Constable Reggie

I expected this game to at least have some semblance of the level of story quality from 7-9

That was regarding character and story-to-gameplay quality comparisons. But, looking at your response, it seems you're still at the same level regarding any story aspect whatsoever. I was being facetious when I mentioned the generalization thing, but it's starting to look pretty spot on for you specifically. Oh and saying gameplay always > story just because its a game is extremely shallow reasoning. That's like saying visuals are always more important than story in movies. The satire bit wasn't even directed to you. It clearly mentions banzai

You're seriously going to stick to that claim? Well, I at least can admire your determination if nothing else

I too can generalize the shit out of someone and say that the fe13 hype is distorting your view of the game. Even if we ignore the fact that you didn't even get Fe7's plot summary right, if all you can judge from fe7/8's story is their summarizable plots, then honestly, you've missed the point. The plots in those two games are the backdrops for the characters, and that's what makes them so compelling. Focusing on Brammimond somehow reviving Ninian is irrelevant; what's important is the closure of the character of Ninian. Likewise, only saying that Lyon is corrupted by dark stones is disingenuous at best. The corruption exists to characterize Lyon and his complex relationship with Ephraim/Eirika, and the repercussions of that relationship. What importance does Emmeryn's death hold when you kill Gangrel just two chapters later and immediately go right to the next arc with no real time to contemplate her death's impact? What does Emmeryn's bonus chapter do for her character besides give more of the blatant fanservice this game is infamous for? She wasn't brought back in order to bring closure to her character, or anything similarly important, she was brought back so people could have her as their waifu. Also banzai your assertion that Awakening is some kind of satire of the Fe formula is fucking hilarious, and not for the reasons you'd think

In the context of Fe13, yes, the few brilliant moments are only so because it's in Fe13. Regardless, this does not negate the fact that writing and characterization on par with 7-9 are present in Awakening. hahaha better comparison would be Fe13 being Rankin-Bass' Return of the King, and 7-10 being Jackson's RotK

1) Virion - best character in the game, no debate about it 2) Gregor - also has good characterization 3) Brady - the only interesting child character 4) Walhart - the only interesting antagonist 5) uhhh, Cherche I guess?

Clearly it does considering that there's a few brilliant flashes of characterization hidden beneath all the bullshit "attempts" at it

I'm not talking about literal cartoon characters, I'm talking about the same level of depth as someone from a typical cartoon. And why do you keep insisting Troy's intial jockness is a gimmick? How in the world is an intentionally stereotypical personality a gimmick? Do you know the difference between a gimmick personality and a stereotypical one? Also, I never said having a gimmick itself is a bad thing. The gimmick being the only or major thing the character can attribute to is when it's bad. I really am unsure if you're understanding my points. The lute/serra support thing doesn't have anything to do with anything. I never said having supports be the main form of character development is a bad thing, I said having an overwhelming number of bad, trash, or pointless supports dwarf the legitimately good ones is a bad thing. Guess what Awakening does. You completely dodged the point regarding my issue on bringing up Nintendo. When's the last time anyone praised Dragonballz's characters/story for being excellently written? Also, the Avengers doesn't have a scene where Scarlett Johansson shyly bakes a pie (after numerous times) for Tony Stark in the hopes that he will finally recognize her. Everyone is played straight and are consistent with their characterization Going to give my opinion on these real quick. Emmeryn: loses a lot of its impact when you fight and kill Gangrel only 2 chapters later (see: Ninian's death for a much better execution [no pun intended]), then completely loses all impact when it turns out she survived it Yen'fay: hahahahahahahahahahaha Lucina: only really touching when Robin is the parent, otherwise all tension is immediately lost the second Chrom shows his fat fucking face in the scene When I talk about story, I'm not talking about just the plot. I'm including everything. The support conversations (story) suffer greatly because of the decision to have everyone be able to marry each other (gameplay), character development (story) is hurt by shoehorning the tidbit quotes everywhere, such as at level up or shiny tiles (gameplay), and so forth I'm legitimately convinced that we're not even talking on the same page, so I'm going to stop here

Troy doesn't have a gimmick. Abed does, but a) that's the entire point of Abed (it's fucking pointed out in an episode), and b) it's so excellently pulled off and well written that it's not a negative. Also, you didn't even address my point of cartoon-like aspects versus actual cartoon characters. A better analogy would be watching several mini (and separate, which is where your analogy fails) indiana jones adventures and saying the few good ones do not make up for the several shitty ones. You're not going to convince anyone that the shit-to-decent ratio being overwhelmingly high is okay because at least there's still decent convos. Why are you trying to bring the entire Nintendo company into an IS-only issue? The fact of the matter is that IS has had a history of making games with good story elements, so when they fail to live up to their own standards, it is not excused just because Nintendo is the company behind Mario. And this is a game that starts off with you killing Chrom, and has an alternate timeline of complete misery. Compare that to the majority of convos in the game. Awakening is so wildly inconsistent in tone it's not even funny. And I wasn't just talking about compared to 4-5 (these two meld story and gameplay pretty well. I brought them up because they starkly contrast Awakening's fantastic idea of actively harming story in favor of gameplay, when IS has shown that they could do far, far better). Character and storywise, Fe13 is entirely inferior to 7-9. Haven't tried those yet, but I'm iffed at the fact that we need to pay even more just to have decent characterization for some of the cast.

There's a difference between having cartoon-like elements (Troy) being the backbone of characterization and literally being a cartoon character. Awakening's cast falls in the latter. And no, I disagree with quantity over quality. 7-9's convos are usually consistently good because they focused on characters that work well with each other (man I just loved the wonderful chemistry between Lucina and Gerome) and stuck with them. If I have to go through a tide of bullshit to get to one or two decent support convos per character, that doesn't speak very highly of Awakening's writing. Don't give me that bs about people just not trying hard enough to find the 1-2 decent ones out of a million And you're only strengthening the theory that they thought of the story as an afterthought to the gameplay. That may be fine to some people, but again, past Fes have excellently complemented the two together (fe5 being the pinnacle of it). So when Awakening's gameplay and story are so hugely disjointed, to the point of active harm to the second, it, again, feels disappointing.

I don't have access to Awakening right now, but I remember testing this and swear that it didn't stack. If I'm wrong, my bad

I define gimmick characters as only having their gimmick to rely on for characterization, or is overwhelmingly the greatest part of it. Usually, making characters be one-note gimmicks is far, far easier to do than to give them actual characteriztion, which is why it's done. Consequently, the characters suffer because they're not real, believable characters that we can legitimately care for, rather, they become cartoon characters. Fe7-9 set the standard for having fantastic characterization in their casts (exceptions exist of course, eg ilyana), so when Awakening comes in with characters only having their gimmicks, and nothing else, then it feels disappointing. Serra's the typical annoying princess character, but we're shown (not told, which is a huge problem for Awakening's characters) why she acts the way she does in an amazingly brilliant fashion. That's where her depth comes from, and it's brilliantly executed. We can see the subtle mannerisms that Lute portrays that, in contrast to her typical arrogant personality, makes for an extremely well fleshed out character. What does Awakening have that is even close to how well someone like Serra or Lute was handled? This isn't to say that gimmickry is the only reason for the (imo) subpar characterization for Awakening. If characters are just plain uninteresting or shallow (ie one note), it's not much better than being a gimmick. See: Chrom, Sayri, Tiki, Nah, Basilio, Flavia, etc Honestly, I'd feel that Awakening's cast would be much, much stronger if they focused on fewer support conversations, rather than the cavalcade of bullshit that we got. I guess it's just an issue of gameplay prioritization severely damaging the story's potential.

Who would you categorize under being a gimmick/one-note then, if not a good number of Awakening's cast? Because the second you compare them to the level of quality of Fe7-9's characters, you will instantly see the difference.

dafuck virion is the best character in the game There's a difference between making a well rounded, well written cast of personalities and lazying out and making almost everyone so one-note. You don't have to like every character, but the best casts will at least try to make them all interesting, and rely on your dislike being of their personality itself, and not the quality of the writing behind it. I doubt many people like Serra and Lute as characters, but that doesn't mean they're not extremely well fleshed out characters. Severa is not nearly at the same high caliber said two are at.

Lyre, Gareth and Jill. Seriously, what kind of chump comes in with only 24 hp at level 14

Both of them can't be active at the same time, so it's only 15 at one range

Because she's pretty. god knows that no one would like her for who she actually is as a character (extremely specific exceptions may apply)

Because they're terribly written. Whether it's because of [presumably] laziness (Cordelia), mistranslation (olivia), or just plain bad characterization (Severa), they're definitely not up to snuff with the Fe7-9 characters. There's some exceptions (Virion), but this is generally the case with most of 13's cast imo

It's come to my attention that a lot of discussions that occur in life are obfuscated by our own, different definitions for these important words. Can one be wrong while also not being immoral? Is all offensiveness wrong? I'd like you guys' takes on this.

ifyp

uh sumia, Olwen has a logic degree do you have a logic degre? then shut the fuck up he's always correct and can never be wrong on anything

ahahahaha ahahahaha ahahahahahahaha because when you're cornered, just charge at whoever is nearest feelings are for the weak like chiki

always choose frost walrus first what a fucking scrub also that guy isn't actually me, I'm the goddamn constable, I have a whistle

bullshit dude, i bet you don't even have a logic degree psshhhh lowlifes

Awakening doesn't reveal some of her pretty big secrets eh i bet the jp version does