[Least Favorite Part]

I was really vague about what I was referencing XD It was the Ilyana/Micaiah/Laura thing.

I use Sothe to bait him anyway. But as I recall even with a level 5 Micaiah with 2 Speed boosts or so (which is just about average) she's been getting doubled in HM and NM.

[Haar]

I didn't say she'd be one-rounding him, she just makes better use of the kill, especially considering she's in 2-3.

But she's barely doing anything to him. It's almost completely inconvenient to let her kill because Haar makes a ridiculously easy kill on him.

Because he's an awesome fighter means he gets massive favoritism? What about Nephenee, Brom, Calill, Heather, Marcia, Elincia, and Mordecai, where are their kills? And eventually the CRK's as well?

Yes. Because his defense lets him block the fort a lot better, and he doesn't have a meter to run off of like Mordecai. Brom's fine with the other side anyway, even though his speed/skill/defense aren't quite as good as Haar's. Give him a vulnerary and he can EASILY hold his own; you really can't say the same about the rest.

[Haar]

Marcia will be doing absolute minimal damage to the 2-P boss. Have you played 2-P in recent years?

I never said he'd be getting 40 EXP per kill. But he's still getting a massive amount of kills, and he's easily the best candidate for it considering his offense and defense, even if there are thunder mages around.

[Haar]

A single level? Are you _joking_. Hell, he probably gains about 60% of a level up during P, at the very least, and he'll be doing a lot of killing in E to go pretty well beyond that. 2-E is a huge chapter.

[Ashera has 13 lives]

Confirmed Triangle Attack the most Broken Feature in a FE Game... (However it didn't Work on Ashard, Yes I tried)

No, it's not. >_>

I'm pretty sure you have to go out of your way, not only with which units you use, but your entire formation if you want to successfully pull one off. And it's just a critical, so what if it bypasses Mantle?

[Haar]

I'm not sure his playing the game matters when he's right.

Besides, it's Mekkah. He doesn't need to play to know his shit. ;D

Also Haar has his entire utility in the P and E chapters of Part II over Ike. And the entire flier utility thing and the entire level lead thing.

[Blood Type?]

I'm pretty sure I'm B. I wouldn't bet against being O, though, because my dad is.

[Haar]

I think Haar is a pretty cool guy, eh has 1~2 range and doesn't afraid of anything.

Fixing it for you ;)

[Least Favorite Part]

2-E was easy if you didn't play aggressive.

1-3 was annoying as hell. The boss comes in doubling Micaiah too, doing damn near an OHKO's worth on Hard Mode and Normal Mode wasn't TOO bad. The enemies nearby also double Nolan if he hadn't grown enough Speed and Strength in his past level up or two. And they do a lot of damage on top of that.

[FE8 Tier list!]

Wendy?.......!?

Because like four base with a 30% growth is amazing.

[Haar]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I think a cheap Bowgun handles the laguz quite nicely.

[Least Favorite Part]

The appearance of the Mercs was pretty much the only thing that it had going for it; I had thought of that, admittedly.

At any rate, I'll look into Ike/Elincia's conversation a bit more. Part 2 seemed to be more like a "let's see how Crimea is doing after FE9!" type thing as I think about it more, which isn't totally relevant but it does give us more desired info on the continent.

[50 Cent's game is looking better and better every day]

Am I the only one who can't wait to see it? I can honestly see it being "so bad it's funny."

[DS emu problem?]

If it helps, the EU version ran a lot more smoothly and less crashes than the JP version.

[Haar]

Aside from his HUGE availability and his HUGE utility during most of that availability, right.

[Darkest FE game]

I never looked into FE5's plot too much; I know the basics, not the specifics.

FE4's is definitely darkest. Although, I'd say the darkest part of FE9 is drugging the Laguz (a whole race of people, no less) and Ashnard's insanity.

[Haar]

Oh, lol I forgot

Oscar only loses 2 move in Oliver's mansion, and I always have Geoffrey take the east in the swamp.

[Favourtie class and promotion?]

Mercenary/Ranger/Heroes/Vanguards. I like to think they're all in the same group.

[Haar]

Titania and Oscar are good, Kieran and Geoffrey are decent. Sigrun sucks, but Marcia, Elincia and Tanith are good...

You're not bringing Pallies to Micaiah's route anyway unless you're mentally unstable.

[Haar]

-Its enough for him to avoid now and then.

Still unreliable.

-And because I think it's more of a challenge. And it gives more experience to Jill and Zihark, and forces me to use other members of the Dawn Brigade. So they get more EXP. Like Aran, or Meg, or some other obscure DB character I may feel like using for that specific runthrough.

If you want to really challenge yourself, try going through the game without Haar, Sothe, or Nolan. Taking Jill away is relatively minor in comparison to taking the latter two away.

[Haar]

His avoid isn't that great. The thunder mages have maybe 50 or 55 hit on him, at least, last I recall.

You recruit Jill to Ike's team? Why... the Dawn Brigade needs her. >_>

[Least Favorite Part]

I don't see how it's really helping her. She's still fairly weak, and other character are still better at wielding heavy weapons.

It helps her a lot... other characters being better at it is irrelevant etc but her speed is still quite a bit ahead even with heavier weapons.

If she's attacked, which, unlike Eirika, she doesn't have to be, for the millionth time.

"She doesn't have to be" sounds like a huge copout for her lack of defense and evade.

Knights hit her hard and neither class dies so easily since they have lances.

Cavaliers can die pretty easily, Knights might require two rounds. It's still better than all your other physical units and Rapier drains less AS than Armorslayer.

My original argument was who is better, not who is better offensively.

Nope, you said "who was better at her job," which deals with offense.

Lolwut? Getting Micaiah to level 20 by the end of part 1 is hella easy in Easy, Normal, or Hard mode. Then she has Paragon access in part 3 and 4 + staves to get her to 20 again. And how the hell is she still level 1 after two freaking maps?

Level 20 in Hard Mode? Unless you give her a lot of specialized attention, it's hard to get. I barely got her to Level 20 when I played WITH specialized attention; seriously you gain like 15 EXP per kill in hard mode.

The second 20 is tough to get without specialized attention because she's got all of... four chapters... Chapter 6 is where she's too busy healing (12 EXP per mend staff, which means it takes like 9 turns to get a level up). Chapter 12 has her too busy healing with a Physic or a Mend although she can fit an occasional attack... which I don't entirely doubt; only somewhat. Chapter 13 doesn't really let her attack so all she can do is Physic, Sleep, or Purge... I think I'm missing a DB chapter in there somewhere, but I don't think she has that much of a chance to get levels. Level 10 at best after all this, and I'm being pretty lenient; the kill EXP in FE10 isn't hot.

Part IV, she'll be focused more on healing than attack. DEFINITELY... she's too frail. She can still probably fit an occasional (god damn how the fuck do you spell this word) but she'll be, once again, focused on healing or getting to Stefan's spot. Being lenient again, Level 15 after this chapter.

So 15/15/1 makes sense by her promotion time.

Considering you'll be using staves a lot and you have Discipline, that's hardly an issue.

How fast does staff EXP grow iunno? Matrona is somewhat useless of a staff after you get fortifies or physics anyway, but it gives you a level up so...

That's still pretty good. One-shotting enemies is a pretty good deal.

Micaiah has a hard time doing that after Part I, once again. Weakener at best, but other mages can one round (Callil) pretty easily because of their doubling capabilities.

During Part I she's the only candidate. But they're not very high in number to begin with (cavalier classes at least), at least not until Chapter 10 or 6-2. 6-1 has a few here and there too. (7 has none, I'm sure 8 has one or two, 9 is a shitty chapter lol)

Scenario: Nolan can one-round that soldier with a double attack. Problem: Nolan is low on HP, so if he takes the counter, he's dead. Solution: Micaiah uses Sacrifice. Now Nolan can safely kill. If Laura is nearby, she can heal Micaiah. And hey, what if Micaiah could have one-shotted that Soldier? Instead, Nolan got that experience and Micaiah still got 10 experience. Everyone wins.

Situational scenario. That doesn't apply to every single instance that ever happens in FE10 ever.

Moulder, Natasha, Ross, and Lute aren't seeing enemy attacks nearly as often. Vanessa is arguable since she still has access to Javelins.

Lute can dodge here and there, Ross can't until he promotes once and gets a few levels in that promotion. Ross' best weapons are in melee anyway, and a Hand Axe takes two off his AS (four before promotion) - which is already low to begin with. The Hatchet doesn't do much damage anyway, at least it starts to lag (it breaks eventually, despite 50 uses or so) so he pretty much relies on Iron Axes after his first promotion.

Vanessa... is irrelevant now. Considering we agree she's better than Eirika.

They can in the early chapters, which is where she might actually be performing at the same level of her team.

She performs on more or less the same level as her team until they all promote, which is at like Chapter 12 or 13. And once she promotes, she doesn't have a hard time catching up.

Range > Melee when you're frail, which both are compared to the rest of their team. Micaiah can one-shot often anyway, so she usually won't see a counter attack.

On the enemy phase, Melee > Range considering how 70% of the enemies attack from melee on enemy phase anyway.

Micaiah can one shot? Aside from Armors and Mounts, what the hell kind of parallel universe do you live in?

She can, but that's because it's her only option.

And...?

She doubles within 1-2 levels and doesn't have to eat counter attacks. She's also powering another member of the team.

1-2 levels is just an increase of Speed to 7. This isn't doubling, sir.

Garcia is more durable and has good ranged options and pretty great supports. Garcia > Eirika.

Garcia has NO speed, lol. He can't double, which is a detriment to his entire offense. On top of that Garcia eats a lot more enemy attacks than Eirika does because of his lack of evade and Eirika's damage still tends to be even with his due to her ability to double.

By the way, I'm done here. This is obviously getting nowhere.

Clearly you don't know me

[Least Favorite Part]

You're the one that mentioned giving her heavier weapons. Are you denying that now? Her Con is never very good.

Chapter 1-2. Steel Sword weighs her down. Everyone else's offense isn't that much greater if it's greater at all unless your name is Seth, so the Steel Sword's boost in might is negligible. Her speed picks up later, and then she can afford heavier weapons.

Enemies have defense. Eirika has WTD. She may kill easily, but she's also killed easily.

And Micaiah isn't?

Cavaliers don't even show up for a while. When they show up Eirika's durability is decent enough to allow her to get out of the situation decent, and her supports are built up by this time as well. The rest of the knights are random enemies and bosses, which shouldn't be too hard for her.

You say this, yet you also have mentioned tier lists. Tiers aren't based on offense alone. Units aren't judged on offense alone. BY the time Moulder promoted, he's better than her offensively anyway.

Being better at offense for 2/3 of the game > better better for 1/3 of the game. Eirika's offense is clearly superior.

Tier list was arguing the overall quality, the original argument (from you) was that a million other people did better than Eirika in offense.

Yes she is. Not amazing, but decent.

God damn I'm too lazy to get the actual numbers. I see Micaiah's promotion being something like 15/15/1 while being lenient on the second 15.

And why shouldn't she be?

To get from a C to an SS in the span of five chapters requires heavy, heavy abuse and heavy, heavy use of Arms Scrolls.

Yes, there is. Lehran comes with it.

And a Fortify staff isn't already helping you because...?

It would be pointless to re-describe how she helps in part 1.

Yes, it would. Because her main use, as far as I'm aware, is using Thani to one shot enemy mounts and armors. Her damage with the Thani tome is probably a two round, even though she's restricted to the player phase for attacking anyway.

Sacrifice? She heals 14 HP with it. On average she gets another HP point at Level... 4. So now she heals 15. The most she'll ever be healing is 21 with Sacrifice, and she's still dead in another hit if you go full way. And she's very close to death even if you go part of the way.

And Eirika is almost always the frailest unit on your team anyway.

If you decide to rule characters like Vanessa (heavily bow weak, heavily axe user weak and you'll be seeing axe users for a little while if my memory serves me correctly), Moulder, Ross, Natasha, and Lute then sure.

Low defenses and a sword lock. Good speed, but lances and swords can still hit her fairly often. Oh, and no ranged option.

Swords can't hit her fairly often, and they're not even doing that much damage despite the low/average defenses. Oh come on, she does have supports.

No ranged option is only a minor strike against her overall. Micaiah has no real melee option unless she's up against an archer, because she gets raped at melee range.

Anyone can calculate the damage one enemy will do and put Micaiah in that range knowing it won't kill her.

Same goes for Eirika? Eirika can probably do more on the enemy phase than Micaiah can, overall.

Neimi can get an automatic support with Colm, boosting her offensive capabilities and his.

And? She's still not doubling and Bows have just as much might as Swords.

Garcia is more durable and doing the same amount of damage in one hit > two hits.

I'm pretty sure that Garcia, at best, has a negligible lead. Eirika ends up evading more (the chapter he arrives in is primarily dominated by Axe users) and hell, Garcia's 20% Speed means he can't reliably double as you go along. In select cases against armors, but not against common enemies.

Ross grows uber fast. He gets 30+ experience just for hitting.

I dunno about you but in order to get Ross to Level 10 by Joshua's chapter I had to give him some pretty specialized attention.

Vanessa is all that is saving Ross and that village.

But she sucks against the Brigands. This doesn't matter anyway, since I clearly stated that Vanessa > Eirika afterwards.

[Least Favorite Part]

I'm getting lazy, we're coming to somewhat of a consensus here (Ephraim/Eirika is not quite as good as Eirika/Eirika which is something we can all agree on) but I hardly see Eirika/Eirika as worse than Micaiah. Only proportionally worse at best, but if you can handle your own game, you're better than someone who has a hard time handling her own game even if proportions are different between the two; something I adhere to.

Also, to be somewhat on topic: did anyone see any point in Part II? Notably plot wise. I'd be happy to hear any reasons why... Something tells me that there would still be Crimean involvement in the war even without Part II happening because they were treading on Crimean borders in that battle, but is it just to see the state of Crimea or what? Because plot-wise, Part II is really close to Part IV as least favorite.

Only countering Micaiah/Eirika relevant points now. Including comparisons and such... so the entire Pent thing I no longer care about because I can't get that point across (the main point was "why is Micaiah in the backlines? Maybe it's because she's FRAIL not entirely because she's a mage that can attack from a distance.")

You argued that swords are cheaper than Light magic, I countered by saying Micaiah's weapons effectively cost nothing. Heavier weapons still lower Eirika's avoid and will occasionally prevent her from doubling. Not to often, but it happens.

It never happens. Give me an instance it will aside from giving Eirika a Steel Sword at the very beginning (where she has a Rapier anyway).

Did you miss the WTD part? Don't forget that Knights also happen to have good defense and Cavaliers tend to be high on HP.

22 x2 is still a lot of damage early on, subject to increase.

Chapter 1: At the start there are 3 fighters, 3 soldiers, and the boss, a Knight. At turn 3 arrives 2 fighters and a soldier. Ok, I was off, but there are still just as many lance users as axe users.

So she can handle the axe users fine. Franz and Gilliam can take care of the Lancers while Franz helps out with the Axe users.

Nope, but bosses are stronger than regular enemies. Point is, she isn't the best candidate for the boss, especially because of WTD.

And...? The Boss still gets killed pretty easily by Eirika. With Seth you'd have to waste uses of a Silver Lance + about a level up's worth of EXP that can EASILY go to Eirika.

Only offense isn't an accurate comparison.

Then it's not a fully accurate comparison. You're missing my point.

I guess you're missing the point where I'm comparing Eirika's job, offense, to everyone else who has a job in offense (ie, everyone in the entire game at some point or another) in just the role of an offensive unit. I'm not comparing quality (Moulder wins here) as a whole, I'm comparing quality of offense. Where Moulder loses.

Almost no one is one-rounding the dragons. Archsages are, some strong axe users might be, but Micaiah is still doing great damage to Red Dragons and decent damage to White.

She's not doing decent damage to white dragons at all.

Then there's Physic, Ashera Staff, Matrona, and the ever-friendly Mend. Still plenty of uses for Micaiah. Plus, Mist might be taking care of some spirits with swords.

Matrona implies you managed to get her to SS in staves by then.

There's an Ashera Staff in this game?

Sacrifice can be a lifesaver and it's great for milking some extra experience. Auto A support for +15 avoid and +2 attack with the character who is now the best on your team and a required unit is pretty sweet. She's not helping your team as much because it's easier. She's still helping, just not as much because her abilities aren't as valued anymore. She shines in the toughest parts of the game, and that is a good thing.

She doesn't "shine" in the toughest parts of the game. I prefer to use her when she's really low maintenance in the latter parts of the game as opposed to really high maintenance in the earlier parts of the game. Can't say the same about Eirika can you, where she's consistently a low maintenance character.

Sacrifice is not to be completely ignored. Her offense is good, not great, because she does massive damage on her phase. Considering the fact she can usually take one hit, she might even see enemy phase action for luring in ranged fighters.

... uh...

The only reason she has for seeing enemy phase action is if you put her in a pile of mages or if you screw up in defending her.

Gilliam is much more durable. Garcia is better offensively. Neimi and Ross have decent ranged abilites. Vanessa has flier utility. Eirika's supports aren't even guaranteed, especially if you go Ephraim's route. Micaiah has the most guaranteed support in her game.

Neimi's range capabilities are not "decent," she doesn't do that much damage and doesn't double for like five levels.

Garcia can't double. Eirika can, and they end up doing more or less the same damage as a result.

Ross isn't doubling either, and his ranged capabilities aren't completely reliable due to accuracy. He's also getting doubled by certain enemies, while I'm at it.

Vanessa's performance in Chapter 2 sucks, that's what I was getting at. From there on, after a slight bit of help, Vanessa is indeed > Eirika. Especially with an Anima support triangle.

[Least Favorite Part]

Don't worry, the exp the BK kills is translated into BEXP.

I don't think he even gets EXP to be translated into BEXP in the first place.