Lord Raven
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(You see with NM I'd include WTA has part of my argument, but you just made life easier)
Haar > Reyson
Haar has an eyepatch. There's my eyepatch comment. Lame, but I don't care.
What exactly makes Haar > Reyson? Well, Haar beats Reyson in most stats. Compare their bases:
Reyson
HP 40
Str 3
Mag 5
Skl 5
Spd 11
Lck 31
Def 6
Res 17
Haar
HP 46
Str 23
Mag 2
Skl 24
Spd 20
Lck 13
Def 23
Res 7
We can easily agree that many of the enemies are physical units, correct? I'm going to place an estimate around 75%. Against 75% of the enemies in the game, Haar is taking their attacks a lot better. While not doubling that often (against Mages? Maybe. Against Armors? Definitely. Against everything else? Well he does a lot and takes little so who cares?), he's not getting doubled either. On top of that, the enemies who are doubling him in the first place do little damage to him.
Reyson can't attack and is limited to 10 EXP per turn unless you get him attacked. But Reyson, while untransformed, is guaranteed to get killed or almost get killed when attacked - he is doubled (11 speed) and only has 50 evade to deal with enemy attacks. 6 defense is not cool either; 40 HP is his only saving grace and that isn't even reliable (enemies in part III tend to have 16 or 17 strength at least [and I'm being gracious here], doing the math if they have something that's at least 9 or 10 might he will die easily unless transformed). If he gets attacked while transformed, it takes away a potential turn he can revitalize your units with.
What has Haar to fear in Part III? Pretty much nothing aside from a Bolting Sage in Chapter 2. Because he has offense (unlike Reyson, who only has Cards to attack - hah, that stuff is worth selling for money which the Greil Mercs have little of than used with a char who has no offense otherwise) and defense against 75% of the enemies in the game.
Now's a good time to mention that he has access to the strongest weapon in the game. It's inaccurate, but Haar has the Skill and Luck to compensate.
Lets run down Haar, specifically now.
2-P
Marcia and Elincia can't take on those Wyverns, and neither can Nealuchi because they don't do enough damage and take far too much. While Leanne helps when she gets kidnapped, they still don't do that much damage or dodge reliably. Then comes Haar, and when recruited by Marcia the enemies can't do much, if any, damage to him at all. He one or two rounds (IIRC) every single wyvern in that chapter except the boss, who Nealuchi/Elincia/Marcia don't even come close to kill anything.
2-E
The only other character here that can compete his usefulness is Elincia. Because of Amiti and healing, nothing more. Haar can take an entire side by himself and only need to heal once every couple turns. An occassional thunder mage might come by but can easily handle that - everything else takes minimal damage and Haar returns with massive damage. Against armors he can use a Hammer, against everything else he can use a Killer Axe and hope to score a critical once every three shots. With the hand axe he can fight indirectly.
Hell, you can even skip all this by injecting a bunch of BEXP into him to give him a lot of Str/Skl/Def, and eventually speed/HP when Str/Def max out. From there, he can easily kill the boss after a turn or and save you a load of trouble of having to go throughout the chapter.
It's nearly impossible to beat this chapter without using Haar.
In 2-P and 2-E, he is raping every other unit in overall offense and defense.
At this point, I'm going to guess that he's Level 16 if you don't go by the 1 turn method.
HP 47.5
Str 26.5 ±1.4
Mag 2.2 ±0.8
Skl 26.0 ±0.5
Spd 21.5 ±1.4
Lck 15.3 ±1.7
Def 25.7 ±1.1
Res 8.0 ±1.4
The one turn method has different stats, notably higher in Strength, Skill, and Defense (and potentially Speed/HP), but I dunno what they are since I don't recall if we know the specifics on BEXP.
3-2
Finally, his first major threat (major is a rather liberal word for it, in fact; I wouldn't even go that far!) At this point, he's roughly on par if not a bit better than most of your Greil Mercs - who at this point have gained probably a level up or two in the previous two chapters. So he needs less EXP to be good and still beating the rest of your team. In fact, he can fight against the southeastern enemies easier and reach the boss way before your Greil Mercs because of his flying utility. Man, do I wish I was Haar in this game.
3-3
He burns the cargo. He can easily fly over enemy things and terrain disadvantages that your units will inevitably get, and helps burn the cargo. He can survive most of the hits directed at him too, considering how strong his Defense is.
3-4
So yeah the rest of your unit has movement disadvantage on the cliffs. Haar doesn't! Haar can easily reach the enemy units here and start killing them, one by one. because he is able to two round at this point (your Greil Mercs are two rounding as well, certain ones are three rounding so his offense is still ahead; as is his defense as a flier). And he has the Hammer to kill the boss easier, as well as the random other Armors in this chapter that some of your units will otherwise have trouble with.
3-5
This is where him and Reyson complete. It's a protect mission, and Haar can hold enemy lines coming from the South quite easily. Reyson needs a turn break to use the laguz stone, then after the fifth turn (and two turns subsequently) he needs an Olivi Grass. So that's at least three turns wasted if you want to hold the fort for the full time. If not? You can send Haar by himself to kill enemies once again, because he isn't object to terrain bonuses and such. Reyson can help circumvent this arguably, but there are often reinforcements coming in from all sides and his frailty starts to show, especially since he needs constant protection.
3-7
A battle with a swamp. Your units have a tough time traversing the river, but Haar sure as hell doesn't! He can take out annoying Wyvern enemies, or take the entire west side by himself (although there are a couple thunder mages, but a vulnerary or two takes care of that
![:]](https://forums.serenesforest.net/uploads/emoticons/default_emo11.gif)
). And he can travel with your main group, baiting/weakening enemies and helping kill the annoying ones that are out of reach, because your units have a tough time reaching them.Reyson needs the first turn once again, and has four turns where he needs to use the Olivi Grass to stay transformed. Not too much of a hindrance on him, but he still has a hard time surviving hits. Especially since there are a multitude of things here - Swordmasters, a buffed up Zihark from the Dawn Brigade being one of them, Crossbow users, Wind mages... and axe users will have a hell of a time with him too. He shouldn't be getting ganged up on, yeah, nor should he be getting attacked, but the fact of the matter is that he needs to stay the fuck away from the front in order to stay safe. Which can be a hassle especially since very few characters will ever be killing on their own turn.
Haar also has the potential to promote here. Coming in around Level 16 should've given him four levels to grow since Part III, which is pretty realistic considering he's probably gotten a lot of kills over the chapters he's been in.
3-8
Haar is penalized here for it being indoors. So are your other mounts (basically, Titania and Oscar...). Reyson is probably more useful than Haar here because his flying advantage doesn't mean that much, but offensively Haar is still ahead especially since he should be promoted as of 3-7. He still beats the rest of the squad in overall; in fact his competition now are Janaff and Ulki. And lets not get into that; they both compete with Reyson for the Laguz Stone, and giving them the Laguz Stone to transform early takes it away from Reyson which attacks your own unit.
If not, then his competition takes three turns to get up to paar (ha ha ha). So he remains a consistent force of your team.
3-10
He still is ahead in movement. He can save Elincia from dying, who's just asking to be killed by staying in the middle of the field (idiot) by getting in front of her and trying to intercept enemy attacks. Then precede to helping pick off some of the more annoying enemies in there, like the Bishops with Purge and using a Hammer to kill down the Generals before any Sage can reach them.
Reyson does fine, just not as well as Haar since Haar makes full use of his offense, defense, and mobility here.
3-11
Reyson isn't in this chapter for once. Just Haar.
Furthermore, Haar is immune to traps which your other units are not immune to. He also assists in getting your units to circumvent these traps, something Reyson can't do because he doesn't exist in this chapter. In many ways, he helps this chapter go by faster because he is immune to the potholes. If you don't know how to circumvent them, Haar can rescue basically any character except a mounted unit, due to his massive Wt; he can lift them to the other side of the potholes right next to where that one guy places a Light Rune. Your Hawks and freshly recruited Falconknights can also do this, but his existence speeds up the process considering two of those four others are forced.
3-F
There are _so_ many enemies here, and Reyson cannot afford to get hit. Haar can, although there's a Sleep staff and a Bolting Sage around. Your Dawn Brigade, likely to have decent leveled units, can easily take down Reyson while Haar is affected very little by them because he's still ahead of your team. And in such a short chapter, his use only exists in about three or four moves - first turn is Laguz Stone while the next three are routing the enemies. Haar is, in fact, likely to be the guy taking a lot of counter attacks and being able to dish them back while taking little damage.
Part IV
I'll start by saying this; Reyson is stuck with Tibarn's group, who has a lot of distance to cover anyway. He's fairly useful in those chapters, but Haar can suck up and dish out the hits that he takes from the laguz quite easily, on top of the hits that he takes from the Beorc. The Blizzard Sage? Him or Tibarn are killing him. The Crossbows? Him or Tibarn. Those two pose the most threat to him out of anything in the chapters, and he is sure to get hit by either of them and take tons of damage, as well as draining his laguz-o-meter.
Then the other chapters. Haar isn't doing all that stellar in the Greil route; he's doing fine, on par with other units (actually, pretty much on par with Ike, but Nailah is doing a lot better than both anyway; Ike is doing better than 90% of your army). In the Silver Army route, he's doing stellar. You have not one, not two, not three, not four, but five frail units that are forced to be in the chapter that you must protect. Leanne, Sanaki, Micaiah, Sothe, and Sigrun (Sigrun to less of an extent, but Sigrun sucks too much for HM) and Haar can easily protect against those two. He takes little damage from everything considering there are only like three magic using units here, and the only one doing better than him is Naesala.
Endgame is where Reyson has the Laguz Gem. They are all short chapters, so he only has the effect for about a turn. Rafiel is a better choice here given something like Pass, Boots and/or Celerity so he can reach and give four units their move from turn 1, whereas Reyson needs a Laguz Gem to do that. Haar still sustains his tank status, and in fact gets one of the strongest weapons in the game; Urvan. 22 Might with about 110 accuracy. At this point his AS is about 28 or 29 and his attack is in the 50s; he's doing a lot of damage. In the endgame he fares worse than only about five units in your army; and those are the laguz royals. He's on par with the rest, or even better.
And Savior is a mighty fine skill on him, considering his ability to rescue almost anything and travel long distances for a long time.
So basically, availability, Canto, flying, offense, defense > giving many units another move after the first turn.
It's rather halfassed (I've only debated like three times before), but good luck.
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Funds is a pretty easy rank in this game. I have like 12 or 13 units promoted now and my funds are still A.
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None of them are that great. Wolt and Dorothy start out ridiculously weak. They're lucky if they can scratch the enemies when they join. Klein and Igrene are better, but even they aren't too impressive. Klein is probably the most useful of the lot.
I still find it unbelievable that on HM, Archers in that chapter are better than Wolt. >_>;
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I think FE9's Elincia could make more of an Est than Tormod, since her growths are actually kinda good if I recall correctly.
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Reserved, I'll whip up an opener by tomorrow since I have homework to do.
(Also, I tend to avoid trying to be funny in my debate posts but I guess I'll mention the eyepatch)
Oh, question: Difficulty? I'm thinking NM but HM is cool too.
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You don't have to play with him for a long time. Just enough to get literally two level ups.
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-And Nabarl can just as easily get that speed advantage narrowed down with a few levels as Archer, and he's not sacrificing any other stats (whereas Ogma's losing a lot of speed as a Knight)
A random Knight, Fighter, Mercenary level up thing
http://www.feplanet.net/index.php?fep=game...amp;id=44&c[5]=24&c[6]=24&c[7]=20&c[8]=24&c[9]=24&c[10]=24&c[11]=20&c[12]=24&c[13]=24&c[14]=24&c[15]=14&c[16]=14&c[17]=14&c[18]=14&c[19]=14&c[20]=14&c[21]=17&c[22]=17&c[23]=17&c[24]=17&c[25]=17&c[26]=17&c[27]=17&c[28]=17&c[29]=17&c[30]=17&c[31]=17&c[32]=17&c[33]=17&c[34]=17&c[35]=17&c[36]=17&c[37]=17&c[38]=17&c[39]=17&c[40]=17
EDIT: okay let me find the averages I input again
Now he's pretty much exactly the same as Nabarl, with a significant amount more HP. Assuming full Cav Nabarl. This also assumes he's a Fighter at Level 20, so the HP/Strength might drop slightly... and the defense is subject to increase.
But the Horseman only has one less move.Paladin>Horseman in move
His growth is only 5% less then. Switching back to Merc gets the base defense back.-If Ogma becomes a Fighter, he's losing even more defense, and it narrows his speed lead.Archer's speed lead narrows the defense lead about as much.
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Alan/Samson archetype then...
Alan and Samson, obviously
Johan/Johalva
Sety/Cyas (thx Levin)
Karel/Harken
Nasir/Ena, Tibarn/Giffca/Naesala
Chapter 2?When does Mist get in trouble? -
Level 10ish. I get Sain and Kent around that level as well, Erk to 7 or 8, Serra to probably 5, Matthew to around 7 or 8, and everyone else is at base level or a level or two higher.
oh right, Lucius is like the same level as Erk
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Sure, I'll go with Haar.
You want me to open/make topic or what?
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Etzel doesn't use dark magic.
They're called Navarres actually.Badass Swordfighter/Mymidon archetype (These are recruitable enemies, usually have killing Edge): Aira, Shiva, Rutger, Guy, Joshoua, Zihark, Navarre/Nabarl.
Johan/Johalva to an extent.Axe Brothers/buddies that join early: Maji and Saji, Lot and Ward, Batre and Dorcas, Othin and Halvan. -
Nabarl has better Strength? Really?
Ogma can easily get that defense lead narrowed with a few levels as a Knight, and he can narrow the move with the Horseman class after promotion (which, once again, puts him at Nabarl's level quite easily).
Better weapon selection is when they're equal. Of course, after promotion they're equal. Before promotion, Ogma can change classes to Fighter if you're so worried about Lances (so he can get the advantage) whereas Nabarl can't.
and frankly... Nabarl's AS is poor [as a Cav] for a while. Ogma's is not.
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Earth Seals.
And he probably does buy them near the end.
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I'm sorry if this isn't relevant but who's the blue haired guy between Eliwood and Hector in the bottom row?
The guy next to Lundgren (Eagler?) is also missing his left shoulder. And I can't seem to find Hector's brother.
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I actually don't mind having a debate right now. FE6, FE7, FE8, FE9, FE10, FE DS are pretty much what I know enough about... mainly FE7, FE9, and 10. For DS I haven't played H5 so I'd rather debate like NM (lol) or H2 or 3.
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Gatrie has speed and power in FE10.
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To be honest the group I sent down (Klein, Lugh, Ray, Clarine, Dieck, Karel, Percival) is taking them pretty well. It's just the eastern group (why did I even put Ellen in this chapter, she's 12.99 and has poor speed) because it has Lilina with 29 HP and only a B Gonzales/C Roy to fall back on (Roy has C Lilina, B Lance and B Alan, and they're a raping trio; Miledy and Zeiss are also destroying everything ever). >_>
Still though, the reinforcements in this chapter are crazy.
My supports:
Roy: B Alan, B Lance, C Lilina
Alan: A Lance, B Roy
Lance: A Alan, B Roy
Lilina: B Gonzales, C Roy
Gonzales: B Lilina
Miledy: C Zeiss
Lugh: C Chad, B Ray
Ray: B Lugh
Rutger: B Dieck, A Clarine
Clarine: B Dieck, A Rutger
Dieck: B Rutger, B Clarine
B EXP
B Power
A Funds
A Battle Skill
A Tactics
A Survival
A Overall
Highest level: Level 13 Lugh
Average level (main group): Level 7ish
People honestly think 21 is the hardest, though? Because I found 7 a bitch (relatively). The game really isn't that hard especially ranked, IMO...
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Paladin, hurr.
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I'm from 5-10 for my main team in Chapter 21, but my EXP/Power are still B rank as far as I'm aware. The only units that I don't regularly use that I'm using are Klein and Igrene. >_> I have Oujay and Fir at Level 15 and I bothered to train Lilina (not because I like her, but I find it easier to baby Mages... not that I babied her, I just gave her finishing blows since some of my units couldn't really one round early on and they were like 9 levels higher).
15 Wyverns and 4 Pallies on the first couple turns is murder, by the way.
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If the minus one stacks up over times, your argument would hold water. But it doesn't because Ogma has the strength to compensate.I keep saying: It's MINUS one damage. You take more damage when you're getting the WTD, too.
Nope, it's not-1 damage when you're already taking way less damage than Ogma is.
He has the same chance as everyone else because it can be used on anyone.Also I'm not assuming Nabarl automatically gets them, but when you look at who he's competing with, he has a VERY high chance. Unless you're using Captain Gordin, which isn't going to happen to often.
But he's still not the only one that can use it. Who cares if it goes to waste, it can be used on others.He's the only one who really cares, and/or benefits from it at all. GIving it to Marth is a waste.
It doesn't matter who gives a damn about what, it's still bias to automatically assume Nabarl is getting it. In fact you may as well save it and give it to someone later who has a tough time doubling instead of giving it to Nabarl, because they might need it more.Same story with everybody else. Nobody else gives a shit about losing the speedwings, UNLIKE the boots, which other units actually give a damn about.
That's a bad thing in a game where WTA matters, not in a game where you can easily shrug it off.He's still suck with swords in a lance dominant game. That's a bad thing.
Proof?Not nearly as long as you keep saying.
Sigh, time to bring out some numbers.But he doesn't WANT the Horseman class. It rapes his stats, makes him lose more to Nabarl than he already is, and it's all for naught because he's still losing move. What's the point? There is none.As a Merc, he'll have about 17 Speed at Level 20.
He promotes. 19 Speed.
He switches to Horseman. 15 Speed.
His strength reaches 14 as well.
Promotion, 16 Strength.
Horseman, 14 Strength.
His stats get "Raped" my fucking asshole.
On the other hand, Nabarl...
Cavalier, 12 Speed at Level 20.
Promotion gives him 1 Speed. 13. Oh wait, Ogma wins here!
Cavalier, 13 Strength at Level 20.
Promotion gives him Strength, 15. Ogma only loses by one point, with a significant AS and HP lead, as well as a level lead of about two to actually make their Strength stats even.
And you honestly think he's getting raped?
Not when his HP is a lot higher.Also -1 defense and swords. He's taking 2....no, THREE more damage against things. That matters.
WOW ONE LESS DEFENSE MY GODHorseman cuts his HP lead, and he takes more damage as well due to 1 less defense and stuck on the WTD.And Horseman doesn't do anything for his previous HP growth. Hell, you don't even need to make him a Horseman necessarily; he's fine with Hero, and he's offensively more powerful ESPECIALLY with axes to fight against the WTA.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/favoritismExcept it's not, because he's not getting anything that actually benefits somebody else, and I've gone through EVERY SINGLE UNIT HE CAN POSSIBLY COMPETE with to prove this. Just like using spirit dusts on anybody not named Merric in H5 [since Merric is basically the only usable mage in H5] is a waste. Guys like the cavs will go from doubling everything on the map to doubling everything on the map. Guys like Roger and Jake will go from not doubling to not doubling. Nabarl is seriously the only one who makes any real use out of it.
I'm not even seeing where you're calling it huge because Ogma can easily take a level up or two as a Knight to close the gap pretty easily. >_> It's just base Defense, Ogma's HP growth and equal defense growth really doesn't mean Nabarl rapes him.Oh yeah, little trivia. Ogma barley starts out winning HP by the time the two promote. Nabarl's HUGE defense lead is worth far more. As time goes on, Nabarl also starts to close the gap in HP. Eventually, they tie, but Nabarl's huge defense lead causes him to win durability. And everything else, for that matter.Also: Barst receives support from him, as do Bord and Cord (and Nabarl, in fact) so he helps a lot more characters than Nabarl does.
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No, it's favoritism if he's not the only one who can use it.It's not favoritism if nobody cares. Why do you think Merric pretty much has a monopoly on the spirit dusts in H5?
+1 damage isn't significant, though.It's very significant since Nabarl is already killing things, and WTA is only helping him tank damage better.
Nabarl isn't the only one who cares about Speed, too.Except other units actually give a shit about the defense.
And Ogma also cares about move.Except other units actually give a shit about the move.
What if the person wants to use a Levin Sword?Except when nobody else gives a shit about said stat. You can distribute your spirit dusts amongst non-magical units and leave Merric with none, but that sounds like a colossal waste to me.My point is: you can't say that x person will always get y item to close a gap between two characters because you can always use it on the character with the better stat to further enforce the gap. It's favoritism to do so if everyone is able to use it.
Jagen's early game wins against everyone until Chapter 2.Just like there's more to the game than a lategame win, there's more to the game than an earlygame win, otherwise Jeigan would be in the top slot.Ogma's early game basically destroys Nabarl's, then it carries on for a while. After promotion Ogma can easily get the Horseman class too so the movement gap closes between them.
Great, except:
Horseman class also uses Swords. Ogma has a high Sword weapon level.A: Bows suck
Not "raped" seeing as, you even said so yourself, the speed is irrelevant because both are going to double. In which case, I'm pretty sure Ogma has a Strength and HP lead here.B: Ogma gets raped in overall stats [Nabarl might actually be FASTER after he goes Horseman]
They're not bad in a game where WTA is irrelevant.C: He is now locked to swords for meleeing, a very BAD thing in a lance dominant game
By 1. Where Ogma is winning HP by a lot.D: Nabarl is still winning move
Actually, give me the raw stats behind this and I'll take a look for myself since I'm not buying it at all.Do this, and now Nabarl REALLY kicks Ogma's ass.If not, then Nabarl's not doubling for a while as a Cav + Ogma's offense is raping his as a Merc until like Chapter 13 or 14 so Ogma > Nabarl, because Nabarl's leads aren't THAT significant after he promotes. If anything, it's just move and Defense.
This point is completely irrelevant. No matter how you cover it up, it's favoritism.Oh, yeah, and before you bring it up....Every unit up to C10 that may or may not care about the speedwings:INSERT LIST OF CHARACTERS HERE
...Yep, a lot of units are just heartbroken over that speed loss. Unless Captain Gordin is in play, a scenario highly unlikely, absolutely nobody gives a crap about Nabarl taking that speedwing, since it does them no good at all.
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Oh boy because one damage is SO significant especially considering Ogma's strength leadExcept it DOES matter because lances will start being dominant before Oguma promotes. And for the record, it's also 1 less damage Oguma does, and 1 more damage he'll take. And Nabarl's already taking less damage than he is.
He's not the only one entitled to speedwings, no matter who we are talking about.Proof? He owns the fighters in C4 [it's a two round, and theyre doing like, 3 damage back] so he's still great at jointime anyway. I highly doubt he'll have any issues after he hits 9 AS. Toss him the speedwings in C10 if it's that much of an issue: He has very little, if any, competition for them.Agreeing with your logic, I could easily use a Dragonshield to compensate for the Defense gap, or Boots for the movement gap. Stat boosters are valid, but not as automatically applying it to one person; no one man is entitled to a stat booster.
Ogma owns the fighters in one round if Nabarl's taking two. Ogma also has the option of becoming a horseman after promotion so the movement lead thins to 1.
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No, it doesn't matter because 10% Hit/Evade WTA is minuscule especially considering very few enemies will miss anyway, and you'll miss very little as well.no, it does matter because lances>>>swords
Proof?And his base offense recovers very quickly. -
So? She still makes decent use of Resolve, I don't think it matters who can use it better. (It shouldn't considering anyone who can use it better is either weaker than her at this point or is a lot stronger, enough to handle enemies where she can't).
I'm not even saying she's that good. I'm just saying that she does well with Resolve.
Your easiest and hardest chapters
in Fire Emblem: Path of Radiance
Posted
It's 3-13.
I'd like to place 1-3 as my hardest because two many things start to double you around this time.