitution, support options, and falling short "naturally" (i.e. without boosters) of caps; all base-class characters can naturally reach their non-HP caps, meaning this problem only seriously affects certain prepromotes. HP is a problem stat for many characters, however, as you can see in the data below.

    -About the US: due to its significant, strategy-defining stat bonuses, the placement of lance users on this list assumes no US. The reasoning here is that most teams will include more than one lance user, and bunching all such units at the top doesn't help compare, say, a general to a warrior. In most cases, if Unit A is better than Unit B without the US, the quality gap will be proportional even if both A and B have the US. I grant that there may be exceptions, such as a unit benefitting more than usual from the speed bonus; in these uncommon cases, a unit's adeptness at US use will be factored in to their list placement to some degree.

    -A few minor reminders about Link Arena mechanics. First, the effects of the Delphi shield and iron rune still apply. Second, note that the three-square radius for support bonuses carry over into Arena play, making unit placement important.

    Some stats you might find useful:

    Natural capping deficiencies by character, in order of initial recruitment:

    Lyn -> HP (-3)

    Sain -> HP (-1)

    Serra -> HP (-2)

    Erk -> HP (-1)

    Matthew -> HP (-2)

    Lucius -> HP (-3)

    Marcus -> HP (-10), Luck (-3)

    Rebecca -> HP (-2)

    Priscilla -> HP (-5)

    Canas -> HP (-4)

    Fiora -> HP (-2)

    **Legault -> HP (-1)

    Isadora -> HP (-13), Luck (-1), Res (-1)

    Hawkeye -> Speed (-1), Luck (-1)

    **Geitz -> Luck (-3), Res (-1)

    Farina -> HP (-4),

    Pent -> HP (-13), Luck (-2)

    Louise -> HP (-18)

    Karel -> HP (-17), Luck (-3)

    **Harken -> HP (-6), Luck (-6)

    Jaffar -> HP (-19), Luck (-13), Res (-2)

    **Vaida -> HP (-2), Res (-5)

    Karla -> HP (-16)

    Renault -> HP (-13), Mag (-9), Luck (-16), Def (-3), Res (-8)

    Athos -> HP (-20), Skill (-6), Speed (-5), Luck (-5), Res (-2)

    Units with a (**) designation receive HHM bonuses, which are variable and left somewhat up to chance. Thus, with a little good fortune, you may be able to reduce these deficiencies a bit.

    All other characters are capable of reaching max stats without boosts.

    Constitution list, in descending order:

    Dorcas -> 16

    Hawkeye -> 16

    Oswin -> 16

    Bartre -> 15

    Hector -> 15

    Wallace -> 15

    Dart -> 13

    Geitz -> 13

    Lowen -> 12

    Vaida -> 12

    Harken -> 11

    Kent -> 11

    Marcus -> 11

    Sain -> 11

    Heath -> 10

    Athos -> 9

    Eliwood -> 9

    Karel -> 9

    Legault -> 9

    Raven -> 9

    Renault -> 9

    Canas -> 8

    Jaffar -> 8

    Pent -> 8

    Rath -> 8

    Lucius -> 7

    Matthew -> 7

    Karla -> 7

    Wil -> 7

    Erk -> 6

    Farina -> 6

    Fiora -> 6

    Guy -> 6

    Isadora -> 6

    Louise -> 6

    Lyn -> 6

    Rebecca -> 6

    Florina -> 5

    Priscilla -> 5

    Serra -> 5

    Nino -> 4

    Note that this list assumes post-promotion.

    Quantities of relevant stat-boosting items (item totals assume HHM unless specified):

    A.robe -> 2 (+1 in LM) (+1 on DD!BD)

    E.ring -> 0 (+1 in LM) (+1 in EM) (+1 on DD!BD)

    S.book -> 3 (+1 on DD!BD)

    S.wings -> 3

    G.icon -> 3 (+1 on DD!BD)

    D.shield -> 3 (+1 on DD!BD)

    Talisman -> 3

    Body ring -> 2 (+1 on DD!BD)

    CLARIFICATION: The numbers outside of the parentheses and the numbers inside the parentheses are entirely separate. For example: there are two angelic robes in HHM, one in LM, and one on the DD!BD-- four in total.

    Now we can move on to the list itself:

    Top

    Dart

    Hawkeye

    Dorcas

    Bartre

    Hector

    Oswin

    Wallace

    Upper Mid

    Farina

    Fiora

    Florina

    Vaida

    Heath

    Canas

    Athos

    Lower Mid

    Harken

    Raven

    Lyn

    Karel

    Karla

    Guy

    Wil

    Rebecca

    Pent

    Erk

    Nino

    Rath

    Bottom

    Matthew

    Legault

    Jaffar

    Lucius

    Serra

    Louise

    Lowen

    Kent

    Sain

    Eliwood

    Marcus

    Isadora

    Priscilla

    Renault

    This is a very rough first draft, based on conversations I had on GameFAQs back when the Link Arena was hip and cool. The best part about this list is Karla > Guy

    Now, I'm sure there are a ton of questions and points of dispute, so someone feel free to jump right in.

    LIST EDITS:

    1) Lyn moves above the swordmaster trio. Mani Katti is too lightweight and too useful with its armor-piercing, especially against a key unit like Hector, not to be considered the best of an otherwise mediocre group.

    ~*The Comprehensive Fire Emblem 7 Errors Topic*~

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted · Edited by God Brady

    Not to be a dick, but just laying out some ground rules: we're not going to be talking about the supposed "plot holes" of FE7 here, especially in light of that topic. Without question the single worst thing to come out of Serenes Forest. All reference to such issues will be marked for off-topic posting.

    Oh, maybe it's just the top left then?

    Strangely, it doesn't occur there either. Maybe it's a chapter-related deal?

    ~*The Comprehensive Fire Emblem 7 Errors Topic*~

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted

    That's not deliberate, for some arcane reason the four corner tiles in every map let you canto off them.

    I just tested this on Ch.18xE, and it wasn't true for either the bottom-right or top-right tile for either fliers or cavaliers. If this is true, it's only true in specific instances. The fire tile one's legit, though.

    Rate the Unit, Day 41: Renault

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted

    Dorcas is useable, and provides earlygame offense.

    But, after ch17, are we going to seriously use him?

    He does slow down, and has bad long-term use.

    Renault can fill in for staffers, and has insta As in Light and Staves.

    and please, don't argue about Pent having the same.

    Pent can't do everything.

    And the one easily obtainible Guiding ring, is heavily contested.

    Though, his only problem is 12 magic..

    Guaranteed early-game use > unlikely late-game use. Plus, Dorcas is extremely useful on ranked runs (which no one else seems to care about :newyears: ).

    Rate the Unit, Day 41: Renault

    in Fire Emblem

    Posted

    5/10.

    Decent all-round, except for magic.

    But, he can heal, doesn't loose alot of AS from tomes, and that's it.

    I tried getting him to S light, it was fun watching him kill FKs and PKs, on a forest tile, after trading him a bunch of lightnings.

    According to the averages, this mean you honestly believe that the character with the worst availability (Renault) is better than the character with the best availability (Dorcas). Like, is this considered "acceptable reasoning"?

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