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chococoke

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    13/11 Attacks on Paris

    in Serious Discussion

    Posted · Edited by chococoke

    you're more likely to get killed by a gangbanger or by a shooter on a college campus than by an IS terrorist

    Great. And I have a much greater chance of dying in a car crash on any given day. Maybe I want to take as many precautions necessary to keep people safe here. Again, sorry to disappoint, but refusing refugees entry here doesn't just simply condemn them to death. There are other places they can go.

    If anyone would like to actually talk about the points I've raised and not insult me, I'll gladly respond. Otherwise, I'm finished posting here. I've made my views apparent, and I've tried to be as reasonable as possible when debating this point. I'm not here to ignore facts. In fact, the points I've brought up to support my views have been ignored.

    Another point I made previously that was ignored is that the U.S. has more problems than other countries taking in refugees. No western country is worse when it comes to veteran care and reintegration from society. If we can't even take care of the men and women who keep the country safe, why the hell are we taking in people from other countries and taking care of them? It's mind-boggling to me.

    Again, I believe the best way to remedy this situation is to take the fight to ISIS as soon as possible. We can take as many refugees as we want, but then what? We just keep dropping bombs, more refugees are "created," and the cycle continues.

    Given the airplane that was just blown up, we can only assume that IS has sympathizers that helped smuggle a bomb onto this plane in Egypt. In today's post-9/11 reality, how does that bode for the rest of the world? You think an airport would willingly hire a terrorist sympathizer? I'm gonna go with no. I'm going to repeat for the third or fourth time: we blew up a hospital based on false intelligence. But no, I bet that was an aberration and everything else coming out of Syria is real information we can trust.

    Anyway, that's all I'm going to say on this matter. Flame me, call me stupid, whatever floats your boat. Thanks to everyone who's been respectful while debating with me. I understand and support the fact that topics like this get people riled up, it's an insanely tough situation created by people who live and breathe pure evil.

    EDIT: just read a quote by the director of the FBI saying it is impossible to vet every single Syrian refugee. Do my concerns still make me stupid? I don't care at this point

    13/11 Attacks on Paris

    in Serious Discussion

    Posted

    you've completely dominated the topic of discussion in this thread for pages on end on absolutely no ground. the only argument you've essentially made is that something that has never happened and is so unlikely to happen that it surely never will is possible, and potentially dangerous, so we should cut the lifelines of thousands of innocent people escaping the horrible situation in their country (that your country helped create!), all while ignoring data and counterarguments completely because hey, you just want americans to be safe, right?

    So unlikely to happen that is surely never will, huh?

    I'm not ignoring facts. I've said quite a few times now that this situation is unlike any that's taken place before, so we can't look at past numbers and say "well, there's no way this will ever happen."

    If terrorists were to attempt to sneak in through Mexico, where would they settle? Where would they blend in to society without being noticed?

    Look at ISIS' last two attacks. Both the blown up Russian airliner and Paris attacks were attributed to the bombing runs being performed by Russia and France. Why do I think that ISIS really wants to damage American lives? In their English-language magazine, they refer to non-Russian airstrikes as the "U.S.-led Western Coalition."

    As for making it through the vetting process, I already brought up an example of the U.S. airstrike on the hospital. If the U.S. received what it thought was information credible enough to actually bomb a live hospital, you think that a few agencies couldn't be duped by members working together to get someone through the system?

    Anyway, I personally believe it comes down to what you find plausible. I find the threat to be credible enough to refuse entry to Syrian refugees. Why does that sentence them to death? If the refugee process is so much simpler in other countries, why would they not be able to enter there instead of the U.S.?

    I'm aware that my country essentially caused the current situation. That's why my country needs to help rectify it. My original question before all of this was, after you end the so-called "caliphate," how long does the propaganda continue? There's no way to tell until you actually go in and cut off the head.

    So, yeah, I guess I'm dominating conversation. I tend to react negatively when people call me names or insinuate I'm stupid because I have a different opinion about something. If what I'm saying is so stupid, ignoring me shouldn't be too hard, right?

    13/11 Attacks on Paris

    in Serious Discussion

    Posted

    I hesitate when it comes to looking at past situations because there has never been a scenario like this where terrorists even had the opportunity for deception in this manner. This includes your reference to 9/11, because security wasn't anywhere close to what it is now. I've read your articles on the process, and yes, it seems remarkably stringent. I just don't doubt the ability of people with nefarious intentions to fool the system. I mean, the U.S. bombed a fucking hospital last month due to "intelligence" from "allies" that it was a terrorist hideout. What if someone vouching for a refugee to one of the 7-8 intelligence agencies doing the vetting is a member of ISIS? There's just no way to tell.

    Believe it or not, I'm not completely lacking in empathy. I know what the consequences would be of not accepting these refugees. I just worry for the safety of innocent people in this country, as well. Maybe I'm too cautious for my own good. Good thing it isn't my call to make, right?

    13/11 Attacks on Paris

    in Serious Discussion

    Posted

    Sorry to disappoint you, but us finding different levels of plausibility in a hypothetical scenario doesn't make me wrong. So sneaking into Mexico is easier. But if said hypothetical fighter submits themselves to the vetting process (which might as well just be a wait list) then they are brought here and placed in a community, and are essentially excused from any suspicion because of their refugee status.

    I already said it, but might as well repeat myself: if fighters sneak in through Mexico, how are they going to just show up in communities and blend in without raising suspicion? In fact, if these fighters are caught at the boarder, they have no alibi (would refugees have enough money to fly from Syria to Mexico and then cross into the U.S. on foot?)

    In my scenario, fighters just have to get through the vetting wait list. Seems a lot simpler/less risky than sneaking in through Mexico

    13/11 Attacks on Paris

    in Serious Discussion

    Posted · Edited by chococoke

    All of the 8 (confirmed) terrorists involved with the attacks on Paris all have European passports. So in short, they had nothing to do with the Syrian refugees.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-attacks-the-eight-terror-suspects-named-so-far-all-have-eu-passports-a6738821.html

    This stigma the U.S. has against the Syrian refugees as a result of this attack on Paris is quite uncalled for, yet understandable. When external World problems start poking holes in America's perfect little bubble and the risk of deadly foreign objects invading their secure space becomes real, I suppose it's only normal for the inhabitants of this bubble to become scared and uneasy.

    Is the investigation closed less than a week after the attacks? Do you know for a fact that there wasn't a single person involved with the operation who pretended to be a refugee?

    Also, I'm not going around saying that all Syrian refugees are terrorists. Do you think I'm under the impression that the U.S. Is perfect? LOL quite the opposite really. We have MANY problems to deal with already, more than most western nations.

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