Legault!

I apologize for sharing some of my thoughts on Lunatic in a topic dedicated to Lunatic. If you're willing to put away that snarling elitism for a rainy day, we might even be able to have a civil conversation. I was just about to explain to you, for instance, how Lunatic with "less-efficient" strategies isn't even feasible. But I'd like to get your permission first.

You can't throw a typical 10/5 unit into the middle of enemy territory and expect reliable survival; that's the edge Nosferatanks have over all other options in the game, and their prowess only grows as the game progresses. What few difficult maps exist in Hard are either rout (23, 24) or filled with sturdy and hard-hitting promoted enemies (19, 20). A Galeforcer or Deliverer is going to be adequate at best in these situations. A Nosferatank can plow through them effortlessly.

So far we've got brisk = not solo and brisk = not turtling. Nosferatanking isn't turtling, so that thankfully isn't an issue. Not letting an overpowered unit solo seems very odd -- it's not like Seth isn't allowed to solo. In fact, he's so good at it that he's banned on the FE8 list.

Talking about total time helps demonstrate the "brisk" pace a Nosferatank run flies at. Nothing more. I'm in no way suggesting we should evaluate units based on how quickly the game can be completed. But I think there's been enough attacking me for one day. I'd like for someone to clarify what "brisk" means so we can resolve these tensions.

I get the feeling that was supposed to be clever. If "brisk pace" has some definition that eludes me and somehow excludes beating the game in under an hour with Nosferatanks, I'd love to be caught up to speed.

Considering Dark Knight doesn't have a battle-heal tome, Sorcerer's durability is actually far higher in practice. It would be one thing to do this because Nosferatanks are broken; that's something I'd sympathize with. It's another to argue in earnest that Cordelia and Cherche are better units than Tharja, the second-best user of the most game-breaking tome in Fire Emblem.

It's something that can be easily tested; getting up to Ch.8 takes less than a half-hour. Of course you wouldn't. Dual blocks are just a small part of the reason her survivability, even early on, isn't a problem. Tharja has 40 HP. Enemy has 50 HP and does ten damage, Tharja does 20x2 damage. Player gets extremely unlucky and critical activates, knocking down Tharja to 10 HP. Vengeance activates, Tharja now does 35+20 damage, knocking the enemy out and getting back up to 35 HP. These numbers are entirely arbitrary. The reason Vengeance makes Nosferatanking so simple is that even if the player is to get unlucky and take more damage than is usually comfortable, Nosferatu's absorbed HP only increases as HP goes down. It makes death virtually impossible. Also consider the snowball effect of Nosferatanking experience: a great tank like Tharja begins by soloing small armies. She gets lots of experience and lots of level-ups, which means lots of stats very quickly. This means she can solo even larger armies comfortably, etc. Ignoring the obvious hyperbole of this post (it's impossible to one-turn every map with one unit), Cordelia's defenses are only okay and she has no in-battle healing option, meaning that when it comes to rout maps, she can't be expected to solo large armies on her own. Again, the tradeoff is slightly faster kill boss completions versus far more reliable rout completions. You'd think that on an efficiency run, the latter would be more highly valued.

Vengeance at 10/5. Awakening Hard enemies have consistently poor hit rates, which gives Tharja plenty of time to recover. Dual blocks. 12 base speed + 60% speed growth + Awakening Hard enemies being slow and easy to double. This isn't idle theorycraft; it's something I've tested plenty of times before. It's not hard to try out, either -- I'd recommend spending the twenty minutes getting up to Ch.8 and use Tharja seriously.

It's almost like this isn't an LTC list. First-gen units who have access to Galeforce: Lissa, Sumia, Mariabelle, Cordelia, Olivia, Say'ri Note that only two units here start off as PK -- the rest (excluding Say'ri) are going to have to level up to ten, waste 2.5K on a Second Seal, level up to ten, waste 2.5K on a Master Seal, and finally level up another 15 levels. That takes time and won't be happening best-case scenario until well into the campaign. Also note that these units, again excluding Say'ri, all have offense ranging from terrible to thoroughly mediocre. Deliverer is decent for a handful of kill boss maps. It can shave off a handful of turns in maps like Ch.16, Ch.21, and Ch.22. But this isn't an LTC list and saving a couple of turns is much less efficient and much more risky than Nosferatank -> win. Again, this is operating under LTC assumptions, where a point or two of extra movement is somehow more valuable than invincibility.

A counter is just fine -- Nosferatu will heal that right up like it ain't no thing. Critical hits aren't a concern until late into the campaign, by which point Tharja has an S-Rank with someone and killer stats. For extra overkill, she gets Vengeance at 10/5.

"Not killable" is something of a tall order for most units -- you can't just sit down any old pair of comrades in the middle of Ch.23 and expect to come out unscathed. Nosferatu is unique in this regard. Enemies are too numerous and carry too many forged weapons on later maps. Nosferatu is anything but overrated. I am looking at the whole pie. Compare Tharja to any unit above her: she doesn't require extra resources to become a dark mage, has decent enough bases, comes with a Nosferatu tome, and gets access to infinite and cheap game-breaking weapons just five chapters later, at which point she solos the rest of the campaign. Henry and Miriel are more nuanced discussions, so let's table those for a moment. Tharja comes equipped with Hex and Anathema right off the bat -- hit is rarely an issue, especially considering True Hit and ginormous Pair Up bonuses. Skill potions are dirt cheap if you're extra concerned. More importantly, hit isn't all that relevant: you can throw Tharja into entire armies and expect her to reliably survive. Less hit than someone like Lon'qu, sure; but because of her virtual invincibility, she'll be attacking and counter-attacking much more often.

Lunatic without exploits like Nosferatanking manages to be even more tedious, surprisingly. Evenly raised teams get creamed on later maps, so the only options are a) grinding, or b) dishing all experience to 3-4 units. Lunatic is just sort of a bad mode. Lunatic+ makes it look pretty good in comparison though. EDIT: I have no idea if this site is okay with curse words. Post now rated E for Everyone.

I am aware. Giving all available experience to MU!Sorcerer is the most efficient way to play without question. Giving all experience to Tharja / MU!(not Sorcerer) is the second most efficient way to play. Building up a team of decent Nosferatanks like Miriel, Henry, and Libra is the third most efficient way to play. Cherche, since we're focusing on her at the moment, is a perfectly good unit who still needs to be careful about effective weapons and can't rout maps on her own. Rout is one of the only two map objectives in Awakening. Nosferatanking destroys both rout and kill leader. I'm not understanding the problem.

Those pictures Paperblade posted are mine, by the way. Hope you all appreciated the hilarious MU name. Lots of discussion here, but there's a little too much talk about irrelevant units like Panne / Nowi and too little about Chrom / MU. Those are the only two units you need. General strategy for beating Lunatic in around an hour: -female MU -S-Rank Chrom -give all free kills in the first five maps to MU -before Ch.5, sell all the rest of your weapons and forge some gnarly tomes for MU (-optional: SpotPass a second seal and prepare for MU!Dark Mage fun times early) -use the Ch.8 Second Seal to reclass MU into a Dark Mage -solo the game up until Ch.13 with MU / Chrom and Frederick / Kellam; MU can basically do this alone by now -sell the farm and buy fifty Nosferatu tomes -win the game The final boss is a little tricky. Forged Waste + S-Rank Chrom support works reliably enough.

Okay. From the OP regarding how this tier list deals with efficiency concerns: "We are moving at a brisk pace, but this isn't an absolute minimum LTC tier list. " This clearly needs some revision, since, for some reason, Awakening's Nosferatanks aren't all huddled at the tip top of the list. Nosferatanking is bar-none the most effective way to complete the game: on Lunatic, much less Hard, throw Nosferatank into battle -> win works in 95% of cases (100% for MU!Sorcerer). As far as pace goes, the Nosferatank route is certainly "brisk" enough: the game can be completed in under an hour without the need for any planning or brain power using this approach. On an LTC list, Dark Mages and Sorcerers would obviously have less utility than they do in a "general efficiency" list like this one. But this isn't an LTC list. Soloing entire armies with a competent Nosferatank is both brisk and without question the easiest way to play (break) Awakening, so I guess I'm just wondering why we're wasting time arguing Cherche vs. Tharja when Tharja can solo the game.