Life

That's what's great about this game. If you want to customize your team to make your life easier, you can do that. If you don't want to, the game isn't so hard that you're absolutely screwed. That's why Summon Rushes were invented. EDIT: My findings about Tret are pretty straightforward. Diviner!Ivan makes for a great healer, Apprentice!Isaac should have enough PP to constantly use Gaia but the star of the battle should be a level 8 Page!Garet with Forge (Mars) and Breeze (Jupiter). At level 8, Garet gets Volcano (45 Dam) but gets a huge Power Multiplier thanks to Tret having only 25 Fire Resist (read as Weak too). We're talking about 64-67 damage a turn against Tret's 710 HP from Garet alone. Quite nuts, mind you. EDIT: Saturos just became so much fun to beat up. Swordsman!Isaac and Garet should spam Cutting Edge, Diviner!Ivan heals with Cure Well and Elder!Mia uses Impact twice each on Isaac and Garet and uses Prism afterwards. Saturos went down in 6 rounds with Isaac and Garet basically doing 100 damage each by Turn 4. However, I did have to grind in Mercury Lighthouse quite a bit to get Garet to level 11 in order to learn Cutting Edge. That pretty much rules out having Ragnarok by this battle.

And that's where we differ.

Can we call an end to the day phase? And if people want Furet to lead, I've got no problems with that.

Eh... I'm already in the middle of a couple of playthroughs (FE4, FE7, FFVII and ToV). I must have some terrible ADD. Besides, the only thing I'd note are Djinni and equipment set-ups at certain points in the game. As for Gaia and Ivan being your healer, it's much better than the alternative. But Garet using Growth is also quite nice (30+ damage to Earth strong shit in the beginning of the game? Yes please). But Isaac doesn't have Ragnarok yet. When I say level 10 at the base of Mercury Lighthouse, this is after Kolima Forest and Tret Tree. Proto did bring up an excellent point earlier. He suggested to set 1 Mercury on both Isaac and Garet and abuse Cutting Edge, something I've never tried. We'd then end up with Swordsman!Isaac (1 Mercury, 1 Mars), Swordsman!Garet (1 Mercury, 1 Mars), Diviner!Ivan (2 Venus) and Elder!Mia (2 Jupiter). Mia casts Impact on both Isaac and Garet and Saturos dies quickly from 2 Cutting Edges per turn against his 72 Water Resist (surprisingly, Earth is his 2nd lowest Resist). Ivan's on healing duty. There are 3 classes that give Mia the Wish series. Scholar (4+ Mercury), Ascetic (4+ Mars) and Shaman (4+ Venus). The earliest she can use the Wish series is right before the Living Statue at the bottom of Altin Mine. The next two djinni that give her Wish won't be found until after we've killed the Manticore. There's no way I'm gimping her offense and defense just to have Wish ASAP. And don't forget that the Living Statue has 193 Water Resist, almost double his next strongest Resist. And as for Status Affliction, Bind is probably the only useful one in the game. It's like hitting Silence on an enemy except instead of having a 3 use staff, you have a spammable 4 PP move.

I personally always find myself grinding to level 10 outside of Mercury Lighthouse just so I'm the same level as Mia when she joins. The party is level 12 after beating Saturos which means that the first dungeon that we can use Ragnarok in is Fushin Temple... and it's Earth based (sorta). Also, Ragnarok doesn't do as much as you think when we're facing more than one target. Here's the math. Relative Power = (User's Power - Target's Resist). If (Relative Power < -200), Relative Power = -200. If (Relative Power > 200), Relative Power = 200. Power Multiplier (EPA) = 1 + Relative Power / 400 Power Multiplier (Psynergy) = 1 + Relative Power / 200 Damage = (Power Multiplier * Dam) * Djinni Boost + 0-3 Random Damage Squire!Issac has 104 Power with no Venus Djinni and gains 5 Power for every Venus set on him. I have no idea of enemy Resist values though. Let's say that an enemy has... 14 Earth Resist. Knight!Issac has 2 Venus set. That gives him a Relative Power of 100. That's a 125% Power Multiplier. Ragnarok has 35 Dam. So it does on average about 45 - 48 damage after the Djinni boost to EPA. Or that's at least what my math tells me. Illusionist!Issac has 0 Venus and 3 Jupiter set. That gives him a Relative Power of 90, a 145% Power Multiplier. Gaia has 40 Dam but suffers an attack penalty as the spell spreads out. It does 61-64 damage to the middle of 3 enemies and about 49-52 damage to the side enemies. I need to check this out to prove it, though. And I'm too lazy to run through the game until I hit Fushin Temple in order to do that properly. EDIT: All I did was calculate the Elemental portion of Ragnarok. I'd need the Physical stats too to find the full damage and for that, I need more info than just making up numbers. Like I'd need to know Issac's stats and his equipment at the time. While that's a great solution, we could do the same thing to Illusionist!Issac and that's another 2-3 Gaias he can pull off. Illusionist!Issac also gets his own EPA (Astral Blast) 2 levels earlier. The best part about Astral Blast is that it's Wind based, allowing Issac to do effective damage on Earth targets while Ragnarok suffers from that Earth Resist problem. Scribe!Mia is barely outdamaging Diviner!Ivan and this is after considering the fact that Mia has 25 extra Water Power. Diviner!Ivan learns Mad Growth at level 12 while Mia starts at level 10 with Tundra. Before level 12, Ivan is using Flash Bolt, which has 40 Dam, costs 7 PP and is Wind (benefitting from that +25 Wind Power that he has). Tundra costs 8 PP and yet only has an extra 5 Dam on Flash Bolt. Once Mad Growth kicks in, its 15 extra Dam on Tundra means that Diviner!Ivan is outdamaging Scribe!Mia quite badly until Mia learns Ice Horn at level 17. That's a good part of the midgame (we're talking about Imil after Mercury Lighthouse to Lama Temple) right there that Ivan is destroying Mia in offense since he controls both Wind and Earth. As for healing, don't make me laugh. Mia's using Ply (100 base) until level 16. Diviner!Ivan gets Cure Well (150 base) at level 10. Power means nothing when Ivan has a 50 Dam advantage on Mia. At 18, Ivan learns Bind, effectively sealing half of the enemies that you fight for a mere 4 PP. What does Mia have to combat that? Cure Poison? Restore? Oh and Shaman!Ivan learns Revive at level 19 against Cleric!Mia's Wish series (8, 22, 46). Double post but I'm just going to check if the calculations I have are correct. I actually am doing a speedrun to figure out what's best where. If you want to see a lot of lazy math, check out the spoiler. I'm not doing calculations for summons and unleashing Djinn, though. Looks like the formulas are correct. This is pretty nifty, to be honest.

Maybe I should do an efficient Djinn run of both Golden Sun games... Like what Djinni on who at what time... What do you mean when you say "without weakening"? And which Dragon? Doom Dragon? Twin Dragon? You can summon rush both of them and take off half their HP in a single turn.

Since you're going Tret first, here's what should probably happen (my opinion only) up until he dies. Ivan should get Flint and become your full time healer since Squire!Issac only has an 80% class bonus in PP vs. Seer!Ivan's 130%. This one is a no contest. This frees up Issac to use Earthquake and Spire on multiple targets. Garet then gets Forge and Issac gets Gust on standby first and then set once Issac hits level 6 (Gaia). Here's a quick comparison of Squire!Issac and Apprentice!Issac. Squire - HP 110% - PP 80% - Att 110% - Def 100% - Agi 110% - Luck 100% Apprentice - HP 100% - PP 120% - Att 110% - Def 100% - Agi 120% - Luck 80% (1 Wind) Squire Psynergy: 1 - Cure 2 - Quake (12 Dam - 4 PP) 4 - Earthquake (35 Dam - 7 PP) 6 - Spire (40 Dam - 5 PP) Apprentice Psynergy: 1 - Delude 6 - Gaia (40 Dam - 7 PP) Apprentice!Issac has better overall stats but what I'm specifically looking at is that 40% discrepancy between PP. He loses out on HP and Luck (he gets poisoned more often, so what?) but they're not big loses. The problem comes with Psynergy. Issac has a better range as a Squire but doesn't have enough PP to constantly use them. Gaia also has the same power (40) as Spire, Squire!Issac's best move while only costing 2 more PP (this is where you consider that 40% PP gap). So once Issac hits level 6, he should be an Apprentice. The next Djinni you get is Granite, a Venus. Put that one on Ivan too to get these results: Wind Seer - HP 80% - PP 140% - Att 80% - Def 90% - Agi 130% - Luck 110% Seer - HP 90% - PP 130% - Att 90% - Def 90% - Agi 110% - Luck 100% (1 Earth) Diviner - HP 110% - PP 140% - Att 100% - Def 100% - Agi 120% - Luck 100% (2 Earth) Wind Seer Psynergy: 1 - Whirlwind (20 Dam - 5 PP) 4 - Ray (35 Dam - 6 PP) Diviner Psynergy: 1 - Cure 2 - Bolt (20 Dam - 4 PP) 3 - Growth (25 Dam - 4 PP) 6 - Flash Bolt (40 Dam - 7 PP) Diviner gives Ivan Cure (with 2 Venus, he heals an extra 10% thanks to elemental powers), a little bit of defense from Earth based attacks (-5% from Magic, -2.5% from EPAs) and better attacking Psynergy. Wind Seer offers him nothing good right now and is much weaker defensively. And the second Jupiter (Breeze) can go to either Issac or Garet. Page!Garet's looking for the stat boosts (+40% PP, +10% Att and +50% Agl against minor loses in HP, Def and Luck) but is strictly a support unit with no attacking Psynergy (only Delude and Ward). As for Illusionist!Issac, he gets minor stat increases across the board from having Breeze set on him but nothing really special. And that set-up should tide you over until after Tret's done. This should give you minimal headache between now and the end of Tret Tree. Couple of problems with this mindset. 1. Issac doesn't get Ragnarok until level 13. We're talking Fushin Temple at the earliest. Not to mention that you're asking him to spam a 7 PP EPA when he doesn't even have a 100% class bonus for PP. Even with 2 Venus Djinni on him, Knight!Issac only has 90% of the PP that he's supposed to have. If he's supposed to have 70 PP, he only has 63. That's a full Ragnarok right there. Apprentice!Issac would have 84 PP in that scenario, giving him a chance to use 3 more Gaias than Ragnaroks for Knight!Issac. 2. With a lot of Mercury Djinni on her, Mia is a great healer. She's just shit at everything else. She has no power, her defense isn't great (it's not like paper thin Ivan but it's kinda close) and all she can do for decent damage is unleashing Sleet and Mist. I'd rather have Ivan be a competant healer and attacker while choosing between Wanderer!Mia (she gets Cure Poison and Restore along with decent Psynergy like Prism and Drench) and Elder!Mia (terrible defense but hilariously strong offense with Impact to boost Garet and Issac along with Prism and Plasma).

Do you mind changing your vote? Or are you going to make it your life's mission to hinder the town?

While this thinking is correct, it doesn't match up with your actions. We have 2 known mafia members in our town: Bizz and Bal. Bizz has an info role, Bal is a thief. And yet, you vote for me on the grounds of "speculation"? Why should I follow you? You're playing Russian Roulette to satisfy your own needs when we have two freshly painted targets that are bound and gagged (pardon me for the metaphor).

Then why do I keep seeing !!! after water attacks on a mono-Mars Garet?

I am trying to lynch Mafia members but your vote on me doesn't help. And this is the kind of shit that I bitch about. I'm one of the smartest people here when it comes to Mafia, meaning that I'm a spy once I'm still alive. What's your proof about you being innocent? The exact same as mine.

Not when we have two confirmed Mafia members. Taking a shot at me like that is more scummy than me defending myself.

I was really cleared. Tables came to me telling me that the alliance checker had checked me out and told him that I was innocent. He's the only "cop" (a literal cop because he gives just the alliance) left in the game. Yes he would claim unlynchable. Or at least to Tables and Lux. All they'd have to do is try to lynch him that day to test the claim. If he lives, he's right. I've played in a game like this where I was a Mafia thief. I was forced to claim thief because of a series of stupid events. Now since there probably aren't going to be 2 thieves in a game, I was lynched based on this logic and found out to be guilty. Now I wouldn't have claimed thief if I could have avoided it but certain events happened that made me. This point makes a lot of sense... except you're forgetting one thing. I never had real access to any role PMs of the town. If I have someone's info, it's because they told it to me on their own terms. What you're suggesting is if I was a spy, I somehow knew the identity of the doctor and had him blocked every right. And yet, the doctor hasn't died. Strange... There could easily be a mafia hooker that we don't know about. But I don't know how to prove this fact to you other than finding that person and lynching him. Other than that, I can show you my role PM and you can make your own decision on whether I'm lying about a protective role. This is the kind of shit that made me make that other topic. Because I'm smart, me helping the town makes me look scummy. Why? Simply because I've been Mafia a lot. This exact scenario happened last time. Our doctor (Raymond) decided to foil my every attempt to help the town. And Spoon called him an idiot in the postgame since he was going after a smart person who was trying to help. Why are you making history repeat itself?

I've beaten both games with single djinn classes on the entire time. For Doom Dragon and Dullahan, I resorted to cheap strategies (hi there summon rush of Charon, Isis and Daedalus). But I've also beaten them by switching around my classes and as long as you know how to deal with the random encounters well, you'll be fine.

Brute should be useful right up until after Mercury Lighthouse. Consider it fantastic in Tret Tree. I'm looking at elemental levels. Guard/Soldier allows Garet to rape a lot of Mercury Lighthouse but he also takes more damage since Fire is weak to Water (and strong against it). Brute/Ruffian will actually mitigate some of the damage that Garet takes in the lighthouse thanks to its dual Earth/Fire affinity. That's what makes this game brilliant. There are so many factors when considering classes. Also, I like the way you're explaining the run. I'll do comments on the classes at specific points in both games as for what I think is the best setup at the time and why. But it really is your choice since this game isn't so hard that you can't beat it without using any class.

I believe that he escaped the lynch thanks to a one use item. According to the posts by MLS after Silent Mercenary died, Bal had the exact same claim (Thief). If Bal was unlynchable, he'd claim that instead of Thief.

Already been done.

No, don't vote for Jean Marc. I've been pursuaded to vote for him. If I don't vote for him, I die. I need the rest of you to vote for Bal. Let's lynch him already.

Yes there is.

No, everyone don't claim to Spike. No offense but I don't think you should lead the village. ##Vote for Jean-Marc to avoid my brain being crushed. OK, I'm now going to volunteer myself to be the Town Leader. I was in touch with both Tables and MLS before they died and I have basically been cleared by both of them. I also have a lot of info on the town from talking to everyone since the start of the game but if I don't have your role PM, I'd like to have it. Also, we should lynch Balcerzak today. We have had proof for a couple of days that he's Mafia. And yet he's still alive.

Psych, just from reading that last role PM, I can already see how this game isn't balanced. 3rd party can't win unless both live to the final 3? You mean, a mafia that can't kill has to lynch and hope that the real mafia kills the right people so that they win? Are you retarded or something?

So... you've completely butchered everything that most people like about FE8 and are expecting people to play it? Yeah, good luck with that.

It's probably best to put Flint on Garet for the time being. Garet isn't great at using magic psynergy but what Brute does is give him a single target heavy hitting psynergy move (I think it's called Planet Diver but it's been a while since I've played). Putting it on Issac won't do much for right now other than boost his stats. And you don't have Ivan yet (Plasma is god in the earlygame). EDIT: Garet doesn't learn Planet Diver until Level 13, my bad. Let me do a quick analysis for up to level 10 (around Mercury Lighthouse). Guard - HP 110% - PP 80% - Att 100% - Def 110% - Agi 70% - Luck 100% Brute - HP 100% - PP 70% - Att 120% - Def 90% - Agi 110% - Luck 70% (1 Earth) Guard Psynergy: 1 - Flare 4 - Fire 6 - Flare Wall 8 - Volcano Brute Psynergy: 1 - Growth 6 - Blast (Nova) Honestly, even with a slight drop in PP, Brute's the better way to go. Guard is going to rape Mercury Lighthouse but have problems against Saturos. Brute will at least let you spam Growth for decent damage.

Well, here's the story. I'm bored of FFIX (I'm in Pandaemonium). I'm at BBD in FE7 in order to reunlock EHM. Football starts tomorrow so forget using the TV to play ToV. I'm currently working on FE4 but that's designed to be a boredom run. So I'll just continue this. Going to quickly speed through the game until I get to where I used to be.

I think Bizz wants to live... Can't we just lynch Bal instead? I like her more, she's bubbly.