commonguard

It's probably not a fish, but I'm definitely not an ichthyologist or even a zoologist so I wouldn't know. Does AI really target Marth over other units because he's the Lord? I always thought it was because Marth has lolstats.

Ogma beasting pretty hard here. A 5 turn seems possible with a Rescue use on MU on turn 2. [spoiler=C4 6/74 turns -- 1 Rescue] Master seal -- MU Deployed: DK!MU, Archer!Luke, Cav!Catria, DK!Arran, Julian, Wrys, Palla, Linde, Malicia RP (62 Remaining): Ogma (turn 1) Linde has Taurus Cleared everyone out except this one bandit who has 2 options for targets on the EP. Luke has roughly the same DEF as Palla, is on a fort and is not at WTD... Gotta love Linde's huge Aura chip. Lady!Catria also not bad. I left the armourslayer thief alone for now; he'll move back up soon. Ogma in position to draw a bandit after using the RP. Castor got an Iron bow from Marth. So the Devil thief moved back since we had already visited the village. Catria chips the thief. Luke kills the bandit. MU moves to eliminate bandits en route to Marth and heals. Linde is placed in range of the Devil thief. As in C3x she is a magnet when it comes to EPs. Base Linde with an Angelic Robe needs 1 HP/DEF to survive max STR Devil thieves. My level 7 Linde didn't get such a stat proc so I had to have Taurus on her. The Taurus shard would, under other circumstances, be on MU. RP!Ogma doubles for a considerable amount of damage, even Yubello can kill the bandit now. Yumina heals Ogma who chips the thief for Marth to kill. On the EP, Linde sends the Devil sword to the convoy. This turned out not to be needed. Um.. I think I lost an image or I forgot to screenshot. On the EP here Castor countered with the Iron bow. On the PP Yubello chips the enemy hunter with Fire for Marth to kill. Ogma retrieved the Devil sword and Yumina healed him. The armourslayer thief needs to be dealt with now. Julian moves onto the fort to take the hit. Julian at base is fast to enough to avoid being doubled and durable enough to avoid being OHKO'd. Technically, my Luke can tank two hits just fine. I also messed up Linde's positioning here. She's supposed to be 1D of the rightmost fort so Malicia can move onto the fort and heal her on this turn and the next. Oh well. MU moves into range of 2 of the enemies and a bandit about to spawn from the fort and heals. (Technically he's in range of some enemies to the south but he isn't in their aggro range.) The bandit from the fort will attack Lady!Catria. MU then kills the hunter blocking Marth's path. Ogma recruits Sirius, gives him the Devil sword and attacks the bandit for Marth to kill. Catria finishes the bandit off. Arran will block off the fort. (Arran used the save point on the turn before. Yea, he didn't do a whole lot this map.) Luke and Linde kill the Armourslayer thief. After this Wrys and Malicia plug up the forts. Palla didn't do much after she killed the hunter on turn one. But she's back to help out with the boss area. She kills the hunter and MU kills the handaxe bandit. If MU had attacked the Silver axe bandit he wouldn't have the HP to tank the boss on the next turn. With a RP use on MU or MU having Taurus you could kill whichever one. Sirius moves up, as does Marth. I had Ogma use the save point on this turn since Sirius was facing crit chances on the EP. Catria chips the bandit in front of Sirius and Palla kills it. Iron axe forged for accuracy improves the probability to kill significantly. I think my MU is slighly SPD blessed and he's only barely doubling. My MU with Taurus and a Silver lance could combine with Devil!Sirius for the kill if MU wasn't doubling. And I always have the RP available so the kill isn't that hard to get. Marth seizes on turn 6. Level ups: Marth has 74 Sword WEXP. I'm going to stop keeping track of Marth's Sword WEXP. He almost has C and he almost definitely won't hit B. Luke has 26 Bow WEXP. For C5, can someone confirm that the Snipers move more or less randomly when you pull them? I can't get them to stick to one configuration.

[spoiler=C3x 6/68 turns] Deployed: Cav!MU, Archer!Luke, Palla, Linde, Malicia RP (63 Remaining): Palla Luke has Taurus This map is pretty easy since Linde's EP is monstrous and MU is like 3-4HKO'd. Actually since both Linde and MU were present I was able to shoehorn Luke in the map for 8 Bow WEXP. Rapier!Marth and Aura!Linde teamed up for a knight. Malicia healed Marth. Palla chipped a knight with the forged Javelin while being outside of the archers' ranges and Steel!MU + Luke killed another knight. The remaining knight suicides to Linde while the two archers attack Marth and then Luke. Luke with Taurus has higher DEF than Marth. That's why this works. The rest of this map is pretty straightforward. Marth just moves far enough up to seize on turn 6. Palla saves Wrys and occupies the fort on turn 4, etc. Let this fort spawn a knight though for exp and WEXP and Malicia staff rank. Malicia hit B staves on this map btw. MU killed Marth's knight and levelled up and Marth seized. Level ups: Awesome levels all around. I'm too lazy to check if MU is at his average but I think he's still a bit blessed. Not sure. Marth has 68 Sword WEXP. Luke has 20 Bow WEXP.

[spoiler=C3 17/62 turns] Sold Bullion (S) Bought Angelic Robe Forged +1 Mt, +10 Hit Javelin (1875 G) 855 G Remaining Angelic Robe -- Linde Deployed: Cav!MU, DK!Arran, Hunter!Luke, Hunter!Gordin, Linde, Ryan, Malicia, Catria RP (64 Remaining): Catria, Arran, Marth (before boss pull, but it was a waste since he wasn't doubling). The most basic strategy is to have a DK slaying group at the starting position and have a small host escort Marth towards the villages and eventually rendezvous with Palla as she's being chased by cavaliers. I tried something different at first; had Pirate!MU move into the sea and just face-tank everything but it wasn't working out because the mountain DK cluster just kept moving north and harassing Palla. AFAIK the mountain DKs and the western sea DKs aggro together while the Master seal DK and the eastern sea DKs aggro together. That's the spot I used to pull the mountain DKs away from Palla. I'm pretty sure you need to step a little bit into the range of the western sea DKs, the outermost range won't cut it. RP!Steel!Catria + Luke, Nos!Linde + Steel!Gordin + RP!Steel!Catria, and Steel!Ryan + Aura!Linde handle the DKs pretty easily. With all the Steel flying around the hit rates weren't good but what can I do? The DK horizontally level to Arran here kind of surprised me but he's not scary as long if at least 4 of the DK slaying group can't be killed by him. Ryan and Malicia were shielded by Linde, Gordin, Catria and Luke. These two aren't much trouble to handle. I messed up the positioning of Linde last turn and then again on this turn but some lucky level ups saved me. Yea, due to the positioning error of Linde, Catria had to fight an axe DK on the EP but because Catria and Luke both got STR procs it was okay. Due to not having Mend I had to delay the Master seal / eastern DK pull until turn 6 to give the DK slaying group some breathing room. But because of the Iron axe forge and the forged Javelin I could still get Marth the kill. MU missed 1/2 Javelins here. RP!Arran is actually 3HKO'd against max STR Master seal DKs if he fights at least one of the rounds with an axe. Used the RP on Marth thinking he could double but he's level 9 with 11 SPD. I'm like 90 percent sure I gave him the Maturity drop. I saw the pull configuration in one of Balcerzak's youtube videos. Exp whoring at its finest. I think I got 9 exp for this. Arran killed the ballista. MU hit B lances so trade-chained Arran's Silver lance. Fed Palla the boss. MU doesn’t need the exp anymore. I expended quite a few vulneraries in this chapter building Marth's sword rank. And I had to use vulneraries on Linde to keep her healthy too since I didn't have Mend; that being said I am a cheap-ass and probably won't buy more in C5. Gotta save money for that armourslayer forge and boosters for Sirius and Catria. Level ups: Marth has 64 Sword WEXP. Luke has 12 Bow WEXP.

[spoiler=C2 6/45 turns] Sold 80 uses of Iron sword Forged +3 Mt, +10 Hit onto Iron axe (1600 G) 230 G Remaining RPs (67 remaining): Marth, MU, Arran, Draug Deployed: Pirate!MU, Cav!Draug, DK!Arran, Hunter!Luke, Gordin, Ryan, Malicia I used Nessie's strategy of going through the middle with Pirate!MU. Normally I would have Cav!MU go along the right with Marth but I couldn't pass up ~16 Axe WEXP. I didn't have the bow forge so I lightly forged an Iron axe to kill a DK on EP 4. Since the strategy is pretty much in Nessie’s H4 playlog I didn’t really bother with many of the screenshots. Most of them are for the DK slaying on turn 5. Arran moved to the left. Turn 1 movement should get you this configuration of enemy hunters. From here it's pretty straightforward except the DK slaying and even then that's pretty straightforward too. Draug and MU protect Marth from the DKs. MU kills a DK on the EP with the Iron axe forge + doubling. Warren would help out with this DK but Arran crit so it wasn't necessary. If I was short a point of damage Cord could kill. Ryan helps Luke kill a DK. 4 DKs down so far. Draug is just here for the cavalier. Arran chip and kill. Arran needed to use a vulnerary on turn 4, so that after EP 4 combat and PP 5 fort healing he'd have enough to tank the boss. I didn't need to do all this to clear out the DKs but I wanted to feed MU the kill since I'm going to promote him for C4. I only fielded 8/9 units for this map. If I wasn't so insistent on feeding MU the boss I could've made it 7/9. Oh well. Level ups: Marth has 52 Sword WEXP. Luke has 6 Bow WEXP.

So you want more screenshots? I thought I took enough screenshots to display the enemy attack ranges and everything nicely. Not all of the strategies I use will be positioning-intensive so I probably won't need that many screenshots. Would be a shame if I did all that work figuring out a strategy and someone had beaten me to the punch. I'm fine with doing something someone has already done.

[spoiler=C1 6/39 turns] I really hope no one has been able to do this map in 6 turns as reliably as this. I'm going to semi-rage if this has already been done. 10000 G Starting Bank Bought Draco shield, Angelic Robe, Speedwing, Javelin, Iron axe 1430 G Remaining Dracoshield, Angelic Robe, Speedwing -- MU Maturity Drop -- Marth RPs (71 Remaining): Marth, MU, Luke, Gordin, Draug, Arran (use on turn 2 -- read for details) Deployed: Cav!MU, Merc!Luke, Hunter!Gordin, PK!Cecille, Curate!Rody, General!Arran, Cav!Draug, Ryan So initially did this chapter with a MU that could double Lorenz. But since Knight!MU's shouldn't be able to double Lorenz I decided to go back into my P-8 turn 8 save and reset until MU didn't get a SPD level and demonstrate the strategy with that MU. This is after the Angelic Robe, Dracoshield, and Speedwing. Even with a RP usage MU can't double Lorenz. So the bandit in the first screenshot needs 6 crit so people don't die. In the second screenshot Luke killed the bandit and Draug moves to shield him from the bandit nearby who will be left alive on the EP. Draug with RP has 5 LUK. Arran and Marth a bandit. As does MU. I should mention here that my Ryan proc'd STR on his level so I wasn't mandated to use the RP on Ryan. I only needed it on Gordin. As expected the bandit is drawn by Arran's 4 LUK and tries to go for the crit-kill. The hunter attacked Draug because somehow Cav!Draug has lower DEF than Marth. The bandit near the village could only attack MU and MU counter killed him. Marth recruits Malicia. MU kills the bandit next to Arran and Malicia heals him. Arran moves, uses the RP on this turn and gets healed. I had Gordin buy a Javelin and an Iron axe for the next chapter as well. On turn 3, MU moves into range to engage two bandits, Marth full moves on this turn. Luke moves and receives a heal from Malicia (This is important for the next turn.) Luke kills the hunter on the fort. If he misses one of the hits, Gordin can take a shot with an Iron bow to try to save the 6-turn. RP Arran with an Iron bow + base STR RP Marth with Steel can combine for a 2HKO against bandits. Marth is doubling in the screenshot but it doesn't matter. After Malicia and Rody patch MU up, he kills the bandit. Gordin moves 1D of Arran. (He just needs to be on an equivalent tile so he can reach Lorenz on turn 6.) On the EP, Luke gets hit (which is why he needed the heal). Luke kills the hunter. Marth moves but not onto the save point. I had Malicia heal here but it doesn't really change anything. Cecille moves closer to the northern save point. Ryan uses the southern save point. If MU is not doubling Lorenz (like in this case), Lorenz will likely be a 4HKO. I used the save point to rig the first two hits which are MU's Steel lance on the EP and Arran's Silver on PP 6. Cecille uses the other save point. Gordin chips with an Iron bow for 4 damage. I suck at basic math. I couldn't finish him off with Iron and had to use Steel again. See it's pretty reliable stuff right? Lorenz has 42 HP, and 11 (+2) DEF which means that RP!Steel!Hunter!Gordin and RP!Silver!General!Arran contribute 21 damage to Lorenz' 42 HP. MU must make up the remaining 21 damage. After an RP there is no real reason why MU shouldn't be able to muster 24 Atk so two hits should do the trick. If you MU wasn't short a point of DEF like the one here was you could get an attack on PP 5 for some small amount of damage after the fort healing takes place and can get a hit on the EP as well. Fighter!MU's have two benefits on this map at the cost of realistically only being able to take one hit from Lorenz. They can use Iron lances for almost the same amount of damage as Knight!MU's Steel and they are more likely to double Lorenz and may not even need Gordin's inaccurate chip. Anyway, Knight!MU will need a Speedwing and RP to double bandits on this map as a cavalier if he's strictly at his average or worse. The Speedwing isn't wasted since MU isn't a fast and could use the SPD buffer against a lot of bosses. The Dracoshield probably wasn't necessary right now, but I don't need the money for anything else and MU is going to get a Dracoshield at some point in the game. Angelic Robe is just a good idea to bring MU comfortably into 3HKO range. As I mentioned before, this was a demonstration with a MU that couldn't double. The levels I'd gotten in the run I'm continuing with are: Other than Marth's lack of STR I'm pretty happy with these levels. Marth has 48 Sword rank. Luke has 66 Sword rank. This linking picture business takes forever. I'm probably going to significantly reduce the amount of screenshots I use and just summarize the strategy. Sounds good?

C9 isn't really when you should promote your horseman. I mentioned C9 because that's kind of an important point where you want people who are going to be horseman to have D bows by as a hunter to wield a forged Steel bow instead of Iron. And if Ogma want's better offense he should just become a hunter unless he can't get exp as a hunter. Hunter has better offensive growth than the merc does. You don't really have to try to convince me Ogma could be better than Rody. I said Ogma could be placed above Draug knowing that Draug was above Rody.

[spoiler=P-8 9/33 turns] Deployed: Ogma, Athena, Wrys, Luke, Caeda, Merric Pulled RHS bandit/hunter duo. Marth and Athena get hit by thieves on the EP. Marth gets Athena's thief and MU gets Marth's. Luke and Caeda both get non-thief kills, Merric chipped the hunter so Caeda could kill. Wrys healed Marth. Athena and Ogma will heal on turn 2 (the latter being on the throne). MU almost died doing the LHS bandit pull on turn 2. MU moves and uses a vulnerary. Athena moves to counter the RHS reinforcement thief moving up. Merric chips the bandit for Marth to kill. Wrys moves behind Marth and heals him again. I ran into some instances where the enemy thief reinforcement would have the SPD to double and ORKO Marth if he wasn't at full HP. Wrys pulls the hunter so I can kill it without being in the Silver axe bandit's range. Caeda is safely tucked away. This is kind of nice because it forces the LHS thief to attack MU. MU killed Athena's thief while Caeda with a Steel lance OHKO'd MU's thief. Marth and Luke combined for the hunter kill. Ogma stole all of Caeda's weapons so the bandits would attack Merric. On turn 5 Ogma moved 1U. Merric moved up next to Ogma, took Caeda's weapons and healed. Wrys also healed Merric. A bunch of people moved but we end up with this position. Caeda was still unequipped so the bandits still targetted Merric. Also the bandits moved before the thieves and no one ORKO's MU, that's why MU lives. These are probably like the most symmetrical screenshots you will ever see from me. Totally by accident. Athena moved onto the RHS pillar. Marth and Luke both killed the bandits. MU and Caeda both got thieves. On the EP, Athena obviously didn't dodge. Luke kills the bandit. Ogma weakens the other bandit for MU to kill. Caeda kills the RHS mage. Merric + Marth team up for the LHS mage. Wrys healed Athena who moved and used a vulnerary. Just a bunch of movement. Oh, I should've probably mentioned this before but it doesn't matter what side you pull, the strat doesn't require either of the Levin!Thieves to have 13 SPD or Merric to have 11 SPD. Instead Caeda just gets no kills from this last pull. MU killed Merric's Levin sword thief. Wrys healed Caeda who then attacked the other Levin thief and Merric finished it off. Ogma and Luke killed one of the thieves. Marth killed Caeda's silver sword thief. Athena killed Katarina. I had some opportunities to feed kills to long-term units but I don't think I could get them consistently so I didn't take advantage of them. Level ups: MU still blessed... Caeda still randomly proccing RES (this was one of the things I could've taken advantage of but chose not to). Luke is close to his average minus the whole crap LUK thing. Final thing, I kept track of Sword ranks for Luke and Marth. Marth has 44 and Luke has 58. This will be important... probably.

Oh wow I'm dumb. H3 RP, Maturity Drop (Marth), Bond Drop (Marth after Merric joins) allowed. Thanks Nessie/Redwall (I'll always know you as Redwall.) Yea, vanilla Lunatic. How you expect me to kill Lorenz otherwise? No can do on the Rody. I kind of need Luke to ORKO a hunter on a fort with an Iron sword to do C1 in 6 turns reliably. It's sad really, I kind of like Rody and his SPD. [spoiler=P-3 4/12 turns] Rody is on the fort with the sword. Luke has Ryan's vulnerary. The bandit attacked Luke and the merc attacked Rody as expected on the EP. On this turn Ryan takes Luke's lance and chips the bandit. MU then kills the bandit and is position to draw the other bandit. Rody moves into MU's old spot, trades his sword for the lance. Rody doesn't need to heal because with the lance equipped he'll have the HP to survive. Luke moves onto the fort, takes the sword from Ryan and heals. On the EP, the merc attacked Luke and bandit beat up on MU. What happened here was Ryan + Luke killed the bandit. MU killed the merc. From here it's just MU counters Caeda on the EP. MU attacks Caeda on PP 4 and Luke steals the kill. As one would discern, I'm using Luke long term. I got these levels for Luke and MU. Having 11 STR going into this map meant I had to go for the bandit first or I might have to forfeit the the Caeda kill to non-long term units. Normally I go for the merc first and pull Caeda on turn 2. If MU has 11 STR then MU x2 + Luke KO Caeda regardless of her HP. If MU has 10 STR, you need Ryan's chip to feed the kill to Luke if he's using a sword. I was considering starting the run over at this point because of 3 consecutive STR procs. I kind of want an average MU throughout too see how low of a turn count I can get without great level up. But I suppose I can just try to rig some crappy levels. [spoiler=P-4A 3/15 turns] Was considering starting over now, but MU having at least 22 HP, 11 STR and 15 DEF allows for a 3-turn that is very similar to Knight!MU standard 4 turn except... 1 turn faster I guess. MU attacks the nearest myrm. Caeda takes Wrys' vulnerary. Ryan moves to counter the enemy archer. Luke hands a vulnerary to Ryan. A bunch of people attack MU (this is why you need 15 DEF, 4 SPD will also work though). Soldier/archer attacks Caeda/Ryan respectively. Wrys heals Caeda who then attacks the soldier. Ryan uses a vulnerary. MU moves to shield Caeda from the archer and kills the remaining soldier. You need 11 STR to two shot soldiers. On the EP, the myrm will attack Caeda and protect her from further attacks. The merc will suicide and Athena will attack MU. Archer attacks Ryan. Caeda finishes off the myrm. Wrys heals MU if he needs it to tank Athena's counters. Ryan also chips Athena to put her into KO range for Luke. Rody kills the archer who kept attacking Ryan. Do people want more pictures like this or are the start/end of turns good enough to follow? I kind of don't like linking the images. Takes really long. Rody kills the archer that kept attacking Ryan. MU's level lacking STR and DEF was pleasing. If he just goes like one more level without STR he's about average. [spoiler=P-5 4/19 turns] I saw this in Colonel_M's youtube videos. (The ones after some SOPA removal or something.) MU and Athena in place to take hits on the EP. I was crossing my fingers for Athena not to dodge and mess up the AI of the hunters. Yea... she dodged but the hunters still moved to where I wanted them to. I would really appreciate it if someone could help me understand this AI. Anyways, MU takes out Athena's bandit. Merric chips MU's bandit for Luke to kill. Caeda + Ryan and Athena kill hunters. Luke moves onto fort. I moved Wrys as if to heal Athena because normally she would need it. MU killed the thief and positions himself for Athena to grab a vulnerary and heal for turn 4. Merric + Ryan killed Rody's bandit. Normally Rody would have to finish off his bandit for the kill but in this case he spawned with lower durability stats. I opted not to take advantage of it by giving Luke the kill. Luke chipped Caeda's bandit for her to kill. Wrys healed Caeda. Athena healed here. She has close to full HP because she dodged the bandit on turn one. Normally she'd have just enough to tank a hit from the boss. Wrys had healed Caeda, and he will heal her again on turn 4 before Caeda engages the boss. Athena dodged again... and fed Luke his 3/3 boss kills during the prologue. This actually puts Luke in an exp range I like to call kill-something-and-level-up range, which I will be taking advantage of to secure a 3-turn against Cain. Level ups: Ultra pleased with MU's level, he's getting closer to his average. Not so much with Caeda's random RES proc. Deserves to be benched for trolling. [spoiler=P-6O 2/21 turns] Chose Ogma because 2 turns is better than 3, free Steel sword I can sell later and Ogma is just better than Draug for the prologue. Credit to grandjackal (or at least I think this is his strategy, might be someone else's... it's definitely not my own). Deployed: Athena, Caeda, Ryan, Merric Due to Ryan's stupidly good level, him and Merric have to switch positions or the archer will clog up the bridge. Cecille moves to her location before anything else happens. Basically Ryan + Merric + MU kill the bandit. Athena, Caeda need to have their Steel weapons for EP counters. MU needs his Steel lance to finish off Ogma. Ryan doesn't need his Steel bow. In some instances the bandit left alive (the one on the south bridge) will target Caeda; in those instances Athena and Caeda should be both be shifted 1R. In the screenshot Athena is placed to protect MU from being killed by the cavalier after the bandit attacks him as he cannot survive 4 attacks from the cav and bandit combined. The enemy attack order is Archer (who will attack Merric), southern bandit (who in this case will attack MU), Ogma (who will attack Athena), and finally the cavalier (who will attack Caeda). Just mop up here. Caeda kills the archer. Athena kills the cavalier. Ogma has 38 HP, 7 DEF. Athena and Merric each do 12 damage a shot to Ogma. MU needs to have 21 Atk (11 STR + C lances + Steel) to kill Ogma. Ryan + Cecille finish the last enemy. Level up: So MU is blessed again... [spoiler=P-7C 3/24 turns] Cain because I don't think I qualify for a 3 turn of Est since Ryan only has 5 SPD. I tried Est; I could protect Ryan from being attacked by sending Ogma and Athena with him but then MU has to handle the bandit and merc in the south and MU can't do it. I'm shy like a point of defense of barely surviving the merc/bandit combo. And I still need to deal with the archers. Est isn't happening. In the long run, it's probably for the best. Luke needs 3 HP (or equivalent or better -- I had 2 HP/1 DEF) on base to meet the durability benchmark for the 3-turn on this map. Also, Caeda, Athena and Luke need to be able to kill Cain on PP 3 for the 3 turn to happen. I met the durability requisite and rigged a turn one level up to include STR to meet the STR requirement. I suppose for absolution's sake I should've just fielded Ogma instead of Luke but I don't feel that bad about it because Caeda was also levelling up before engaging Cain and as long as one of them got STR the 3-turn was there. Deployed: Luke, Athena, Wrys, Merric, Caeda Merric + Athena (Iron sword) set a kill for Luke and I rigged the level so he would gain STR. Caeda attacks the myrm and MU moves to protect Merric and Wrys. Wrys needs to start on one of the closer tiles so he can heal Athena. On the EP, Luke avoids death due to having a lance equipped and MU counters the enemy knight. Merric moves below MU and finishes the knight. MU attacks the myrm. Wrys heals Caeda. Luke chips the archer and Caeda kills for another level. Athena moves there so Wrys can heal her next turn. On the EP, the archer will attack Merric and the myrm will suicide. Wrys heals Athena and then it's just killing Cain and a lone archer. Level ups: Oh yea, MU is blessed... and these random RES procs...

Knight!MU (name = XforSS because I keep forgetting the screenshots.) +2 DEF, +1 STR/MAG +10% STR/MAG, +15 SKL/SPD [spoiler=P-1 4/4 turns] pretty standard stuff P.S. What are the spoiler options? Like can I just put P-1 in the spoiler name? Edit: Technically, if both the soldier and Jeigan both proc their higher STR values, MU needs to use a vulnerary on turn 2 to secure the 4 turn. Otherwise Jeigan ends up killing MU. Also, I got the STR for 4 turning P-2. [spoiler=P-2 4/8 turns] nothing new I'm sure, Ryan started on the fort, killed Luke on turn 3 and drew in Rody on the same turn. MU only needed 1 STR proc before engaging Rody for the 4 turn, mine has 2 doesn't change anything... sort of

What's the image limit on most of these image hosting services?

Drop Arran's growths so he will never gain stats including LUK and give him A lances.

[spoiler=The original OP]I kind of want to do a kinda-sorta efficiency run with some screenshots, but I'm not sure the best way to go about screenshots. Should I upload them onto a hosting site and then link them here or can/should I upload them here? Is the 10MB upload limit for the whole topic or just 1 post in the topic? If the whole screenshot thing doesn't work out I guess I could do a turn-by-turn and just recapitulate at the end. Constraints of this run are essentially that of the new H3 tier list (you know, the one that PKL made and hasn't updated with the changes we agreed on, you guys know the one). All recruits, no character deaths. Played to C24, all gaidens visited. Rainbow Potion, Maturity drop, Bond drop, Lunatic stat-boosters, and Mixed male classes are allowed. Everybody's situation is not. I will/have be(en) using the standard +2 DEF, +1 STR, +10% STR/MAG growth, + 15% SKL/SPD Knight!MU as it is arguably the most stable during the prologue. Since I have already rigged Luke's level in P-7 this run obviously doesn't prohibit it. In addition to to P-7C STR rig for Luke a number of post-earlygame arena wins were rigged for particular stats (usually SPD). Critical hits are allowed. 1 per save point is acceptable with the exception of C20 and C24 where two are acceptable; though I didn't rig two criticals in C24. [spoiler=Prologue and Chapter Links]P-1 4/4 turns. P-2 4/8 turns. P-3 4/12 turns. P-4A 3/15 turns. P-5 4/19 turns. Credit to Colonel_M for the boss kill combination. P-6O 2/21 turns. P-7C 3/24 turns. Credit to MJEmirzian. I know others have talked about it but I saw the Cain kill in his guide first. P-8 9/33 turns. C1 6/39 turns. C2 6/45 turns. Credit to Nessie for the general strategy. C3 17/62 turns. C3x 6/68 turns. C4 -- 1 Rescue 6/74 turns. C5 -- 1 Rescue 9/83 turns. Credit to Nessie for a fair portion of the clear, namely MU's positioning for turns 3-8. C6 -- 1 Rescue 6/89 turns. C6x -- 1 Rescue 1/90 turns. C7 -- 1 Rescue 5/95 turns. C8 -- 1 Hammerne, 1 Rescue 3/98 turns. Credit to SevenDeadlySins for the idea of engaging the generals with a MU that is 11HKO'd to ensure survival. C9 -- 1 Rescue 5/103 turns. Credit to dondon151 for Feena's initial placement. Credit to Nessie for Silver!Jeorge feeding Linde a kill. C10 -- 2 Thief charges 2/105 turns. C10x 1/106 turns. Credit to MJEmirzian for the L-trick in determining the real Roro. C11 -- 2 Rescue 5/111 turns. Credit to dondon151 for Etzel's turn 1 positioning. Credit to Nessie for MU's positioning on turn 1 and 2. C12 -- 1 Hammerne, 1 Rescue 5/116 turns. Credit to MJEmirzian for the idea of ORKOing bandits with a handaxe forge. C13 6/122 turns. Video for C13 C13x 2/124 turns. C14 -- 1 Rescue, 1 Thief charge 5/129 turns. Video for C14 The run will continue with video format, though considering 3/8 voters wanted screenshots I will probably end up including screenshots as part of the write-up. Commentary will probably never be coming to this run though. C15 -- 1 Again 5/134 turns. Credit to PKL for the near full rout of the boss area on turn 1. C16 2/136 turns. C16x 2/138 turns. C17 -- 1 Rescue, 1 Again 4/142 turns. Credit to Nessie for the strategy. C18 -- 1 Rescue 2/144 turns. C19 -- 1 Rescue, 1 Again 6/150 turns. Credit to MJEmirzian for the opening of the strategy. C20 -- 1 Rescue 5/155 turns. C20x 4/159 turns. Credit to Nessie and MagicBarrier16. C21 -- 1 Rescue, 1 Again 6/165 turns. C22 -- 1 Again, 1 Hammerne 4/169 turns. C23 -- 2 Rescue, 2 Again]C23 -- 2 Rescue, 2 Again 2/171 turns. C24 -- 1 Rescue, 1 Again]C24 -- 1 Rescue, 1 Again 2/173 turns. [spoiler=Notable Secondary Objectives Completed]P-8: MU hit level 10. C7: Acquired all the thieves' items. Killed 2 heroes. C8: Eliminated all mortal enemy targets (does not include Jeorge) in the northern section of the map. C9: Full rout. C10x: Killed 5 Roros. C11: Acquired all the buried treasure as well as the Mastersword. C12: Fed Marth 4 Fire dragons. Reliably killed the boss. Eliminated southern dragon reinforcements. C13: Rescue-less. Acquired all the items including the Spirit dust. (So close to a) full rout. Reliably killed the boss. C14: Fed Marth 4 Ice dragons. Acquired the Swordslayer. Full rout. C15: Rescue-less. Acquired the thieves' items. C17: DK rout. C18: General, DK, and nameless Paladin rout. Acquired all items. Endgame(C24): Not a double crit strategy. And Marth did not kill Medeus because Marth is stupid.

I think I made a post saying Arran should move to Upper mid or Top because he didn't fit the description for High. Still I think he is useful up to and including C7. Not sure how my assumptions should put Yumina in High. She'll never replace Malicia; Malicia and Yumina both need 60 staff uses to get to A rank for Foritfy in C14. Malicia (thanks to the C3 spam-fest) meets this very easily, while Yumina won't hit A in time for Fortify use (without a promotion). (I don't know that for a fact but if she does hit A without detriment to turncount, it's unnervingly tight and would require the player to be diligent about maximizing staff spams and Feena dancing.) IMO Yumina is just a back up physic user for early and then forgotten about. I don't think Ogma is anywhere near Luke's level, certainly not when you consider potential weapon ranks; with the player being diligent Luke can have C swords/D bows by the start of C8. Ogma won't even hit D bows by the start of C9, and he'll have lower offense (like maybe 3 STR shy of OHKOing DKs with a 13-Mt bow). That being said though he is probably good enough to move into high maybe even above Draug? He can kill Cain (3-turn guaranteed with Ogma, Athena, Caeda) in P-7 and thieves in P-8 so he could rejoin your party at level 9.5-10.5ish, which is pretty much where Draug/Rody will be. Ryan should be slightly higher. Compared to Draug/Rody/Ryan, Ogma will lose in bow rank (more severely against Ryan). On the other hand he may be able to double dragons as a horseman for better offensive growths than the other non-Luke horseman who would have to be SMs for wyrmslayer access. Unlike Rody and Ryan he doesn't give support to MU and he doesn't receive support from Marth either, so some crit-related stuff is less reliable. He does receive support from Caeda though. Don't know if this matters much. I've always seen Ogma as a temporary option for some maps and nothing more since I value bow rank a lot more than sword rank but he probably could do well as a permanent unit. While on the topic of horseman, can someone explain why Draug>Rody? Potential wise Rody is way better isn't he?

Yea, I agree about Ogma being better than Minerva. Hauteclere usage is nice but it's really only for a few (but probably just one) chapters. Ogma with RP and (even unforged) armourslayer is pretty beastly in C5-C6x and RP!Ogma is pretty clutch in C4. I'm assuming it's fair to assume Upper mid units will not get full time deployment and their merit should show from base stats and weapon ranks alone. I won't argue against Luke moving into Top.

What did you think of the season finale final episode?

Notable (C1-C3x) = sub 75 displayed hit. Notable (C4-Endgame) = sub 85. The difference is because early you are more or less forced to use Steel bows with low SKL archers and Javelins/Steel lances against units on forest tiles. I generally also take long sequences of sub-90 hit rates (like C3 DK shooting gallery) to be notable if saves are not used to back up the progress. Can I assume we are not going for minimum reliable turn counts (which is what I meant by impressive turn counts)? Because then I’m pretty sure Sirius’ wider class selection allowing him to more seamlessly fit into multiple teams (including those without MU present) throughout maps (early and late) should be enough to put him well within the league of Top. Again, I’ve never been arguing for Sirius > Caeda or any combat unit in Top. Just Sirius is Top tier. It’s not as hard as you think, especially if MU is not promoted very early to shoulder much of the babying that units need; since it will then be between Palla and Sirius to do said babying, instead of getting kills/exp for themselves. My point is the game is just about as forgiving to say Catria not getting her early game DKs and Bishops as it is to Sirius missing his dragons; that is they can both be saved at some point. As for sensitivity, Catria continually grows throughout early game; this is largely in part due to her getting a couple of early levels so she can become self-sufficient. Without this accelerated exp intake she is far less effective at everything, and may even need to be babied to reach a decent level before promotion. Granted Catria is not as dependent getting exp in a “tight” window, but she needs the early exp to contribute. To clarify the second part, you made a post saying you could fix Sirius with stat-boosters for late game. I’m saying you can fix any Top tier unit with stat-boosters right after the dragon chapters. Your playlog more or less proves that Sirius can be saved with boosters for endgame. Considering the RP, Maturity drop, the C14 bullion and the remaining stat boosters in the base shop the assertion that any Top tier combat unit can be saved is a plausible one. And if the clear is flat out impossible (say because we need to kill every hostile enemy in the vicinity in order for units to survive another turn) without this doubling, there is no contingency plan. (This is essentially what I was asking, double the enemy with whatever odds or die… what’s the expected turn count? Or is the clear classified as a failed attempt?) That doesn’t mean you aren’t weighing the prologue too heavily for Caeda. You could easily just not care much about Athena’s positioning, indicated by you not knowing where she is ranked, for a number of reasons including that she is almost never used in LTC/efficiency runs past the prologue. Caeda on the other hand is a good unit, and she also has the prologue that no one else has so it becomes an obvious highlight to giving her a home in Top that no other unit (besides MU) can contest because they are not there. Also, you’ve made arguments about Sirius not being “core” to that many maps; this argument can be more immediately applied to Etzel yet you’ve taken no action to have him dropped out of Top so again, you might not care about the placement of certain units. Sirius’ dependence sprouts from the very likely scenario that he will be given very little exp (usually because he sets kills for others, many of which he can get for himself) prior to the dragons. If he’s given adequate exp going into the dragon chapters, realistically he would only need 2-3 dragons (of which there are 55-60) more than other combat units so that he could reach --/11. Would you agree that if Catria and Palla can reach 16/7 then it is perfectly reasonable for Sirius to reach --/11? Okay, I kept mentioning Horseman because I actually did use him as my go-to Horseman. He can ORKO Sorcerers with the Brave sword as a Paladin as well. He can use Dragonpikes (including that +3 Mt forge) for enough damage for almost anyone to pick off in one shot (useful considering not everyone can go back to back rounds with just one heal in between), he has 2 move over everyone else and he has RES so he probably can fight Mage dragons and Sorcerers back to back with only one heal in between. He can even crit the boss with Gradivus. This is rare and only possible with some MU choices. Since we aren’t assuming the most optimal party, this sort of robust unit would fit well anywhere even suboptimal parties. If he is leveled up enough he can cleanly ORKO berserkers in C20x-C21 with Mercurius/Brave sword as a SM. Linde needs a boatload of Dusts to do this, Luke needs to be a dedicated sword user to get his hands on Mercurius (but he could probably do it with the Brave sword) and I’m pretty sure max STR SMs with Silver can’t even ORKO these guys.

You can keep her as a cavalier for most of her unpromoted time. She makes a good sniper with her stupid ability to double anything the game will let you. Honestly, unless the map requires you to deploy every flier possible, you can probably make better use of Caeda as a grounded unit. There is no weight system in this game and Caeda can function as a General effectively on some (more like 1) map.

They are all more or less useless as fliers vs. those DKs though except probably Palla.

Oh, had forgotten about this gem. Your oversimplified computation of expected turn count leads me to believe you just have an aversion to using criticals and low percent hits after save points. A real computation of expected turn counts (even if we aren’t bringing benchmarks into consideration) is far more laborious as you would have to account for every hit that is not guaranteed in addition to potential contingency options you may have in the event that misses did happen, possible AI targeting order in the event random level ups may alter them, etc. And I was asking how expected turn counts were computed because I am unsure as to how a unit meeting benchmarks for certain strategies would be integrated into said computation. For ex. if a unit needs to double an enemy for the strategy to work, but the unit only has an 83% chance of reaching the doubling SPD before the chapter begins, what would be the numerical detriment to the expected turn count if you used the strategy? There is nothing in the original post about expected turn counts; you have been the only person in this topic consistently mentioning them. For this reason, I am going by raw turn count assuming no unreliable (but still reasonable) sequences, hits or criticals are being used unless they are backed by a map save. Basically, I’m eyeballing the success rate of a chapter and only giving thought to notable hit rates. Expected turn counts also deride more impressive clears with lower raw turn counts but used a map save crit to finish sooner. I’ve been arguing against Caeda and even I don’t believe they are “more or less” in the same league. Caeda doubles thieves and takes less damage from their counters, as well as having more RES than Merric allowing for better use of the final EP in P-8. Yet even if I were to remove Athena (or pretty much anyone) from play, your turn count would be destroyed in P-5. I think you are putting too much weight to the prologue. Units do what they are meant to here and not much more. There is no reclassing so units are better than other units simply because they are in certain classes and at that point we are really just arguing which classes better in the prologue. And there is no unit (including MU) that contributes heavily towards prologue chapters (except for possibly P-8) without a specific party composition. So really he has 3 maps in the prologue, does very little in those maps and for the most part is interchangeable with Rody. C1- This map can be completed in 8 turns while deploying less than the maximum by way of PK!Cecille pulling the bandits and hunters on turn 4 and then just a hunter on turn 5. A 6 turn requires every unit I believe but I think it requires everyone to be drunk on RPs and some blessing or criticals/dodges. And a 7 turn may not require every unit depending on if you are shaving a turn by killing Lorenz or by moving more aggressively towards the village on turn 1. C2- With the bow forge, you can fully rout without deploying a full party. C3- Again with the bow forge, you can do the same. In fact, if you want, you can have Pirate!MU help clear out the DKs and Cav!Catria with Lady sword run with Marth, and still not have to deploy a full party in the event you don’t have the bow forge. C3x- He’s not optimal on this map since the only thing he is likely doubling with are steel swords and then he isn’t doing much damage. So for C1-C3 Luke could be deployed and run into a corner where he won’t be targeted and we can complete the map just fine without him even if we are using him. Luke is just improving himself for his endgame here. As far as I know, pretty much every map (except for some very short ones) after Sirius joins requires deployed units to at least do something to get the lowest turn clears, only then are units (other than MU, Sirius, Palla, Caeda and possibly Catria) even contributing to the chapter’s objective (indirectly or otherwise). With a reasonable amount of exp he has more options for odd jobs than Palla does. And I can easily say you can deprive someone like Palla of exp and give them stat-boosters to do the same. All you’ve stated here is that the game is far too forgiving for mismanaging exp distribution in tandem with not maximizing exp gains among your party to the point that pretty much any unit when given stat-boosters can become competent members of your team. If this is not true, he must have been a pretty amazing unit already to become fully functional after just stat-boosters and very little exp. Edit 28/09/2013 3:02 pm. The metric is also exp not kills, so one level for Sirius should equate to one level for anyone else, unpromoted or not. BTW there are like 55-60 dragons in C11-C14. The description of “some degree” was vague so I had assumed a unit was able to require a reasonable amount of exp + boosters (why is warp even listed as a resource?) and still be in Top. Especially when considering a unit like Catria getting all the promoted kills she gets during C3-C6 (some of these are kills that Sirius would very much appreciate). The reason I said Luke fit High better was because he needs Armscrolls, probably multiple Speedwings and possible a Draco shield or Angelic Robe in addition to being babied for a large portion of the game to do what he does; still if you want to argue him for Top tier I assure you I will not impede the motion. Sirius is more than capable of contributing effectively in the early game despite being destitute of exp. His earlier access to promoted classes ensures he is capable of contributing to low turn clears of early game regardless of team composition; this fact is corroborated by him being used in virtually every H3 efficiency/LTC playthrough documented on this site. And come the dragon chapters, he can start ORKOing dragons for the exp gains he was being deprived and continue to actively contribute towards low turn clears for the rest of the game. You mentioned that Sirius was not “core”. If he is not core where exactly is Palla “core”? C3 is a given due to her placement on the map, her assumed role can be done by Catria in C3x. I am sure if Sirius is not core to a map in C4-C9 then neither is Palla. I’m not sure what constitutes as “core” in your mind. Sirius and his access to promoted classes and stellar weapon ranks are a core part of the early game chapters as is Palla and her access to Silver lances + doubling. I don't have much to say about anything after “degree of resources” since A) I’m not aware of any strategies that heavily involve support bonuses (certainly not ones that involve Sirius’ support options) and B) utilized correctly is vague and I think was only intended to apply to some “outside of the box” stuff like SM!Linde with Levin swords.

Yet Caeda has difficulty doing this even with the Lady Sword. In fact, doesn’t she even have difficulty surviving the counter attack from them? Draug has issues surviving as well. Is there a 7 turn for C21? This part of my post may be irrelevant but I think there is a reliable 7 turn somewhere with 2 Horsemen and a FK taking the south for H3. The MOV would be relevant to because Feena would have to dance Malicia and Marth in consecutive turns. Anyways, I’ll concede this point since I’m unsure about this. I was never talking about outranging the Thoron Sorcerer since even a Sniper can outrange a non-seige mage. Do you know of a way to have MU set up general kills for people AND get the Armscroll reliably? I mean, Fighter!MU has hammer, but for other MUs using means other than criticals do you know of a way for MU to do both? You are overestimating Caeda against enemies she A) can’t double and B) doesn’t have effective weaponry for. And since you care so much about expected turn counts (which I still do not know how you accurately measure) all those steel lance hits and javelin tosses against thieves on forest tiles must be a bitch. Neither of them has the STR to combine with Palla for a clean 2HKO. Also, I actually hate C7 because of all the forest tiles. Usually I just have Arran fly around using save points because I do end up missing javelin tosses. He can also draw in the southwest DK near the boss in C9, and Luke can trail behind him to KO it. I know you used MU who could double DKs in that chapter, and I think it’s reasonable to assume MU could double with RP but it provides an avenue for Luke to acquire more exp so it is a relevant contribution. Additionally, even if all he is doing is acquiring more exp for himself (with zero direct contribution to his teammates), this is still a good thing because he will invariably make the team more robust and versatile. For example, suppose he and another unit have the same option on a map like ORKOing mage dragons in C22 as a SM. If he has an option that does not mandate him to be a SM ORKOing mage dragons then another unit that doesn’t have the same options he does can take up this post. This is a contribution from Sirius. He allows for numerous avenues for additional and/or alternative exp intake throughout game that you are ignoring because it doesn’t directly save turncounts. Technically, I could use 3 random archers/hunters in C3 to clear out DKs and call it a day but I give that exp to units I intend to use because they will eventually give me some return. Still more exp for the team as a whole and I didn’t realize Samto was doing something so important on turn 6 he can’t use the save point to ensure the KO. I’m actually kind of curious about this and someday I will try this. For now I’m going estimate and say P4 (Athena) would be a 4-5 turn with Knight!MU depending on stats, P5 would probably lose like 2-3 turns because of the nature of the hunters but maybe myrm/merc MUs are less affected, P6 (Draug) probably wouldn’t change much (worst case is like a 1 turn loss I think), P7 (Est) might be tricky but I think it could be done even if you might have to let Draug KO Est and P-8 loses maybe another 2 turns since Est + Merric would have to pull the thieves back? But I think this argument is out of place. I could easily remove Athena and you would have a very similar turn count loss (or worse) particularly in P-5 with those stupid hunters that Caeda can’t do shit about unless you can somehow manage to protect her from all the other enemies on the map. I think you are placing far too much emphasis on the prologue. If you are going by your H4 experiences you should note your Sirius wasn’t even level --/12 at the end of C21. He is easily able to hit level --/11 before the start of C15. This by the way is possible even if A) Caeda kills C6 boss, B) he’s setting kills up for Palla in C7 and C) he only gets 4-5 dragons in C13 and C14 combined (it isn’t much). He could potentially hit --/13 but perhaps that is exp concentrated to heavily into Sirius. Luke is killing something that’s been weakened by someone else for the explicit purpose of Luke getting the kill. Sirius is ORKOing. They are nowhere near the same thing. You’re essentially saying, “Let’s not give Sirius any exp for him to gain an adequate number of levels. That way we can say he isn’t do much early game and bitch about how he sucks 20 chapters after the one he joins in.” Any combat unit that gains only 10 levels in 20 chapters is going to have trouble contributing. MU is only our best combat unit because he can reach ridiculous levels very quickly. Look at MU vs Luke. They are not very different statistically. It’s all in the levels, which you are denying Sirius even though he can get the exp on his own.

Paladin!Sirius (if leveled) can reliably ORKO Sorcerers with the Brave sword in C22. Depending on how leveled he is he may even be able to do this as a Horseman for C21 and C22. So what? He can KO wyrms after they’ve been weakened by a Javelin toss from Catria and he outranges Sorcerers. Essentially Catria, Luke, and Sirius can handle the bottom, while your fliers and Marth head to the village. Admittedly though, he and Catria are teaming up to do things while Luke is loling in their faces. He can also do whatever Caeda is doing on this map as a support flier. Hero!Sirius flat out ORKOs the Armscroll General in C8 with the Armourslayer forge which allows MU to either get a Sniper kill for himself or set a kill up for someone else. Even DK!MU can’t ORKO generals without Hammer (maybe non-fighter MUs can reach C axes?) or killer lance crits. In C7, he can actually OPKO (one poke knock out) thieves with RP and shards while wielding a Silver lance. He also does massive damage to the C7 boss. And with RP and borrowing shards he can actually OCKO (one chip knock out) and face-tank DKs in C9 as a Sniper with the bow forge he would have access to (since our hunter is like in trading proximity to Sirius). Paladin!Sirius with RP and a Speedwing is able to ORKO Lang with the Armourslayer forge. This allows MU to kill a Bishop for additional exp gain. Actually, I think Frey can reach the knights in the throne room by turn 6 and I think MU + Frey can kill a knight together. So then Caeda can use the Lady sword to kill a Bishop. So he’s not even costing Caeda her precious exp anymore. The difference between Caeda’s prologue and Sirius’ early + late game is not so largely in Caeda’s favour to be noted by a tier gap either. If this was my tier list I would put Luke in Top tier (above Sirius), Sirius would’ve already been in Top, there would be a Unique Utility tier, Marth would be in said tier, there would be a Free Silvers tier (which would be above the “All Default Archers in FE Games are Shit, Why Should this Game be any Different” tier), etc. Totally not biased, I swear. Anyways, Luke requires too much babying early on that he doesn’t really fit PKL’s description of Top tier. The reason I’m arguing for Sirius to be in Top is because he does fit the description.

Hey, we stole the +2 Javelin from the same source. Hi-five.

I don’t know what your Cecille’s stats are, but you might be able to use Nosferatu to tank some of the enemies in the castle trap. Edit: Just looked at them, with Scorpio she is doubling even the wyrms I think.