Sunsurge

I loved my daughter, Morgan. XD She was so cute, and took after her dad splendidly. And she got my hair, because I married Lucina and my Robin had the same shade of blue hair. Which I really, really, enjoyed. Also she was just adorable to me, personality and everything. Kana is....whatever. One, I hate the girl Kana's look (so M!Kana wins), but I can't even GET Kana if I marry Niles, soooo, I hate Kana even more because of it. And also he's just a little kid with nothing that makes him endearing to me.

Robin wins both for me. I haven't technically finished Conquest of Birthright yet---but that's honestly because both routes are hard for me to get into the story. Corrin is so ... weak. In Conquest I could go on and on about how silly and ridiculous the whole thing seems, and how frustrating Corrin is as a character and in Birthright Corrin is just so bland. I think Corrin just has too much of a childish, naive personality. But to me it's not written in an endearing way, or even in a way that seems realistic. And it grates on my nerves again and again because I would literally do NONE of the things Corrin has done in the game. So they feel less like the Avatar and more just like the main character I'm forced to use. I loved Robin and even though Robin had a pretty defined personality, I still ENJOYED Robin as the Avatar. It's hard for me to self-insert into a white character (haha), so instead I usually treat Avatar's as my own personal character that I guide around, rather than an extension of myself. And in that vein, I liked Robin a lot more, because he never did anything that grated on my every nerve. And gameplay, I really detest the animation for Corrin's sword fighting. And I hate the stupid pointy ears and becoming that ugly horse/dragon. (I LOVE dragons, but I think this one is hideous). And Robin wins in both outfit, and the Grandmaster class was my absolute favorite (and obviously a total beast).

I hate Felicia's stupid voice. I thought I'd get used to it, but I hate it. And I hate her stupid, stupid laugh when she only gets two/three level up points (which is all the time). Even with the Flame Shuriken she's still useless to me. Also I hate clumsy characters, because they're written to be so annoying and silly, but I had to use her as a secondary healer in Nohr because I had her and Elise. But in my Hoshido file, where I'm female, I realized Jakob is soooooo much more useful. And I like how he throws subtle shade at people all the time. But I def. prefer Jakob so much more.

Not to me. I thought it was silly when it was introduced. I didn't have an opinion one way or the other with it, so removal is fine. What I don't understand is people are upset about this silly feature (and name changes-but like honestly what are you expecting?), but here I am just wishing they would let the gay options have freaking kids instead of shorting us out of one/two playable characters. In my actual legit playthrough I'll never be able to marry who I want because I want the damn children. Like can we talk about the important issues?

Idk. I really liked Robin. XD If the avatar isn't customizable like Dragon Age: Inquisition, then I kinda just make a character that's in a new story. So for Awakening, I made Vane, who I adored. XD He wasn't supposed to be ME, which is why I didn't mind him having a defined personality. The best part was just a character I could customize and felt like I inserted into the game. Haven't played Fates, but I'm sure it won't be terrible. But even when I have full customization (DA:I), I still make a character. I hardly ever make ME (except in the latest Pokemon because they offered DARK SKIN), but usually I create a whole new character and I think that's fun. The only way I would reallllly just LOVE the avatar is if we got dialogue trees and our personality was based around the answers we choose (I mean it's not like Awakening was fully voiced ANYWAYS, so it was totally possible). But generally I'm not a fan of silent protagonists (Ludger from Tales of Xillia), because I'd rather them have a personality already assigned, then two choices that don't really feel like an option. But no. I like Avatar characters. Though I think I'd prefer the whole Robin situation where you weren't the LORD, but you still played a major part in the story. (maybe it's because I like being a magical character and I like being on the sidelines).

This sounds like me. XD I'm like, 'ugh', do I HAVE to use the swords? XD I just like being a mage all the time. So what's a good FLAW, if Magic is your asset?I hear so many mixed responses!

Weirdddd results. Camilla is skimpy, but it's not like she's pretty, imo! I really like female Corrin! I love her hair and just general design. She's my favorite female character. Haha. As for males, Silas was my favorite, because even though he's typical pretty boy, I really like typical pretty boy.

You do realize statistically it's around 7-9%. That's 1 in 10 characters. I honestlyyyy doubt having ONE gay (not even really gay-but just bisexual character), is suddenly going to cause widespread panic and hysteria that suddenly the game is low quality. It's not about being politically correct, it's just about having basic representation in video games. It's literally impossible to believe that there's not one character who isn't perfectly straight, so I don't see how that's 'shoehorning' a character in. And they seem to be human? There's foxes and dragons and people who can use magic. Okay. So human.

Oh thank you for mentioning this, because I was about to throw something at somebody who said gay parents can't have biological children. Haha. And then there would be no weird explaining. Kanna/Morgan/whatever would still be your child. And in Zero's case, his daughter still his. And you'd get both. But really. It is kinda concerning. Especially with dragons and magic and time portals, the issue of biology suddenly becomes so paramount to the story. -_- But I like that hair color idea. Or they could just take your hair color. Aka: Kanna is whatever hair color I had, and Zero's daughter being his hair color. Yay, problem solved. And then for stats, it could just be a basic neutral thing, like a villager. But honestly, I agree, it's kinda silly to be that particular about such a small detail, when it would be easier to just use the stats of whomever you marry. And as much as I loved Morgan (and will love Kanna), I honestly just wouldn't mind if child units weren't a thing next time, and we just got endings at the end of the game instead of marriage. But I guess it sorta depends. I can see them keeping this—just hopefully with better writing for the kids next time.

Idk, I really am glad they included it but, SERIOUSLY, how hard was it to include children. I'll do one run-through marrying Zero because how can I NOT. But overall my main file won't have it, because I really want the children. Kanna is too cute. Which will obviously lead me to having my character and Zero always be paired up, despite the fact they won't technically be S support because yeah. I mean, if the next game forgoes the whole children thing, then even better. But if they don't, then my main complaint (more than lack of options) is not getting the kids, which really bummed me out. But yeah, if marriage is still included in the same capacity, then I'm assuming same-sex marriage will continue to be included. I'm assuming next time they might give two options instead of one, but that might be getting ahead of myself.

No, I don't think that. I completely think Mary Sue's are found more often in bad writing. And they are usually, the result of bad writing. I just don't think every example of shitty character writing constitutes someone being called a Mary Sue. Honestly, I do think it gives you a pretty good base. And for the record, I don't have spiel. I was writing long before I took any 'writing classes', and they were actually just electives, which I found super interesting because they doled out rules and names to things I had never even really considered. Granted, I spent most of the class arguing with the professor about how their 'rules' could scarcely apply in a blanket, because writing is more subjective than anything. I don't recall saying anything about writing classes teaching someone HOW to write. I scarcely believe that it can be taught in a classroom. It was MORE the idea, that they gave a pretty clear as you said 'guideline'. I was merely drawing off that 'guideline' of what a Mary Sue is. Obviously there's multiple interpretations of it, and the meaning is going to be a little different to every person. I was mostly just stating the one I adhere to personally. And that I don't define 'universe-bending' as part of the Mary Sue definition. I don't think it's that difficult to grasp. I just think 'universe-bending' is a touch too broad because so many stories do it, but once again, that's how I define it/see it. And lastly, I disagree and agree. I disagree because I do think a Mary Sue can most often be defined by their traits (and how their traits are written). But, I agree that it's not the whole story, because as with everything, there's always exceptions. Just in my experiences reading fan fiction and books, they most often fall back on those traits. Is every character like that a Mary Sue? No. But are most characters like that a Mary Sue? Yes. Edit: Despite all the words, I basically agree with your whole post, honestly. Except the whole 'wrapping a story around them', because I don't really consider that part of being a Mary Sue. And also, I think side characters are perfectly capable of being Mary Sue's (and actually are usually more in danger (imo)), and side characters basically never warp a story around them. Haha.

This. This is the definition of a Mary Sue that I was taught. A story that warps around a character doesn't define a Mary Sue at all, but is just an indication of bad writing. Being a Mary Sue, generally has nothing to do with the story being centered around them, because they're two separate issues. And I agree with you, Kamui isn't really a full character, because they are custom and so their treatment within the story is based upon that. Which is where I think you're wrong. I don't really think there's an 'opinion' of it. Nor do I think it's very ambiguous. There are clear cut lines that define a Mary Sue, and you can learn them in any writing class usually. I know you're not trying to convince anyone of your opinion (and I never said you were?), but you can't really argue either if you disagree on everyone else's interpretation of a Mary Sue that contrasts your own if you're only 'interested in hearing' everyone else's opinions. As you just said, the universe doesn't bend around Ginny, but that's not part of the Mary Sue trope. Universe bending is 'main character syndrome', as is constantly being the center of attention. Mary Sue is mostly defined with traits within a character. Not the outside factors such as the universe revolving around them.

No, I completely agree that IS wanted to make the player feel empowered. I just think we disagree on what a Mary Sue is at the core. XD For instance, in Harry Potter (good work of fiction is debatable), a lot of people considered Ginny a Mary Sue with how she went from scared little sister to powerful, feisty witch without any true development. Suddenly she was lusted over by multiple guys, and good at everything. While I love Ginny (I had a crush on her as a kid), I can completely understand her position as a Mary Sue given how she develops and how she becomes literally 'perfect' in a sense. Granted, I feel as if it's forgivable because the book is from Harry's perspective, with focus on Ron and Hermione, so development can happen off-screen, but it is something I try to avoid in my own novels, without at least hints toward character development. I can't honestly pull another one off the top of my head—I haven't read any good books lately—but I completely see what you're saying. Haha, I never played Origins. I got Inquisition as a Christmas gift--so that was my first time in the series. I don't know about the writing between the two games though! But I don't really think the character is a Mary Sue (or even has that many Mary Sue traits), so much as he has "main character syndrome", in which the plot/characters/story is uniquely revolved around them. But I think his history/backstory/ability to give him his own traits and feelings make him a much more successful self-insert. And on topic, I WAS expecting dialogue trees. I mean....I was HOPING for it. At least a few. I was hoping the initial choice wasn't all of them. I was thinking like...3 different endings in each story. A few choices throughout the game itself, which led us to whatever ending. Disappointed in that, but even without branching options/dialogue, the self-insert still could have been written much better.

I still think your original post was too broad. This one narrows the definition to all that you said, but only in absurd extremes, which in my opinion has more to do with terrible writing, than being an actual Mary Sue character. It's so easy to fall into the line of bad or cliche'd writing, but I think a Mary Sue is a very particular type of character. They are usually present, even in stories with GOOD writing. Either way, I honestly don't think you can compare Dragon Age to Fire Emblem. I mean Dragon Age was literally crafted around the player and offers actual CHOICE. Not one single decision, but hundreds of variations and a limited cast of characters. The more characters you add, the more the story and development decentralizes and resorts to tropes and stereotypes. Dragon Age focuses on a few characters in a large story. I mean hell. Your main character in Dragon Age: Inquisition fits YOUR definition, if you choose ALL the right choices. You can essentially make your character a Mary Sue, as he/she has all the makings of it, with THEIR special power, not to mention they can get everyone to join them and love them with all the things you say. Granted there's so much more nuance in a game like Dragon Age (and so much better writing), that I don't think it's a very fair comparison. I still think Kamui is more the poor result of a bad self-insert done wrong. But as I said, I can still see how he definitely has Mary-Sue qualities, but that's just it. I don't think we can look at the poor writing of OTHER characters to define whether or not Kamui was a Mary Sue.

By this definition, nearly every main character in ANY normal story or video game is a Mary Sue. Idk. As an avid writer (and by default reader), it seems almost every main character can easily fit most of these, because they are such broad strokes. A main character is the main character, and usually the story is revolved around them. And usually, the cast is there to serve the main character, because since the story revolves around the main character, the characters introduced would usually have some major interaction/help toward the main character. People taking a strong liking to the main character sounds more like bad writing. A Mary Sue would be better defined by someone with a wealth of negative traits that all the characters ignore conveniently, OR someone with a wealth of ONLY positive traits without a single nuance. And usually a main character (usually in fantasy) DOES have something meant just for them, or some power only they can wield. It's storytelling. And there's only so much you can do in the confines of any book or game. I think your definition is too broad, because it can be applied to almost anyone. From what I've learned a Mary Sue is usually little miss/mr. perfect, without development because they don't NEED development (read: perfect), and they accomplish ALL their goals without a single struggle or issue, aside from perhaps one conveniently thrown in 'struggle', that has more to do with the side characters than the actual mary sue character themselves. Either way, from what I've seen/read I kinda am halfway. It does sometimes seem like Kamui is a mary sue, but other times I honestly just feel as if Kamui was just REALLY poorly written---which you can always argue are basically the same thing (sometimes they are), but in this case, it seems far more likely they just missed the ball on personality/writing.

Idk. When I was a kid, I always shipped Lyn and Eliwood (I honestly really disliked Hector as a kid). Despite that, I just finished a replay of the game today (My 3DS broke!), and I didn't even REALIZE how much the game pushes Eliwood and Ninian and Lyn and Hector. Despite my staunch opposition, I honestly do think Lyn and Hector are pushed as more 'canon' as the others. Eliwood notes about them a lot and they're ALWAYS going off together (even before I built supports). Lyn and Hector definitely interact more than Lyn and Eliwood--which was sad because my memory of the game as a kid was TOTALLY different and I don't know how I missed all of this). EITHER way, I still like Lyn and Eliwood---but I don't like the idea of Lyn dying so soon, and so honestly, my headcanon is that she ends up with the tactician and the two go off together. (And I had a crush on Lyn as a kid---so there!) And also Rath was recruited so late and was so weak, that it was always frustrating to try to build supports with him and I didn't really care about him at all. Wil was cute--so I guess Lyn/Wil would be my second. For Hector, his personality still irritates me, so personally I like the idea of him just ending up in some random political marriage/villager.

THIS. Not that many people talk about this, but I thought Soleil was a man for so long, because it was literally Inigo's head with long hair. And now with the pink, I can't even look at her seriously. I really liked Inigo, but I want to totally skip his daughter. I wish she did have a bit more feminine features as well, just aesthetically. Otherwise, I don't think I HATE any character-though some annoy me slightly more than others (the children clones-aside from Matoi-Who doesn't look identical, and if Luna is her mother at least makes SENSE as to why she looks like that).

I completely agree with this. I really would love full voice acting. I think it would make the characters more powerful and meaningful, than their repeated lines for everything. I've never quite understood why people get so upset over supports. I just think people are overly sensitive, because that support was fine. It's not like this mirrors real life, and considering the time period (medieval), it's not even that surprising. It's kinda silly people are so easily offended, and then write off a character completely because of one or two lines. But yeah, better writing in general would be nice-specifically if they reduced the amount of supports as basically everyone has talked about.

I love most of their colors, except Soleil's pink. Maybe it's because she has a man face, and I think the pink just looks so WEIRD on her more masculine features. Otherwise, all the kids are so cute. XD

Hmm, I'm actually kinda partial to the yellow--wish it was a touch more gold, and then throw in some nice navy. I also wouldn't have minded a royal purple with a black/blue trim.

But he issss so hot. XD I think we need more scantily clad men. But I don't have a problem with most fanservice, unless it gets ridiculous, and this game has a fair amount of females that go across the spectrum from normally clothed to Charlotte(I think that's her name-the blonde one with boobs). So it's not too bad.

I agree. I'm interested to see who else is out there. And Eliwood and Lyn are canon, what are you talking about?? Haha. But I agree, forced pairings are whatever at the end of the day, though I might have to do ONE game where I marry her, just to see how it is.

Wait...but this was a good article?? It actually just tried to clear up the whole mess, rather than fanning the flames. The headline could be better though. -_- But that's typical clickbait. But those Gunter/Kamui supports......omg. My heart. That's soooo sweet, and I love the backstory they put into it.

But honestly, if you just throw in a line about surrogacy, this ALL goes away, and there's no need to think this hard about it. Adoption is illogical—fine—but come on. Surrogacy is completely viable, and throws back in biology (because you know, that's SO important when there are dragons, reincarnation and a weird time flow). I still think going to Nyx was my FAVORITE idea. XD But honestly, there are ways to get around it, that don't require THAT much thought.

Ommmg. No words. XD It's....well....I don't even know how to describe it. Zero is just such a weird character--but he wass being suggestive from the beginning so I guess...it's....semi-okay? I don't really have a problem with it, but it's just strange. But then again, a lot of supports have weird jumps from talking to romance that make no sense. Still, I like the little background into Camilla they gave. Small parts like that are what make supports good, imo. A little more characterization surrounding all the...innuendos. Haha.