Medeus

1. From what I remember, IS stuck to the first draft pretty rigidly, which is a bad idea in writing. First drafts tend to be flawed because it's mostly getting the general idea down on the paper, and that's why it's usually proofread to help pick out issues that need to be fixed as well as fleshing out certain points. Looking at Fates' story, there are a good number of points in the story that seemed like they could've worked in a later draft, but weren't properly looked over and fleshed out first, which contributed to issues with the general plot. 2. The Avatar character, they can work in stories, but the story goes too far to bend over backwards for Corrin for it to really work. Corrin isn't fully allowed to grow or be wrong, and in a story that's supposed to have the character live with a major decision that results in the deaths of those they care about, the character shouldn't be as stagnant as they are. 3. The story should've been focused more on the personal conflict, making Anankos the ultimate puppetmaster ended up removing a lot of personal agency that the main characters have, and his influence ends up leading to things like Gooron, which makes things even worse in that regard. In a story about the decision between choosing blood or bonds over the other in a war, I feel the personal conflict should've been more at the forefront, but ultimately the use of the "Golden" route meant that the writers had to get an easy target to rally against. 4. Lack of worldbuilding in the main story. One thing I will give other FE stories is that even at their weakest, they usually try to flesh out the world around their stories so that you get a sense of what's going on and how it affects the different countries and characters. Fates' story doesn't give enough depth to the countries and areas that appear in the plot, with them usually serving as a Point A to go through before you get to Point B. The continent itself doesn't even have a name, which is a notable oversight since it gives off a lack of care towards the world you're supposed to be invested in. 5. The three route system, which created issues like plot contrivances and stripping out important information to necessitate buying the other routes. The Bubble Curse is easily the biggest example of this as it's definitely done to make Revelation important because it's the only route that addresses Valla and its involvement in the conflict. However, by doing that, it means at least five characters knew about what was going on and couldn't say anything, meaning they allowed a major conflict to happen and cause unnecessary deaths in the two other routes. It essentially forced the characters to act in a way that doesn't make sense to the player, and bog down the story as a result. Similarly, elements like Takumi's possession, Gooron, and the like are also aspects of the plot that are important in understanding what's going on in both Birthright and Conquest's plot, but are shoved off into the other route(s), so they can't fully stand on their own two feet since pieces that you'd need for that aren't available to you. The plots I feel should've been more self-contained as they need to stand on their own two feet first, you can't make anything good without a strong base, and neither of the three routes really have strong enough bases to hold up the overall plot.

Setsuna: Neutral on her, I do like her design though. Soleil: There are a few things I like about her, I like the idea of having another character that's implied to be Bi, I like her love of cute things, I like her confidence, and I like her voice and design. Her problem comes from her supports, with one of the main issues being the fact that when she has a bad support, it's ​bad. ​JP!Foleo, Ophelia, and Ignatius' C support are good examples of this as she's shown to get into certain character's (or NPCs in the latter's case) personal space, show no respect for it, and not back off when told to. It's clear harassment with these examples and her lack of understanding these boundaries make her come off as pretty dislikeable in the supports. She also can be a bit gimmicky in her other supports, which makes her somewhat repetitive as a character (which, for the same reasons as Nina, is a shame since she has pretty interesting traits that are not explored enough). So she's a character that has a good amount of potential that gets wasted due to mishandling her in the supports, if they developed her other aspects better and rewrote her problem supports, I think she'd be a much better character for it. Reina: It's really nice to have an older character among the cast and she gets a bit of depth from her Corrin support, she really wishes she got more then one support though and it makes no sense that she doesn't have one with Orochi at least.

Kaze: Nice guy, but a bit bland I have to admit. Story-wise, his reason for joining you in Nohr is pretty poor since Corrin's actions on the surface do nothing to give peace to his country and only cause pain. It's implied that there's more to it in his supports (guilt for allowing Corrin's capture), but even so, it's still not a strong enough reason for him to stay on board with the invasion. At the very least, he should've had the A support thing in Conquest's route as well as it would've made a lot of sense for him to defect back to Hoshido unless Corrin built up a strong relationship for him to maintain his trust. Azama: Sometimes I find his interactions funny, sometimes I just want to jump into the game and slap him across the face. Needless to say, he's a character that I have mixed feelings on. Gunter: Has a pretty interesting backstory with Garon that could've been expanded on, but can't because Corrinsexual. D.C. Douglas is awesome as always though, and he makes for a nice support unit for Corrin. Azura: Horrible plot-wise, there's not much I can say on her that hasn't already been said many times over in other threads on the board critiquing her role. Support-wise, she's pretty good, she has a nice set of interactions with the other characters and she comes off as pretty likeable in them. Other then that, she has a great VA as Rena Strober does a good job portraying the character and bringing the song to the English audience. She's also great as a support unit, though she should be kept as far away from combat as possible since she'll die if an enemy so much as brushes past her. Mozu: She has one of the most consistent set of supports out of all of the characters, with a few even making up some of my favorite supports in the game. As a unit, she's meh due to her poor start, but she's fun to use. Yukimura: The only thing I remember about him is his Critical Quote and his rather brutal Bath Towel comment towards Corrin, other then that, he just exists.

Nina: I like her design, I think Natalie Lander did a good job with the character, and I liked the little Robin Hood thing she had going. However, I can't say I like her as her Yaoi Fangirl thing almost overshadows everything else about the character. I also didn't care for how she stalks some of her male targets like Dwyer, which pushed her over the line into creepy territory for me. Dwyer: Meh.

Hisame: The only thing I really remember about him is the outcry about the pickles addition, which after reading some of his supports, I realized was just exaggeration and otherwise he was relatively fine. Other then that though, I can't say he left an impression on me, but he's OK from what I remember. Camilla: I have a complicated relationship with Camilla. When I first saw her, my first thought was "oh, here's the token fanservice character, shouldn't expect much from her," but then I read the Niles support during the wait for the game and I got hopeful because it gave a neat perspective to her character. Then I got the game and that tanked once I read through most of her supports and interactions with other characters. I think my biggest gripe is that she has some wasted potential, she has a backstory with the concubines that potentially could've led to some interesting development, she's supposed to be the mother figure among her siblings, and she's a royal, which should give her a good amount of story presence. Does most of that lead into anything? Not really. The concubine wars only pops up twice for her character, once with Niles, the other in the DLC with Azura, otherwise it doesn't come up at all. Even with that in mind, it's just a backstory dump that happens in the A support, so while it gives us a perspective, it doesn't lead into anything bigger with the character (the Azura convo is actually kind of neat, which pisses me off even more that it's not in the actual game). Her motherly characterization ends up being horribly overshadowed by her lust and overdoting over for the Avatar, so it just comes off as incest pandering rather then a true role for the character, and she accomplishes little in the actual story aside from a few moments. She does have a few good points such as with Beruka in the DLC, but then you have things like her comments towards Selena and Hinoka and she heads right back into creepy territory. So at her core, she really is a fanservice driven character meant to pander to the Avatar, and it's a shame that it had to be that way. I see a character that could've been handled a lot better, but she was not allowed the chance to be much more then what she appeared to be. To her credit though, she's a great unit. Izana: Fun guy, shame the story kills him off so pointlessly.

Benny: He plays into another trope and can be pretty gimmicky, but it's hard not to like the guy. He's genuinely a very sweet guy and I just want to give him a big hug whenever I read one of his supports. As a unit, he suffers from the typical issues of a knight (ex. low move), which makes putting him on my team a bit hard to do since he tends to fall behind, but at least to his credit he does his job well as a tank. Arthur: Yeah he plays into a trope, yeah he repeats the bad luck and justice shtick, and yeah it's kind of hypocritical that he's all about justice while being a part of a nation that's a bunch of war-mongering sadists, but I still love him. He's a very enjoyable character to me because he's such a fun character, I like how he's trying to be a hero to everyone, I like that despite his bad luck, he shrugs it off and keeps doing what he wants to do, and above all, I like how much fun the dub and voice actor have in their portrayal of the character. He's an all around nice character, and even if I'll admit he lacks the depth of others around him or from other games, that doesn't deter me from liking him nonetheless. Iago: And again, another Saturday morning cartoon villain to criticize, I really wonder what happened with these guys. He could've been a very interesting character as at his heart, he's supposed to be another Gharnef archetype, a manipulator that works behind the scenes for their own goals, but he is terrible at it. He doesn't have any goals for himself, so he's just another lackey of the evil king doing evil just because, his schemes are largely ineffective, and he doesn't deserve either names of the Shakespearean characters that he draws from since he has nothing of theirs that made them memorable to even modern day audiences. He's just another lame villain that goes 'muhahaha!' at the end of each chapter, and unlike other villains who do evil for the hell of it, he doesn't have the charm to keep himself afloat.

Yet we have characters like Henry, Shinon, and a few other characters that are morally ambiguous and/or jerkasses, yet none of them are nearly as unpopular as Peri is. You're making a strawman argument here if your immediate assumption is that all characters that are not paragons are deemed bad characters by the fandom when the reality is their popularity fluctuates based on the character. Peri is disliked for other reasons then her moral ambiguity, and treating it as such is doing a disservice to those who have tried to clearly voiced their dislike for the character. Also, like Thane said, I've never seen anyone in the thread say that those that like Peri should be shunned for their opinions. In general, everyone is just sticking to explaining why they dislike the character and leaving it at that.

Orochi - I don't really use her and I don't remember her supports, so I won't say anything about her. Mitama - I like her Haiku gimmick, I'm a sucker for them and the supports have some good fun with it. Charlotte - She surprised me, I didn't expect much from her, but I ended up liking her since she shows some depth and character in her interactions. The only thing I'd knock against her is that sometimes those supports can be a bit repetitive, but at least she can be memorable with her "gimmick" compared to some other characters. Odin - I feel about him pretty much the same way I feel about Owain, a lot of fun to read about from supports when he gets into his mode, but he has good interactions with the rest of the cast when needed. So he's all around a good character, shame that Revelation screws him over so much. Zola - Oh hey, it's that one villain that actually gets development and screentime outside of "Muhahaha, I'm evil!". I honestly wouldn't have expected this guy to have the most development, but here we are, and what he gets is pretty good since he actually manages to leave an impression as a result. Honestly, he should've been what the developers aimed for in terms of presence for their villains, not what we got from the three stooges. Peri - Probably my least favorite character in the game, her gimmick is not cute or funny as she blatantly kills people for fun and even attacks allies (poor Felicia), she makes almost anyone that supports her into an inconsistent idiot (special mention to Xander here), and her backstory does little to save her considering it only pops up once and isn't given the gravity needed to be nearly as effective. The only thing she'll ever marry in my playthroughs is the bench because I just don't like her with any other character. Midori - *Insert Chica Verde joke* She's cute, but that's all I can say about her.

Leo: A great character, he has a good set of supports with only a few dipping into bad quality since he has good interactions with most of the characters, his inferiority complex through being stuck in his sibling's shadow is actually done well and doesn't come off as annoying, and has a good set of believable strengths and faults that he tries to work with. Additionally, I love his voice actors as they really do a great job with their character and it helps make Leo even more likeable. My only issue with him is that as a unit, he can be pretty middling, he isn't bad, but he does stand out as being one of the weaker siblings in the game due to his stats and mediocre Royal weapon. Hayato: The only thing I like about Hayato is that he's useful in Revelation and he has Ben Disken as a voice actor (whocomes with a set of good Critical quotes), other then that I just find him to be annoying. Hinata: Neutral on him, I don't have much of an opinion. Silas: Kind of mixed on him, I do like that he can be loyal to the characters around him, but his friendship with Corrin feels a bit hollow. He's the self-proclaimed best friend of the character and the game doesn't let us forget it as a good chunk of his big moments and interactions do involve talking about the character, and it doesn't feel as strong a relationship for as much as the game play it ups. Additionally, some of his supports can have him come off as (unintentionally at times) a jerk to others around him, with Kagero and Hana sticking out to me as notable examples of that. He does apologize in some cases like with the former, but it still comes off poorly for him to be that judgmental to others. Hans: I used to think he was a generic, ambitious villain, and in most ways he is still in that archetype, but he had moments where he shown he could've been more. He's surprisingly courteous to Corrin in some of his conversations with them such as Conquest Chapter 13 and 14, and he shows a level of respect for Xander in Revelation, even believing he's one of the most loyal soldiers Nohr has (though he's proven wrong after his death in Chapter 16). So he does have elements of being more then just a generic villain, and I feel that if the game actually paid attention to better establishing those traits, he would've been more memorable as a villain. Unfortunately, that's not the case, and what we got was mostly just a Saturday Morning Cartoon villain that kicks puppies alongside his two besties.

I really do have to agree with the lack of worldbuilding in Fates. While Fire Emblem has never been huge with its story, it at least tried to build a world for you to get invested in and you can remember the countries, where they are, and the political atmosphere of it. Fates' world feels so hollow because it doesn't care to explain much about it outside of spare moments in the plot and certain support conversations. As a result, it's hard to get fully invested in the game's world because it doesn't feel like it cares enough about it to make you care, it's just Corrin going from Point A to B to accomplish whatever the plot demands and then they move on to the next area. It also doesn't help that a lot of the focus falls on Corrin, so a lot of elements aren't developed unless they're involved in some way. Lets call it the continent of Fateslandia, the land of nolore. ​

I wouldn't suggest it, at least not on its own. In Fates, they're just an extra unit that don't have some of the same benefits regular units would have, so they're not the best characters to have around and not worth the investment. If you have other games like Codename: STEAM and Smash, then it may be more worth it since you're getting DLC across multiple games rather then just one, but otherwise I'd give it a skip.

Kagero: Great unit, her growths fit her base class well and she's usually my go-to ninja. Character-wise, she falls flat as she's pretty bland, her painting niche doesn't save her at all. Kana: Generic cute child, nothing more.

#1: Laslow/Inigo - Haven't got the chance to really use him since as a unit, he's kind of middling at best. From what I remember of his supports, I do like what I see of Laslow more then what I remember of Inigo as there seems to be some maturity to him, but I won't pretend to be an expert on him. #2: Shigure - One of the better child units in that he feels balanced in terms of what his character is supposed to be, but like with Laslow, I don't really use him since I don't care much for the kids. #3: Selkie - To be honest, I don't really like her. She's very one note in her gimmick, and while I don't mind one note characters if they're done decently enough, her gimmick is very overplayed in her supports and each time I always found it to be pretty grating. #4: Flora - A good character that's limited by being a Corrinsexual, she shows a good amount of depth in what we do get of her and it's a shame that the game doesn't allow her more times to shine due to how the support system works. I really would've liked to have learned more about her, but I can't complain about what we did get of her. #5: Scarlet - Probably the most screwed over character in the entire game. Ignoring the whole unrequited love angle that IS loves to push, she has two routes where she gets horribly killed, one of those routes she happens to be one of the few characters that isn't permanently recruited and dies pointlessly, and she's stuck to being a Corrinsexual with not much else in terms of story presence or otherwise to keep her afloat like Flora. It's really a shame she got treated this way as I love her design and I do like the ideas behind the character, it's just seems like IS loved using her more as their punching bag. #6: Selena/Severa - I didn't like Severa that much in Awakening, so seeing her supports in Fates made her more likeable to me. She has gotten a good amount of development from the Awakening days, and she's more amicable with her allies, which makes her "tsundere" gimmick more tolerable. So she's a stronger character here I felt and I ended up liking more of her supports here then in the previous game. I also liked her design as the mercenary outfit in general has a nice design in Fates and I do like how her character fits in it. #7: Nyx - Never used her in the English version, only read some of her supports from the Japanese version, so I won't say a word. #8: Takumi - A really good character overall, he has a good amount of traits, flaws, and strengths that make him relatable and likeable as a person. My only issue with him is his story role in Conquest as he has every reason to be embittered towards Corrin, but the game turns him into a hate monster for it, but I blame that more on Corrin and the writing then him, which brings me to... #9: Corrin - Ugh, he's not as bad as Kris, but that's not saying much. The game goes out of its way to bend over backwards for him, he doesn't develop even when he makes a mistake (such as the Anthony subplot), he's ridiculously coddled and worshipped by everyone around him, and too easily forgiven for actions that should leave other characters reasonably pissed at him. Support-wise, both Corrins are pretty bland to me as they have to be able to marry everyone, so they end up being very vanilla as a result since they can't have too much that goes against the preferences of the player and their potential partners. The only thing I like about him is the Dragon Fang skill and the class, though the dragon form is still a bit odd to me. #10: Sophie - Avel swallows up most of whatever character she has, so I don't care about her. #11: Shura - Another Corrinsexual that shows potential, but is limited by the system. Not much else for me to say, though like with the other two, there are elements that I like about him. #12: Saizo - Pretty well rounded I'd say, he can be a bit of an ass, but his other traits are pretty likeable and I do like the depth he shows in supports like Beruka's. Speaking of supports, in general, they are also pretty good as he bounces off well with the majority of the cast with only a couple stinkers here and there. Top that off with a good design and he's probably my favorite of the ninjas overall. #13: Velouria - I love her design, it's a nice nod to Little Red Riding Hood and it's pretty adorable on its own. As a character, her gimmick can be a bit much for the same reasons as Keaton's (and she falls into that trap more then he does), I have mixed feelings on her Electra complex, and she can be a bit rude at times, though I do like her bluntness in some supports. Overall though, she's OK, one of the child units I like. #14: Fuga - Outside of using him as a unit (a role of which he's pretty neat in), I don't know much about him as a character. #15: Subaki - He's very dull to me, the fact that he takes cues from Cordelia is already not winning him favors from me, but I can't recall too many supports that left an impression on me either. He just comes off as pretty bland, which is a shame since having a male Pegasus Knight has been a want of the fandom for years. #16: Hinoka - It was said in an interview that she was not intended to originally be in the game, and looking at her character, I can see that. I do like the idea of a character that works hard to protect their siblings, but Hinoka is very bland as she barely has a story role and we don't get too much of her character outside of little tidbits here and there. So she ultimately comes off as very flat as a person, and it's hard for me to really keep interest in her despite her supposed importance of being a royal. Also, she loses points for that Saizo support. #17: Niles - A pretty decent character, he has a backstory, but he's not fully defined by it and you can understand his character without it, he has a quirk, but it's done in a way that allows him to be more human, and he has some pretty good supports with other characters. I'm kind of iffy on him on some of the other aspects of his character, but I still like him overall. #18: Felicia - Oh poor Felicia, whenever I have to point to repetitive supports, she's one of the characters at the top of my list. She has some potential as there are little things like the Flora chapter, but it's few and far in-between and doesn't go anywhere, as she's a very one-note as she revolves around being a klutz, and that trait is present in a huge amount of her supports. It also doesn't help that due to the support system, she has more then most characters on virtue of being a neutral unit and she can't grow out of said trait since she "resets" each time you support another character. So she ends up being a very repetitive character that is stagnant and isn't allowed to evolve, so she's very forgettable to me as a result.

I like Saizo, his supports are varied and overall great to read due to having a good background and bouncing off well with other characters, and he's a good character to play around with as a unit. He's easily one of my favorites from Hoshido, and if I can, I usually try to squeeze him onto my team in a new playthrough.

Benny if you're not grinding, Effie has a pretty bad start that's hard to work through without special attention, Benny can at least get going due to his bulk.

I personally liked the voice acting, there are probably only three characters that I can think of that I completely disliked out of the cast.

No, while I liked the development Severa, Inigo, and Owain recieved, I didn't like how they were thrown into the story as it caused even more issues with the plot. Plus, none of the kids in Fates I feel are as likeable as them, so I wouldn't want to see them brought back for the next game.

A hunting I will go~

On the note of the Avatar, one thing I'll add to the conversation is that I think another issue is the lack of a proper Number 2/Mentor character. In Thracia, one thing I really liked about August is that while he was there to support Lief, he didn't hold back when Lief needed a lesson or coddle him when he made a mistake. He was there to be the word of wisdom, and he was also there to challenge Lief's perceptions (ex. telling him about Lenster's tariffs and the effect it has on Thracia) and question him on his bad decisions (ex. blindly charging on Alster), and I feel it helped Lief grow as a character to have someone who wasn't afraid to do that for him. The same happens with characters like Soren, Ranulf, Jagen in the original Mystery (not so much Kris worship Emblem), and the like. They would help their respective lords, but they also weren't afraid to say something contradictory to them, and it helped having characters provide a second perspective that wasn't demonized for it. Corrin didn't really have that, the story does give the opportunity for characters like Azura and the siblings to do it, but none of them are really allowed to fully evolve into that role. They suffer from either not having enough screentime, or (as mentioned before) their screentime only being used to further the plot. So instead of a character that's there to say "you know bro, that's probably not a good idea", we instead have characters that are just there to coddle Corrin or be plot devices. Corrin (and any lords that follow his example, which hopefully doesn't happen) I feel would benefit more from the above because he already has more then enough people praising him for the littlest thing, he can use someone who can catch his bad decisions and help him grow from their experiences.

Honestly, as Rezzy said, would've been better as a moblie camp if they really wanted to add this feature, because that would keep the proper progression of the plot without making it feel disjointed. It does feel a bit off when you just complete an important event in the story, just to transport into this pocket dimension that everyone acts happy-go-lucky in without a care for what they just experienced. You can't really tell me that events like the fall of a key fortress in Hoshido or raiding the castle of Nohr doesn't at least get some of them talking about it. I do feel that, for what it does do, it does well enough, but I will admit that I would've liked something that fit in better then what we got. I hope that whatever comes next is better integrated, or at least they don't try to justify it poorly.

One idea I was thinking of is that maybe what could be done is to split the votes into categories for design, unit, and character. Then, they each would have two subcategories where you would vote for a number of characters (lets say 10) that are your favorite and least favorite for each. Based on their placement, they could also get a certain number of points that would be collected and the total sum used to fully place the character on the final list. With that method, you could get a gauge of who's more popular and for what reason while still allowing characters that you do like to still get a vote, they just don't get as much support as your top favorite. It still would need some ironing out since you'd still have a number of characters in the middle unaccounted for, but I think it would be a good start to get deeper into the meaning behind the votes. I have to agree, while I don't completely disagree with what they said, their post didn't really feel like it was made with the intent to properly contrast both characters. ZeroxElise is one such example of that as I remember that support got a lot of criticism in the early days, but I didn't see the negative aspects of that support mentioned at all in the post, same with examples like ZeroxPeri. I can understand having a preference here, but I can't say I felt both sides were properly represented, especially when the poster has a clear bias against the localization.

Geez, Yukimura's was brutal. I love how both Azama and Niles are ready to go model for you, and the questions Anna's brings up for wanting an apparently suggestive item for her stores.

Selena's wasn't surprising, but I'm happy the ones that I was rooting for still did well and got a decent chunk of support. Surprised at Sakura as I expected some of her other supports to be higher then what they ended up being. Saizo winning Beruka's is a bit surprising due to the localized C support debate, but it seems like the rest of the support still won over a lot of people.

Hoshido: Mostly what I expected, and I'm fine with most of the pairings (ex. RyomaxRinkah). In terms of the ones that caught my eye, TakumixOboro was very expected and I'm happy with that result. Saizo I was hoping Sakura would do a bit better, but I can understand Kagero taking it since there's a smaller age gap (if any at all) and they had a previous relationship that could be built off of. Subaki, I'm also one of the few that prefers him and Selena with other characters (Nyx for the former, Laslow, Odin, and Keaton for the latter), it's a nice support, but the whole Caledori thing throws it off for me. The only one that really baffled me though was Kaden and Setsuna. From what I remember, it's not a bad support, but I don't remember too much about it sticking out to me either, at least compared to some of their other options. Of course, there could be something I'm missing with it and I'm sure fans of this support could give me another perspective on it. Nohr: The top spots were pretty much all what I would expect from the bunch, so I can't really comment on many of them. With that said, I'm happy to see XanderxCharlotte, KeatonxMozu, BennyxBeruka, NilesxCamilla, and ArthurxAzura do well as those were the pairings I liked the most for those respective characters. I'm curious to see how the female polls turn out as some like Charlotte won for multiple guys (in her case, Kaden (tie), Xander, and Benny), so it'll be interesting to see which ones wins out over the others in their cases.

Another vote for Kaden's laugh, it's music to my ears. For Keaton, I like most of his lines, but I ended up going with "Just in time for Dinner!"