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If you could travel back in time to change anything about the Smash games, what would you change?


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This could range from characters to development aspects, feel free to voice your time travel fantasy here.

  • Meowth as one of the OG 12 instead of Jigglypuff
  • Melee gets another year of development
  • Azura gets in Sm4sh instead of Corrin
Edited by Perkilator
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  • Perkilator changed the title to If you could travel back in time to change anything about the Smash games, what would you change?
  • Lyn added as a newcomer in Brawl (but not over Ike or Marth, she goes alongside them), and staying on the roster for each subsequent game.
  • The Ice Climbers added to Wii U despite forced absence on the 3DS.
  • Azura gets in over Corrin.
  • Crash Bandicoot as DLC for Ultimate.
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*Have them just call Toon Link by the name Young Link in Brawl. It's silly they were ever viewed as conceptually distinct characters and even sillier we've now ended up with both of them in the same game.

*Give Ganondorf Fox's Reflector down special in Melee. It would actually have been super easy to implement since it's not a special that has any animation, just a single pose and a 2D sprite (which can look like anything for the purpose of the attack). Not only would this make a Ganondorf more authentic to something he can do in the game while being simple to implement, it'd just be plain hilarious in the meta game since Fox and Falco's reflectors are considered the best attacks in Melee by a large stretch.

Edited by Jotari
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I think Meowth would have been a great replacement for Jigglypuff. Though perhaps a bit disappointing if he wasn't represented as Meowth of Team Rocket from the cartoon. I could totally see him using a Pounce Side B that operates just like Diddy's Monkey Flip. I don't even know how they arrived at Diddy Kong scratching people's faces as an attack.

I think the only thing I would change would be having Wolf in place of Falco for Melee. Wolf is IN the game's opening so Falco just seems kind of random. The least recognizable member of Star Fox.

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1. I'd tell Sakurai to try harder to get James Bond in the game and see how a movie character being in the early series affects future rosters.

2. Add Pokefloats to Ultimate

3. Bring back Smash Run

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Hmm... let's see...

Don't really have much in mind. Maybe have it so Marth could get in to Smash 64. It would be within the scope of possibility, as they can make use of Link's low-poly model to make him. Not unlike how it was done with Mario, Luigi, and Ness. Or Kirby and Jigglypuff. This would also allow Marth to have the Binding Shield. As he should, I'd say. It would be interesting to see how FE gets affected with this change. It probably wouldn't change much at first, however. Roy is likely to still be chosen for Melee for publicity of his upcoming game. And it'd likely still need for Advance Wars to get released and score big to convince them to release FE international as well. BUT, if Marth already garnered attention since the 64 days, then perhaps there'd be time for Binding Blade to get an official international release in this timeline. Too late to make something like Lyn Mode, though, which would likely not exist if Blazing Blade is still made... maybe. After that... who knows...

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27 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Not really though. In Smash Ganondorf if Falcondorf who randomly throws around punches instead of using the sorcery or swordplay he's known for. 

Ganondorf does use punches and kicks in his games. And he also uses magic and a sword in Smash.

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64/Melee: More development time

Brawl: Replace Sonic with Pac-Man, change Lucas's VA

Smash 4: Remove Custom Move repeats and add Custom Moves for the DLC Fighters

Ultimate: Lighten the tone and add descriptions to "Summons"/Trophies

Edited by Morgan--Grandmaster
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6 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Make Ganondorf be Ganondorf.

Agreed. It would be hard to do since the reason Ganondorf was Falcondorf was the rush that Melee went through.

In any case, we might not need time travel for this; Tears of the Kingdom brought back Ganondorf, the next Smash game will absolutely want to use the new Ganondorf, and the Ganondorf in Tears of the Kingdom never uses hand-to-hand combat; he is a multi-weapon user and a wielder of gloom magic. The brand new Ganondorf will be an opportunity to completely rework Ganondorf's moveset.

 

4 hours ago, Jotari said:

Ganondorf does use punches and kicks in his games. And he also uses magic and a sword in Smash.

Not once does Ganondorf ever throw a punch in any of his fights; at most, he throws one punch in a cutscene in Wind Waker to extract the Triforce of Courage from Link. He does all of one kick in Twilight Princess in only one phase of his four-phase fight; a phase that otherwise completely revolves around sword combat. Saying he uses punches and kicks in his games because of one punch in a cutscene and one kick in one fight that otherwise revolved around swords is like saying Zelda is a swordfighter because she holds a rapier once in a cutscene in Twilight Princess.

In Ocarina of Time, he completely used magic when fought as Ganondorf and dual-wielded swords when fought as Ganon. In Wind Waker, he dual-wielded two swords. In Twilight Princess, he used magic and a sword while in Zelda's body, used his tusks when fought as a quadrupedal giant boar, used magic while on horseback, and used a sword while fought on foot. In all other games where he's Ganon, he fights entirely using a trident and magic. Overwhelmingly, Ganondorf is a spellcaster and a weapon wielder, not a puncher or kicker.

Ganondorf has all of one sword attack in Smash Bros. Ultimate and none by default in Melee, Brawl or 4. His moveset otherwise revolves around punches and kicks taken directly from Captain Falcon's moveset with magic particle effects stapled on. At least Zelda actually uses spells directly from Ocarina of Time and Spirit Tracks in her special moves.

In any case, you have to at least admit that, if they use the Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf in the next game and his moveset remains the same, that would make no sense for that Ganondorf.

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39 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Not once does Ganondorf ever throw a punch in any of his fights;

He punches the ground in Ocarina of Time. Which they went to the effort of making his forward Aerial even all the way back in Melee.

39 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

Not once does Ganondorf ever throw a punch in any of his fights; at most, he throws one punch in a cutscene in Wind Waker to extract the Triforce of Courage from Link. He does all of one kick in Twilight Princess in only one phase of his four-phase fight; a phase that otherwise completely revolves around sword combat. Saying he uses punches and kicks in his games because of one punch in a cutscene and one kick in one fight that otherwise revolved around swords

What you're doing is listing all the times Ganondorf uses punches and kicks. IE He uses punches and kicks.

39 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

like saying Zelda is a swordfighter because she holds a rapier once in a cutscene in Twilight Princess.
 

Zelda is a Sword Fighter. Look at her slash around a sword in Hyrule Warriors. And in general, Zelda is horrible represented in Smash in terms of doing basically anything she actually does in her own games. She has a grand total of one attack directly inspired by her own games (and even that is a bit of a stretch). Move for move, animation for animation, Ganondorf has always pulled more from his own games than Zelda has (and that's fine).

39 minutes ago, vanguard333 said:

In any case, you have to at least admit that, if they use the Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf in the next game and his moveset remains the same, that would make no sense for that Ganondorf.

Nope. It would make complete sense. As he's still Ganondorf doing all the stuff Ganondorf does.

Edited by Jotari
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Boy this ganondorf business sure comes up a lot. You want a good reference? Behold, the origins of Flame Choke. Ganondorf HAS a sword at his disposal, and elects to murder this dude in a way that's more personal. And now Flame Choke is his most interesting move in Smash, both to use and to get hit by. My tech roll away is always getting caught by yet another Flame Choke until I'm in a corner and then he can more easily respond to my options from there.

Incidentally, this is the most memory-holed cutscene in the series among Zelda fans. For years I've been hearing its "so random that ganondorf shows up at the end after Zant". No, dude, Ganondorf is revealed right here at the midpoint. The Sages speculate AT you that Zant's power probably came from him and that you'll have to deal with him too. And if this isn't your first Zelda game, you believe them because he's part of the titular Legend of Zelda.

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

He punches the ground in Ocarina of Time. Which they went to the effort of making his forward Aerial even all the way back in Melee.

What you're doing is listing all the times Ganondorf uses punches and kicks. IE He uses punches and kicks.

Zelda is a Sword Fighter. Look at her slash around a sword in Hyrule Warriors. And in general, Zelda is horrible represented in Smash in terms of doing basically anything she actually does in her own games. She has a grand total of one attack directly inspired by her own games (and even that is a bit of a stretch). Move for move, animation for animation, Ganondorf has always pulled more from his own games than Zelda has (and that's fine).

Nope. It would make complete sense. As he's still Ganondorf doing all the stuff Ganondorf does.

Yeah, he strikes the ground to create a magic shockwave, with the magic shockwave being the attack. That's him casting a spell.

The point of the list was to show how little he does so to the point that claiming that he punches and kicks is a massive overstatement. Once again, overwhelmingly, Ganondorf is a spellcaster and a weapon wielder; that's what he's known for and mainly relies on.

"Zelda is a swordfighter; just look at [this non-canon spinoff game made by another company that's overstuffed with different movesets]." That's like saying Link fights by sitting in a bottle and having a Great Fairy do all the work; he can do that in a Warriors game, but that's not representative of anything he does in actual Zelda games.

Okay, now it sounds like you're trolling; Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf never once throws a single punch or kick; his every action revolves entirely around weapons and gloom magic. Ganondorf's smash moveset would not be representative of Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf at all.

 

56 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Boy this ganondorf business sure comes up a lot. You want a good reference? Behold, the origins of Flame Choke. Ganondorf HAS a sword at his disposal, and elects to murder this dude in a way that's more personal. And now Flame Choke is his most interesting move in Smash, both to use and to get hit by. My tech roll away is always getting caught by yet another Flame Choke until I'm in a corner and then he can more easily respond to my options from there.

Incidentally, this is the most memory-holed cutscene in the series among Zelda fans. For years I've been hearing its "so random that ganondorf shows up at the end after Zant". No, dude, Ganondorf is revealed right here at the midpoint. The Sages speculate AT you that Zant's power probably came from him and that you'll have to deal with him too. And if this isn't your first Zelda game, you believe them because he's part of the titular Legend of Zelda.

I thought of that during my reply; I do freely admit that, with each iteration, they did try to include more things from the actual Zelda games for Ganondorf's moveset, and including the attack he used to kill the Sage of Water in Twilight Princess was a nice touch.

Yeah, I agree; the game did provide that hint that Ganondorf will be the true final boss. My main problem with the Zant/Ganondorf dynamic in Twilight Princess is that Ganondorf almost feels like an afterthought, mainly because he doesn't do anything except empower Zant and encase Hyrule Castle in a crystal, and he has no real presence in the game aside from two flashbacks until the final boss fight.

 

Anyway, so as not to derail this thread, I would go back in time and have the three House Leaders be the Three Houses DLC fighter instead of Byleth, and, if it couldn't be all three House Leaders, then just Edelgard.

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My favorite "Break the Targets" iteration has to be the Melee variant, with unique stages for each character. I'd love if they brought that through into Brawl, and subsequent games. Maybe include subtle difficulty options, or the ability to try one fighter's stage with a different fighter, after beating it once.

18 hours ago, AzureEmperor said:

2. Add Pokefloats to Ultimate

"Everyone is here?" Try telling that to my Chansey balloon.

On a related note, as far as Poké Balls go, I'd love to see Unown make a comeback.

22 hours ago, Perkilator said:

Azura gets in Sm4sh instead of Corrin

Yes, please! Honestly, I would've changed the whole history for FE representation:

Melee would still be Marth and Roy.

Brawl is now Marth and... Micaiah? That's right. I like Ike, but he was the fighter who turned "blue-haired sword guy" into a trend for FE reps in Smash. From thence, Lucina. And Chrom. And Byleth. Everyone looks the same. Micaiah would look different, and play different.

Smash 4 is Marth, Micaiah, and Robin. "Masked Marth" does show up as an alternate costume for Marth, with a unique voice. In the DLC, we get Azura. Rather than Roy, the other returning DLC character is Ice Climbers. If Rosalina & Luma can work, then so can these two.

- In Ultimate, everyone is here! Marth, Roy, Micaiah, Robin, and Azura. Roy is treated as an "echo" of Marth*, while Anna is introduced as an "echo" of Robin. Within the DLC, we get Teach, but now as a pseudo Pokémon Trainer who can swap between Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude.

* One last thing: Dr. Mario, Pichu, Falco, and Young Link should be treated as echoes of Mario, Pikachu, Fox, and Link, respectively. It's exceedingly funny that the fact that they were among the first clones somehow immunizes them from being recognized as clones.

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8 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Boy this ganondorf business sure comes up a lot. You want a good reference? Behold, the origins of Flame Choke. Ganondorf HAS a sword at his disposal, and elects to murder this dude in a way that's more personal. And now Flame Choke is his most interesting move in Smash, both to use and to get hit by. My tech roll away is always getting caught by yet another Flame Choke until I'm in a corner and then he can more easily respond to my options from there.

Incidentally, this is the most memory-holed cutscene in the series among Zelda fans. For years I've been hearing its "so random that ganondorf shows up at the end after Zant". No, dude, Ganondorf is revealed right here at the midpoint. The Sages speculate AT you that Zant's power probably came from him and that you'll have to deal with him too. And if this isn't your first Zelda game, you believe them because he's part of the titular Legend of Zelda.

Even if it is your first Zelda game, if you have any grasp of narrative flow you're going to realize it's in there for a reason.

7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Yeah, he strikes the ground to create a magic shockwave, with the magic shockwave being the attack. That's him casting a spell.

Sure it is, casting a spell with his fist, like all the punches with purple magic he does in Smash.

7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

The point of the list was to show how little he does so to the point that claiming that he punches and kicks is a massive overstatement. Once again, overwhelmingly, Ganondorf is a spellcaster and a weapon wielder; that's what he's known for and mainly relies on.

It is very literally not an overstatement. It is a binary true statement. Ganondorf does punch and kick his enemies in his own games. That is objectively true.

7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

"Zelda is a swordfighter; just look at [this non-canon spinoff game made by another company that's overstuffed with different movesets]." That's like saying Link fights by sitting in a bottle and having a Great Fairy do all the work; he can do that in a Warriors game, but that's not representative of anything he does in actual Zelda games.

That was a weird choice in Hyrule Warriors alright, but that's not analogues to Zelda. Zelda actually does have a rapier. Hyrule Warriors is a spinoff like Smash which looked at the series and said "This is representative of this character and this is how we can display how they would fight". To which a Zelda wielding a rapier and light arrows is accurate, I'd even say more accurate than the lightning kicker we got in Smash.

7 hours ago, vanguard333 said:

Okay, now it sounds like you're trolling; Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf never once throws a single punch or kick; his every action revolves entirely around weapons and gloom magic. Ganondorf's smash moveset would not be representative of Tears of the Kingdom Ganondorf at all.

It would be representative of Ganondorf. Because he's a composite character. Are you going to tell me Link's up aerial makes no sense because he's not Zelda II Link? The thing about this Ganondorf complaints is that it's a double standard. Ganondorf is more representative of his games than a large swath of the older cast and the high criteria for accuracy he's expected to follow is not one that is levied at other characters.

5 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Brawl is now Marth and... Micaiah? That's right. I like Ike, but he was the fighter who turned "blue-haired sword guy" into a trend for FE reps in Smash. From thence, Lucina. And Chrom. And Byleth. Everyone looks the same. Micaiah would look different, and play different.

Ike wouldn't set that blue haired sword guy trend if they gave him the Engage treatment and had him use Urvan in Smash, saving Ragnell for his final smash. You wouldn't even have to change anything other than the model since most of his attacks looks like they'd fit an axe anyway (okay you'd have to give him a little wider a hitbox at the top of his sword but that's a net positive).

5 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

- In Ultimate, everyone is here! Marth, Roy, Micaiah, Robin, and Azura. Roy is treated as an "echo" of Marth*, while Anna is introduced as an "echo" of Robin. Within the DLC, we get Teach, but now as a pseudo Pokémon Trainer who can swap between Edelgard, Dimitri, and Claude.

Counter suggestion, instead of Anna as a Robin Echo, we get Celica as a Robin Echo. More powerful magic attacks with no durability, but with Pichu's self damaging function. An easy Echo to make mechanically interesting and accurate.

 

Edited by Jotari
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Oh, man, if I'm changing a bunch of FE's history with Smash, then I think I'm going...

  • 64 is as-is.
  • Melee is Marth and Roy.
  • Brawl is Marth, Lyn, and Ike.
  • Wii U/3DS is Marth, Lyn, Ike, and Robin. Roy is back as veteran DLC and Azura is newcomer DLC. No Lucina.
  • Ultimate is all of them back, plus Byleth as DLC just as they were before. No Chrom.

And then, for Assist Trophies...

  • Ayra takes the slot Lyn originally had as an AT.
  • Caeda is added in Wii U/3DS
  • The Black Knight and Tiki are added in Ultimate.
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17 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Counter suggestion, instead of Anna as a Robin Echo, we get Celica as a Robin Echo. More powerful magic attacks with no durability, but with Pichu's self damaging function. An easy Echo to make mechanically interesting and accurate.

TBH I went back and forth between Anna and Celica. What I like about Anna is, after Marth, she's the closest thing this series has to a mascot. On the other hand, Celica does have a game where she's a main character... hm... I do like the idea of having her work Pichu-style, although I do worry she might be too much like Micaiah. That said, if you stuck with Ike as the Tellius rep, then yeah, Celica would be a no-brainer.

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Ike wouldn't set that blue haired sword guy trend if they gave him the Engage treatment and had him use Urvan in Smash, saving Ragnell for his final smash. You wouldn't even have to change anything other than the model since most of his attacks looks like they'd fit an axe anyway (okay you'd have to give him a little wider a hitbox at the top of his sword but that's a net positive).

How about the Ettard for his A-button attacks, and the Urvan for his B-button attacks? That way, Ike's signature weapon - and his father's signature weapon - are both represented. And obviously, Ragnell for the Final Smash.

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I really like the idea of Celica as an Echo for Robin. And for the sword attacks, instead of the Levin sword maybe she could use her own Beloved Zofia sword that has set damage, rather than the rotating Bronze-to-Levin damage Robin has.

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34 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

How about the Ettard for his A-button attacks, and the Urvan for his B-button attacks? That way, Ike's signature weapon - and his father's signature weapon - are both represented. And obviously, Ragnell for the Final Smash.

Depends on what the goal is. If the goal is to make him "Not swordsman" then he should get an axe for all of his attacks (this also helps to mitigate the "Where's his sword beam" issue that he has going on with Ragnell) aside from the final smash. If the goal is to make the most representative and rounded Ike possible, then I'd be fine with him just getting Urvan for his Smash attacks and using Ragnell for everything else. As for Ettard (and the Royal Sword, everyone forgets the Royal Sword. Oh wait that's Alm's sword. The uh, Regal Sword? Or is that Lloyd's sword? Regal Blade? Royal Blade? Uh well his PoR rapier), for that I'd most like to see in the form of *COSTUME CUSTOMIZATION* Let me swap in and out individual parts of the unit model for others to deck out my character in the fashion I most want. Ettard, Ragnell, Not!Rapier, have them all as costume options. Let me give young Link the Mirror Shield and Gilded Sword too! Obviously this is not a feature that would equally impact the whole cast, some would have more options than others, but I'd love something like that even in limited scope.

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1 hour ago, Fire Emblem Fan said:

I really like the idea of Celica as an Echo for Robin. And for the sword attacks, instead of the Levin sword maybe she could use her own Beloved Zofia sword that has set damage, rather than the rotating Bronze-to-Levin damage Robin has.

Beloved Zofia? Ah, you must be thinking of Saber's Golden Dagger. Celica is far too honorable to demand he return the sword that she had given him as payment, after all.

But, perhaps she could use the Ladyblade? It can do magical damage, and tends to outdamage the Beloved Zofia regardless. Even if it's not technically a Celica exclusive.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Depends on what the goal is. If the goal is to make him "Not swordsman" then he should get an axe for all of his attacks (this also helps to mitigate the "Where's his sword beam" issue that he has going on with Ragnell) aside from the final smash. If the goal is to make the most representative and rounded Ike possible, then I'd be fine with him just getting Urvan for his Smash attacks and using Ragnell for everything else. As for Ettard (and the Royal Sword, everyone forgets the Royal Sword. Oh wait that's Alm's sword. The uh, Regal Sword? Or is that Lloyd's sword? Regal Blade? Royal Blade? Uh well his PoR rapier), for that I'd most like to see in the form of *COSTUME CUSTOMIZATION* Let me swap in and out individual parts of the unit model for others to deck out my character in the fashion I most want. Ettard, Ragnell, Not!Rapier, have them all as costume options. Let me give young Link the Mirror Shield and Gilded Sword too! Obviously this is not a feature that would equally impact the whole cast, some would have more options than others, but I'd love something like that even in limited scope.

I get what you're saying, but "rude blue-haired dude who mostly uses Axes" isn't Ike - it's Hector. Obviously they share a lot of traits, but I worry it'd be "salt in the wound" to those fans who really wanted an Ostian noble in the mix.

I might be biased - having played RD first - but I have basically no affection for the "Rapier by another name". Not only does it kinda suck, in a game with 2x effective damage, but it makes no sense. Why is Ike, our first (debatably) Commoner Lord, using a "regal" sword? Maybe it'd make sense as a gift from Elincia, but it was from Greil, so ???.

As for the Ettard, it actually feels like it allows Ike to be his own character. Rather than walking in the footsteps of previous Lords, with their pseudo-Rapiers, he decides to bring a chonky blade into battle. That weight might slow a lesser fighter down, but not the beefed-up, growth-spurted Ike. It doesn't do effective damage, but that's how badass Ike is: he doesn't need effective damage to one-round his enemies. Just a good, solid, natural extension of his arm. The kind of weapon that his father might've used, when he wasn't in a life-or-death scenario, at least.

Costume customization would be very cool, of course. Imagine, Peach getting multiple designs (and movesets) based on her Showtime! appearance. ...Oh, without changing the mechanical properties? That'd be easier to program, and therefore more likely.

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9 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Beloved Zofia? Ah, you must be thinking of Saber's Golden Dagger. Celica is far too honorable to demand he return the sword that she had given him as payment, after all.

But, perhaps she could use the Ladyblade? It can do magical damage, and tends to outdamage the Beloved Zofia regardless. Even if it's not technically a Celica exclusive.

True, Celica would be too honorable to ask for the dagger back to upgrade it to the Beloved Zofia blade, lol. Ladyblade works just as well!

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1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Beloved Zofia? Ah, you must be thinking of Saber's Golden Dagger. Celica is far too honorable to demand he return the sword that she had given him as payment, after all.

But, perhaps she could use the Ladyblade? It can do magical damage, and tends to outdamage the Beloved Zofia regardless. Even if it's not technically a Celica exclusive.

Levin Sword isn't Robin exclusive either, and Ladyblade is what she actually uses in cutscenes.

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

I might be biased - having played RD first - but I have basically no affection for the "Rapier by another name". Not only does it kinda suck, in a game with 2x effective damage, but it makes no sense. Why is Ike, our first (debatably) Commoner Lord, using a "regal" sword? Maybe it'd make sense as a gift from Elincia, but it was from Greil, so ???.

As for the Ettard, it actually feels like it allows Ike to be his own character. Rather than walking in the footsteps of previous Lords, with their pseudo-Rapiers, he decides to bring a chonky blade into battle. That weight might slow a lesser fighter down, but not the beefed-up, growth-spurted Ike. It doesn't do effective damage, but that's how badass Ike is: he doesn't need effective damage to one-round his enemies. Just a good, solid, natural extension of his arm. The kind of weapon that his father might've used, when he wasn't in a life-or-death scenario, at least.

Costume customization would be very cool, of course. Imagine, Peach getting multiple designs (and movesets) based on her Showtime! appearance. ...Oh, without changing the mechanical properties? That'd be easier to program, and therefore more likely.

I have no particular love for it either (I can't even keep its name straight), I just find it amusing how completely overlooked it is. As for the name, it might have been a hint at Greil's origins, because despite how special people like to make Ike as the first commoner lord, he isn't. Greil is a noble. Of course, he's not royalty as far as we know, so Noble Blade would probably have been  better name. Maybe it's a sword he was gifted by Ashnard's father or something. Or maybe it just is an uncomplicated Alm references since both of them do have the same story beat of nobles secretly raised as commoners without their knowledge.

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Considering Flamberge, the Ladyblade could really work as the Levin Sword's echo.

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