Jotari Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) The first Fire Emblem game has been remade twice now, yet there is still a feeling that it could, or even should, be remade yet again. This feeling does not come from the gameplay. The first game in the series, while cool for its time, does not have spectacular gameplay in this day and age. Yet, despite that, the DS remake is considered to have very good gameplay. If you want pure simple Fire Emblem gameplay with no fancy skills or transformations, Shadow Dragon is pretty much as good as it can get. So if it's not the gampelay, it means the main motivation is, of course, the story. Despite New Mystery introducing supports to Archanea, its cast still feels very under cooked and its story is very basic also despite having genuinely good lore and world building (to this day it still has more countries than any other continent we've seen). So I propose an outside the box solution to scratch this itch. We don't remake Shadow Dragon, the game, we remake the War of Shadows, the story. A remake entirely untethered by Shadow Dragon's gameplay conventions and expectations, but still tied to its setting and plot. This means chapters can be added, cut, moved around and changed with maps being altered too. Not every chapter needs to be a seize chapter, the story determines what happens, not the gameplay. Characters who aren't Marth, Malledeus or Nyna get more screen time and we see more of the villains who are an active force, not just passively waiting for Marth to kill them one by one. Basically, what I'm talking about, is that we give Shadow Dragon the Radiant Dawn treatment when it comes to story. Here is a chapter by chapter run down of how that would work. Prologue in Altea is axed. It's good and fine, but not what I want the opening to focus on. Instead I want the opening chapters to focus on Marth's life on Talys and his descision to go to war. A lot of these narrative ques would be taken from the OVA. Prologue: Basically identical to Path of Radiance's first chapter. Marth is training with Jeigan. Much of Marth's initial gang are introduced in a relative peace time setting. Part 1: Marth Embarks Chapter 1: Galdr Port: The King of Talys receives word that Galder Port has been taken over by bandits. Jeigan sees this as a good opportunity to train Marth and his knights under real battle conditions, so Marth sorties under the flag of Talys, pretending to be their army. Much like Galder Port in Shadow Dragon, here is where Ogma and the Axe trio are introduced. The battle (against Gomer) goes more smoothly than expected, the threat seemingly exaggerated. But forces from Grust turn up to inspect the situation and Marth is forced to flee back to Talys lest he be discovered (Ogma and the official Talys forces remain behind to treat with the expedition from Grust, one of the Grust bosses can make a cameo here, my pick is Hollstadt, because he has nothing going for him?). Chapter 2: Talys Under Fire: Sailing past the capital is noted to be eerily quiet. Upon landing near their fort, Marth is immediately attacked by pirates and it's revealed that Gazzak sent the attack on Galder as a distraction in order to seize Talys. It's made clear that Gazzak does this because he and his men fear for their own lives about the encroaching Dolhr forces and wants to hand Talys on a platter to them to get into Medeus' good graces. Marth's faction is effectively the only force left. There is some debate about whether they should reveal themselves at all with the Grust expedition so close in Galder, but on Shiida's pleas, Marth decides to save Talys. And then, with his existence now revealed, march to Aurelis and unite his forces with Hardin's. Chapter 3: A Brush in the Teeth: The battle against the Soothsires is pretty much unchanged. Only it's made clear that Hyman was in league with Gomer and Gazzak and that the bandit problem continent wide is only getting worse as a result of the war. Chapter 3x: Starcrossed: We move away from Marth's army for a chapter and play through Nyna and Camus' chapter of Archanea saga. Nyna is freed from imprisonment in Archanea and brought to Aurelis by Camus who is in turn taken into custody at the end of the chapter. Not only is the Nyna-Camus romance one of the few plot points in the original story that gets focus, but playing this chapter out directly means you get to see Medeus for the first time in the story instead of him showing up literally at the end and nowhere else. Chapter 4: Battle in the Lea: This chapter is pretty minor in the original, the main focus here would be the return of Merric and what information he brings about Khadein. Chapter 5: Champions of Aurelis: The goal of this chapter is not seizing the castle, but rescuing Nyna. Nyna is a playable character while Haridn and the Wolf Guard are green allies characters protecting her. They are quite high level, but there are enemies with Ridersbanes approaching them putting a time limit on rescuing them. Chapter 6: Fire Emblem: Hardin's brother is actually a character seen and made important. Minerva is also first introduced here talking with Emereus, but she makes the conscious choice to abandon him. Like the previous chapter, Hardin and the Wolfguard are green units in this chapter, and at the end of the chapter the characters actually discuss what to do next. Marth wants to liberate Altea immediately, Nyna naturally wants to liberate Archanea. Marth is outvoted as Hardin agrees with Nyna. However, Hardin decides not to join Marth and Nyna as he believes he's needed to defend Aurelis, and that by simultaneously attacking from the north he can split the enemy forces. Roshea, however, joins Marth's army as a representative of Aurelis. Part 2: Holy Archanea Chapter 7: Lefandith Gauntlet: This is largely unchanged. Only an actual scene between Marth and Minerva should play out. This is also where Bantu joins like in Shadow Dragon. At some point forces from Gra show up to reinforce the enemy from behind Marth, but they end up not moving and let Marth seize the castle as Jiol is feeling slighted for Grust taking control of Already instead of Gra. Chapter 8: Port Warren: Actually a completely different chapter to Chapter 8 of Shadow Dragon. As this chapter takes place entirely in Warren. The narration mentions that Marth's army is taking it easy here in Shadow Dragon, but we never really get a sense of Warren. They've already left it by the time the chapter starts. Here, Marth is attacked by Khadein Assassins while in Port Warren and is saved by Radd and Caesar. A low deployment chapter similar to One Survives in Radiant Dawn. Chapter 9: Counter Attack: This is the Port Warren chapter from Shadow Dragon, only it's a bit more intense. It's a proper escape chapter as Marth goes up against the Sable order well before he is prepared to. Sternlin is the boss chasing Marth down along with the other Sable Order members from Archanea Saga (and actually seen earlier in this game). Maybe Nyna can recruit one of them if she gets close enough, not sure. They intended to desert but we're captured and are now part of a unit of slave soldiers. Xemcel from the Dolhr chapter is also here overseeing the assault. Chapter 10: The Pyrathi Dragon: My feelings on Pyrathi as a plot point are well documented. Marth still does the same thing as in the original, but it's shown to be a hard choice for him and mostly born from his desperation. When Catria shows up at the end she joins as a playable character. She also brings word that the Sable order army and Xemcel have moved north to combat an invasion by Hardin into Archanean territory (the actual provinces of Archanea detailed in Kaga's notes are made explicit here). Chapter 10X: Spears in the North: We take a break from Marth to play as Hardin and the remaining Wolfguard as they clash with the Sable Order (a few more characters from Aurelis could be introduced here to bulk up Hardin's forces as he'd only have four characters. We could also have Malice and Dice show up here, or Athena since I ignored her Gaiden, as they're mercenaries and can fit in anywhere). Like Marth's army they are pushed back by the sable order, but they achieve their goal in relieving the pressure on Marth. At the end we see Sternlin arguing with Xemcel. Xemcel wants to push forward and conquer Aurelis, but Sternlin argues they've lost too many men to reclaim Aurelis. The Sable Order, while mighty, is not fighting at its peak performance without Camus to inspire them. To Xemcel's anger, they announce they're returning to Grust to regroup. Chapter 11: Castle Deil: Rescuing Maria is the main goal of this chapter. It can't be failed without getting a gameover. The enemies you fight here are also a coalition of Dolhr and Macedonian forces. We also first find out about the Grust royal twins at this point too, as Dolhr is essentially doing the same thing with them as it is with Maria. Once Maria is rescued, Minerva leaves her and Catria with Marth, but Minerva herself actually leaves to return to Macedon and to stir rebellion against Michalis there. We hear in the following chapters that she is successful and Macedon has a civil war, crippling its ability to help the enemy alliance. Chapter 12: Knorda Market: Like the Port Warren chapter, this chapter actually takes place entirely inside Knorda Market as Marth fights off the slavers and takes control of the town, rescuing Linde in the process. Chapter 13: Reclaiming Archanea: This is the Knorda Market chapter form Shadow Dragon. Volzhin, Heimler and Khozen all get screen time as the antagonists, discussing Marth's invasion. There is tension between Volzhin and Khozen due to Khozen feeling he should be in charge instead of the human Volzhin. Michalis is also there at the start of the chapter, but, much like his sister in Aurelis, abandons the alliance when he hears Macedon is being engulfed in civil war (we can specify the call for help comes from Orridyon, the Macedonian general you fight late in the game). I think we could also squeeze Horace into this chapter, as a force attacking Marth from the rear with Dejanira that can be recruited if you can finish the chapter without killing him. Chapter 14: The Ageless Palace: Much the same, only Heimler is now a Bow Knight and actively uses Parthia against Marth's forces. He must be killed in order to obtain it. After this chapter, the weight of Marth's victory is more explicitly made clear. This is a huge win for the Archanean League, the real turning point of the war, and it deserves to be highlighted more than in Shadow Dragon. Part 3: Lands of Sorrow Chapter 15: The Wooden Cavalry: Archanea still isn't fully reclaimed as Marth and Nyna sortie into Menedy and face the Wooden Cavalry. The game actually acknowledges that this is the site of the Battle of Menedy River where Marth's father dies. Thematically setting us up for Part 3, the section of the story in which marth reclaims Altea. Unlike in the original, Astram isn't fighting for the enemy (because really, that doesn't make a huge amount of sense) and has to be rescued as a green unit. If Jeorge is alive and recruited, we also find out that this is his home region in a base conversation (throughout the game there'd be Tellius style base conversations reflecting on events and giving hints to the up coming battles). One more of Hardin's Wolfguard can join us here as Hardin doesn't need so many forces as he eliminates the other isolated pockets of partisan Grust and Dolhr forces that remain throughout Archanea. Chapter 15x: The Siblings War: We get a look at how Minerva's war in Macedon is panning out. She has Palla, Est and Frost working for her in addition to any other minor characters that could be retconned or moved there. Initially the battle is going well, but then Gharnef shows up with Tiki and Camus is finally let out of the doghouse with Gradivus. These three combined are enough to force Minerva's forces out of Macedon. In the midst of the retreat, Est goes missing. Minvera sends a worried Palla to meet with Marth and inform him of what happened while she resolves to continue as a guerilla fighter with her loyalists. She also briefly meets Gotoh who tries to encourage her to go to Grust for her to get the orbs for a starlight. Minerva refuses but brings Marth to Gotoh's attention. Meanwhile Medeus is furious that Gharnef has Tiki brainwahsed and didn't tell him, he's also angry at Michalis for harbouring Gotoh. Gharnef stands up to Medeus fegining a desire to protect Tiki from Medeus. It's finally Camus who intervenes and convinces them to agree to move still brainwashed Tiki to the Fane of Raman to protect it during the war. Chapter 16: Forests of Gra: A plot point in the original Wooden Cavalry chapter is moved here. Marth has an encounter with a Gra commoner and learns the nation is divided about Jiol's decision to betray Altea. Marth begins to get over his hatred and see his enemies as ordinary people and not irredeemably evil foot soldiers. I also just want Gra to have two chapters to go down rather than being dispatched in one. We also just in general need more Gra characters and this would give us a Gra boss (a female paladin to appeal Shanty Pete's First Mate). This is also where Palla shows up to bring news of Minerva's failure to wrest Macedon from Michalis. Chapter 17: Treacherous King: Taking some narrative ques from the manga, Marth offers a parle with Gra and wants to meet King Jiol in person. But Jiol thinks its a trick as he cannot conceive that Marth could ever possibly forgive him. Marth is forced to storm the castle and tries again to negotiate with Jiol, but Jiol knows he's signed his death warrant allying with Dolhr and can never go back, decides to fight to the death. We also get our mandatory Sheema cameo as Marth negotiates a peace with her. Like in the original, they learn Falchion is not there and take a detour to Khadein even though Altea is so close. Chapter 18: An Oasis of Magic: Unlike in the original, Gharnef does not appear at the start of the chapter and then vanish to do something unspecified. He appears several chapters in and attacks from behind. Even though Marth has seized Khadein by the end of the chapter, Gharnef still keeps coming and seems posed to reconquer Khadein single handedly if not for the timely arrival of Hardin and the Aurelis forces from the east. Gharnef decides not to test his powers against such a large host and begrudgingly decides to retreat. Hardin and the remaining Wolfguard become playable from this point on as he, Marth and Nyna finally decide to reclaim Marth's homeland. Arlen can have a cameo here too. Chapter 19: White Sage: During a battle for Helena castle on the Altean border, Marth is contacted by Gotoh and is told to find the orbs in the Fane of Raman. Gotoh tries to pressure Marth into abandoning Altea and march on Grust right away, but Marth rejects the idea and chooses to liberate his homeland from the suffering it's under going. Etzel's original story line is played out here as a side mission. Chapter 20: The Battle for Altea: Like the Archanea castle segment, we see more from the villains side as Morzas and Hollstadt argue how to lead the defense. We see that Sternlin defying Xemcel and abandoning the attack on Aurelis has led to division within the Grust-Dolhr alliance as a whole. In contrast to Marth who unites many people under his banner, the villains are losing because they don't trust each other. Chapter 21: Loedstar: Pretty much the same as in Shadow Dragon, Marth reclaims his home, but is grieved to learn that his mother is definitely dead. He meets the cheering crowd with a fake smile as he holds back the tears. Unlike the original, however, he promotes at this point, becoming a Loedstar. Part 4: Nations of Might Chapter 22: Cashmere: Nyna comes into conflict with Marth and Hardin as she thinks they shouldn't invade Grust and play the war defensively. Hardin wants to go to Macedon next and assist Minerva, who is losing her war against Michalis (he knows Minerva from the BS Saga chapter which still happened even if it's not played out). But Marth convinces them to trust in Gotoh's words and seek out the Fane of Raman. Marth marches into Cashmere and faces Sternlin again, this time coming out victorious. Nyna confesses to Marth that the reason she didn't want to invade Grust was because of her affair with Camus. Est shows up mid map with Mercurius. Chapter 23: Manakete Princess: Marth and Bantu free Tiki from Gharnef's control. Gharnef appears in person to stop them, but he is warded off with an illusion summoned by Gotoh. Chater 24: Camus the Sable: The Archanean league go up against Camus and are forced to kill him (or knock him into a river where he floats to far side of a whole other continent across the sea as he's apparently immune to exposure and requires no sustenance). At this section of the story the royal Grust heirs are highlight and not just left ignored as a plot point. Chapter 25: Battle on the Waves: A ship based map as Marth crosses into Southern Macedon by boat. Chapter 26: Clash in Macedon: Marth rescues Minerva (and Frost) who is being hunted down by Orridyon. Chapter 27: A Knight Filled Sky: The final confrontation against Michalis. We see here that Michalis has been humbled form his brash arrogant self, as he had to rely on Dolhr's help to quell Minerva's rebellion. He blames all of his plans failing on Minerva, revealing that he would have joined Marth by now if not for the civil war. But it's too late now as he's already let Dolhr into his country (there are some manaketes in this chapter to represent that). That's what he claims, at least, but it's clear that it was his own ego that prevented him from doing any of that, as he could have just stopped fighting Minerva at any time, but could not imagine doing something like that. He is killed regardless as Marth meets Gotoh and forges Starlight. Part 5:Shadows' End Chapter 28: The Dark Pontifix: Gotoh warps the party to Thabes where they confront and defeat Gharnef. Falchion is recovered, and the Aum staff is also claimed, but unlike in the original, Elice is nowhere to be seen. Chapter 29: An Unbroken Vow: Marth goes to a shrine in the desert to rescue Elice and the Grustian heirs (they are not playable, because obviously they're too young before the three year time skip). Let's have the boss be a female fire manakete, because we only ever see Divine Dragon female manaketes in the Archanean games. At the end, everyone prepares for the final assault on Dolhr. Chapter 30: Land of the Dragonkin: Marth beats Xemcel in the field and prepares to storm Dolhr castle. If some kind of gameplay mechanic could be imposed here to explain why you have to split your army for the final battle, then that would be nice. Final: Chosen by Fate: Marth, Nyna, Minerva and Hardin finally defeats Medeus and bring peace to the continent. If Shiida is still alive, Marth marries her, which is juxtaposed with the loveless pairing of Hardin and Nyna that is politically decided upon as the game ends. So, yeah, those are my ideas. It is still mostly the same story, there's no dramatic character changes or altered arcs, but hopefully the changes here and there would serve to make the story feel more dynamic, the villains less passive and Marth's allies as more important characters leading expeditions of their own. Any playable character not mentioned here feel free to imaging being slotted in at any point you think works best. Edited January 19 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 (edited) Wait, does the prologue battle occur in Altea, or after their exile to Talys island? Because I'd prefer the latter, since the DS game's prologue implies that Teenage Marth can fairly well hold out against Gra. Only feasibly losing to Jiol's elite knights (who are conspicuously absent from Normal mode chapter 14. In fact, their stats surpass Jiol himself in every area except speed and Res (they're not promoted yet)) I'm no fan of the Final map, and don't think the ability to (intentionally) reposition units "fixed" its design. But if you put a gun to my head and told me to justify the split party, I would have it so that Marth's hallway is obstructed by three walls. Walls that can only be retracted by the other three parties reaching a lever. Also, these three parties don't simple walk toward the middle of the map. Instead, they're all dead ends with a teleport tile (think chapter 6 from Three Houses) that leads them to Marth's section of the map. However, a daemonic force is preventing the use of warp, those teleport tiles, and other global spells until a powerful mage dragon beyond those walls is defeated by Marth's crew. Because a remake should be allowed to prank veteran players expecting a Turn 1 clear and I want a map where all four parties are saving each others' lives before they get overwhelmed by infinite reinforcements. Edited January 16 by Zapp Branniglenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: Wait, does the prologue battle occur in Altea, or after their exile to Talys island? Because I'd prefer the latter, since the DS game's prologue implies that Teenage Marth can fairly well hold out against Gra. Only feasibly losing to Jiol's elite knights (who are conspicuously absent from Normal mode chapter 14. In fact, their stats surpass Jiol himself in every area except speed and Res (they're not promoted yet)) I was envisioning it happening in Talys so we can see some of his life there and make his defense of it meaningful. The actual Shadow Dragon prologue wasn't factoring into my ideas, though if we were to get something like that again I'd insist on actually getting to see Marth's mother, Liza. 15 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: I'm no fan of the Final map, and don't think the ability to (intentionally) reposition units "fixed" its design. But if you put a gun to my head and told me to justify the split party, I would have it so that Marth's hallway is obstructed by three walls. Walls that can only be retracted by the other three parties reaching a lever. Also, these three parties don't converge in the middle of the map, they're all dead ends with a teleport tile (think chapter 6 from Three Houses). However, a daemonic force is preventing the use of warp, those teleport tiles, and other global spells until a powerful mage dragon beyond those walls is defeated by Marth's crew. Because a remake should be allowed to prank veteran players expecting a Turn 1 clear and I want a map where all four parties are saving each others' lives before they get overwhelmed by infinite reinforcements. While I haven't presented them here as actual lords, since we have four major characters in the form of Marth, Nyna, Hardin and Minerva if each of them led a different section of the map it would be nice from a narrative perspective (if not a gameplay one, though Hardin and Minerva's later join time would probably make them decently ready for endgame). Edited January 16 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 1 hour ago, Jotari said: The battle (against Gomer) goes more smoothly than expected, the threat seemingly exaggerated. But forces from Grust turn up to inspect the situation and Marth is forced to flee back to Talys lest he be discovered (Ogma and the official Talys forces remain behind to treat with the expedition from Grust). If the maps on the wiki.org are to be trusted, what the fuck are Grustians doing on a port near/within Talys. These two kingdoms couldnt be further apart. 1 hour ago, Jotari said: Chapter 4: Battle in the Lea: This chapter is pretty minor in the original, the main focus here would be the return of Merric and what information he brings about Khadein. Insert Macedonian Postal System Dracoknight telling the big bads that the boy prince is still alive. 1 hour ago, Jotari said: Chapter 7: Lefandith Gauntlet: This is largely unchanged. Only an actual scene between Marth and Minerva should play out. This is also where Bantu joins like in Shadow Dragon. I dunno why, but I think Caeda fits the "Talk to the warrior princess on the flying steed" task better. Do I know why? No. 1 hour ago, Jotari said: Xemcel from the Dolhr chapter is also here overseeing the assault. Throw in a new Manakete, a Pyrathi survivor maybe lol, Xemcel specifcally guards Dohlr Keep to ensure Eggdeus hatches into Fully-Evil-Dragon-deus. 1 hour ago, Jotari said: Chapter 30: Land of the Dragonkin: Marth beats Xemcel in the field and prepares to storm Dolhr castle. If some kind of gameplay mechanic could be imposed here to explain why you have to split your army for the final battle, then that would be nice. Storm the Keep from different angles, to deactivate shrines enhancing Medeus, so that a capped Marth may survive 1 round of combat >< Also, get Gra out on more maps, the second Jiol learns of Marths survival (i.e. chapter 4) he should be shivering in his boots. Let his Elite Knights, vulnerable to Armorslayers and Hammers put a timer on every map. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said: If the maps on the wiki.org are to be trusted, what the fuck are Grustians doing on a port near/within Talys. These two kingdoms couldnt be further apart. That's where Grust the homeland is, but Grust is occupying Archanea at the start of the game. There are actual Grust reinforcements on the map in Shadow Dragon. They just go uncommented on. By making more of a point of them you show that the villains sphere of influence is expanding and that Talys won't be safe forever. 9 minutes ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said: Throw in a new Manakete, a Pyrathi survivor maybe lol, Xemcel specifcally guards Dohlr Keep to ensure Eggdeus hatches into Fully-Evil-Dragon-deus. That's precisely why I want to give him more screen time. He's the penultimate boss, would be nice to see him more than once and get a sense of who he is. As an end game boss it should also ensure he's pretty undefeatable going up against Marth at that point. 9 minutes ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said: Also, get Gra out on more maps, the second Jiol learns of Marths survival (i.e. chapter 4) he should be shivering in his boots. Let his Elite Knights, vulnerable to Armorslayers and Hammers put a timer on every map. Something more could certainly be done with Gra. Maybe as enemy reinforcements during the battle for Archanea. Edit: A good bit of motivation for Jiol and a reason for the villain factions to not get along, Jiol feels slighted that occupation of Altea has been given the Grust as he sees it as his ancestral lands and wants to annex it. Edited January 16 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 4 minutes ago, Jotari said: I was envisioning it happening in Talys so we can see some of his life there and make his defense of it meaningful. Yeah. Makes sense Marth would get more interested in fighting when he's got this fool idea in his head that he'll take it all back. Also we get to have a Meet Cute scene with the princess. Quote While I haven't presented them here as actual lords, since we have four major characters in the form of Marth, Nyna, Hardin and Minerva if each of them led a different section of the map it would be nice from a narrative perspective (if not a gameplay one, though Hardin and Minerva's later join time would probably make them decently ready for endgame). This works for me. Though on the subject of Hardin I don't like the idea of them being uncontrollable green units in chapter 5. Where the fail condition is out of the players' hands. You could conceivably script out a series of interactions where green units die on Turn X, but controllable/fighting Nyna is a big variable that would immediately throw it out of sequence (and so would the single digit chance of a miss or crit). Changing the win condition from Seize to have Nyna talk to Marth is a compelling idea though. I would make them all controllable units. Just the Wolfguard - Hardin stayed behind at the castle to stem their forces as best he can before catching up with her as he promised he would. So Nyna's section of the map is a linear escape chapter through the mountains to the south. While Marth's crew is just working their way over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 7 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: Yeah. Makes sense Marth would get more interested in fighting when he's got this fool idea in his head that he'll take it all back. Also we get to have a Meet Cute scene with the princess. This works for me. Though on the subject of Hardin I don't like the idea of them being uncontrollable green units in chapter 5. Where the fail condition is out of the players' hands. You could conceivably script out a series of interactions where green units die on Turn X, but controllable/fighting Nyna is a big variable that would immediately throw it out of sequence (and so would the single digit chance of a miss or crit). Changing the win condition from Seize to have Nyna talk to Marth is a compelling idea though. I would make them all controllable units. Just the Wolfguard - Hardin stayed behind at the castle to stem their forces as best he can before catching up with her as he promised he would. So Nyna's section of the map is a linear escape chapter through the mountains to the south. While Marth's crew is just working their way over. I would like the majority of the Wolfguard to remain with Hardin for his cutaway chapter, but the series has given us blue units briefly for one chapter before and then taken them away and this would be as good an opportunity as ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPGuy96 Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 I think this is a really cool idea. I'd probably go even more on in Hardin and Minerva leading their own forces to do their own things ala Radiant Dawn. Give Hardin and the Wolfguard main army status for your chapters 13 and 14, while Marth fights in the slave market in chapter 12 and shows up late in chapter 14 in the Palace. Nyna gives Marth the Fire Emblem even though Hardin did most of the work. Afterwards, Nyna stays with Hardin and they bicker about invading Grust - eventually Hardin prevails and he gets your Chapters 22 and 24, so Marth doesn't fight Camus but Hardin sure does, with Nyna watching. Give Minerva and her Whitewings your chapters 11, 25, 26, and 27 (maybe not all in a row), and have Marth show up with the advance guard of his army in 27 to lend his support and finally defeat Michaelis. Marth does the initial stuff around the islands in the east, and jointly liberates Archanea with Hardin. He then goes on to fight Gra, then detours in Khadein, and liberates Altea. Hardin meets up with Marth at Orleans, does most of the work in liberating Archanea, then passes through Khadein and Raman - battling the Sable Order on the way - to fight Grust and Camus, claiming the Gradivus in the process. Minerva lands her forces in Macedon and fights her civil war, though she needs Marth's support to finally win. For end of the game, either Hardin and Minerva can join up with Marth to do Raman and Thabes, or they lead an initial assault on Dohlr while Marth collects Tiki and the Falchion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ping Posted January 16 Share Posted January 16 5 hours ago, RPGuy96 said: I'd probably go even more on in Hardin and Minerva leading their own forces to do their own things ala Radiant Dawn. Yeah, going full (or at least 75%) Radiant Dawn is something I could see, too. At some point, you'd probably have to cut some map from Marth to give Hardin and Minerva some additional space without inflating the game to an unreasonable degree, but there are a few maps that Marth doesn't absolutely need. Like, most of Book 1's removals are justifiable, and if that's not enough (depending on how much you want the B and C team to do), it might also be possible to cut some of the indoor maps. For example, turn Knorda Market into that big epic showdown to liberate Akaneia, with multiple bosses and big scary dragons and waves of reinforcements and on both sides and whatnot, but eliminate Pales, Akaneia to reduce the number of chapters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 16 Author Share Posted January 16 5 minutes ago, ping said: Yeah, going full (or at least 75%) Radiant Dawn is something I could see, too. At some point, you'd probably have to cut some map from Marth to give Hardin and Minerva some additional space without inflating the game to an unreasonable degree, but there are a few maps that Marth doesn't absolutely need. Like, most of Book 1's removals are justifiable, and if that's not enough (depending on how much you want the B and C team to do), it might also be possible to cut some of the indoor maps. For example, turn Knorda Market into that big epic showdown to liberate Akaneia, with multiple bosses and big scary dragons and waves of reinforcements and on both sides and whatnot, but eliminate Pales, Akaneia to reduce the number of chapters. The other option is to just not reduce the number of chapters. Shadow Dragon has 25 chapters, Radiant Dawn has over 40. You could add an extra 10 chapters for others to do things and have more battles around the continent without the game dragging excessively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted January 17 Share Posted January 17 20 hours ago, Jotari said: Chapter 21: Loedstar: Pretty much the same as in Shadow Dragon, Marth reclaims his home, but is grieved to learn that his mother is definitely dead. He meets the cheering crowd with a fake smile as he holds back the tears. Unlike the original, however, he promotes at this point, becoming a Loedstar. Any reason for spelling this "Loedstar", as opposed to "Lodestar"? I do like the idea of Marth promoting, but I must ask - what new power does it grant him? 20 hours ago, Jotari said: Chapter 22: Cashmere: Nyna comes into conflict with Marth and Hardin as she thinks they shouldn't invade Grust and play the war defensively. Hardin wants to go to Macedon next and assist Minerva, who is losing her war against Michalis (he knows Minerva from the BS Saga chapter which still happened even if it's not played out). But Marth convinces them to trust in Gotoh's words and seek out the Fane of Raman. Marth marches into Cashmere and faces Sternlin again, this time coming out victorious. Nyna confesses to Marth that the reason she didn't want to invade Grust was because of her affair with Camus. Est shows up mid map with Mercurius. I wasn't sure why everyone was suddenly so obsessed with fine wool, until I realized that this was Europe's version of the bridge that NoA refers to as "Chiasmir". 20 hours ago, Jotari said: Chapter 28: The Dark Pontifix: Gotoh warps the party to Thabes where they confront and defeat Gharnef. Falchion is recovered, and the Aum staff is also claimed, but unlike in the original, Elice is nowhere to be seen. Chapter 29: An Unbroken Vow: Marth goes to a shrine in the desert to rescue Elice and the Grustian heirs (they are not playable, because obviously they're too young before the three year time skip). Let's have the boss be a female fire manakete, because we only ever see Divine Dragon female manaketes in the Archanean games. At the end, everyone prepares for the final assault on Dolhr. Any reason for this switch? It seems kind of arbitrary. Like, you could have Elice at the end of chapter 28, and Aum in chapter 29. Hell, maybe they're trying to force Yumina to use the Aum staff. Definitely here for the notion of "enemy female Manakete boss". More female enemies in general (and in Paladin), please! 20 hours ago, Jotari said: But forces from Grust turn up to inspect the situation and Marth is forced to flee back to Talys lest he be discovered (Ogma and the official Talys forces remain behind to treat with the expedition from Grust). This doesn't make any sense. Why would Talys forces stick around to fight Grust? Talys' survival depends upon being as small and inconspicuous as possible, while surrounded by much greater powers. Getting into a fight with one of the continent's "great powers", over territory that isn't even theirs, seems ill-conceived at a bare minimum. 19 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: Wait, does the prologue battle occur in Altea, or after their exile to Talys island? Because I'd prefer the latter, since the DS game's prologue implies that Teenage Marth can fairly well hold out against Gra. Only feasibly losing to Jiol's elite knights (who are conspicuously absent from Normal mode chapter 14. In fact, their stats surpass Jiol himself in every area except speed and Res (they're not promoted yet)) Alternatively, we could turn the Prologue on its head. Babby Marth can't fight yet. He doesn't even have a Sword rank. Instead, his soldiers have to fight - and die - to buy him time to escape. It's seeing their heroic sacrifice - and his own helplessness, measured against him - that spur him on to train, becoming a worthy Prince of Altea. 20 hours ago, Jotari said: Chapter 3x: The Beginning: We move away from Marth's army for chapter and play through Nyna and Camus' chapter of Archanea saga. Nyna is freed from imprisonment in Archanea and brought to Aurelis by Camus who is in turn taken into custody at the end of the chapter. Not only is the Nyna-Camus romance one of the few plot points in the original story that gets focus, but playing this chapter out directly means you get to see Medeus for the first time in the story instead of him showing up literally at the end and nowhere else. I've been mostly critical, but I do like these bits. Maps where Marth isn't the main Lord anymore, and we see more sides to the war. 4 hours ago, Jotari said: The other option is to just not reduce the number of chapters. Shadow Dragon has 25 chapters, Radiant Dawn has over 40. You could add an extra 10 chapters for others to do things and have more battles around the continent without the game dragging excessively. I say this as someone who loves Radiant Dawn - its length is not something to be emulated. 20 hours ago, Jotari said: Final: Chosen by Fate: Marth, Nyna, Minerva and Hardin finally defeats Medeus and bring peace to the continent. Request: For Medeus to actually turn into a Shadow Dragon. For a game called "Shadow Dragon", and "the War of Shadows", it's bizarre that you only fight an "Earth Dragon". Maybe it could be retconned into a two-stage fight? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 17 Author Share Posted January 17 (edited) 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Any reason for spelling this "Loedstar", as opposed to "Lodestar"? Only my own incompetence. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: I do like the idea of Marth promoting, but I must ask - what new power does it grant him? At the very least move+1. Beyond that it really depends on what the game is like. I'm imagining a game without necessarily the same gameplay but not anything specific. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: I wasn't sure why everyone was suddenly so obsessed with fine wool, until I realized that this was Europe's version of the bridge that NoA refers to as "Chiasmir". I have no idea how I'm meant to pronounce that NoA name. Is it Cheese-Mir? Key-ass-mir? Chasm-ir? Looking at the name chart though it actually looks like the European version also spells it that way? Unless the chart is wrong. I'm not pulling Cashmere out of my ass though as that's what it's called in fan translations (seems I'm accidentally using three different translations). Kashmir is a location in, I think, India where the wool is named after. But it is a bit out of place to have a random Indian region in with all this European stuff, so I can understand why they changed it...still Cashmere sounds more like English than Chiasmir. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Any reason for this switch? It seems kind of arbitrary. Like, you could have Elice at the end of chapter 28, and Aum in chapter 29. Hell, maybe they're trying to force Yumina to use the Aum staff. To put more focus on rescuing Elice as a goal, as throwing her in a the end of Gharnef makes her release feel more incidental. It also puts all the prisoners together, which means Elice can have some scenes with Yuminia Yubello looking after them like Elbert did with Nilas and Ninian. Though now that I think of it, the rescue mission could come first so defeating Gharnef takes two consecutive chapters rather than beating him in one chapter and then wrapping things up. Doing it that way would mean an extra chapter with playable Elice and an actual chance for her to confront Gharnef and have a battle quote with him. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: This doesn't make any sense. Why would Talys forces stick around to fight Grust? Talys' survival depends upon being as small and inconspicuous as possible, while surrounded by much greater powers. Getting into a fight with one of the continent's "great powers", over territory that isn't even theirs, seems ill-conceived at a bare minimum. They're not fighting with Grust, they're treating with Grust. Talking to them and distracting them so Marth and co can escape. Talys and Grust aren't formally at war (yet) so there's no reason to fight. Unlike the original game the Grust soldiers don't actually show up on the map, there's just news of their arrival at the end, and possibly an early cameo of a Grust character like Roger. 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Request: For Medeus to actually turn into a Shadow Dragon. For a game called "Shadow Dragon", and "the War of Shadows", it's bizarre that you only fight an "Earth Dragon". Maybe it could be retconned into a two-stage fight? Yeah, it's weird. Blame Mystery of the Emblem trying to up the ante for that one. Edited January 17 by Jotari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 On 1/16/2024 at 11:22 PM, Jotari said: At the very least move+1. Beyond that it really depends on what the game is like. I'm imagining a game without necessarily the same gameplay but not anything specific. Perhaps at that point, Marth could integrate the Fire Emblem - and its powers - into his design? So that it's not taking up an inventory slot anymore. Alternatively, his promotion - or promotion in general - could grant an additional inventory slot. IS seems reluctant, so far, to vary inventory sizes by class or unit. On 1/16/2024 at 11:22 PM, Jotari said: have no idea how I'm meant to pronounce that NoA name. Is it Cheese-Mir? Key-ass-mir? Chasm-ir I'm assuming it to be a "hard ch", so that it would sound like "kee-AZ-meer". But I can't find how it's written in katakana anywhere. There's an old map with the location, but it's illegible. On 1/16/2024 at 11:22 PM, Jotari said: They're not fighting with Grust, they're treating with Grust. Talking to them and distracting them so Marth and co can escape. Talys and Grust aren't formally at war (yet) so there's no reason to fight. Unlike the original game the Grust soldiers don't actually show up on the map, there's just news of their arrival at the end, and possibly an early cameo of a Grust character like Roger. ...Okay, this was just me misinterpreting what you were proposing. My bad. On 1/16/2024 at 11:22 PM, Jotari said: To put more focus on rescuing Elice as a goal, as throwing her in a the end of Gharnef makes her release feel more incidental. It also puts all the prisoners together, which means Elice can have some scenes with Yuminia Yubello looking after them like Elbert did with Nilas and Ninian. Though now that I think of it, the rescue mission could come first so defeating Gharnef takes two consecutive chapters rather than beating him in one chapter and then wrapping things up. Doing it that way would mean an extra chapter with playable Elice and an actual chance for her to confront Gharnef and have a battle quote with him. I see what you're going for, but it raises some questions. How and when does Gharnef get the Aum Staff? Is he trying to capture Elice, or another princess, for her to use it? We know he keeps Elice in the base game to use Aum, but who does he want her to revive, anyway? Here's an idea - Gharnef is successful. He does force Elice (or maybe Yumina or Maria) to use the Aum Staff, whuch resurrects Medeus. Right now, Medeus' resurrection is explained as "somehow Medeus returned". This would create an actual mechanical and narrative explanation for him coming back. The Aum Staff could still have an additional use on it, once it gets into the player's hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Perhaps at that point, Marth could integrate the Fire Emblem - and its powers - into his design? So that it's not taking up an inventory slot anymore. It would be nice to have the Fire Emblem be more relevant than an infinite use chest key. 12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Alternatively, his promotion - or promotion in general - could grant an additional inventory slot. IS seems reluctant, so far, to vary inventory sizes by class or unit. That's an interesting idea, and not one I've ever considered. But, if a game were to vary inventory slots by class, what classes would and wouldn't gravitate towards big inventory slots? A merchant like class with a very big inventory capacity would fit well, and I suppose it could be a decent and somewhat logical way to nerf mounted and flying enemies. 12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: I'm assuming it to be a "hard ch", so that it would sound like "kee-AZ-meer". But I can't find how it's written in katakana anywhere. There's an old map with the location, but it's illegible. Katakana won't help figuring out what the localization team were going for as the original Japanese name is カシミア, Cashmere, like the wool. 12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: I see what you're going for, but it raises some questions. How and when does Gharnef get the Aum Staff? Is he trying to capture Elice, or another princess, for her to use it? We know he keeps Elice in the base game to use Aum, but who does he want her to revive, anyway? Well that's less an issue when anything in my re-conceptualization here and more an issue with the game itself. And one Shadow Dragon DS kind of fixes by moving Aum to the shrine in Dolhr. Though it's still said that Gharnef wanted Elice to use Aum. 12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Here's an idea - Gharnef is successful. He does force Elice (or maybe Yumina or Maria) to use the Aum Staff, whuch resurrects Medeus. Right now, Medeus' resurrection is explained as "somehow Medeus returned". This would create an actual mechanical and narrative explanation for him coming back. The Aum Staff could still have an additional use on it, once it gets into the player's hands. It's a nice idea, however, my issue with it is the timeline. By the time Marth beats Medeus, the war has been going on for five years, with Elice being captured in the second year of the war. It would be a bit hard for him to resurrect Medeus before Elice comes into his power. Medeus was also resurrected three years before war with Archanea actually broke out, and honestly I really like that there's a waiting period in which Medeus actually had to organize and prepare his kingdom. So while Aum being the thing to resurrect Medeus is a good idea, it would require either a tonne of rewriting so Medeus is revived in the middle of the war and all these countries manage to do this without him, turning him kind of into Sombron in Act 1 of Engage. Or it would have to be someone other than Elice. The only canonical Cleirc princess are Maria and Yumia, and the resurrection of Medeus might even predate the latter's birth! And Gharnef kidnapping any of them before the war would be a pretty dang major diplomatic incident that would directly lead to war. The only solution I can think of to merge Aum and Medeus' revival is to invent a new princess character specifically to do it. Maybe some kind of older relative of Nyna (oh hey, Nyna's a cleric too, but she faces similar issues to Maria and Elice). Maybe even an evil princess willingly working alongside Gharnef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted January 18 Share Posted January 18 15 minutes ago, Jotari said: It would be nice to have the Fire Emblem be more relevant than an infinite use chest key. *gasps* now he can open doors and lower bridges? Maybe even... close and lock them? Tbh, isn´t the Fire Emblem just the weakened remnants of Nagas Seal on the Earth Dragons? Not even complete in the timeline of Shadow Dragon, what with the Balls of Significance getting sold by Adrah. Makes perfect sense it isn´t an item of particular use to non-Divine Dragons, tho seeing it´s a shield it could give Marth some DEF/RES bonuses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 18 Author Share Posted January 18 54 minutes ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said: Tbh, isn´t the Fire Emblem just the weakened remnants of Nagas Seal on the Earth Dragons? In Mystery of the Emblem it is. In Shadow Dragon it's just a nothing plot point despite naming the series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shanty Pete's 1st Mate Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 12 hours ago, Jotari said: It would be nice to have the Fire Emblem be more relevant than an infinite use chest key. Hm... what if the Fire Emblem gave him the "Provoke" effect that Marth had in FE1? Although, whether that's a "pro" or a "con" is up for debate. Alternatively, it opens a rift through space and time that... gives Marth and adjacent allies access to the Convoy. Powerful stuff, no? 11 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said: Tbh, isn´t the Fire Emblem just the weakened remnants of Nagas Seal on the Earth Dragons? Not even complete in the timeline of Shadow Dragon, what with the Balls of Significance getting sold by Adrah. Makes perfect sense it isn´t an item of particular use to non-Divine Dragons, tho seeing it´s a shield it could give Marth some DEF/RES bonuses. Putting these together, what if the Fire Emblem drastically cut damage from Manaketes' attacks? Sort of a "firewall". The Fire Emblem is then perfect for defending against dragons, while the Falchion is perfect for attacking dragons. They would work in tandem for the ultimate Manakete-buster. 12 hours ago, Jotari said: That's an interesting idea, and not one I've ever considered. But, if a game were to vary inventory slots by class, what classes would and wouldn't gravitate towards big inventory slots? A merchant like class with a very big inventory capacity would fit well, and I suppose it could be a decent and somewhat logical way to nerf mounted and flying enemies. Yeah, I was thinking along those lines. Something like "Cavalry and Fliers get three slots, Generic Infantry get four slots, and Armors and Thieves get five slots. Every class gains one slot on promotion". So classes with more mobility would be item-limited, and vice-versa. Thieves having an extra slot because... well, the whole point of being a Thief is acquiring loads of junk. 12 hours ago, Jotari said: Katakana won't help figuring out what the localization team were going for as the original Japanese name is カシミア, Cashmere, like the wool. Hm, a strict transliteration would look like "Kashimia". Which is basically the same as "Kashmir", which is essentially "Cashmere". Point is, direct transliteration can get ugly. Maybe they changed to "Chiasmir" to avoid referencing a real-world location? Not like they're consistent with this, considering that Minerva is... well, Macedonian (in NoA). 12 hours ago, Jotari said: It's a nice idea, however, my issue with it is the timeline. By the time Marth beats Medeus, the war has been going on for five years, with Elice being captured in the second year of the war. Yeah, it depends on how faithful you want to remain to the existibg canon. It's at your discretion, obviously. But it's never sat right with me, how Gharnef is able to revive Medeus... twice... without using the one tool in the world that can bring back the dead. Here's my plea for "war starts without Medeus". Rather than an alliance between Medeus and Gharnef, it's one between Xemcel and Gharnef. Xemcel wants to revive Medeus to restore Dolhr, while Gharnef wants to rule Khadein, and eventually, the world. Gharnef has the Darksphere (and thereby Imhullu), but he can't beat Miloah, who has Starlight (in this alt canon, Gotoh crafted the tome for him shortly after Gharnef fled). But you know what Starlight can't beat? A Mage Dragon. Gharnef sneaks Xemcel in while "surrending" to Miloah, letting him launch a surprise attack, and taking Khadein. He then "splits up" Starlight and stows the orbs in the Fane of Raman, where he also eventually puts Tiki. At the same time, their new allies in Gra have betrayed Altea, and taken Queen Liza and Princess Elice hostage. Xemcel has also picked up Aum from its shrine in Dolhr. Gharnef faces Elice with a simple choice - use Aum to revive Medeus, or watch her mother die in front of her. Over Liza's protestations, Elice accepts, and brings Medeus back to life. This makes Dolhr stronger than ever before, coaxing Macedon to join them. Liza gets to live yet - she's sent back to Altea, in hopes her presence will quell the anxious populace, although Morzas eventually kills her. Meanwhile Elice stays in Gharnef's custody, while Xemcel - still none too trusting of Gharnef - takes the Aum staff back. ...Or you could reverse these two, IDK. Anyway, that's my proposal. I think the war could work without Medeus revived right away. In fact, it would arguably synergize better with the whole "Medeus is still too weak to leave the castle" vibe, if his revival was still relatively recent. But I can understand being reluctant to make any changes that are too substantial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Hm... what if the Fire Emblem gave him the "Provoke" effect that Marth had in FE1? Although, whether that's a "pro" or a "con" is up for debate. Alternatively, it opens a rift through space and time that... gives Marth and adjacent allies access to the Convoy. Powerful stuff, no? Putting these together, what if the Fire Emblem drastically cut damage from Manaketes' attacks? Sort of a "firewall". The Fire Emblem is then perfect for defending against dragons, while the Falchion is perfect for attacking dragons. They would work in tandem for the ultimate Manakete-buster. Yeah, I was thinking along those lines. Something like "Cavalry and Fliers get three slots, Generic Infantry get four slots, and Armors and Thieves get five slots. Every class gains one slot on promotion". So classes with more mobility would be item-limited, and vice-versa. Thieves having an extra slot because... well, the whole point of being a Thief is acquiring loads of junk. Hm, a strict transliteration would look like "Kashimia". Which is basically the same as "Kashmir", which is essentially "Cashmere". Point is, direct transliteration can get ugly. Maybe they changed to "Chiasmir" to avoid referencing a real-world location? Not like they're consistent with this, considering that Minerva is... well, Macedonian (in NoA). Yeah, it depends on how faithful you want to remain to the existibg canon. It's at your discretion, obviously. But it's never sat right with me, how Gharnef is able to revive Medeus... twice... without using the one tool in the world that can bring back the dead. Here's my plea for "war starts without Medeus". Rather than an alliance between Medeus and Gharnef, it's one between Xemcel and Gharnef. Xemcel wants to revive Medeus to restore Dolhr, while Gharnef wants to rule Khadein, and eventually, the world. Gharnef has the Darksphere (and thereby Imhullu), but he can't beat Miloah, who has Starlight (in this alt canon, Gotoh crafted the tome for him shortly after Gharnef fled). But you know what Starlight can't beat? A Mage Dragon. Gharnef sneaks Xemcel in while "surrending" to Miloah, letting him launch a surprise attack, and taking Khadein. He then "splits up" Starlight and stows the orbs in the Fane of Raman, where he also eventually puts Tiki. At the same time, their new allies in Gra have betrayed Altea, and taken Queen Liza and Princess Elice hostage. Xemcel has also picked up Aum from its shrine in Dolhr. Gharnef faces Elice with a simple choice - use Aum to revive Medeus, or watch her mother die in front of her. Over Liza's protestations, Elice accepts, and brings Medeus back to life. This makes Dolhr stronger than ever before, coaxing Macedon to join them. Liza gets to live yet - she's sent back to Altea, in hopes her presence will quell the anxious populace, although Morzas eventually kills her. Meanwhile Elice stays in Gharnef's custody, while Xemcel - still none too trusting of Gharnef - takes the Aum staff back. ...Or you could reverse these two, IDK. Anyway, that's my proposal. I think the war could work without Medeus revived right away. In fact, it would arguably synergize better with the whole "Medeus is still too weak to leave the castle" vibe, if his revival was still relatively recent. But I can understand being reluctant to make any changes that are too substantial. Yeah, change things too much and you kind of run into a "just make a new game territory". I can see how the plot would still work with Medeus received part way through, because the does fuck all during the story. But I'd rather build in what we have for him then shoving him in a box for half the game and making him not only functionally non existent but literally non existent too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lenticular Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Maybe they changed to "Chiasmir" to avoid referencing a real-world location? Not like they're consistent with this, considering that Minerva is... well, Macedonian (in NoA). Possibly because real-world Kashmir is so extremely politically charged and having a fictionalised version of it might invite controversy? I mean, real-world Macedonia is (or was at the time) somewhat politically controversial too, but to a lesser extent, and involving significantly smaller countries. Who knows? As for the overall idea: I have to say that Archanea isn't a setting that's ever interested me. I was going to say that it's probably my least favourite Fire Emblem setting, but then I remembered that Engage exists, so it gets a promotion up to second least favourite. (Yes, even behind Fateslandia.) So on the one hand, a War of Shadows remake isn't something that would excite me at all. But on the other hand, going in and gutting the story and rewriting the whole thing from scratch might be just what is needed to finally show the world in a good light and give it the chance to shine that it deserves. And I'd certainly be more interested in a complete reimagining like this than Yet Another Faithful Remake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 19 Author Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, lenticular said: Possibly because real-world Kashmir is so extremely politically charged and having a fictionalised version of it might invite controversy? I mean, real-world Macedonia is (or was at the time) somewhat politically controversial too, but to a lesser extent, and involving significantly smaller countries. Who knows? The only thing politically controversial about Macedonia was its name, other than that things were pretty smooth there as I understand it. Which is why the only thing you'd want to avoid is the name itself. Which Nintendo of Europe did, changing it to Medon. Maybe because Nintendo of Europe would be more concerned about such European politics than Nintendo of America. Otherwise, as far as I remember, the European translation is generally closer to the Japanese. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imuabicus der Fertige Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Hm... what if the Fire Emblem gave him the "Provoke" effect that Marth had in FE1? Although, whether that's a "pro" or a "con" is up for debate. Depend on how good our theoretical remake Marth is. 11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Alternatively, it opens a rift through space and time that... gives Marth and adjacent allies access to the Convoy. Powerful stuff, no? Nagi is Merlinus confirmed. Just a CG of her handing an elixir through a portal. Deeprealm who? 11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said: Putting these together, what if the Fire Emblem drastically cut damage from Manaketes' attacks? Sort of a "firewall". The Fire Emblem is then perfect for defending against dragons, while the Falchion is perfect for attacking dragons. They would work in tandem for the ultimate Manakete-buster. Make the good end - Medeus defeat - require the player character that deals the finishing blow has to have the FE in it´s inventory, otherwise Medeus just resurrects immediatly on EP and eats the offender. I´m kinda fond of the idea of it being just this thing you carry around with a singular purpose, because God didn´t think people would be dumb enough to steal that holy thing from the holy place. Like Adrah sees this: Spoiler and goes "nuhuh, mine." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zapp Branniglenn Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 (edited) When it comes to Doing a Radiant Dawn with any Fire Emblem remake, wouldn't a key component of that be a proper Micaiah style campaign as part of it? I'm talking about playing as a well meaning group that ends up on the wrong side of the major conflict. And Minerva's the only side protagonist such a story could revolve around in this setting. Fighting for her country, gradually witnessing her brother's warped ambitions and failing to get through to him. Believing that these crass acts of war are for the good of the nation, only to learn that Maria is being held hostage after a mundane act of defiance. Then finally the self-exile as she mounts a daring rescue "before Archanea captures her", believing that Michalis wouldn't care if she lives or dies at the hands of the enemy. And that's when you have the classic Chapter 10, but well into the latter half of the game. Marth's chapters wouldn't be able to play with the whitewings or Maria, but those characters would be able to play a more central role in the story as the only confidants loyal to Minerva and expanding on those relationships better than if they're introduced, individually, one at a time as per usual. Having Minerva be a "Camus" adds dimensionality to both characters. Minerva has people she cares about, and that care about her. Camus doesn't until he's on the final battle for his country's future. Edited January 24 by Zapp Branniglenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 24 Author Share Posted January 24 11 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said: When it comes to Doing a Radiant Dawn with any Fire Emblem remake, wouldn't a key component of that be a proper Micaiah style campaign as part of it? I'm talking about playing as a well meaning group that ends up on the wrong side of the major conflict. And Minerva's the only side protagonist such a story could revolve around in this setting. Fighting for her country, gradually witnessing her brother's warped ambitions and failing to get through to him. Believing that these crass acts of war are for the good of the nation, only to learn that Maria is being held hostage after a mundane act of defiance. Then finally the self-exile as she mounts a daring rescue "before Archanea captures her", believing that Michalis wouldn't care if she lives or dies at the hands of the enemy. And that's when you have the classic Chapter 10, but well into the latter half of the game. Marth's chapters wouldn't be able to play with the whitewings or Maria, but those characters would be able to play a more central role in the story as the only confidants loyal to Minerva and expanding on those relationships better than if they're introduced, individually, one at a time as per usual. Having Minerva be a "Camus" adds dimensionality to both characters. Minerva has people she cares about, and that care about her. Camus doesn't until he's on the final battle for his country's future. Well the Radiant Dawn thing was mroe about capturing the scale and scope I was going for rather than having a literal split army scenario. Though of course the Gaiden chapters focusing on Nyna, Hardin and Minerva I think would be critical for fleshing out the conflict, world and characters. As for everything else you've just said about Minerva as a protagonist...I do have a project in the works that might be somewhat similar to that. I'll get back to you about it in a few months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coreyographed Posted January 27 Share Posted January 27 The main thing I want in a Marth game remake is for the in-game model to actually wield the Fire Emblem shield. I'm really happy that Smash allowed for Fire Emblem's popularity to spread, but it's always bothered me that it has made Marth's appearance without the Fire Emblem more canonical than not since then. It really got to me in Engage of all things, for some reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jotari Posted January 27 Author Share Posted January 27 7 minutes ago, Coreyographed said: The main thing I want in a Marth game remake is for the in-game model to actually wield the Fire Emblem shield. I'm really happy that Smash allowed for Fire Emblem's popularity to spread, but it's always bothered me that it has made Marth's appearance without the Fire Emblem more canonical than not since then. It really got to me in Engage of all things, for some reason. The first game in the series making the Fire Emblem so irrelevant deserves some blame. But yeah, you're right, it is strange how much the Binding Shield is ignored. Especially given how successful Old Mystery was. I made a thread specifically about how it should be used in smash As for here, the best way to give it some gravitas and not just be there would be to incorporate it into his promotion some how. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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