Emblem Hero - Ike: Of Radiance

[Metal Flash]

Started with Marth, now we have Ike. Guess we`re getting Emblem heroes in a random order then.

Good God he has two screen length skill descriptions. Laguz Friend... I have no idea what this skill is meant to do. 

[Ice Dragon]

12 minutes ago, Jotari said:

And that is less significant than Marth having a red gem broach or Hardin getting a complete redesign.

You can identify which game most playable Beorc characters come from just from their designs. It's faster to list the characters with no easily discernable change than the reverse.

From Akaneia, you can identify which game Marth and Hardin come from, and everyone else is identical. Yep. Definitely comparable.

 

8 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Ah, yes, a spin off they don't intend to make many banners out of. Surely Heroes wouldn't put something like that as a category...

And exactly which source game icon would TMS be combined with? Three Hopes has an obvious choice; TMS does not.

The backpacks are still only backpacks, and unlike Three Hopes, the lead characters for the TMS units aren't even from the same world as Akaneia or Awakening. And as far as I can tell, the Mirage characters don't appear to even be the same person as their namesake in the first place anyways.

[Jotari]

23 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

You can identify which game most playable Beorc characters come from just from their designs. It's faster to list the characters with no easily discernable change than the reverse.

From Akaneia, you can identify which game Marth and Hardin come from, and everyone else is identical. Yep. Definitely comparable.

Tiki, Astram (yes really), Gharnef and Shiida too, but that's not my point, my point is that these minor differences are irrelevant. Haar having winged pauldrons is about as important as wether they point upwards and downwards (and that has nothing to do with gravity, they're made of metal).

23 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

And exactly which source game icon would TMS be combined with? Three Hopes has an obvious choice; TMS does not.

Again, not my point. I don't want TMS to be categorized as something else (though there would be advantages to a general spin off category that could include things like TMS, Warriors and Cipher), my point was that Three Hopes is not treated by the same metric. It is a second game in the same setting, like Archanea, with different designs (much more so than PoR-RD) and it is a spin off like TMS. By all the established logic and precedent Three Hopes should have its own category. But it doesn't. And I think that's a good thing. Because giving Hopes its own category isn't useful or necessary, just like giving Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn their own separate categories wasn't useful or necessary.

Edited March 28 by Jotari

[BrightBow]

I can't believe Heroes would actually add such an obscure character as Ike to the game.

[Ice Dragon]

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

and that has nothing to do with gravity, they're made of metal

Pauldrons aren't welded onto your shoulders, nor are they even rigidly affixed to each other. They're attached either to the arm or to another piece of armor using flexible material to allow your arm to rotate at the shoulder, and that means their position can shift around as you move. Gravity absolutely can and will make them sag.

 

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Tiki, Astram (yes really), Gharnef and Shiida too,

I'll take you at your word. You're now sitting at 6 characters with identifiable differences out of a cast of 60+. What do we do with the 50+ other characters whose designs are identical between games?

Tellius has 33 non-Laguz characters that are playable in both games. Of them, only Calill and Stefan have no identifiable differences at all. Volke in his Assassin outfit and Tanith have differences that are small enough that an artist adding or removing detail can obscure the difference. Everyone else can have their source game conclusively identified by either their appearance or their outfit as long as the artist sticks close enough to the model.

 

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

my point is that these minor differences are irrelevant.

It doesn't matter whether you think they're minor or irrelevant. All that matters is that the difference is conclusively identifiable.

 

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

It is a second game in the same setting, like Archanea, with different designs (much more so than PoR-RD) and it is a spin off like TMS. By all the established logic and precedent Three Hopes should have its own category.

If you compare each aspect piece-wise, perhaps, but that's just cherry-picking the similarities without considering the differences present in each comparison.

It's a spin-off like TMS, but Three Hopes is set in an existing setting with a significant overlap in characters whereas TMS is not. So while Three Hopes has the option of being combined with Three Houses or being a standalone source, TMS never had that choice to begin with. If TMS were set in an existing setting, it very well could have been combined.

The characters Three Hopes has that overlap with Three Houses have designs that are even more different than the differences between the two Tellius games, but having more than one design is already the norm in Three Houses, so each character having a third design isn't at all novel. Additionally, Three Hopes isn't a main-series game like Radiant Dawn is, which further weakens its argument for getting a separate entry.

If anything, Three Hopes is probably most similar to Fates: Revelation in terms of its relationship with other games in the series, but even then, you can argue that Three Hopes is a standalone game, whereas Revelation is DLC that requires purchase of one of the base games. However, Revelation still gets its own unique logo in the character announcement trailers (used by Anankos), so it's still recognized as a separate entity from the games it's dependent on.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Pauldrons aren't welded onto your shoulders, nor are they even rigidly affixed to each other. They're attached either to the arm or to another piece of armor using flexible material to allow your arm to rotate at the shoulder, and that means their position can shift around as you move. Gravity absolutely can and will make them sag.

I don't think the style of Haar's Pauldron's fit that description, but, accepting that this is a massive difference and that all the characters are massively identifiable as from one game or the other...so? What does it matter if they're identifiable from one game or the other. Why does that mean they should be categorized from one game or the other? They can take their design from one of the specific two games and note that in the Heroes log book (like Archanea does) and still just be counted as Tellius, just like the Archanea characters that do that. Haar in particular used his Path of Radiance GHB despite being his Radiant Dawn incarnation, because the ultimate truth is that all of the Tellius characters, outside of cases as specific as the Archanean ones, are representing their appearance in both games. They are not going to give us a Path of Radiance Haar and a Radiant Dawn Haar. This also requires us to ignore seasonals where characters where a different costume entirely. Maybe you can tell if Halloween Ilyana is from Path of Radiance or Radiant Dawn at a glance, but in reality she's from neither, she's just Ilyana from the Tellius games.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'll take you at your word. You're now sitting at 6 characters with identifiable differences out of a cast of 60+. What do we do with the 50+ other characters whose designs are identical between games?

I'm not saying anything should be done with the other 50. I'm saying Tellius and Archanea should both be one category each.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It doesn't matter whether you think they're minor or irrelevant. All that matters is that the difference is conclusively identifiable.

And I could just as well say that it doesn't matter that you think 6 is a small number. All that matters is that the differences is conclusively identifiable.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

It doesn't matter whether you think they're minor or irrelevant. All that matters is that the difference is conclusively identifiable.

 

If you compare each aspect piece-wise, perhaps, but that's just cherry-picking the similarities without considering the differences present in each comparison.

It's a spin-off like TMS, but Three Hopes is set in an existing setting with a significant overlap in characters whereas TMS is not. So while Three Hopes has the option of being combined with Three Houses or being a standalone source, TMS never had that choice to begin with. If TMS were set in an existing setting, it very well could have been combined.

Radiant Dawn is also set in an existing setting with significant overlap in characters.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The characters Three Hopes has that overlap with Three Houses have designs that are even more different than the differences between the two Tellius games, but having more than one design is already the norm in Three Houses, so each character having a third design isn't at all novel.

And each character having a second design in Radiant Dawn is a really long stretch of the definition to begin with.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Additionally, Three Hopes isn't a main-series game like Radiant Dawn is, which further weakens its argument for getting a separate entry.

So we have a scenario where

A)Two games in the same setting can have two categories

B)Spin offs can have their own category

Ero, Hopes should have it's own category by this logic. It being a spin off doesn't weaken the argument at all, if anything it reinforces it.

3 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

If anything, Three Hopes is probably most similar to Fates: Revelation in terms of its relationship with other games in the series, but even then, you can argue that Three Hopes is a standalone game, whereas Revelation is DLC that requires purchase of one of the base games. However, Revelation still gets its own unique logo in the character announcement trailers (used by Anankos), so it's still recognized as a separate entity from the games it's dependent on.

Not sure why you want to talk about Fates, as if we do consider that a different game, that's just another example of multiple games using the same category.

Edited March 29 by Jotari

[Lemmy]

Anyone know Ike’s boon stats, if any?

I’m not sure where to look that up anymore.

[Jotari]

Just now, Lemmy said:

Anyone know Ike’s boon stats, if any?

I’m not sure where to look that up anymore.

Can't you just check all that by looking at Trait Change?

[Diovani Bressan]

22 minutes ago, Lemmy said:

Anyone know Ike’s boon stats, if any?

I’m not sure where to look that up anymore.

Emblem Ike has super boons in Atk and Def, and super banes in HP, Spd and Res.

[Lemmy]

33 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Can't you just check all that by looking at Trait Change?

I forgot that was a thing to be honest, thanks for reminding me.

[Flying Shogi]

13 hours ago, Lemmy said:

Anyone know Ike’s boon stats, if any?

I’m not sure where to look that up anymore.

You can find stat variations on the wiki