Why I Gave Up on Fates

[A.G. Zhark]

I received Fire Emblem: Fates Conquest for my birthday back in 2022. Although I wanted Birthright due to my feelings against the Nohrians. I heard that Birthright was also the easier game, so I ended up spending some money purchasing that in the "Explore Fates" section of the main menu. Anyway, after playing through Birthright, I realized how poor the game handles stats in my opinion. None of my units aside from Ryoma, Corrin, Kaden, Kagero, and occasionally Oboro could ever make follow-up attacks, aside from when holding weapons that prevent them. The speed stats of the rest of my units were painfully low, so most of the time I had to abuse the Fates-inferior version of Pair Up to raise supports to try to make up for the loss of expected speed. With this knowledge, I can only imagine how Conquest would have been.

Two years later, in 2024, I attempted to play Conquest seriously. I knew the game was supposed to be more difficult. I know that stats aren't everything, and you also need to pay attention to what units are used, but the maps are also an issue, and I finally reached a dead end in Chapter 10: Unhappy Reunion. I have attempted this chapter 3 times. In my latest run:

• Silas took the left aisle followed by Felicia to support him.
• Odin stood at the fire orb, and Niles stood at the middle ballista.
• Nyx and Robin went to the right aisle since magic users are strong against bows.
• Azura stayed in the middle to support Odin and Niles.
• Beruka, paired up with Selena followed Camilla and supported Corrin while heading southward towards Oboro and then Takumi.

But there's some problems.

• Once Silas dealt with the two Oni Chieftains, he couldn't do much because of several Ninjas in his way on the way to Hinata.
• There were way too many Sky Knights for Beruka and Camilla to deal with, so Azura and Niles were done for.
• With all the enemies in the way, there was no way that Corrin was getting close to either Oboro and Hinata in the same battle.

Not only do I blame the map itself, but again, the way the game handles difficulty and stats. I know this is a poor comparison, but I have literally beaten JP Blazing Blade had more fun than playing Conquest on Normal/Casual. Maybe because it's maps aren't like mazes with a bunch of gimmicks, apart from Dragon Veins. I genuinely see no way out other than switching to Phoenix mode, which many elitists tend to harp on. Which is also why I feel such worry typing this. Sites and forums like r/fireemblem have nothing but LOVE for elitist play styles (something along the lines of Maddening/Classic or Lunatic/Classic) and yet tend to complain, and those kinds of players would tear you apart if you had any negative thing to say about the difficulty in a Fire Emblem game other than one or another being "too easy," only to turn around and whine about something mild like Binding Blade.

But this leads me to a final question. If I were to purchase Fates: Revelations, would the difficulty be any worse, and are there any other maps aside from the infamous endgame Takumi map that I need to watch out for?

Edited May 12 by A.G. Zhark
Lied about beating Awakening on Hard/Casual as to soften the blow of my rant. Changed it to beating the Japanese version of Blazing Blade- which I did actually do, and which is actually a challenge.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Holy moly if you did not care for Fates, Revelation will not change your mind. You're typing up about map design and unit balance and Revelation is The Worst in those areas. In the entire franchise, not just the three versions of Fates. Revelation is for a) people who liked Fates and b) people whose biggest issue with Fates is that not everybody gets to be Corrin's friend.

You should flip on Phoenix Mode. If you just want to beat the game, see how the story shakes out, do it. They put it in the game for precisely this scenario. They allowed you the option to lower the difficulty settings precisely because they knew this was a polarizing, complicated set of mechanics that aren't built with permadeath in mind. Nobody on this Forum is going to make snarky comments. Maybe you'll end up liking the game. Maybe you'll subconsciously master Attack Stance and Pair Up and decide to take on the harder difficulties on your next playthrough. Who knows?

[Jotari]

51 minutes ago, A.G. Zhark said:

only to turn around and whine about something mild like Binding Blade.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying the difficulty of Binding Blade is mild compared to Conquest.

51 minutes ago, A.G. Zhark said:

But this leads me to a final question. If I were to purchase Fates: Revelations, would the difficulty be any worse, and are there any other maps aside from the infamous endgame Takumi map that I need to watch out for?

That might be a moot point. I don't think you can buy Revelation anymore, as they didn't make physical copies and the 3DS's online support finished last month. Unless that's only for gameplay and shopping is still up for a while.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

1 hour ago, A.G. Zhark said:

None of my units aside from Ryoma, Corrin, Kaden, Kagero, and occasionally Oboro could ever make follow-up attacks, aside from when holding weapons that prevent them. The speed stats of the rest of my units were painfully low,

Of the top of my head, the units of FEF:B that don´t double are Subaki, Orochi, Hinata, maybe Takumi, Saizo, Silas, Rinkah, Azama and unused Hayato/Mozu for being obvious lvl 1s.

What difficulty did you play BR on?

1 hour ago, A.G. Zhark said:

Not only do I blame the map itself, but again, the way the game handles difficulty and stats.

Can you elaborate on this? I think it´d be interesting what your thoughts are here, but as far as I can see, you never make specific mention of the issues you faced.

1 hour ago, A.G. Zhark said:

But this leads me to a final question. If I were to purchase Fates: Revelations, would the difficulty be any worse, and are there any other maps aside from the infamous endgame Takumi map that I need to watch out for?

Okay so how the Fates games handle diffculty is approximately as follows: Birthright: Spams you with enemies. Conquest: More difficult and lethal enemy composition. Revelation: Stat inflation. I think in Rev you fight your first promoted units in chapter... 11?

Considering your issues with the other games and, heh, the question of availability... yes.

[Cdijk16]

As Zap Brenniglen said, if you're not enjoying the game on Normal/Casual, turn on Phoenix mode. Games are meant to enjoyed, not suffered through.

However, I have a few suggestions for you on how to beat Unhappy Reunion on Normal/Casual, in case you don't want to resort to Phoenix mode.

1. I recommend pairing up Corrin with Felicia, give him a Magic Tonic and equip him with the Dragonstone and send him southwest.  If he has at least 9 Magic(8 if he has an A support with Felicia) by default, he can 1HKO all the Spear Fighters coming from the southwest while likely taking minimal damage, making it very easy to hold that side of the map and also reach and KO Hinata. You will have to send a different unit to defend the northeast though.

2. Instead of having Odin operate the Fire Orb, give him a Nosferatu tome and send him to the south-eastern 1-tile wide chokepoint. He may also need a defense boosting Pair Up or Tonic. He can hold back all the Oni Savages coming from the south-east practically by himself with this setup, even on Lunatic mode, as long as the Sky Knights don't get involved. Alternatively, you can send him north-east to deal with the archers and have someone else hold the south-eastern chokepoint.

3. If you pass Beruka a Steel Axe and give her a Strength Tonic(this will have to be traded from one of your other units) or +1 Strength-boosting Pair Up, she can 1HKO the Sky Knights on this map, making your life much easier.

4. Play aggressively for the first 7 turns and push the enemy units as far away from the Defend zone as possible. This will give you much more breathing room

Spoiler

once the Dragon Vein gets activated.

 

Edited May 12 by Cdijk16

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

That might be a moot point. I don't think you can buy Revelation anymore, as they didn't make physical copies and the 3DS's online support finished last month. Unless that's only for gameplay and shopping is still up for a while.

Other way around. They removed the ability to buy games from the eShop in 2023, and only recently extended that to "no online communications whatsoever". I actually just tested this on my copy of Fates. Can't purchase any new DLC anymore. I assume Rev is in the same boat.

10 hours ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Conquest: More difficult and lethal enemy composition.

Doesn't CQ increase difficulty by stacking enemies with skills? Which BR and Rev are reluctant to do.

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

12 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Doesn't CQ increase difficulty by stacking enemies with skills? Which BR and Rev are reluctant to do.

Yah. The higher the difficulty, the higher the amount of skills - thus, composition. Dunno a better word to put it, especially when thinking of stuff like chapter 17, or Takumis Big Fucken Wall.

Not 100% if it affects enemy inventories, but wouldn´t surprise me.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Other way around. They removed the ability to buy games from the eShop in 2023, and only recently extended that to "no online communications whatsoever". I actually just tested this on my copy of Fates. Can't purchase any new DLC anymore. I assume Rev is in the same boat.

That seems a weird way of doing it. I remember when the Wii went out of commission I was still able to (and actually did) purchase games for a good two years or something afterwards. Was pretty desperate to find a way to get rid of the last 200 points I never spent XD

[Shadow Mir]

16 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

You're typing up about map design and unit balance and Revelation is The Worst in those areas. In the entire franchise, not just the three versions of Fates.

Should've stuck to just the three versions of Fates tbh. I call bullshit on it being the absolute bottom of the barrel in either one, let alone both. Especially map design. Unless you think spamming long, winding maps makes for good map design??? 

[henrymidfields]

Ironically, I'm one of the many who had bigger problems with Binding Blade. At least with Conquest, there are quite a few opportunities to boost my stats or nerf my enemies, experience payout is scaled (like Pokemon BW or SM onwards). Binding Blade on the other hand, kind of punished me if I didn't have enough speed or accuracy... It's simpler in that it is more a pure numbers game, but that also means you don't have as many opportunities to boost your stats when you need them (or screwed with your units' stat growths).

Conquest is actually very player-phase oriented in general, in part due to how some battle skills are activated, and how enemies often don't respond to your "baits" until you're in attack range of several units. I agree with @Cdijk16 playing aggressively for the first several turns. I don't exactly remember, but I think I prioritized as many flying units as I can. I definitely left Oboro, Hinata, and Takumi alone, as I think they mostly stayed out of range. (You do know that this is "Defend for 10 turns", right?) I would also explore the Mess Hall and the Cooking options in My Castle so that I can get stat buffs and maybe get some extra damage/accuracy.

[A.G. Zhark]

On 5/12/2024 at 3:51 AM, Jotari said:

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying the difficulty of Binding Blade is mild compared to Conquest.

Yes. One reason I did not struggle in Binding Blade is because you are actually given an opportunity to train your units. Fates has these slow "challenge" maps, the "invasion" maps are more for endgame content, and the Arena can't be constantly used and you can't choose what units can enter. 

On 5/12/2024 at 4:59 AM, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

What difficulty did you play BR on?

Can you elaborate on this? I think it´d be interesting what your thoughts are here, but as far as I can see, you never make specific mention of the issues you faced.

I played Birthright and Conquest on Normal/Casual. And what I mean is, that the maps just aren't that great. I would explain more about the maps in Conquest but I have not gotten that far for obvious reasons... and elaboration would not be best considering that this is the Fire Emblem community I'm associating with, not everyone is the nicest when it comes to casual gaming. Not to mention that I do not have an elaboration. The maps are just complicated and gimmicky. Not because of the dragon veins, but other things. The Birthright map where you meet Camilla, Arthur and Effie has way too many narrow corridors. The map where you fight the Daimo and have to "Sing" to Takumi is also bad. The traps just get in my way, and you HAVE to fight them up close and suffer the traps being sprung. Not to mention that Azura has not enough movement to reach Takumi until the Fates-inferior AI decides to have him snipe Azura. A similar thing happened when fighting Robin in the Hero Battle. Corrin and Kaze paired up got as close as possible to the Great Knight yet it didn't budge until Felicia and Azura stepped in the far edge of it's movement range

13 hours ago, henrymidfields said:

I don't exactly remember, but I think I prioritized as many flying units as I can. I definitely left Oboro, Hinata, and Takumi alone, as I think they mostly stayed out of range. (You do know that this is "Defend for 10 turns", right?) I would also explore the Mess Hall and the Cooking options in My Castle so that I can get stat buffs and maybe get some extra damage/accuracy.

The only flying units I could have possibly had was Camilla and Beruka, and only Camilla was strong enough to take down all the Sky Knights in one turn. And of course I know this is a defense map, but few of these kinds of maps in the Fire Emblem series can be cut short if you defeat the boss.

[Jotari]

2 minutes ago, A.G. Zhark said:

Yes. One reason I did not struggle in Binding Blade is because you are actually given an opportunity to train your units. Fates has these slow "challenge" maps, the "invasion" maps are more for endgame content, and the Arena can't be constantly used and you can't choose what units can enter.

Did you play Binding Blade on hard mode? Because it doesn't have a reputation for being on of the more mild titles in the series. I'd definitely rate it ahead of Birthright and Revelation, though Conquest can probably give it a run for it's money on raw difficulty. It's less complex than later titles, but you really have to know what you're doing and understand the game well to have an easy time of it.

[A.G. Zhark]

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Did you play Binding Blade on hard mode? It's less complex than later titles, but you really have to know what you're doing and understand the game well to have an easy time of it.

I played it on Normal several times, and Hard once, but that one time was about three years ago. Binding Blade is usually ranked as difficult due to unit stats, poor RNG, etc., and not actually due to challenging design compared to Conquest, so I think I see what you mean.

[Jotari]

Just now, A.G. Zhark said:

I played it on Normal several times, and Hard once, but that one time was about three years ago. Binding Blade is usually ranked as difficult due to unit stats, poor RNG, etc., and not actually due to challenging design compared to Conquest, so I think I see what you mean.

Unit stats are part of the design though.

[A.G. Zhark]

9 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Unit stats are part of the design though.

Then my complaints about the difficulty in Conquest, or Fates entirely are just as valid as over 50% of the Fire Emblem community complaining about Binding Blade being "too difficult."

[A.G. Zhark]

On 5/12/2024 at 3:37 AM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Holy moly if you did not care for Fates, Revelation will not change your mind. You're typing up about map design and unit balance and Revelation is The Worst in those areas. In the entire franchise, not just the three versions of Fates. Revelation is for a) people who liked Fates and b) people whose biggest issue with Fates is that not everybody gets to be Corrin's friend.

You should flip on Phoenix Mode. If you just want to beat the game, see how the story shakes out, do it. They put it in the game for precisely this scenario. They allowed you the option to lower the difficulty settings precisely because they knew this was a polarizing, complicated set of mechanics that aren't built with permadeath in mind. Nobody on this Forum is going to make snarky comments. Maybe you'll end up liking the game. Maybe you'll subconsciously master Attack Stance and Pair Up and decide to take on the harder difficulties on your next playthrough. Who knows?

For some reason, I cannot change the difficulty to Phoenix mode, nor is the option showing up, although I certainly would switch to that, although many, many players bash on those who do. And about Attack Stance and Pair Up, I find those useless in this game. It's completely inferior to Awakening. Cohorts cannot use offensive skills, cannot do follow-up attacks, etc. And... the line about snarky comments, oh boy...

https://forums.serenesforest.net/topic/98391-close-this-guide/#comment-6032295

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

33 minutes ago, A.G. Zhark said:

And about Attack Stance and Pair Up, I find those useless in this game. It's completely inferior to Awakening. Cohorts cannot use offensive skills, cannot do follow-up attacks, etc.

Yes, it´s an attempt at utilizing, but reining in Awakenings Pair-Up mechanic, which may well be the most broken shit in Fire Emblem, right after Lena with a Warp staff. You use Defense Stance (Pair-up) with your units if you wanna lure in enemies, as it prevents eneemy Attack Stance Follow Ups, and you use Attack Stance (adjacent to each other) if you wanna kills someone.

1 hour ago, A.G. Zhark said:

I would explain more about the maps in Conquest but I have not gotten that far for obvious reasons... and elaboration would not be best considering that this is the Fire Emblem community I'm associating with, not everyone is the nicest when it comes to casual gaming. Not to mention that I do not have an elaboration. The maps are just complicated and gimmicky.

On 5/12/2024 at 8:57 AM, A.G. Zhark said:

Lied about beating Awakening on Hard/Casual as to soften the blow of my rant. Changed it to beating the Japanese version of Blazing Blade- which I did actually do, and which is actually a challenge.

Why interact with a community if you´re so afraid of it.

 

Fates but especially Conquest isn´t a game where you can stat check everything and be good, unlike Awakening, paricularly if the only means of increasing stats you find is pair-up... unlike most FE games pre Fates. 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

54 minutes ago, Imuabicus der Fertige said:

Yes, it´s an attempt at utilizing, but reining in Awakenings Pair-Up mechanic, which may well be the most broken shit in Fire Emblem, right after Lena with a Warp staff.

Well anyone can use the Warp staff. Lena having the unique ability to Hammerne the warp staff 12 times, I could agree with you there. The 21 Warps were enough without that ability.

 

1 hour ago, A.G. Zhark said:

And... the line about snarky comments, oh boy...

https://forums.serenesforest.net/topic/98391-close-this-guide/#comment-6032295

oh come oooon you made a players' guide and got huffy when people scrutinized it. You gotta let it go. I literally did not know this was you until you posted this link. Just accept the fact that people play these games and have opinions on strategy formed by their experience. By sharing that experience we all get better or at least more informed on the games.

[Cdijk16]

4 hours ago, A.G. Zhark said:

I played it on Normal several times, and Hard once, but that one time was about three years ago. Binding Blade is usually ranked as difficult due to unit stats, poor RNG, etc., and not actually due to challenging design compared to Conquest, so I think I see what you mean.

I think that the reason FE6 gets more criticism is because it has things like ambush spawns, fog of war and bad hit rates on certain enemy types. Conquest, despite being a pretty hard FE game, doesn't have any of those things and is overall very "fair" in its difficulty. In my experience, with some exceptions, when a unit gets killed in Conquest it's because you made a mistake. In comparison, units dying to ambush spawns in FE6 feels very unfair and draws a lot more criticism for that reason.

For the record, I don't think FE6's problems are that bad, I think they're somewhat overblown and FE6 is in fact one of my favorite games.

3 hours ago, A.G. Zhark said:

For some reason, I cannot change the difficulty to Phoenix mode, nor is the option showing up, although I certainly would switch to that, although many, many players bash on those who do. And about Attack Stance and Pair Up, I find those useless in this game. It's completely inferior to Awakening. Cohorts cannot use offensive skills, cannot do follow-up attacks, etc. And... the line about snarky comments, oh boy...

https://forums.serenesforest.net/topic/98391-close-this-guide/#comment-6032295

The comments in that thread were not intended as personal attacks or insults, the people in that thread were trying to point out genuine problems with your advice and give what they considered better advice.

 

4 hours ago, A.G. Zhark said:

Yes. One reason I did not struggle in Binding Blade is because you are actually given an opportunity to train your units. Fates has these slow "challenge" maps, the "invasion" maps are more for endgame content, and the Arena can't be constantly used and you can't choose what units can enter. 

I played Birthright and Conquest on Normal/Casual. And what I mean is, that the maps just aren't that great. I would explain more about the maps in Conquest but I have not gotten that far for obvious reasons... and elaboration would not be best considering that this is the Fire Emblem community I'm associating with, not everyone is the nicest when it comes to casual gaming. Not to mention that I do not have an elaboration. The maps are just complicated and gimmicky. Not because of the dragon veins, but other things. The Birthright map where you meet Camilla, Arthur and Effie has way too many narrow corridors. The map where you fight the Daimo and have to "Sing" to Takumi is also bad. The traps just get in my way, and you HAVE to fight them up close and suffer the traps being sprung. Not to mention that Azura has not enough movement to reach Takumi until the Fates-inferior AI decides to have him snipe Azura. A similar thing happened when fighting Robin in the Hero Battle. Corrin and Kaze paired up got as close as possible to the Great Knight yet it didn't budge until Felicia and Azura stepped in the far edge of it's movement range

The only flying units I could have possibly had was Camilla and Beruka, and only Camilla was strong enough to take down all the Sky Knights in one turn. And of course I know this is a defense map, but few of these kinds of maps in the Fire Emblem series can be cut short if you defeat the boss.

1. If you give Beruka a Steel Axe + Strength Tonic she will be able to 1HKO the Sky Knights, making your life a lot easier. If you ever come back to this game, I reccomend doing this.

2. CQ Chapter 10 doesn't end early if you defeat Takumi.

Edited May 15 by Cdijk16

[Shadow Mir]

9 hours ago, A.G. Zhark said:

Yes. One reason I did not struggle in Binding Blade is because you are actually given an opportunity to train your units. Fates has these slow "challenge" maps, the "invasion" maps are more for endgame content, and the Arena can't be constantly used and you can't choose what units can enter. 

Honestly, "mild" isn't one of the words I would use to describe Binding Blade difficulty wise. In fact, Binding Blade is the absolute bottom of the barrel map design wise and unit balance wise imho. Also, the arena is very risky.

8 hours ago, A.G. Zhark said:

And about Attack Stance and Pair Up, I find those useless in this game. It's completely inferior to Awakening. Cohorts cannot use offensive skills, cannot do follow-up attacks, etc.

They aren't useless. Like was said earlier, they changed pair up to make it more balanced compared to Awakening. Since you played Blazing Blade... remember the Luna spell? Well, it got nerfed in Sacred Stones.

9 hours ago, A.G. Zhark said:

And of course I know this is a defense map, but few of these kinds of maps in the Fire Emblem series can be cut short if you defeat the boss.

Unhappy Reunion isn't one of those, though, so don't feel obligated to pursue Takumi.

[A.G. Zhark]

This one is going downhill after reading the recent replies. I wish I could close it. I don't want/wont check any more comments here, but I will say that after glazing over... like, one good sentence in a comment made up there, that if I ever do try playing this mess again, I will focus on the defense aspect of this map, and just forget about Takumi. That will allow me to use more of my units to defend against the reinforcements. I noticed that someone else said in a comment that Defense stance is for enemy phase and Attack is for wanting to kill an enemy quicker. The rest of the comment wasn't very nice though.

But to conclude, its a shame that I'm only able to play 1/3 of a video game. I can't play Conquest for obvious reasons, and Revelations isn't accessible anymore sadly. I am currently playing Awakening on Hard, which I did lie about because I thought that if anyone talked about my experience playing Conquest, they would be less harsh about it. No, blunt is a way better word, or "snarky" as one hypocritical comment said. I am also replaying Birthright on Normal/Classic which is a bit challenging, but I find the word "challenge," more of a negative word than many, many other gamers. Oh, I do have a question about when in the story I should promote my units. Now that I think about it, Birthright isn't that great of a game either. Xander ended up killing Takumi and wasting all of my time taking out every enemy unit aside from Laslow, Perry and Garon. Back to the point, if I ever finish Awakening on Hard/Casual, then maybe I will talk about that. You know, if the mods don't go on a power-trip for the fourth time and kill me off.

Edited May 17 by A.G. Zhark
I added a question where I wanted to know what is the best time to promote my units in the story.

[A.G. Zhark]

2 hours ago, A.G. Zhark said:

Now that I think about it, Birthright isn't that great of a game either. Xander ended up killing Takumi and wasting all of my time taking out every enemy unit aside from Laslow, Perry and Garon.

I ended up resetting the game since I didn't want to play the rest of Birthright without Takumi and went to check if I made a Battle Save. I didn't, but decided to delete the two that I already had seeing as they were old. Since I was somehow still in the "delete" menu, I selected the chapter I just played and accidentally deleted it. There goes days worth of progress, and an S-rank support with Kaze and Felicia. I specifically focused on using him JUST so he would be at the right EXP and support levels so he wouldn't die in that one cutscene. I have never been more disappointed with a video game in an extremely long time. I've never been screwed over by any other video game series except for Fire Emblem. To the rapidly rising difficulty in Mystery, Genealogy of the Holy War, and Thracia 776, to the painfully strict support system in Three Houses, no video game series has done this to me, and seeing how this is a forum website with vibes similar to Reddit, AND a Fire Emblem forum at that, you already know I am going to get shat on for saying anything even a bit negative. But, hey, I still have my first Birthright save from 2022, and another Birthright save I made a few days ago where I'm playing the game in Hard/Casual (I'll probably regret that).

Maybe I'll play that, and finish my Awakening Hard/Casual run and see what I can pick apart there.

Edited May 17 by A.G. Zhark

[Shadow Mir]

4 hours ago, A.G. Zhark said:

Xander ended up killing Takumi and wasting all of my time taking out every enemy unit aside from Laslow, Perry and Garon.

There is a way to finish that map easily. Fly Corrin to the exit.

[Parrhesia]

The one person on a forum in 2024 who wishes for less activity, Christ.