(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins!

[Refa]

Just now, Makaze said:

I have never been more offended by a mafia game

Looks like my tilt game is online.

2 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Yeah I don't get this either (Refa's post)

It's how you're reading people, not really your reads themselves.

3 minutes ago, Bluedoom said:

So mafia are incentivized to post more/bigger without saying much, and I think the post where Prims talks about his Makaze read fits the bill for that. Only reason I'm not voting him here is because I do agree that SK hunting is sketchy, so its not like he didn't have a point. But I think devoting a paragraph on why what someone did is sus only to arrive at the conclusion that its actually NAI feels off to me.

And in my defence I read the thread while on phone so posts look a lot bigger to me.

Ooooh, I see what you're saying. It's not that his reasoning is bad, but the conclusion from the reasoning doesn't seem like what he'd land on. Sure, I can buy that.

2 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

On Refa, I see him posting a lot but I can't actually remember anything he's said, which means he's not being memorable enough (how ironic). Marth doesn't impress me very much, I feel like his posts feel kinda safe. Weapons doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, and if he answered my last question towards him I didn't see it. Of the currently active players, I guess I'd feel the worst about these three.

Mr. Stark, I don't feel so good...

What makes Marth's posts safe to you (compared to people you're townleaning)?

6 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Since BBM is away

##Vote: @Bluedoom

Refa is right there and you're even interacting with him, but you choose not to pursue him for his "questions without conclusion"? You could ask him where he wants to go with them and yet you just aren't.

As I said before, Bluedoom's post feels like a bunch of contradictory or vague stances on people, meta reads that could go either way as town or mafia (scum are also aggressive/probing people), and he leaves a vote on Refa and doesn't really bother to pursue the reason he finds Refa scummy even while interacting with him about other things (mostly justifying his reads). As he said, seems like too many words, like you want to show you have formed opinions & are doing something while... not really.

His initial vote didn't ping me TBH, but I'm curious where it progresses from here (actually, his response to you in general). I think what's bothering me most here is that his post reads like Refa > BBM > Prims but his reasoning reads like Refa > Prims > BBM which is uhhhhh...I like his Prims reasoning though which is where I'm conflicted.

@Bluedoom Above, why was this your voting priority?

6 minutes ago, Shinori said:

Like what have I actually done that has probable scum-intent?

Even if you think I'm doing nothing particularly why does that make me scum?  And if you think I'm doing nothing, out of curiosity how do those of you that are scum-reading me feel about my very brief 1-2 post interaction with weapons?

I can't speak for other people, but for me it's been "I think I'd rather shoot this guy than someone I know nothing about" which comes from not having a positive feeling on you.

[Rapier]

Just now, Bluedoom said:

I don't need to question Refa if I think he's just having a background presence, like what am I supposed to say, "Hey yeah dude I noticed that you didn't go anywhere with your reads, explain" isn't getting me anywhere, just vote the guy and make him come up with stuff when there's a wagon on him. Do you disagree with my read on him?

I prefaced that in my first post saying that I wasn't going to have concrete reads because of how it was easy to argue a lot of behaviour patterns both ways, like I acknowledge that I've got reads that look contradictory but what do you expect in early D1? There's a reason I haven't voted any of those in favour of a Refa/BBM vote.

I don't disagree with your read on him, just that... yeah, you should be asking him to explain? imo it seems way more productive to probe the guy you're voting for rather than vote him and do something else, or "make him come up with stuff when there's a wagon on him". How does this not get you anywhere? It's an opportunity to solidify your read, for better or for worse, and early D1 necessitates those interactions since we have so little to work with.

I agree with the last part, it's hard to get concrete reads on people right on early D1 and it makes sense to read some reactions going both ways. I could just have been grasping at straws due to lack of D1 content solidity. But I still find your lack of pursuit on Refa strange for the aforementioned reasons.

[Shinori]

9 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Prims?

Prims is not out of my PoE or even a town read

What made you choose those 3?

Absolutely nothing.  Just the two people you stated as town core and the first name that popped in my head.

I almost said yourself but was like "That's pointless, pointless starts with P, lets go prims"

[Rapier]

guys what does PoE mean I thought it was Path of Exile and now I'm confused since it's now obvious that's not what it means

[Shinori]

8 minutes ago, Makaze said:

@Shinori Feels like you're dodging me by turning it around on me

Apparently this post didn't load before I just sent that post.

But to answer your question, no idea. I'd have to recheck the people that have posted against me.  I thought prims was fine, seemed like just a reaching RVS vote.  Everything afterthat was weird because so many people seemed to jump to talk about me or comment on me.

Which could mean I'm town and there is scum intent behind the weird posts talking about me, or I'm scum and everyone is mind melding perfectly to catch me day 1!

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

10 minutes ago, Makaze said:

Can you explain what "doable" means to you?

(and @Rapier) I feel like town players tend to do a lot of things that "leak towniness" that it would just take a lot of effort for scum to pull off. Looking back at Boron I'm not picking up on any of that. She came out of the gate with some good pressure questions but as the game exited rvs she hasn't kept that up and has been pretty noncommital about her reads. I feel like as town it would be more likely that she would keep up the pressure especially since she has shown herself to be an active participant. Granted mafia sucks and it does look like she legitimately missed my response to her question, but this is the best that I have so far.

Why are you townreading her again?

[Rapier]

I have no idea what is Shinori's game since 90% of his posts were jokes or half-jokes, and I honestly don't like how focused on defense he is right now (or has been for the past three pages), but I know I'm barking at everyone like a rabid dog and I feel confused (so far I think my reads on Makaze and Weapons are the weakest on scum thought but still the best I have for early D1, so I just have them on the corner of my mind; I have no opinions on BBM despite him posting, I voted him so I could get more content because despite posting he hasn't done anything; and so far I'm most comfortable with voting Marth as it is).

Might not be best to make decisions at midnight, I guess.

[Makaze]

1 minute ago, Shinori said:

Apparently this post didn't load before I just sent that post.

But to answer your question, no idea. I'd have to recheck the people that have posted against me.  I thought prims was fine, seemed like just a reaching RVS vote.  Everything afterthat was weird because so many people seemed to jump to talk about me or comment on me.

Which could mean I'm town and there is scum intent behind the weird posts talking about me, or I'm scum and everyone is mind melding perfectly to catch me day 1!

That you would call something interesting but not even have a list of the interesting things is more interesting than the things that pinged you. Are you planning to follow up and form opinions about those interesting things? If so, when?

Just now, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

(and @Rapier) I feel like town players tend to do a lot of things that "leak towniness" that it would just take a lot of effort for scum to pull off. Looking back at Boron I'm not picking up on any of that. She came out of the gate with some good pressure questions but as the game exited rvs she hasn't kept that up and has been pretty noncommital about her reads. I feel like as town it would be more likely that she would keep up the pressure especially since she has shown herself to be an active participant. Granted mafia sucks and it does look like she legitimately missed my response to her question, but this is the best that I have so far.

Why are you townreading her again?

I got a pretty strong town ping from her early on.

I am most likely to be pocketed by someone who gets an easy town read from me and dips after I shield them, so I'm open to changing, but that would require them to stop playing. I'll need some negative pings to offset the good ones.

Why is her nothing-but-positioning more doable than BBM's, for instance?

[Rapier]

Just now, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

(and @Rapier) I feel like town players tend to do a lot of things that "leak towniness" that it would just take a lot of effort for scum to pull off. Looking back at Boron I'm not picking up on any of that. She came out of the gate with some good pressure questions but as the game exited rvs she hasn't kept that up and has been pretty noncommital about her reads. I feel like as town it would be more likely that she would keep up the pressure especially since she has shown herself to be an active participant. Granted mafia sucks and it does look like she legitimately missed my response to her question, but this is the best that I have so far.

Why are you townreading her again?

I see where you're getting at. I excuse Boron because she did well on RVS (good reasoning when pressing people, and good presence) and we really don't pursue people that much outside RVS for RVS reasons, and she left an hour ago or so. Can't say much until I see more from her.

[Shinori]

@RapierI gotta ask what world am I focused on defense? The reads against me have zero power and I'm not getting lynched over these reasonings.  I just find the weird super focus on me in the early 3-4 pages so interesting.

@MakazeMaybe, I might, eventually, sometime, probably.  I can think something is interesting without diving into it, gives me something to chew on when you respond in a manner like this just because of it.

[Refa]

2 minutes ago, Rapier said:

guys what does PoE mean I thought it was Path of Exile and now I'm confused since it's now obvious that's not what it means

Process of Elimination.

2 minutes ago, Rapier said:

I have no idea what is Shinori's game since 90% of his posts were jokes or half-jokes, and I honestly don't like how focused on defense he is right now (or has been for the past three pages), but I know I'm barking at everyone like a rabid dog and I feel confused (so far I think my reads on Makaze and Weapons are the weakest on scum thought but still the best I have for early D1, so I just have them on the corner of my mind; I have no opinions on BBM despite him posting, I voted him so I could get more content because despite posting he hasn't done anything; and so far I'm most comfortable with voting Marth as it is).

Might not be best to make decisions at midnight, I guess.

I don't mind him being defensive, but one thing confused me here.

@Shinori You mentioned a super focus on you. I don't remember seeing that from my read on the thread, where are you getting that from?

2 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

(and @Rapier) I feel like town players tend to do a lot of things that "leak towniness" that it would just take a lot of effort for scum to pull off. Looking back at Boron I'm not picking up on any of that. She came out of the gate with some good pressure questions but as the game exited rvs she hasn't kept that up and has been pretty noncommital about her reads. I feel like as town it would be more likely that she would keep up the pressure especially since she has shown herself to be an active participant. Granted mafia sucks and it does look like she legitimately missed my response to her question, but this is the best that I have so far.

Why are you townreading her again?

I'd sheep this.

##Unvote

##Vote: @Sunwoo

I feel like I'm wasting my time rereading this thread when half of the players have basically never posted...

[Shinori]

6 minutes ago, Refa said:

You mentioned a super focus on you. I don't remember seeing that from my read on the thread, where are you getting that from?

Possibly just noticing my name being said frequently by a few specific people and my mind blew it up more than I remember.  Prims mentioned me, makaze mentioned me, weapons, boron, rapier and bluedoom i think also all mentioned me.  This is completely off the top of my head and I could be wrong.

It's not a focus like people are pushing me, because that's not what's happening.  I just find it interesting that people were like seemingly striving to post a read on me.  Like Makaze(?) I think basically put my name in a list of 3 people to kill or something which just seems super weird this early in the game and I don't like that.

[Bluedoom]

@Rapier I'm personally a vote first axe questions later guy

@Refa Oh I get it now, thing is I'm conflicted on Prims too because it kinda feels bad if I'm wrong and he was just posting in a stream of conscience style, and I find it hard to justify him over bbm in that sense because...its kinda like in EiMM where you want to shoot people who talked to you less because you have less of an idea of where they're at? Similar point here. Reason I'm voting you over BBM is that you're active in the thread right now so its easier to gauge reactions.

 

As for how does it change, well what changed is that Boron is  sus because  her last post where she says both of us are sus feels very...empty? Gonna come up with another post on that. I guess on that note can you post a reads list of where your head is at atm?

[Rapier]

Just now, Shinori said:

@RapierI gotta ask what world am I focused on defense? The reads against me have zero power and I'm not getting lynched over these reasonings.  I just find the weird super focus on me in the early 3-4 pages so interesting.

The majority of your posts are either jokes or you defending yourself (without probing others, just focusing around justifying yourself and (rightfully) questioning Makaze and Refa's reasoning).

Like, I don't agree with Refa's thinking that picking someone you know for lynching vs someone you don't know is inherently scummy, and I'd also prefer lynching someone who has acted and interacted with others so we could get better reads on the game, but so far your posts feel like just joking around (which is ok, RVS) and defending yourself for three pages straight for something two people have been questioning (which seems excessive and overly protective to me, something that pings me more as scum).

Anyways, off to rest. So far, my reads are (from scum to town)

Bluedoom, Shinori: Leaning more toward scum.

Makaze, Weapons: Leaning slightly toward scum. Weapons seems to be leaning slightly more towards town rn because after interacting with him, I'm a bit doubtful if he had scum intent.

Refa: Honestly hasn't been that memorable to me - RVS phase was ok, I think?, and I don't agree with some of the reasonings used for why people are scum (I disagree with his stance on Shinori, as I said before). Neutral but sliding very slowly to scum territory, I guess.

BBM: Wish you were here

Prims, Sunwoo: Decent contributions on RVS phase. Prims seems more town since his contributions went past RVS.

Only thing I'm certain of is that Fire Emblem Fan is innocent.

[Shinori]

Not that my name specifically was put in there, but that the "Here's a list of 3 people who do you kill" was brought up like sub page 5.

[Shinori]

3 minutes ago, Rapier said:

The majority of your posts are either jokes or you defending yourself (without probing others, just focusing around justifying yourself and (rightfully) questioning Makaze and Refa's reasoning).

There's nothing to defend myself against, there's no case against me.  Stating I felt people posting reads on me is interesting isn't a defense. but uh:

"Rightfully" questioning makaze and refa reasonings

3 minutes ago, Rapier said:

Bluedoom, Shinori: Leaning more toward scum.

Leaning scum

How can I rightfully be questioning someone if I'm scum? Because anything scum would do would be to more throw off a case or throw off town and probably wouldn't be considered 'right'

[Rapier]

10 minutes ago, Refa said:

I don't mind him being defensive, but one thing confused me here.

I don't mind someone being defensive when they're being accused by many people for many pages (Shinori has been by two people). My biggest issue is how those two things I mentioned (defending himself and joking) were all we got, despite him being the second or third highest poster in the thread.

[Makaze]

After rereading Sunwoo's ISO, I'm seeing where you guys are coming from. I don't see anything damning, but I do see stuff that could be considered "helpful" and "being present" without actually solving the game.

@Sunwoo I'd like to see your town reads if nothing else the next time you're reading

[Refa]

Just now, Shinori said:

Possibly just noticing my name being said frequently by a few specific people and my mind blew it up more than I remember.  Prims mentioned me, makaze mentioned me, weapons, boron, rapier and bluedoom i think also all mentioned me.  This is completely off the top of my head and I could be wrong.

It's not a focus like people are pushing me, because that's not what's happening.  I just find it interesting that people were like seemingly striving to post a read on me.  Like Makaze(?) I think basically put my name in a list of 3 people to kill or something which just seems super weird this early in the game and I don't like that.

I'm too lazy to reread so I'll trust you on those names LMAO.

Are you reading any scum intent from those people regarding these mentions?

1 minute ago, Bluedoom said:

@Rapier I'm personally a vote first axe questions later guy

@Refa Oh I get it now, thing is I'm conflicted on Prims too because it kinda feels bad if I'm wrong and he was just posting in a stream of conscience style, and I find it hard to justify him over bbm in that sense because...its kinda like in EiMM where you want to shoot people who talked to you less because you have less of an idea of where they're at? Similar point here. Reason I'm voting you over BBM is that you're active in the thread right now so its easier to gauge reactions.

As for how does it change, well what changed is that Boron is  sus because  her last post where she says both of us are sus feels very...empty? Gonna come up with another post on that. I guess on that note can you post a reads list of where your head is at atm?

I think if you voted BBM over me, you'd be obvious scum. It's more the Prims position that confuses me.

I'm townreading Rapier and Weapons. Rapier mostly because he feels like the only person whose reads progress instead of like, teleport LMAO. I like where Weapons' head is at and I feel comfortable voting with him.

Makaze I'm okay on. I think his explanations like two pages ago were good, but I uh...didn't have another good person to vote at the time heheh.

Rapier's reasoning on Shinori is fine, but for me I dunno. There's nothing I'm getting scum intent from.

Feeling worse about Prims because of your reasoning.

You I'm still iffy on. I get your reasoning on Prims priority, but your reads hmmm...it's okay to not be sure but it feels like you're purposefully avoiding taking a stance and having BBM as your second most still doesn't compute to me. The weird thing is, I don't think you make sense as scum with Boron from your interactions so I feel like I'm just wrong about one of these two reads...

2 minutes ago, Rapier said:

The majority of your posts are either jokes or you defending yourself (without probing others, just focusing around justifying yourself and (rightfully) questioning Makaze and Refa's reasoning).

Like, I don't agree with Refa's thinking that picking someone you know for lynching vs someone you don't know is inherently scummy, and I'd also prefer lynching someone who has acted and interacted with others so we could get better reads on the game, but so far your posts feel like just joking around (which is ok, RVS) and defending yourself for three pages straight for something two people have been questioning (which seems excessive and overly protective to me, something that pings me more as scum).

Wait, I'm confused. When was this my reasoning?

 

[Makaze]

I keep getting weird feelings about the way Rapier is posting, but I think it's just a Rapier thing, because I've reacted this way in every game. Going to ignore that their posting style is weirding me and focus on the reasoning.

[Bluedoom]

50 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

I'm gonna step away from my computer for about an hour or so, my eyes are getting really tired staring at the screen. Before I go, some thoughts:

Prims and Rapier are town-leaning for me. It's not a strong town read, but I feel like their posts have intent at least and are trying to get something out of it

No real objections to Shinori's play, but I'm not getting a town lean feeling from him so I'm reluctant to say I'm reading him as town. (That said, I couldn't tell you anything that makes him feel like scum either. Ugh ...) Makaze feels like Makaze, which means that some of his actions feel scummy (as mentioned earlier) but I also can't think of how it actually benefits him as scum.

BBM and Snike don't really exist, so I really have no thoughts on them. I kinda forgot they'd posted to begin with.

On Refa, I see him posting a lot but I can't actually remember anything he's said, which means he's not being memorable enough (how ironic). Marth doesn't impress me very much, I feel like his posts feel kinda safe. Weapons doesn't really make a lot of sense to me, and if he answered my last question towards him I didn't see it. Of the currently active players, I guess I'd feel the worst about these three.

so first, Unvote ##Vote: @Sunwoo


What about prims is town leaning for you, and do you disagree with my take on his read on Makaze? if so, why?
As of this post I was still voting Refa. Let me outline the problems I have with this:
a)I was voting refa for very similar reasons to  what you're outlining in this post. What about that is safe, or are you going to say that your own reads are safe?
b)Not hard to point out but, whatever shinori has done has been NAI ya. I think the points on Makaze/Shinori/BBM/Snike are fakeable ya.  What specific things has Makaze done that make you think that he wouldn't benefit from them as scum?

c)The last paragraph in your post makes me think that you have enough of a gut feeling to actually vote any of the 3 mentioned. Now from what I remember of you I think you like feeling more concrete about your reads before your vote. But my issue isn't so much that the vote isn't dropped and more that...this feels like fence sitting here?

 

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Down to sit on this game state while the rest of the players join in, but really quickly, leaning town on Refa, BBM has escaped my attention, null on Marth, and feel like Shinori's dicking around cause he knows he can get away with it

[Sunwoo]

I'm still feeling kinda crappy, but I did say I'd be back in about "an hour or so"

I think someone asked me why I thought Marth's post was safe, and it came off as safe to me partly because I wasn't convinced that his two vote options (BBM and Refa) were because he actually thought they were scummy. Also, the "coin flip" section used a lot of words to say Prims and Shinori were basically null.

As for Weapons' argument that I haven't been "keeping up the pressure" since RVS, I start running out of new things to say when the thread is basically the same couple of people arguing with one another and nobody's arguments at the time were changing my mind on stuff. Also, I didn't even notice that Weapons had responded to my question because the thread was moving too fast and SF's post loading system is kinda clunky.

##Unvote

##Vote: @Refa

My previous stance on him before I left stands, even after a quick reread of the thread. His previous reads and statements didn't really seem very committal on anyone. Also, his piggybacking off Weapons' vote on me with a simple "I'd sheep this" is pretty lame considering that he didn't have any real strong opinions on me before.

You guys are pinging me too much while I'm trying to type, so I'm gonna post this first and then answer other stuff.

[Shinori]

1 minute ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:

Down to sit on this game state while the rest of the players join in, but really quickly, leaning town on Refa, BBM has escaped my attention, null on Marth, and feel like Shinori's dicking around cause he knows he can get away with it

You know it.  Scums gonna kill me n1.  I NEED THIS.

4 minutes ago, Refa said:

I'm too lazy to reread so I'll trust you on those names LMAO.

Are you reading any scum intent from those people regarding these mentions?

Man you and me both LOL.

I am getting some kind of scummie vibes from some of the posts involved but at the moment I'm keeping my cards close to my chest because these interactions between myself and others are juicy(ex: me and rapier right now)

[Makaze]

TL;DR

I am still pretty sure about Rapier, but I'm feeling stifled by not having enough to read.

Not going to doubt my instincts just yet, but I'm willing to bet on at least these things:

Prims/Weapons are not aligned.
Rapier/Refa are not aligned.
Rapier/Shinori are not aligned.
Rapier/Sunwoo are not aligned.
Refa/Sunwoo are not aligned.
Weapons/Sunwoo are not aligned unless Sunwoo has offered themselves up as a bus teammate.
BBM is mafia.

Not much else I'm sure about but I still feel pretty good about myself all things considered.