Legault!

Galeforce can save you a handful of turns in drafts and absolute LTC, so it's okay there. People who actually play those modes are in the very small minority. Nothing about that is "smug."

"If she gets hit enough times" assumes that the player has inexplicably decided to de-equip Vengeance. Her defense is fine considering that taking more damage means getting more HP back with Nosferatu. She doesn't need to dodge 100% of the time to survive 100% of the time. And who's talking about max-hit forging? Just a simple +10 Hit works wonders. Hitting over 9 out of 10 times, doubling everyone, dodging frequently, healing with every attack, and having Vengeance sounds pretty good to me. Every unit needs supports. You still haven't demonstrated where these mystical hit problems are coming from. Skill potions, (modest) forging, Pair Up bonuses, Hex and Anathema (which you didn't include in your calculations), and she doesn't need to hit everything to solo the game. A miss every once in a while is peachy. There is anecdotal evidence for everything. There is anecdotal evidence that Ricken is a beast when trained up. There is anecdotal evidence that FE8 is a good game. Anecdotal evidence doesn't mean much.

I feel we should judge all skills based on drafts.

Two things: 1. Fire Emblem is a variable series with variable hit /avoid and growth rates. Even if you tell me how do perform a strategy step-by-step, there will still be instances where I need to think on my feet. 2. Assume you're correct. Brainless completion every time > brainless completion every time past the first time. Also consider who this tier list is for: people who know LTC strats inside and out, or less extreme players?

Probably worth reading again. A) I'm teasing dondon, and B) I think it's perfectly fair to argue that brain power should be considered, as intuitively people consider mashing start more efficient than stressing over absolute LTC. If I have a cake why can't I also eat the cake, isn't that why I bought the cake Elwind is, as I said, pretty useful for the interim between Ch.11 (when Nosferatu will likely run out) and Ch.13. These hit concerns have yet to be solidified past theorycraft; Pair Up exists, Anathema and Hex exist, skill potions exist, True Hit exists, forging exists.

FE8's cast is horrible, why is it even remotely close to FE6 let alone 7 Man Syrene and Forde and Kyle and Knoll and Vanessa and Colm and Moulder and Artur and Natasha and Tethys and Myrrh were all such amazing and fleshed-out characters I had to look up half their names while typing this post

1. Galeforce blows. 2. You really can't consider skills without context, but if you want to do this, Rally Speed is better. 3. As mentioned, Galeforce only works once per turn. Considering that the majority of combat takes place during Enemy Phase, doubling Player Phase productivity is sort of neat, but not at the cost of having to go through lolDF for fifteen levels.

Stop living in the past, dondon. This is a new wave of tier theorists here who recognize that "efficiency" involves brain power because mashing start is far more efficient than slaving away at your 3DS to reduce total turn counts by five.

Tharja has zero problems post-Ch.13 and her earlygame "hit" "problems" are trivially dealt with. I'm not really sure what Stahl does other than being a decent mobile tank (60% defense growth is sweet). Elwind is cool for the Ch.9-12 interim where Tharja has one total Nosferatu tome available.

Okay hang on, what the fuck is this Hex, Anathema, Pair Up bonuses, Elwind has 95 hit, literally True Hit

I'm not sure what this topic is trying to prove. Most reasonable people say Galeforce is terrible because a) Dark Flier is an awful class and wholly inferior to Falcon Knights, b) Galeforce doesn't come until 10/15 for Pegasus Knights and 10/10/15 for non-PKs who can reclass, and c) it's not going to be one of your five best skills for final DLC, where all of this breeding actually comes into play.

We can debate Sully / Tharja later, since this might be closer than I expected. Tharja > Stahl should be a total no-brainer. I'd also like responses from Inui for a) where Donnel should go, and b) why we're assuming Donnel gets Arms Scrolls when everyone wants them.

Rally Spectrum is a cool skill, but 10/15 is still a long ways to go even for a Veteran unit. Nosferatu destroys Rally Spectrum. Who cares about children.

Panne getting the second seal before Donnel is definitely better honestly, but considering Sorcerer!Avatar breaks Awakening's spine, these priority arguments are silly. Where exactly does Inui want Donnel to end up? I might have missed it. EDIT: Everyone wants Arms Scrolls. Everyone. Chrom wants it for Javelins, Falcon Knights want it for staff utility, Lissa and Mariabelle want it for tomes, etc.

Plenty of enemies in Hard have beast-slaying weapons and Sully!Chrom simply can't tank entire armies. They can blitz (by which I mean move quickly) around the map, but won't get the same level of combat exposure as Tharja!Literally Anyone. Chrom honestly wants FeMU or Sumia before Sully, but assuming Chrom!Sully S-Rank at the beginning of Chapter 12, consider Tharja gets infinite Nosferatu access at the beginning of Chapter 14 and will likely have a B-support by this point.

A Chrom!Sully "wall of death" is mitigated by mediocre 1-2 range (javelins in this game are bad) and a lack of in-battle healing like Nosferatu. Not seeing Sully > Tharja at all. And as Inui points out, Panne - as good as she is - doesn't reach the same level of move -> end turn invincibility that Tharja gets due to a plethora of weaknesses. She's amazing and arguably above Tharja, but Tharja certainly deserves S. I am unwilling to budge on this one. EDIT: Also, for those saying that Donnel is bad because Panne has "second seal priority" I have an important news flash: Avatar wants that second seal so, so bad. I think we need to end these net versus gross discussions right here and now and assume all units get equal hypothetical access to the first second seal.

Paralogue 1 is totally doable without grinding on Lunatic+ -- you can even get Donnel his requisite level. All you need to do is 1. reset until no one in the southeast has Counter 2. reset until none of the archers have pass / Counter Due to a quirk in enemy AI, the second thief (the one that goes for the Rescue staff i.e. the item on P1 you actually need) won't start running until you pass a certain point. That means that once you deal with the aggressive starting location grunts, you can chip away at the rest of the enemy forces at your leisure. Forged tomes and weapons a must. Beyond P1, though, you'll basically need grinding. Lunatic+ is an absolutely terrible mode, probably the worst mode in FE history, and anyone who defends it is dumb (Othin).

To be fair Inui, I'm totally on your side in these discussions / flame wars, but there's an apparent contradiction in saying 1. Donnel is easy to train because of lolHard enemies 2. Donnel's investment is worthwhile If the mode is full of trash enemies, which it is, then Donnel becoming amazing means less when others can perform his role with less babying. I can see him bumping up no higher than Basilio, since Virion is better.

What is this post. Awakening has more fanservice and T&A than any other game in the series. If anything, it needed to tone it down on "sexy characters" because I find it very hard to take this game seriously partly due to the outrageous character designs. I have nothing to say about the actual topic because all of my disappointments are non-trivial.

Someone please explain to me why Tharja is below Sully / Stahl. They join earlier and have mounted range (less important because lolAwakening), but their offense tapers off pretty substantially later on. Tharja solos the game past Ch.13 and is your out-and-out best non-Avatar mage in a game where mages are amazing.

@Interceptor: Tharja's luck is indeed hideous, but I wonder if this is really a problem. For hit, see: Anathema / Hex / Pair Up / skill potions. For critical evade, see: lolHard enemies. Tharja's avoid is fine as it is and she doesn't particularly mind less-than-perfect avoid given her Nosferatanking utility. Tharja certainly has flaws. So does Avatar. What should be asked is whether or not her flaws warrant a B-tier placement. You ought to give her a fair shake next go around.

Maybe not, which is why I said Just to be clear, I'm using the word "exploit" to refer to something that trivializes the game's difficulty with little to no effort. I really can't believe you just compared me using a common video game term to the n-word.

Then we don't disagree and the next step would be better defining "brisk pace."

Except that people don't agree this is an absolute LTC list. We're just repeating old arguments at this point: either it's absolute LTC, or else it's semi-LTC in which case "low turn count" needs to be better defined or else tradeoffs between reliability and speed become subjective.

I've been clear about what I mean by "exploit." If that term isn't to your fancy, replace it with something else and preserve the meaning. I'm not implying any pejoratives.