[Is there ever a preparations menu at the begining of any chapter?]

It's the chapter after you get Rutger if I recall correctly. 6 was it?

[Volug]

Oh yeah, he has 26 base speed (19 or 20 with Wildheart in Part I, in which case only Zihark and Sothe are beating him here)) and your dawn brigade units don't even hit that attack speed until Part IV anyway. Unless it's Zihark.

[My Lyn sux]

The fact that her Resistance growth is really shouldn't make that a surprise. On average her Resistance beats her defense after promotion, and catches up at like Level 16ish.

[Volug]

Like I said, he needs 5 levels to even double them.

He's perfectly able to get that whether or not that is the case. Laguz give a lot of EXP.

I said later on. He's not.

He's not what? I don't get it.

There is almost no difference. You accomplished nothing.

Probabilities :3

Your units are incredibly likely to use forged weapons. Volug's stats are too average, though. Look at Nolan and Zihark, third tier. Volug will only be getting SS at Part 4, when Nolan and Zihark are third tier.

Nolan and Zihark are third tier by the very end of Part IV. Volug will be getting SS way before they get third tier.

You still need gaming experience.

I guess knowing what FE is like and seeing the game in action (maps and such) is a way to get gaming experience in Fire Emblem. Especially since you have the stats in a click.

And whether or not he's played the game is wrong; refute his points if they're wrong regardless of who the person is. It's a bit contradictory to be saying this but Mekkah is pretty unlikely to bullshit around regardless.

Volug has crap def. That's 2 hits from tigers and a hit from a cat.

HP is underrated, IMO.

Nolan and Zihark's supports make up for the underleveled-ness. And almost your whole team is underleveled.

Why are Nolan and Zihark entitled to one another's supports over Volug again? Maybe then Volug can survive given the same circumstances as Nolan and Zihark. And a lot better because he's prepared for hits when he needs to take them and can survive untransformed (and get a lot of EXP even without kills). I find that Resolve can be better on him because it lets him get more EXP from striking enemies when they attack him... and he makes better use of it because of superior transformed stats.

Volug's enemy phase >>> Zihark and Nolan's at any rate. Even if his player phase is inferior.

[Karel or Harken?]

Well FE6 Karel is certainly much better than this Karel by average wise. If only he didn't lack of supports.

Or availability.

[Volug]

Part 4. He can't even double the generals.

Not on base level.

Yes it is (later on). He's gaining less exp, so he's gaining less stats, so he's killing and hurting less, so he's less efficient. What is there to disagree here?

But his stats are already high.

Yeah, let's look at the averages. You yourself claimed that he had average stats.

Lets look at the real averages instead of the simple averages.

http://www.feplanet.net/games-10-characters-averages/10

I must brag though, I taught BaS how to do this... and my excel sheets almost became HTMLized to become these. :3

Anyways, note how when you click a stat, you see a % chance of getting each stat. :3

And laguz can't take advantage of strength the way beorc can, because they're stuck with strike weapons.

Which get stronger. SS Strike is as strong as a Silver Heavy (Poleaxe/Blade/Greatlance) weapon whereas S strike is as strong as a Steel heavy weapon. Your units are incredibly likely to use Steel Heavy weapons (a lot lower price for still a lot of power, more hit [which God knows the some members of the Brigade need], especially considering you do have an army to support) so he's still around their power.

This merely makes him less flexible since everyone else can use ranged stuff. Of course he has stuff like Howl and Quickclaw, but I do admit that it's incredibly situational.

First of all, you didn't even PLAY the game. You can't actually comment on this. Other people had no problems with what you said here, so it really shows.

He has every right to comment. There are many playthrough videos on youtube so he knows the general idea of what's going on, as well as the statistics behind the game. And even regardless, he's really damn smart; you have to be if you're an admin at smogon.

Olivi Grass is awful. The first two turns are wasted, and only then can he transform.

Then from the next couple turns he's beating the rest of your units on the enemy phase and occasionally on the player phase. Your units can handle at best two attacks on the enemy phase (being lenient here, by the way!) whereas Volug can handle many, many more.

Zihark and Nolan have little problems with laguz on chapter 3-6. It's Micaiah, Sothe and Jill which do, and Volug is only useful at turn 3. Then the Burger King comes.

They do have problems. Zihark gets easily 2 or 3HKO'd by Tigers and Nolan can't take that many hits from Tigers without healing. The Tigers are cunts, and Volug can handle them better than Nolan can.

Hahahaha.. okay, first off, no one disagreed with me here, in the previous thread. Nolan and Zihark are always supported together. They are useful for the whole game, unlike Volug. Ask anyone you want about this.

Not when they're really underleveled in Part IV, like Volug is likely to be anyway.

[Volug]

Sothe is very useful for the chests, though, and he can Steal.

And he can kill and take hits a lot better than your early units.

[Volug]

Thief and protector guy. He's your best unit until Volug joins.

[Volug]

Leveling up slow as hell and "taking" EXP. Which is what the point concerns.

[Volug]

PROTIP: Seth and Titania are getting very little EXP too.

I've already proved you wrong on this, please don't repeat it again.

Where?

[Volug]

Giving EXP to units who gain less isn't valid, but it provides an opportunity cost. Obviously you're not dumping all your EXP into Volug because TOO MUCH makes your units suffer... but we're not even insinuating that you should give Volug a lot of kills (he can't really kill anyway, but he at least doubles consistently) so yeah.

I wouldn't quit dub this a fail topic, but oh well.

Muarim has huge move, why can't he climb the ledges?

The one being blocked by the Archer? Literally blocked.

That is.. incredible fail.

Three of them increase every turn (on average) while on the other hand, every single non HP or Luck counts for two in his true offensive state.

[Volug]

You never know exact stats with FE anyway. You still have to take its random nature into account even with fixed averages.

[Volug]

Because it's easier Iunno.

[Volug]

Statistics are more accurate than averages.

I look at the average and if it's 12.5 or above I check to see the % chance of having a stat or the stat above. He has a 42.something% chance of having base strength by level 18 and 58.some percent of getting a strength up.

Every turn?

And what the fuck is this. We're talking about averages here. I don't get anything in this post.

Yes, and on average he gets 3.25 stats per level. (I meant level instead of turn).

[Volug]

Hard mode!! Cats are doubling him, maybe even tiger. 1 cat + 1 tiger = death.

In normal mode they don't double him when he has Resolve. In Hard mode I assume they'd barely double him.

I'm pretty sure that a lot of your DB units can be ditched going into part 4. Also, I'd contend that Volug at base level can still make part 4 (I'm not very familiar with enemy stats, so this might not be true), while none of your other beorc units can. He really doesn't even need EXP, and this is a huge point going for him.

He can't above Easy mode. He still gets good EXP from the laguz in 3-6/13, transformed or not.

[FE8 Tier list!]

They're not the only ones entitled to a level or two between each chapter then. So pretty much everyone's on equal grounds as a result.

I hate how the self-made ranking project on FE8 got nowhere on FESS. I calculated like 530K Gold was necessary for a hypothetical S rank so you had like 150K to spend more or less.

[Volug]

This logic is uncool, because Volug has 95% growth in HP and 90% growth in luck. So what are you trying to prove? Those are the less important stats for Volug.

So huge HP growth is trivial now?

He gets HP and Luck every turn hypothetically, so another stat is also likely to increase. Strength, Skill, Speed, Defense, Resistance are the candidates. And whichever of these does increase ends up increasing by two in real battle terms.

[Volug]

But on average you're gaining 3 stats per level.

He has like a 40% chance of not gaining Str by Level 18 and 40% chance of not gaining Spd by Level 17 so... he's fine in the stat department.

Not like it matters, his bases destroy your other unts' stats. And every single strength up he gets counts for two.

Resolve on his untransformed state helps too in 3-6; he'll gain levels fast and prevent from getting doubled and have the ability to survive better, especially transformed. Besides, who doesn't want Earth support? lol

Lack of Canto shouldn't even be a point with him. Canto is a point for the mounted units which have it, not a point against if you lack it because then it's a point against 70% of the cast. Not like it matters, because if it's a point against your units and a neutral (not praise, not hurt) point for mounts then it's about equal either way.

It can't. I've explained this. Because Volug is going to be ditched at Part 4. Your other units are not.

This depends heavily on the player especially considering the amount of variety you have to choose from in Part IV.

[Power Team]

1. Aless

2. Carrion

3. Raven

4. Gerik

5. Oguma

6. Oscar

7. Dieck

8. Ike

9. Tibarn

10. Sain

11. Sety

12. Alan (FE6)

Not in order of preference or anything but yeah.

This is pretty much favorites. :S

[FE8 Tier list!]

Or we could argue and see if you have anything to counter our logic with. After all, you brought it.

[So...let's talk tiers.]

B2BD said stuff to the extent of "Roger whoever won't be getting Merc anyway." Why won't they be getting Merc? In fact, why is this even relevant to the tier list? In a debate, sure, because we're not judging them and a fair amount of bias needs to be put in to make your points. In a tier list, it's completely different.

Judge them based on how well they can do as a Merc, but penalize them at the same time for taking away a potential class for the others to use; don't assume they'll never get Merc. etc etc

Merc probably isn't the best option for Castor Oil, but for Darros, it's the ONLY option.

Is another point I'm referencing. If I'm interpreting it correctly, then it should be saying that Darros is only decent as a Mercenary. Which is a point against him because of your latter point (at least, how I believe it should be viewed; if units are viable without Merc, then should be penalized equally but also praised because they're good enough that they don't need it).

(I view this pretty much as similar to what FE3 Player is saying).

The "lower tiers are sucking upper tiers' dicks" part was also in reference to the Harken/Karel scenario, where Karel supposedly "harms the team" by not allowing you to recruit Harken. He doesn't harm the team considering neither are guaranteed use; he's disallowing another unit from existing. Harken is doing the same, they should receive equal punishment; quality of either unit should have little to do with it especially since the argument is irrelevant in the judging of a tier list.

If (and I heavily doubt this will happen, by the way), hypothetically, we find out something weird about Harken that puts him around Karel's spot, then we nullify the fact that Karel is pushed down because he's preventing a superior unit from existing; it's these changes that should make situations like this a punishment for both instead of one or neither. Because then he's no longer blocking out a superior unit, he's just blocking out another unit. Even if it places Harken significantly below Karel's spot nothing should change about Karel, because the main point is they're blocking out another unit.

Sylvan's post... is also a perfect summation.

And I'd heavily appreciate it if you'd calm down. It's just a video game; we've both been repeating a lot of points, and at the risk of sounding smug I don't see why you can't keep as calm a head as I've been doing during the entire thing about the debate.

And one more thing... I'm still waiting to hear what you think especially since me, FE3 Player, Sylvan, and slax are basically saying what I'm saying and disagree with your methods of judging the list.

[OMG it's a tier list]

For me it tends to save him on enemy phase untransformed. Transformed he's pretty unstoppable with it.

[OMG it's a tier list]

Really, has no one considered giving him Tauroneo's Resolve for the laguz chapter? :<

[So...let's talk tiers.]

except for the fact that Caesar can actually be a half decent fighter WITHOUT murdering his durability. lol 0% def base growth. Roger sucks as anything BUT armor/Hunter. And even then he sucks.

Actually, ignore that earlier point considering that I got Caesar's Skill and Speed mixed up. haha

(10% is relatively slight; it's +3 in the long run (+1 in the short/intermediate term and +2 in a bit longer period of time) although caesar has a load more HP)

EDIT: "He's not getting Merc" is completely bullshit and I won't try to argue it again because it should be a pretty basic principle that giving x person the Mercenary class involves an opportunity cost and everyone should be punished equally for having you make one, as opposed to the crappier units getting the shit thrown on them and sucking the upper tier's dicks. You claim you don't say this, but you are and you are completely unable to admit it. The tier list then becomes biased in favor of upper tier units (when a tier should regard the fact that the upper tiers exist, but not use it at all as a fact). In fact, you don't seem to flinch giving Darros the Mercenary class even though Wolf and Sedgar basically come in a chapter or two after you can reclass...

And because of that I should leave this topic, but I probably won't. We'll see where this takes me.

[FE8 Tier list!]

It could've been stuff from Jap -> Eng but we should definitely tell Twilks. >_>

... but I've pretty much seen the light. Ewan, regardless of the route, has three chapters to gain 9 levels with a high EXP gain rate. And even then he has another two levels before he ends up beating Knoll which is the point...