Espinosa

[spoiler=see teams here] Carmine's team: vs. Quintessence's team Turn 4A. vs. Quint's Leo (Brynhildr) attacks Carmine's Effie (Silver Bow)! 24 dmg 91% hit 16% crit (76) (36 69 92) Effie receives 24/55 damage! Effie counterattacks! 27 dmg 83% hit 0% crit (52 9 20) Leo receives 27/50 damage! [Effie str/skl-2] Carmine Quint Xander 0/55 Azura 0/50 Charlotte 66/70 [str/skl-1] Elise 45/45 Effie 31/55 [str/skl-2] Xander 0/60 Hinoka 60/60 Camilla 0/60 Saizo 55/55 Leo 23/50 Carmine's turn.

[spoiler=see teams here] Carmine's team: vs. Quintessence's team Turn 3B. vs. Effie's Amaterasu: Charlotte 52 -> 66 HP Carmine's Charlotte (Silver Axe) attacks Quint's Camilla (Silver Axe)! 34 dmg 100% hit 46% crit (43 5 89) Camilla receives 34/60 damage! Camilla counterattacks! 28 dmg 19% hit 13% crit (54) (83 17 10) Camilla misses! Charlotte attacks again! (2 50 34) Critical hit! Camilla receives 26/60 damage! [Charlotte str/skl-2] Camilla is KO'd! Carmine Quint Xander 0/55 Azura 0/50 Charlotte 66/70 [str/skl-2] Elise 45/45 Effie 55/55 [str/skl-1] Xander 0/60 Hinoka 60/60 Camilla 0/60 Saizo 55/55 Leo 50/50 Quint acts now.

[spoiler=see teams here] Carmine's team: vs. Quintessence's team Turn 3A. vs. Quint's Camilla (Silver Axe) attacks Carmine's Xander (Dual Katana)! Xander activates Vantage! 11 dmg 1% hit 20% crit (93 58 17) Xander misses! Camilla counterattacks! 24 dmg 100% hit 0% crit (10) Vengeance Xander receives 18/55 damage! Xander is KO'd! Camilla activates Lifetaker! 60 -> 60 HP [Camilla str/skl-2] Carmine Quint Xander 0/55 Azura 0/50 Charlotte 52/70 Elise 45/45 Effie 55/55 [str/skl-1] Xander 0/60 Hinoka 60/60 Camilla 60/60 [str/skl-2] Saizo 55/55 Leo 50/50 Carmine's turn.

[spoiler=see teams here] Carmine's team: vs. Quintessence's team Turn 2B. vs. Effie's Amaterasu: Xander 7 -> 18 HP; Charlotte 38 -> 52 HP Carmine's Effie (Silver Bow) attacks Quint's Azura (Silver Yumi)! 63 dmg 88% hit 13% crit (33 60 70) Azura receives 50/50 damage! Azura is KO'd! [Effie str/skl-2] Carmine Quint Xander 18/55 Azura 0/50 Charlotte 52/70 Elise 45/45 Effie 55/55 [str/skl-2] Xander 0/60 Hinoka 60/60 Camilla 60/60 Saizo 55/55 Leo 50/50 Quint's turn.

[spoiler=see teams here] Carmine's team: vs. Quintessence's team Turn 2A. vs. Quint's Azura (Silver Yumi) attacks Carmine's Xander (Dual Katana)! 13 dmg 90% hit 0% crit (13 14 49) Xander receives 13/55 damage! Carmine Quint Xander 7/55 Azura 50/50 Charlotte 38/70 Elise 45/45 Effie 55/55 Xander 0/60 Hinoka 60/60 Camilla 60/60 Saizo 55/55 Leo 50/50 Carmine's turn.

If it strikes twice, it's a brave weapon. A lot of tomes are an equivalent to the melee weapons in their effect, e.g. Ragnarok is basically tomes' silver weapon with the same penalty, rank and self-debuff. And so is Rabbit Spirit I guess. Anyway, I'm on it now.

True, but right now we're figuring out the parents' meta where you're allowed to have an A+ friend but can't marry. Pavise!Master Ninja is a possibility for parents if they can marry too, considering many prospect Ninja are Nohrians who can marry Effie, and Rinkah can marry Benny.

Let's take a look at the Spear Master class today! Class HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res acc avo crt cev ranks Spear Master 60 34 25 33 32 29 30 29 64 62 24 24 s-lc Max Stat rankings: (41 classes total counting DLC) #18 HP, #9 Str, #25 Mag, #9 Skl, #17 Spd, #27 Lck, #19 Def, #28 Res Innate bonuses: crit/cevo+10 (already taken into account in the above code) As we can see, Spear Masters have well-rounded stats with few stats soaring particularly high (skl and str can be pointed out as quite high, though strength is considerably lower than, say, Zerker's or General's), but at the same time there are no glaring weaknesses either. 32 spd without any options of increasing it with the equipped weapon (like katana and shuriken for classes who can use these weapons) is only 3 spd lower than the max (manifested through SM/Ninja), but add Ninja's +2 AS from most Shuriken and you're already getting doubled, and SMs can also double Spear Masters when they have better speed mods. Luckily, lancers can really take a hit and even have WTA against sword users. Critblicking is somewhat more common among lancers with that innate class bonus every S-ranking class gets, and the dodge bonus is helpful since they may often face Berserkers who have an even higher crit ratio due to the weapon triangle. Skills available to all Spear Masters: Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Lancefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic. Pretty hot I'd say. Seal Defence AND Speed on the same unit will destroy anybody who dares target a lancer for the next few turns, increasing their vulnerability and susceptibility of getting doubled - even the fastest units around can be doubled at -6 AS, especially with Darting Blow being a thing. Seals can be utilised on player phases as well, debuffing units like Snipers so that your other guys can rout them more easily. Lancefaire is a +5 buff to strength that's always active and about as reliable as anything can be. Rend Heaven is the best proc skill in the game and lancers needn't look for a friend to acquire it, while Quixotic may or may not be included in your build since it can hurt you as well. A lancer technically doesn't have to connect its attack if all you care about is sealing people's speed and defence. Usable weapons: Weapon Mt Hit Crt Rnk Rng Additional effect Silver Naginata 13 80 0 B 1 def/res+1, cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle Silver Lance 14 80 0 B 1 cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle Venge Naginata 9 90 0 A 1 def/res+1, avo-20; 2xMt on counter Swordcatcher 7 65 0 D 1 def/res+1, avo-10; eff. vs swords Dual Naginata 8 85 5 C 1 def/res+1; reverse WT Guard Naginata 5 75 0 C 1 def/res+5 Beast Killer 10 85 0 D 1 eff. vs beasts/riders Bolt Naginata 11 70 0 C 1-2 mgc; def/res+1, avo-20; no crits/skills Javelin 6 75 0 D 1-2 no dbl, foe dbl+5; no crits/skills Spear 12 75 0 B 2 avo-10; no dbl, foe dbl+5 Much like every other weapon in the traditional weapon triangle, lances have an effective weapon against the weapon type they've got WTA against, a dual weapon and a venge weapon. All naginata increase defence/resistance at the expense of having less Mt than their Nohrian counterpart, and Guard Naginata takes that to an extreme by granting +5 def/res, so you can tank while you try to inflict damage via Rend Heaven procs or something yourself. Besides Swordcatcher, your other effective weapon is Beast Killer, which helps handle riders if those become prominent at any point. Units with access to Spear Masters: (naturally) Hinoka, Oboro, Takumi (via Friendship Seal reclassing) Beruka, Mozu, Orochi, Rinkah A quicker one since we've got only 7 Spear Masters in the meta. I think I might do Berserker or Sniper next.

Sure, I'll do that. Probably need to remove the killers though. I guess Levin Sword is about as potent as Flame Shuriken? You really need to reclass to a mage class to use magic effectively, proccing Rend Heaven and not having shit for avoid, I'd wager. Then again, I did recommend Flame Shuriken as an option myself, but with 28 mag, it can't be very successful. Master Ninja is an S-rank class, silly, they just have B-swords in addition to S-shuriken. Butler/Maid is a daggerlocked class with a B cap in the arena on the other hand. I think durability is definitely a thing in Fates. A bulky unit running Armored Blow can attack a unit with average strength and expect to see little to no damage displayed. However, proc skills exist and everyone should remember that in Awakening you could even ORKO Walhart by virtue of Luna procs alone even with 0 dmg displayed in the battle forecast. I don't think anybody's tried Spy's Shuriken strats yet. These are not only weak but also inaccurate, so if you whiff, you've basically wasted a turn (Poison Strike and the like still activate), and avo-20 makes you more vulnerable next turn. We thought Assassins were the best thing in Awakening's meta for a while, until the max str female General builds became so popular that everybody ran them, and from that point onwards people preferred Bride/Hero Cordelia, Sage Sumia, various Tharja builds, Haxrom and fast Vengeance users like Gangrel. The most prominent Assassin was Flavia due to Luna/Pavise, Pavise being especially necessary for survival at that point of the metagame. I think this tendency may be expressed even more vividly in Fates' meta, but only time will tell. Interestingly, not a single Master Ninja has Pavise access... Nobody happens to combine Knight and Ninja trees, even when many combine Ninja and Cav.

Ummm Quint, we banned the braves.

I'm off to bed guys; we'll continue tomorrow.

The main competitive FE thread is filled with discussion about rules and things like organising games, so a separate thread for talking over things and doing write-ups seems warranted. We don't know much about the Fates metagame, so I felt like starting another one of these topics where I try to compare different characters who share the same classes, skills or try to group people/classes into tiers. I always figured it was useful information for users building teams and hosting! In this thread, I wanted to provoke a discussion by talking about the different classes. Without DLC and therefore without Lodestar/Witch, the only classes who get S-rank bonuses (the S-ranked weaponry is currently banned, as are braves and killers) are Swordmaster, Spear Master, Berserker, Master Ninja, Sorcerer and Sniper, Hoshidan classes getting superior representation. There are also the Beaststone users with their S-rank cap for stones, but their viability is questionable (they do seem better than Taguel and Manakete were in the Awakening meta, but that's probably not saying a whole lot). Are the S-rank users really superior to other classes though? I'd argue they do appear like key classes even if other stuff is usable. They're the best at using a specific weapon type, and when they're at WTD they can always switch to a Dual weapon or let an ally attack with a "normal" weapon. Certainly, access to several weapon types matters here (likely not as much as it did in Awakening) and things like base stats and bulk do as well, but my early impression is that S-rank access is invaluable even in the absence of any usable S-rank weaponry. Let's begin with the Master Ninja class! Max Stats HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res acc avo crt cev ranks Master Ninja 55 27 25 35 35 28 26 34 71 71 20 19 b-sw, s-sh Max Stat rankings: (41 classes total counting DLC) #20 HP, #34 Str, #25 Mag, #1 Skl, #1 Spd, #28 Lck, #33 Def, #3 Res Innate bonuses: acc/avo/crt/cev+5 (already taken into account in the above code) Highest Skl and Spd caps in the game, but Str is among the lowest, only beating the tome-locked classes. Good against tanking magic, but poor at taking physical blows (1 point above lowest defence among promoted classes). HP is average. While the other S-rankers are locked into one weapon, Master Ninja can also use swords, capping rank at B however. What this means in practice is that they can use every legitimate blade other than Venge Katana, so the only penalty is the lack of advanced weapon rank bonuses and strong Weapon Triangle. Wielding swords is helpful not only for having WTA against the otherwise problematic axe and bow users, but also a way to avoid being screwed over by Shurikenbreaker that enemies with Mercenary and Outlaw class set access have a chance of running. Master Ninja will mostly be using shuriken, as debuffs appear to be very potent in weakening enemies and the ability to counter bow users is handy. All viable shuriken are Hoshidan, as there doesn't seem like a huge risk of mounted (beast) units in the metagame (traditionally, foot units have prevailed in Link Arena). This means an additional +2 Spd to Master Ninja, and packing ~37 AS prior to mods and skills places many units at risk of being doubled by these guys. Tied with Swordmasters for highest speed, a Practice Katana brings a Master Ninja to 40 AS prior to misc mods; however, don't expect spectacular Mt with this build. Skills available to all Master Ninja: Poison Strike, Shurikenfaire. Lethality's been banned because of the possibility of being combo'd with Hoshidan Unity and Quixotic. It's a cheesy skill on its own though, with a very unlikely proc rate. Golembane can technically be used to double Mt on attacks against Mechanists, but how often will we see those and is it worthy of a skill slot? Probably not. This leaves Master Ninja with just 2 skills outside of extra class sets, and they aren't very good. Poison Strike's contribution to player phase damage is appreciated when Master Ninja may often fail to dish out enough of it due to low strength, and Shurikenfaire adds stable +5 atk when using daggers, compensating for the lack of firepower. It seems that skillwise Master Ninja are defined by what additional skills they carry, which makes individual ones stand out greatly from the crowd. Usable weapons: Weapon Mt Hit Crt Rnk Rng Additional effect swords / katanas Raijinto 11 80 5 Prf 1-2 spd+1,def/res-1, avo+10; +4 str if in inventory (Ryoma only) Siegfried 11 80 5 Prf 1-2 cev+10; +4 def if in inventory (Xander only) Silver Katana 12 90 0 B 1 spd+1,def/res-1, cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle Silver Sword 12 90 0 B 1 cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle Axe Splitter 7 75 0 D 1 spd+1,def/res-1, avo-10; eff. vs axes Dual Katana 8 75 5 C 1 spd+1,def/res-1; reverse WT Practice Katana 6 80 0 C 1 spd+5,def/res-1 Armourslayer 9 95 0 D 1 eff. vs armours Wyrmslayer 9 95 0 D 1 eff. vs dragons Levin Sword 11 80 0 C 1-2 mgc; avo-20; no crits/skills Kodachi 5 85 0 D 1-2 spd+1,def/res-1; no dbl, foe dbl+5; no crits/skills Wakizashi 10 75 0 B 2 spd+1,def/res-1, avo-10; no dbl, foe dbl+5 daggers / shuriken Silver Shuriken 10 85 0 B 1-2 spd+2, cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle [spd/def/res-4] Silver Dagger 10 90 0 B 1-2 cev-5; str/skl-2 after battle [spd/def/res-4] Spys Shuriken 1 70 0 A 3 spd+2, avo-20; no dbl [str/mag/skl/spd/lck-2, def/res-5] Steel Shuriken 7 80 0 C 1-2 spd+2, avo-5; dbl-3 [str-3, def/res-4] Dual Shuriken 6 70 5 C 1-2 spd+2; reverse WT [str/mag-2, def/res-4] Sting Shuriken 7 90 0 D 1-2 spd+2; eff. vs armours [skl/def/res-3] Hunters Knife 7 95 0 D 1-2 eff. vs beasts/riders [lck-2, def/res-3] Flame Shuriken 9 75 0 C 1-2 mgc; spd+2, avo-20; no crits/skills [mag/def/res-4] The weapon selection is very diverse for Master Ninja. You have effective weaponry against riders, armours, dragons and axe users, and you have two ways of reversing the weapon triangle. Doing that is better with a shuriken since reversing the weapon triangle is more effective when you're S-ranking in the weapon type. Overall, katana and shuriken alike strengthen Master Ninja's advantage of doubling many enemy types consistently, every shuriken adding +2 AS and Practice Katana adding +5 AS. Units with access to Master Ninja: (naturally) Kagero, Kaze, Laslow, Reina, Rinkah, Saizo, Setsuna, Shura (via Friendship Seal reclassing) Orochi, Peri, Ryoma, Silas, Subaki, Xander [spoiler=Spoilered because of sheer size] Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Kagero +3 0 -1 -1 0 -1 +1 Skills (unique only): Quixotic, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Magic+2 (A+ Rinkah: Seal Resistance, Death Blow, Lancebreaker) (A+ Setsuna: Quick Draw, Certain Blow, Bowfaire, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Peri: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow) Regardless of chosen A+ set, Kagero will always have Rend Heaven access, which is arguably better than Luna since its damage even against the likes of Generals is comparable, while the proc rate is higher. Peri's set is still useful for Armored Blow for safer PPs, Aegis helping out with ranged damage (Kagero actually partially reflecting the dagger effects). Elbow Room provides more attack, which works nicely with great strength mods. Negative speed mods is a bummer though and causes Kagero to double less than competitors in this class. Setsuna's set helps with PP damage and gives a chance of healing. Rinkah gives more crit and unique capacity to face lance users easier, probably the worst variant of the three. Quixotic can be considered, but can be used against Kagero, possibly getting her OHKO'd with a skill proc? -1 def with Master Ninja's poor defence cap is asking for trouble already. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Kaze -2 0 +2 +3 -2 -1 +1 Skills (unique only): Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Duelist's Blow (A+ Silas/Xander: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow) The first Ninja you think of maybe? Kaze takes the class's strengths and weakness both to an extreme, struggling to inflict damage even more while having way better doubling with 40 AS when given a Hoshidan shuriken. Much like Saizo, Kaze always has the Samurai skills at his disposal. This means Vantage surprises, avoid on PP, as well as better damage when switching to swords. Seal Strength is largely redundant when using shuriken or maybe not - not all daggers lower strength (silver doesn't). Kaze's A+ options are identical and give him the Cav skills. He wants Luna pretty badly, and everything else is also kinda helpful at the very least. If you ask for my verdict, I'd say Kaze doesn't impress much. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Laslow +1 0 +2 -1 +1 -1 -1 Skills (unique only): Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Axefaire, Sol, Strong Riposte (A+ Odin: Heartseeker, Malefic Aura, Vengeance, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Lifetaker) (A+ Keaton: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire) (A+ Xander: Elbow Room, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow) Now here's something a little different. Mods could be better arguably (no need for such emphasis on skl and lck at the expense of spd and def), but we always get two unique breaker skills from the Merc line and potentially also a bow counter if befriending Odin. Vengeance is an all right skill when taking heavy damage, but Luna is preferred if you strike more often when at full HP. Lifetaker offers questionable longevity, while the Cav skill set offered by Xander is more universal. Both his and Odin's are probably worth considering (lol @ Keaton). Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Reina +2 0 0 +2 -1 -2 -1 Skills (unique only): Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Quixotic, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Darting Blow, Warding Blow, Magic+2 Anybody else forget this lady's a Master Ninja? I know I did. A lot of these skills are best used on a mage or somebody who fights mages (or both), but you've got Rend Heaven as the best proc skills you could dream of, Darting Blow for doubling things you shouldn't be doubling (i.e. anyone with 39 AS and below, which is just about everybody you can think of), and she's got recovery both for herself and her teammates too. The mods are super good for doubling and inflicting more damage, but there's no customisation available whatsoever, so she's stuck with her 3 class sets just like any other Corrinsexual. Reina seems pretty good. The mini-Lifetaker effect when defeating enemies on PP is nice. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Rinkah -1 0 -2 +1 0 +2 0 Skills (unique only): Lancebreaker, Seal Resistance, Death Blow (A+ Orochi: Magic+2, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Oboro: Seal Defence, Seal Speed, Lancefaire, Rend Heaven, Quixotic) (A+ Charlotte: HP+5, Gamble, Axefaire, Sol, Axebreaker) Who is this girl supposed to be? A somewhat speedy, bulkier-than-average Ninja? She NEEDS a friend to have more going for her. Orochi gives her the proc skills she badly needs, but Oboro gives the same plus the two best Seal skills imaginable - they kinda do the same thing daggers are supposed to be doing, but everytime you engage in combat (even when not countering) and more effectively. Charlotte probably isn't as good. Access to Seal Defence&Speed is rare and this makes Rinkah unique, Lancebreaker and Death Blow always there in your availability too I guess. Attacks will hurt a bit more when below full HP. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Saizo +1 0 +3 -2 0 +1 -2 Skills (unique only): Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Duelist's Blow (A+ Subaki: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow, Air Superiority, Amaterasu) (A+ Laslow: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker) Bad speed for a unit who should be doubling, but you do get Darting Blow by friending Subaki to somewhat circumvent that penalty. Strength and defence are better than average however and you shouldn't mind the resistance. Naturally, Saizo gets all the same classes and skills Kaze does, but instead of Cav skills he needs to choose between Subaki's Pegasus set and Laslow's Merc tree. Neither gives an offensive proc skill (Kaze gets Luna in the meantime), which is probably really bad, but maybe you seek reliable combat with some healing, or two breakers and more damage on EP counters? Saizo does end up different from Kaze. Unlike Kaze though, Saizo can actually do stuff with his personal when low on HP. Combo it with Poison Strike to do a lot of fractional damage to foes, possibly leaving Saizo ready to die for the next attack (though possibly the opponent would rather kill off somebody else while Saizo can recover). Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Setsuna 0 0 +1 +3 -1 -1 -1 Skills (unique only): Amaterasu, Air Superiority, Bowfaire, Certain Blow, Quick Draw (A+ Hana: Duelist's Blow, Vantage, Astra, Swordfaire, Seal Strength) (A+ Hinoka: Darting Blow, Camaraderie, Warding Blow) (A+ Selena: Strong Riposte, Sol, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker) Wouldn't she rather be a Sniper? She can be a Ninja too, inflicting more damage on PP and healing, or borrowing from either Samurai, Pegasus or Merc trees, each of which grants its own benefits and you can't really guess which Setsuna you're facing until it's too late. Among the fastest around. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Shura -1 0 -1 +3 -1 -2 +2 Skills (unique only): Gamble, Lucky Seven, Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Axefaire, Sol, HP+5 Yet another Ninja with a +3 Spd mod, and even less Str and Def. Shura is fairly predictable in that he can't choose any friend classes, and two out of three trees he does have available offer very little - Outlaw is about as poor of a class tree as Ninja. With Lucky Seven and two breakers though, you could always try checking if you can attack (and debuff) somebody during the early turns and get away without being hurt. Poor damage output on bulkier foes with no ways to remedy it (aside from using up a skill slot for Shurikenfaire). There are also six additional characters who can access Master Ninja from their friends, and as such their potential skill set is immediately known to you when you see one as Master Ninja. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Orochi 0 +3 +2 -2 -1 -2 +1 Skills: Quixotic, Tomefaire, Rend Heaven, Magic+2 Negative speed and defence? No extra strength? Orochi does specialise in magical damage, making Flame Shuriken slightly more powerful than usual and it's actually about as good as a physical shuriken. You won't ever activate Rend Heaven with that weapon though, so think twice before you decide Orochi is the Master Ninja you need. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Peri +1 0 -1 +1 0 -2 +2 Skills: Lifetaker, Heartseeker, Bowbreaker, Seal Magic, Aegis, Luna, Vengeance, Armored Blow, Elbow Room, Malefic Aura Haven't we seen these mods before? They're not the worst for offence at all. Both Cav and Dark Mage are exceptional class sets and give Peri plenty to play with. If you can kill something off on your turn, activating Peri's personal, she will be considerably faster and deadlier, so the opponent will think carefully if they really do intend risking attacking Peri before the boost wears off, and she's not the character you'd leave alive at full HP for last for that very reason. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Ryoma +1 0 +2 +1 +1 -2 -2 Skills: Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Darting Blow, Duelist's Blow, Warding Blow Does he need daggers at all when his Prf swords strikes at 1-2 range? Well why not, as long as swords still remain an option and Raijinto can still be pulled out. Myrmidon and Pegasus skills are some of the best around, and Raijinto grants an extra +4 str just by lying in your inventory so you can say Ryoma has... a strength mod of +5? That's a lot. Your best proc is Astra though, if you care about that stuff. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Silas +1 0 +2 0 -1 0 -1 Skills: Axebreaker, Shurikenbreaker, Aegis, Luna, Sol, Armored Blow, Elbow Room, Strong Riposte Mods are fairly neutral, but did you know that if you have Corrin in the same team and he (it shouldn't be a 'she' ever because Charlotte likes to critblick girls) is below half HP, Silas will attack AND tank significantly better? Couple attacking with Luna or Elbow Room or Strong Riposte and defending with Armored Blow and Aegis, and you have a Master Ninja who can be more durable and dangerous at the same time. The breakers always help of course. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Subaki -1 0 +2 -2 -1 +3 -1 Skills: Amaterasu, Camaraderie, Air Superiority, Swordfaire, Seal Strength, Astra, Vantage, Darting Blow, Duelist's Blow, Warding Blow Aren't these mods atrocious? Who seriously wants a bulky Master Ninja? The loss of speed can be compensated by picking Darting Blow for more doubling on player phase however. Subaki's basically an inferior Ryoma (when both are Master Ninja) who's a little more dodgy when at full HP thanks to Perfectionist. Samurai/Pegasus are still as good as ever. Unit Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res Xander +2 -1 -1 -1 +2 +1 -2 Skills: Swordbreaker, Aegis, Luna, Armored Blow, Savage Blow, Strength+2, Elbow Room, Trample The crown prince of Nohr is also here somehow. Must've overheard that dabbling in the Ninja arts can bring some benefit to the army? Anyway, defence mods and Siegfried's bonus actually mean your "bulk" is, well, actual bulk, and the combination of Ninja and Dragon class trees is a unique combination indeed. +2 Str mods + Trample + Elbow Room + Shurikenfaire stack for a whole lot of damage, and yet you also have Luna for procs, Aegis/Armored Blow to bolster tanking further, and Poison Strike even combos with Savage Blow to tear off 40% HP even from an enemy who isn't phased by your attacks at all. Xander's personal is helpful as he's very likely to engage foes at max HP at one point or another in a battle. Overall, he's a surprisingly potent Master Ninja! Wow, this was more time-consuming than I'd anticipated. Tell me what class you'd like to see discussed next (how about Zerker... or Spear Master? The latter has very sparse representation so I can feasibly finish pretty soon), and just discuss what's good in the metagame. Do speed tiers matter as much as they did in PoR and Awakening? It seems like with skills like Armored Blow around, having raw stats may matter at least as much, if not more. Or maybe not? More class analyses: Spear Master

[spoiler=see teams here] Carmine's team: vs. Quintessence's team Turn 1B. Effie's Amaterasu: Xander 9 -> 20 HP vs. Carmine's Charlotte (Pike-Ruin Club) attacks Quint's Xander (Swordcatcher)! 34 dmg 90% hit 22% crit (93 19 62) Xander receives 34/60 damage! Xander counterattacks! 20 dmg 40% hit 5% crit (10) Luna (54 20 59) Charlotte receives 22/70 damage! (counting less dmg rather than more when HP is an odd number; somebody do tell me which one it is in this game; don't even remember what we did in Awakening and iirc I never created a detailed instruction sheet like I did for PoR) Charlotte attacks again! (51 18 71) Xander receives 16/60 damage! Xander is KO'd! Carmine Quint Xander 20/55 Azura 50/50 Charlotte 38/70 Elise 45/45 Effie 55/55 Xander 0/60 Hinoka 60/60 Camilla 60/60 Saizo 55/55 Leo 50/50 Quint acts now.

Fixed the damage then. Also, I'm still using old true RN mechanics for hit cause I've no idea what formula to use otherwise.

[spoiler=see teams here] Carmine's team: vs. Quintessence's team Turn 1A. vs. Quint's Xander (Swordcatcher) attacks Carmine's Xander (Dual Katana)! 30 dmg 57% hit 0% crit (8) Luna btw I dunno if additional atk is added because of Siegfried (I'm not adding it here) (83 22 75) [52,5] Carmine's Xander receives 46/55 damage! Carmine's Xander counters! 2 dmg 79% hit 11% crit (25 36 85) Quint's Xander receives 2/60 damage! Carmine's Xander attacks again! (41 35 54) Quint's Xander receives 2/60 damage! Both sides survive the fight. Carmine Quint Xander 9/55 Azura 50/50 Charlotte 70/70 Elise 45/45 Effie 55/55 Xander 56/60 Hinoka 60/60 Camilla 60/60 Saizo 55/55 Leo 50/50 No debuffs, wow. This still took a long time to produce. Carmine's turn (check my PM for a question regarding an illegal skill btw nvm I'm dumb).

I also forgot to say, but Quint, you should know that support bonuses do absolutely nothing here (for now at least). I don't feel the need to discriminate against Corrinsexuals, and they're just an all-around headache imho. If they were banned in Awakening and we never cared to reconsider, then they should receive similar treatment here.

The first Fates LA game after a lengthy break from like March or smth. Rule set: - Parents maximum stats with friendship seals allowed (neglected by Quint 'cause he's a chump) - Skill bans: Counter, Lethality, Dragon Ward, Life or Death, Spendthrift does nothing - No forging - Only storebought equipment and non-Yato Prfs allowed Carmine's team: vs. Quintessence's team! Stats: Carmine HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res acc avo crt cevo Swordmaster!Xander 55 32 27 31 34 35 28 29 64 78 23 17 Berserker!Charlotte 70 43 25 32 35 25 25 23 60 65 34 7 Sniper!Effie 55 34 25 34 34 30 30 27 76 66 25 15 Spear Master!Hinoka 60 35 24 32 32 29 29 31 62 62 24 24 Master Ninja!Saizo 55 28 25 38 33 28 27 32 76 68 22 19 Quint HP Str Mag Skl Spd Lck Def Res acc avo crt cevo Kinshi Knight!Azura 50 27 26 34 34 34 22 31 68 68 15 17 Strategist!Elise 45 24 36 26 32 34 22 33 56 65 11 17 Paladin!Xander 60 33 25 29 29 34 33 30 60 60 12 17 Wyvern Lord!Camilla 60 34 24 34 30 26 36 26 64 58 15 13 Sorcerer!Leo 50 23 37 26 27 26 29 35 57 53 21 18 I didn't double-check the stats given to me (had to calc Carmine's acc/avo/crt/cev on my own though) so you guys feel free to check everything before you begin. (86) The RNG has decided that Quint gets to act first! Choose your character, his/her weapon and target!

0h 0k I'm sure we'll play more professionally when we have some clue as to what actually works.

Great! So that's why it said I have a new PM but I couldn't see where it is. You can make changes now that friendship reclasses and skills are allowed you know! This way you and Carmine will be on an equal footing.

Do you mean Death Blow? Because when you're dealing 4x damage, who cares what other skills you've got? Other than the ones that ensure your attacks connect, like breakers and whatnot. Come on, somebody else make a team and let's playyyyyyyyyy!

Why Tactics Ogre?

That's true. If she doesn't want to eat arrows, Azura basically chooses between Onmyoji/Priestess/Maid/Strategist, all rather fragile and locked to a single weapon type. At least her speed mods are good? You can have huge crit even without killer weapons - A+ Rinkah!Charlotte gets 20 crit from Zerk, 20 from Death Blow on PP as well as some more when attacking a female. The real problem is the 4x dmg modifier - it's just too much. Braves/Legends/Killers should all be banned. So, Carmine's team been approved and if somebody feels like playing, hosting could begin any time.

I guess killers are banned then? Auras do buff defence too. Shouldn't Azura's Foreign Princess be active in LA too? That basically makes Azura a defensive buffbot with a bit of recovery thrown in. Anyway, natural classes/skills+one friend seems perfect for the metagame on paper at least considering it gets everybody about the same number of skills (of course, not all classes have the same treatment... Apothecary gets nothing, while Ninja gets very little). I realised that besides Fuga, Gunter is the 2nd non-Corrin character to have 4 class sets to choose from with Jakob as a buddy. Gunter seems pretty useless though. Welp, if Carmine and somebody else send me their teams, we could begin tomorrow, pretty much.

Aye, I was just about to say "lemme host a game or two". Pretty sure we banned braves and legendary weapons, but what about killers? I recall Horace complaining about there being no detriment to just spamming those.

It does lower your avo by 10 actually! Edited everything else, cheers Carmine! And I used to think Brynfuidufdfgd has the same proc effect as Seal Magic; guess not. Here's my latest resource, which basically shows every reclass possible naturally and by Friendship Seal. Good for planning teams. Working on it and typing everything up actually made me reconsider if banning either Life or Death OR Spendthrift was a good idea. I have a feeling Wary Fighter tanking might be dominant in the meta? We'll see when we play out more fights, I suppose. Not sure how I could pull of the tiering thing by purely theorycrafting though tbqh? I can't even imagine a top 5 atm. Ryoma, Charlotte, armours? The armours become more numerous with Friendship Seals being used, too.