Defeatist Elitist

No, FE4 Thread is enough. We don't need more of this bullshit.

Yeah, it's like a screencap from Ep1, and I've pretty much used it since Ep 1 was released. :P

Lolno. True, she might head off the other way. That's not incredibly likely, and not hard to solve. I don't see its relevance. And yes, her offensive lead means a lot, regardless of level lead. That's like saying Seth isn't actually stronger than Eirika in the Prologue, just because he's a higher level. Its simply untrue. I concede that Ross can waterwalk. Oh boy, you really got me there! Now, this whole, making him a Fighter thing is something I'm not quite understanding... You're trading 1 Speed, and 1 Def (and Waterwalk :P), for 1 Skill, 1 Res, and 1 Con? Firstly, speed is superior to Con in every case. Secondly, Skill and Res aren't that great when compared with Speed and Defense. Going Pirate is a much superior path. Also, going Pirate allows you to get Berserker, which is WAY better than Hero. Let's compare the Promotion gains of Pirate-Berserker, and Fighter-Hero: Berserker/Pirate: 6 HP, 3 Pow, 1 Skill, 2 Speed, 3 Def, 2 Res, 5 Con Hero/Fighter: 6 HP, 3 Pow, 3 Skill, 2 Speed, 2 Def, 3 Res, 3 Con So, it looks like Berserker/Pirate is definitely winning here. 2 Con and 1 Def >> 2 Skill and 1 Res Plus, waterwalk/mountain walk, and Crit Boost > Swords. But I don't even know why I'm arguing your side. You're forgetting her Avoid. As for Offense, you basically just took MORE of his AS away, in exchange for... Absolutely nothing on Offense. Marisa still wins it, probably by MORE. I mean, her Crit alone should give her the win here, but even without that, she will double everything under the sun, while he'll double pretty much nothing. I think I explained this the last time. On Durability, it's an even more solid tie now because, as I said before, 1 Res doesn't really matter. So, basically, they tie Res. He wins Def and HP by 1 each. She wins Avoid by 11 or so. Whaaaaaat? Avoid is a huge part of durability. Want me to explain? In that situation where Marisa had 34 more Avoid than Ross, let's take a look at how it'll turn out assuming an enemy with an Iron Axe who has 90 Hit, and 20 Attack. That enemy can't hit Marisa. She can't die. It has 48% True Hit on Ross. That means that Marisa can take infinite hits from that enemy. Ross on the other hand, can't. Avoid matters a great deal. No. NO. NONONONONO! First of all, Garcia is a mediocre at best character. He's not incredibly likely to be played. So that support is pretty damn shaky. Second of all, even in Normal Mode, Ewan is horrible. The chances of him being used are still tiny. He'll die to almost everything when he joins. Ewan support is ridiculously unlikely. So yeah, it looks like Ross goes Supportless. Which means we're back to my old comparisons. If you want to make him a Hero in those, just make him a bit shittier all around, and that'll basically be it. But even in the one you posted, Marisa still wins. Her AS and massive Crit are more than enough to make up for the gap in Power. Durability wise, they actually have EQUAL Defense (you forgot her Supports), and she has better Avoid, Res, and Critavoid. All for 1 HP that Ross has. Marisa wins that too. Congratulations, you managed to make your character WORSE. You go.

So, what do we have here? A beautiful but deadly swordswoman versus some kid who's dad hit things with an axe really slowly. I don't think this should be too hard. Also, I'm doing Eir Marisa, because she's probably worse than Eph Marisa, to make this more fair. :D Now, first of all, let's see how Ross is going to be looking when he joins up in Chapter 2. 1/0/0 Ross: Hatchet: 9.0 atk, 3.0 AS, 92.8 hit, 0.8 crit - - 14.0 avo, 15.0 hp, 3.0 def, 0.0 res, 8.0 critavo That is HORRIBLE. I don't know how much I can stress that. Bad, bad, BAD. It is physically IMPOSSIBLE for him to double ANYTHING. ANYTHING IN THE WHOLE GAME. On top of that, he might actually have a fair chance to miss against some enemies, or even be doubled. And this is NORMAL mode. His durability is just pitiful. He's got pretty much nothing. Now, just to compare, here is a generic enemy bandit from this chapter: 13.0 atk, 5.0 AS, 76.8 hit, 0.3 crit - - 10.0 avo, 20.0 hp, 3.0 def, 0.0 res, 0.0 critavo It's beating Ross in pretty much everything except Hit, Avoid and Critavoid. It deals 10 Damage to him at 71.5% True Hit. He will die in 2 hits. Hell, if it hits him and anything else hits him he dies, same with if he was just hit by something else. In return, he deal 6 Damage to it, although is pretty damn likely to hit. He takes 4 turns to kill it. These are not good odds for Ross. Now, let's compare him with the rest of the team! Obviously Seth will destroy him here, but so will everyone else! And I won't even give anyone else a SINGLE level, even though many of them should have at LEAST 1: 1/0 Franz: Iron Sword: 12.0 atk, 7.0 AS, 100.8 hit, 2.3 crit - - 16.0 avo, 20.0 hp, 6.0 def, 1.0 res, 2.0 critavo So, Franz is dealing 10 Damage per hit to this guy, at 100% hit, killing him in two hits. In return, the Bandit deals 6 Damage, which takes 4 turns to kill Franz. And the Bandit is less likely to hit Franz than Ross. Franz wins. 1/0 Eirika: Rapier: 11.0 atk, 9.0 AS, 113.3 hit, 13.8 crit - - 23.0 avo, 16.0 hp, 3.0 def, 1.0 res, 5.0 critavo So, Eirika Double Hits, dealing 9 damage per hit. 2 attacks and that Bandit is dead. She can't miss. She might even Crit. If she did level up, and had one more point of strength (which is pretty damn likely) she would One Round. Now, on Defense, she takes 9 Damage at 29% True Hit. She's 2 hit killed, but she's horribly unlikely to be hit. I could go on to Gilliam, but I figure that's pointless. I think we can all say, Ross sucks right now. Now, obviously, you're going to say he gets better. Oh boy. How much better? How quickly? Its true that pretty much every kill will give him a level up (I'll say it takes him 10 kills to get level 10), but its HARD for him to get those 10 kills without you lining them up. This level doesn't look great for him, since he probably starts behind your guys when Vanessa drops him, and your other d00ds have probably cleared most of the enemies. Chapter 3 might get him a kill from lurking behind those walls and Hatcheting stuff. Chapter 4 is his best bet, since its full of lolbies, but EVERYONE is having fun slaughtering them here. Chapter 5 might be hard for him, what with a fair few enemies coming from a couple directions, and the whole recruiting Josh on one side thing. Chapter 6 is a nightmare for someone with low durability like him, because you never know when someone will shoot out of the Fog of War and destroy him. Chapter 7 is alright for him I guess, although Ballistae are troublesome... I'm going to be nice and say that he gets to 10 in mid Chapter 8, which is giving him almost 2 kills per chapter. So he promotes at the start of Chapter 9. I'll be incredibly nice and pretend that Colm doesn't care about the Ocean Seal, so Ross can even be a Pirate! Marisa joins Chapter 10. I'll give Ross a couple levels through these chapters, and we'll say he's level 10/2/0 when we get Marisa. He also isn't likely to have much Support Wise right now, except perhaps something shaky with his dad. But Garcia isn't even necessarily gonna be around. Now, lets compare the two: 10/2/0 Pirate Ross: Iron Axe: 20.0 atk, 7.0 AS, 91.8 hit, 2.5 crit - - 26.0 avo, 24.0 hp, 6.5 def, 2.0 res, 12.0 critavo Hatchet (assuming he still HAS it): 16.0 atk, 7.0 AS, 101.8 hit, 2.5 crit - - 26.0 avo, 24.0 hp, 6.5 def, 2.0 res, 12.0 critavo And now let's see Marisa: 5/0 Marisa: Shamshir: 15.0 atk, 13.0 AS, 103.3 hit, 40.8 crit - - 35.0 avo, 23.0 hp, 4.0 def, 3.0 res, 9.0 critavo So, basically, Ross can hit harder with a single attack, but he's much more likely to miss, and much less likely to Double attack. He won't Crit. Marisa will almost always hit, will ALWAYS double in every situation barring one or two incredibly rare circumstances. She also has a decent Crit chance. She wins Offense. On Durability, Ross has 2 more Defense, and 1 more HP, but Marisa has 9 more Avoid (and one more Res :)). Ross could get something here. After this, the two should gain levels at roughly an equal rate. Support wise, Ross is pretty much screwed as I said before, barring the small chance of Garcia being fielded, but Marisa has some options. She can probably get something with either Tethys, Gerik, Tana, or a combination of the 3. So onwards to Mid game, around Chapter 16! Since this is Normal Mode, they'll probably be near Promotion now, if not at it. For the sake of Simplicity, I'll compare them at 17/0-19/0, and 20/1-20/3. 17/0 Ross: Iron Axe: 26.7 atk, 11.5 AS, 105.2 hit, 5.1 crit - - 41.0 avo, 34.5 hp, 10.2 def, 5.0 res, 18.0 critavo Hand Axe: 25.7 atk, 9.5 AS, 90.2 hit, 5.1 crit - - 37.0 avo, 34.5 hp, 10.2 def, 5.0 res, 18.0 critavo 19/0 Marisa B Gerik, B Tethys: Iron Sword: 17.2 atk, 19.8 AS, 150.9 hit, 19.3 crit - - 75.6 avo, 33.5 hp, 9.1 def, 9.5 res, 31.0 critavo Ross again deals more damage with a single hit, but Marisa has a massive AS lead. It's ridiculous. She would have to wield a Steel Blade in order to have him win AS with his Iron Axe. She also will basically never miss, whereas he has a fair chance of doing so. She also trumps him in Crit. So for Offense, never missing + always doubling + Crit + trading some of those things for other things if she needs to >>>> missing lots + never doubling + high base damage. On Durability, things are tight. She wins Avoid by 34 at the best of times for Ross. She loses HP and Defense by 1 each, but wins Res by 4. I think Marisa wins Durability! Now, to compare them Promoted: 20/3 Marisa, A Gerik, B Tethys: Iron Sword: 20.1 atk, 21.1 AS, 158.5 hit, 37.5 crit - - 84.7 avo, 39.8 hp, 12.5 def, 12.2 res, 37.5 critavo Steel Sword: 23.1 atk, 18.1 AS, 143.5 hit, 37.5 crit - - 78.7 avo, 39.8 hp, 12.5 def, 12.2 res, 37.5 critavo Silver Sword: 28.1 atk, 20.1 AS, 148.5 hit, 37.5 crit - - 82.7 avo, 39.8 hp, 12.5 def, 12.2 res, 37.5 critavo Killing Edge: 24.1 atk, 21.1 AS, 143.5 hit, 67.5 crit - - 84.7 avo, 39.8 hp, 12.5 def, 12.2 res, 37.5 critavo 20/1 Ross: Iron Axe: 28.4 atk, 13.4 AS, 109.9 hit, 21.2 crit - - 46.0 avo, 40.6 hp, 13.0 def, 7.6 res, 19.2 critavo Steel Axe: 31.4 atk, 11.4 AS, 99.9 hit, 21.2 crit - - 42.0 avo, 40.6 hp, 13.0 def, 7.6 res, 19.2 critavo Silver Axe: 35.4 atk, 13.4 AS, 104.9 hit, 21.2 crit - - 46.0 avo, 40.6 hp, 13.0 def, 7.6 res, 19.2 critavo Killer Axe: 31.4 atk, 13.4 AS, 99.9 hit, 51.1 crit - - 46.0 avo, 40.6 hp, 13.0 def, 7.6 res, 19.2 critavo Now, again, let us compare: As always, Marisa wins horribly in AS, Ross takes raw damage. She also dominates in Hit and Crit. She wins Offense. Durability, she wins Avoid by 38, and loses HP and Defense by 1 each, again. She wins Res by 5. She wins this. And it continues to go her way from here out. So basically, before Marisa joins, Marisa > Ross, when she joins, Marisa > Ross, later, Marisa > Ross. Your turn.

I open. Coming soon.

I'll open it now, don't be too hasty!

Alright. I doubt anyone should be taking Seth in one of these, just because of the degree by which he is the best character here, but I'd be fine if you defended Ross (who's the best of the trainees), versus, say, Eireka Route Marisa?

I've been taking a break for a while, and I still don't have THAT much time, but I think I can squeeze this one in then. So I'll do it. Besides, it'll be interesting (or maybe not :P), because pretty well no-one debates FE8 Normal Mode. Anyhow, I'll defend most characters against most other characters of a somewhat similar caliber. Who would you like to defend?

Oh, cry me a fucking river. I know I shouldn't respond to you, but this is too much. Do you know how many times you've bullshitted everyone? Do you know how many times you've "tried to change"? Do you know how little your word is worth? Should I ask any of the people from FEE? Jarly, you can keep acting like you do, and get progressively perma banned from every single site on the internet that isn't hopelessly retarded, or you can actually change. I don't mean go "BAAAW I AM GOING TO CHANGE" or "BAAAAW I AM GOING TO LEAVE FOREVER!", because those are always lies. I mean you have to actually stop doing what you do now, and act differently. Otherwise you WILL be banned. Hopefully forever. There is no way you can fool the staff into thinking you're in the right here.

I think Lyn is still the worst Lord really, even considering Roy. If you think about it, Roy is super duper cool until he caps out his level, and then pretty bad until Promotion, when he starts getting better. Then he uses Sword of Seals and he becomes awesome! If only it had more uses... Lyn on the other hand really doesn't have a period of awesome ANYWHERE. And its not like she has some other use that makes her way better like Micaiah does or anything, either.

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK I can't believe I forgot about Roy. Goddamnit. Yeah, Micaiah isn't even in the running for this anymore... But I already voted Lyn :(

Meh. That's really what Micaiah is. As you've said, she's great against things that she can OMGWTF Thani rape, or anything that's REALLY fucking slow. But she can't double pretty much anything, EVER, and has worse durability then most of the other frail as hell DBers. She does have Sacrifice though. But in the end she really ends up as being kind of a neutral. She's not great, but yeah, I don't think she's the worst lord either. LYN FOR WORST LORD!

Yeah, he was definitely doing some of that, but there where other members who I can't actually remember who did something of the sort. Lyle was probably the worst example, but there were a couple others.

Because Micaiah's a douchewhore? :P But really, Micaiah is generally only useful for killing Horses/Armors and doing some weakening or something, and doing random utility stuff. She has the lightest, weakest Magic, but has horrible Speed. :( But yeah, her niche gives her enough usability I think. For me, the worst might be Lyn. Eirika has an advantage over her for me for various reasons.

Shuuda, perhaps you missed the topic where they where talking about moving FESSers over here. Several members of SF pretty much said "Well they shouldn't act like REAL members because they aren't, they haven't been here long enough/got enough posts/whatever other bullshit."

I really don't think so.

Basically. I just know these things from basically soaking stuff up. At least, if they follow the game's plot...

Plus I kind of knew what happened. Again, I'm not sure how they'll do it, but it seems the theme of the show is pretty happy overall to me. I mean, Ep 18 is pretty charged with happy emotion and whatnot, and really, so is Ep 19 I think. :P Tomoya gets over such things, and whatnot. Anyhow, we shall see what will happen! :D EDIT: Anyone see Ep 19 other than me? I think Raven's hopes will be fulfilled. :D

I like you either way Cynthia. You're pretty awesome. :D

Just keep going. That's all you can really do. I must say, I find it kind of inspiring actually.

If so, then your MOM has a flawless argument. ZING!

How 'bout Twatface? Means what it says.

I support this. I personally have tried pretty much everything to educate him, make him stop, or just make him retreat of his own accord, but it hasn't worked, so hey.

Because we're all skilled in the ways of magic in real life, amirite?

Yeah, that's ineffectual. You see, through a loophole in the rules I have granted myself the ability to grant myself any ability ever. Even ones I make up. I grant myself the Ability "I Win". It makes me win. I win!